From:	dbuehrer@******.carl.org dbuehrer@******.carl.org
Subject:	CC Martial Arts
Date:	Mon, 05 Jun 2000 11:55:13 -0600

Sommers wrote:
>Around 01:03 PM 6/5/00, dbuehrer@******.carl.org was mumbling about:
>>>But aren't there several martial arts out there that should be based off
>>>of Strength. The difference between a lightweight fighter and a Tyson
>>>'smash em til they fall down' bruiser?
>>
>>Not that I can think of. Even Mike Tyson uses good technique. He
>>rotates his hips and shoulder into his power punches. He uses
>>technique. Even Sumo wrestling uses technique. I've seen a match where
>>the lighter wrestler won because his technique was better.
>
>Yes, Tyson does apply good technique, but its based off of his strength.
>He pounds people harder than just about anyone else. Technique is what
>you're rolling to get in the good hit, but strength is what you're using
>when you connect. So it stands to reason that strength is what you would
>base your technique on.

But without that good technique, the strength isn't worth much. His damage
is based on his technique, and measured by his technique. His strength
compliments his technique. Again, I'll use my sister as an example. She
can take me apart nine ways from Sunday. Yes, if she were stronger and had
more mass, she could do it faster, but strength and mass aren't an
issue. Maybe with boxing strength is more complimentary, but the primary
measure of how much damage a punch does is from the technique used to
deliver it.

>>>How about for new styles an additional edge: default unarmed combat and
>>>determine power from Quickness instead of strength.
>>
>>IMHO damage code for an unarmed attack should be Reaction(M). Strength
>>should only be used if the attacker has a fair amount of time to apply
>>his strength. But in melee combat there just isn't enough time in an
>>attack to apply one's strength, most of the time. Look at what it takes
>>for a strong person to apply their strength. They have to set
>>themselves, grab, then lift/push/pull. Strength based attacks are
>>slow. If someone opts to use their strength for the power of an unarmed
>>attack, they should take some sort of penalty (maybe the defender gets -1
>>to their TN).
>
>Doesn't that put way too much emphasis on Reaction though? You roll it for
>how many actions you get, you use it to see how easy it is for you to
>raise your skill, and it determines how much damage you do? It that case,
>you're going to have elves that are absolutely with Reaction 7, strength 3
>toppling trolls with Reaction 3 and Strength 12!

Yes. I don't have a problem with that. Maybe the formula for determine
the power of unarmed combat should be (Reaction + Strength/2)/2 (round
down), or something similar. The aforementioned elf would have a power of
8, the troll a 9. The elf is much more accurate and can perform
better. The troll has an edge, but even his overwhelming strength is a
minor factor, which it should be.

>Yes the elf should be able to get in some good hits, but that doesn't make
>much sense. The troll might have a harder time trying to hit the elf as he
>dances away (high combat pool) but once he gets a good shot in it should
>be all over (high strength).

Where and how you hit determines how hard you hit. Your strength has
little to do with it.

This is hard to convey to someone who hasn't had martial arts
experience. Before I took Hapkido I had a hard time understanding it
myself. After I failed to break a board with a front kick it became
painfully clear :) And I'm not try to be condescending.

I front snap kicked a half inch thick piece of dry pine. I'm 6'2", 200
pounds. You'd think the board wouldn't stand a chance. That damn board
didn't budge :) It didn't budge because I only kicked it with my foot. I
didn't kick it with my body like I was supposed to. After instruction from
the black belt in charge, I tried it again. The second time I put my hip
into it (kind of like thrusting your pelvis while kicking forward). It was
like kicking through styrofoam, the board broke that easily.

Through out my experience with Hapkido I've seen many "big" students fail
to break boards when they didn't use good technique. I've seen many small
students go through boards like hot knives through butter, because they
used good technique.

Granted, Mike Tyson's strength gives him an edge, but it's not the source
of his power. His strength is icing on the cake.

And that's the way it should be in any roleplaying system, IMHO.

To Life,
-Graht
http://www.users.uswest.net/~abaker3
--
"Footprints on the sands of time are not made by sitting down."