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Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: "Jason Carter, Nightstalker" <CARTER@***.EDU>
Subject: More Combat Rules
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 93 22:53:31 CET
You among various different people (can't remember who) have been clamering
for new vehicle combat rules. I apperciate your enthusiasm, but can't agree
with you on the need for them. I have several different reasons for that.
First of all I see the present rules to be just fine. All vehicle battles are
chases. The present system reflects a chase without burdening the GM with such
things as extenisve road maps and determining the location and number of
uninvolved vehicles. What you say your looking for is basically a Car Wars-like
combat system, but Car Wars is almost always isolated to a general area (arena)
with a fixed number of participents and no non-combatents. This is no car
The second reason is the Astral/Matrix Problem. Everybody complains about how
deckers and Mages have their own special worlds that cause the rest of the group
to take a nap while their taking car of business. The last thing we really need
is yet another world, reverved for riggers, that takes a ton of time. The
beauty of the present system is the condensing of all the complicated sections
of a chase into a few simple die rolls. If you've every played Car Wars you
know it takes hours to run a simple 6 car battle. We don't need that in
So tell me what you all think. Do we really need a more complicated vehicle
combat system?

See Ya in Shadows,
Jason J Carter
The Nightstalker
Message no. 2
From: Todd Montgomery <tmont@****.WVU.WVNET.EDU>
Subject: More Combat Rules?
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 93 23:27:01 CET

I am not really advocating a new combat system for riggers. I am just
advocating combining car actions into the standard combat actions of
other people. Sort of like DMZ did with motorcycles. This system
would, I think make chases more interesting and MIGHT make them seem
more alive. I don't think that this system would make combat be
stretched out or elongated if it was done correctly. Instead of the
standard tests before initiative the rigger, or driver, would declare
car actions. I haven't thought out the specifics yet, but I feel this
is at least how vehicle combat should have done at the start. The
present system of tests works fine. I agree. But I have played a
rigger before and when it came to car chases I wanted to do MORE. Not
just evade, advance, and etc. I could fire weapons and contribute to
the firefight but I wanted to really have a sense of being in control
and have the ability to decide how to evade. I don't really see how
adding more action (free, simple, and complex) choices to combat would
make the system drag. The driver would just spend actions on the
vehicle. This would effect tests to evade, pursue, etc.

Did this make any sense?

I will try to explain more tonight. Maybe think it through and present
some more specific things.

-- Quiktek

"It is not man who is the enemy of the human species. It is the
irrational; it is the spiritual when it is divorced from the material;
from the lesson in one beating heart or one bleeding vein."
- Maharet
"The Queen of the Damned" - Anne Rice
Message no. 3
From: "P. Steele" <P.C.Steele@*********.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: More Combat Rules
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 93 18:37:56 GMT

Just finished reading your message where you ask the question: Do we really
need new car rules ?

I would say yes and no on that point. The current rules as per RBB give a basic
frame work to stage chases etc. This is fine if all you want to do is just stage
a basic chase. But what about the rigger whose life is driving, designing
and customizing these things. Surely they ought to have their fun as well.

You mention that mages and deckers have their own little worlds and the rest
of the group takes a nap while this is happeneing. This is true but it doesn't
have to be true with riggeres as they are acting in the real world and the
other players in the group can directly interact with a riggers movements, but
only if we have a good system.

Ie : Rigger in a chase, he is busy executing turns and skids trying to dodge
the fire of a thrill gang that has him pinned down in an area of the barrens.
The players aboard can take normal reaction rolls and proceed with combat from
the firing ports. This is an example of what is very difficult to with the
current rules.

-The Powerhouse
Phillip Steele


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