Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: ArkAngel <DUNN@******.BITNET>
Subject: Not simplifying things...
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 93 07:53:00 EST
>From: R Andrew Hayden <rahayden@*****.WEEG.UIOWA.EDU>
>But you forget, a Yugo not only has a rubber band engine, but the ZR1 has
>accessories like turbo, fuel-injection, and whatever else detroit decides
>to put into it.
>
>What we would be doing is saying: a basic, unaccessorized car is geared
>towards X speed, and adding accessories can dramatically change that
>speed.
Nice idea, but totally inaccurate,still. For starters, you acknowledge
that a Yugo has a 'rubber band engine.' Some cars aren't designed towards
going speed X, and others are designed to go alot faster, perhaps my example
was a bit extreme, but it's still appropriate. Oa more basic track, say you go
to your Ford dealer today, and want to buy a Ford Escort. (probably a bad
idea, but that's beside the point.)
The first thing you choose if you're ordering a car is what SIZE engine
they'll put into it. 1.6, 1.9,2.1,etc... These different size engines are
going to radically effect everything about the car, which is precisely what our
original set of equations are designed for.
However, by saying that this same care with 4+ different engines in it
has the exact same performance record with all of these is nothing less than
absurd...
As to the complexity of these equations, I'm sorry if you can't handle
them, but when I was in 7th grade, I know I could use a calculator and do basic
multiplication without it... the stuff we're doing only involves basic
arithmetic... Maybe if we were doing complex calculus, I could see the point,
but this is just arithmetic!

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=Dunn@******.jcu.edu-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
First law of RPG adventure writing:"In any given scenario, there are 4
possible player actions, the three reasonable ones the GM expects, and the one
the players ultimately divise and use."
>>>>>[ArkAngel.Logout]>>>>>
Message no. 2
From: R Andrew Hayden <rahayden@*****.WEEG.UIOWA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Not simplifying things...
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 93 19:14:08 CET
On Wed, 10 Mar 1993, ArkAngel wrote:

>
> The first thing you choose if you're ordering a car is what SIZE
engine
> they'll put into it. 1.6, 1.9,2.1,etc... These different size engines are
> going to radically effect everything about the car, which is precisely what
our
> original set of equations are designed for.

Please note, the size of the engine still plays a pert in performance.
But instead of cruising and redline speed being derived, power is used to
directly correlate to acceleration.

It is possible, if you wanted to apply the physics and mechanics, to get a
lawnmower engine to drive a semi. All it takes is some really liberal
transmission and you are off. Unfortunately, your acceleration would be
on the order of a few centimenters/second^2. Unfortunately, that is not
very practical.

Instead, we are saying the the CAM software disigns the cars to be geared
inherently to a certain speed for cruising and redline, and then by adding
accessories, you can change that.

> However, by saying that this same care with 4+ different engines in it
> has the exact same performance record with all of these is nothing less than
> absurd...

I didn't say that. I said that power is related to acceleration, not
cruising and top speed, which is related mroe to your transmission.

> As to the complexity of these equations, I'm sorry if you can't handle
> them, but when I was in 7th grade, I know I could use a calculator and do
basic
> multiplication without it... the stuff we're doing only involves basic
> arithmetic... Maybe if we were doing complex calculus, I could see the point,
> but this is just arithmetic!

AND HALT!

Shadowrun is a role playing game. There are thousands of people
of all ages and abilities who play this game. To sit there and
assume that all of these thousands of people have the ability or the
desire to do even simple algebra is just plain wrong.

There are around 200 people on ShadowRN, and around 35 on this
list. How do you know what these people can or even WANT to do in
designing their vehicle? I know for a fact that if I picked up
these rules and saw that it would take two hours to design a
simple car and require twenty minutes of punching number to eek
every last bit of performance out of my design, I'd say "forget
it" and either use the poor rules in the RBB or some ofther vehicle
system; not because I couldn't do the math, but because _I DON'T
WANT TO_. Others may very well do the same, either because they
can't or don't want to do the math.

Any successful game system is designed to be inherently simple.
It may actually be involving game play, but the basic rules are
simple to grasp. We have to design these construction rules with
basic and utter simplicity in mind. We have to assume that all of
the users of the system are utter morons and design for that.
That is the what gives something mass-appeal and has many more
people using it.

So before you start spouting off "I could do this stuff in seventh
grade!", take a mement to realize that you are only one of many
people who will be using this system and that you cannot assume
ability of any of those other people.

You arguments regarding realism are valid and appreciated, but
this group has absolutely no place to assuming what other people
want in a system and assuming the abilities of those who are
playing. It is something fundamentally wrong.


[> Robert Hayden <] [> ____ Come out, Come out <]
[> <] [> \ /__ Wherever you are! <]
[> rahayden@*****.weeg.uiowa.edu <] [> \/ /
[> aq650@****.INS.CWRU.Edu <] [> \/

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!