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Message no. 1
From: Predator Omega <ba1764@*******.BAYNET.DE>
Subject: NERPS[Stuff]: Cyberlimb protection
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 11:37:52 +0100
This is now the thrid try without any attachments. I hope everyone is
getting this without any problems. At last.

Cyberware shilding and armour
==============================
Additional to normal hard or soft armour, cyberlimbs can be shielded
against serveral harmfull incluences or forms of damage. 3 additional
shieldings can be installed per point of Body enhancement . Soft or hard
armour do NOT count to this.

Soft Armour
-----------
See Cybertech Sourcebook, suggested maximum level is 8.

Hard Armour
-----------
See cybertech sourcebook, suggested maximum level is 8.

Electromagnetic shielding
-------------------------
The EM-shielding protect the user against all kinds of shocks. Examples
are tasers, emp-grenades, critter powers like lightning or shock-gloves
and so on. The shilding plus one-half of the normal impact armour
protect the coverd limb. Maximum level for the EM-shielding is 3.

Thermal isolation
-----------------
Thermal isolation protectes the coverd limb agaimnst extrem
temperatures, both extrem high and low temperatures. Additional to that
the thermal isolation lowers the users IR signature. Increase all TN for
IR-based awarness-test for the doubble level of the thermal isolation.
if the character is spoted, still increase all TN in ranged combat for
the simple level if thew attacker is unsing thermal vision. The full
level of the thermal isolation plus one-half of the impact armour
protect against temperatur caused damage.

Scanner shielding
-----------------
The simple level of this shielding increases all TN for detecting
cyberware in the covered limb.

SEMInatural covering
--------------------
Semibatural covering makes the cyberlimb look quite normal, but only if
the limb itself looks natural. The covering includes hairs, skin and
can't be distinquished form a normal limb by looking at it. Even on IR
it can't be recognises, because the skin includes special heating
systems.

typ level conceal cost index
availability
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
EM shielding 1-3 NA 2500 ¥/level 3 11/2
weeks
Hard armour 1-8 12 -level 25.000 ¥/level 2 14/3
weeks
Scanner shield 1-3 NA 8000 ¥/level 4 16/3
weeks
Seminatural cov. - +3 + 10% as limb as limb
Thermal iso. 1-3 NA 3500 ¥/level 2 6/1
weeks
Soft armour 1-8 12-1/2 level 10.000 ¥/level 2 12/2
weeks

Essence cost is 0 for all this stuff.

For a picture please visit my homepage
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Alley/3958/

Predator
Message no. 2
From: "Leszek Karlik, aka Mike" <trrkt@*****.ONET.PL>
Subject: Re: NERPS[Stuff]: Cyberlimb protection
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 20:28:10 +0000
On 26 Nov 97, Predator Omega disseminated foul capitalist propaganda
by writing:

> Thermal isolation
> -----------------
> Thermal isolation protectes the coverd limb agaimnst extrem
> temperatures, both extrem high and low temperatures. Additional to
> that the thermal isolation lowers the users IR signature. Increase
> all TN for IR-based awarness-test for the doubble level of the
> thermal isolation. if the character is spoted, still increase all TN
> in ranged combat for the simple level if thew attacker is unsing
> thermal vision. The full level of the thermal isolation plus
> one-half of the impact armour protect against temperatur caused
> damage.

Well, I don't think it would be harder to spot somebody just because
you can't see his leg. Look at this this way: do you increase the TN
in ranged combat for shooting at somebody without legs? Is somebody
harder to notice because he has no arms? While the signature of
somebody with four shielded cyberlimbs could confuse automated
systems (it looks like something warm, but not like human), it could
be easily seen by somebody with thermal vision ..

There's no way thermal shielding of your limbs would work as an
invisibility spell, you kno...

Besides, normal cyberware is already "cold", that is, shows as blue
areas on your thermal vision. Additional isolation would make your
limb appear totally black. That would probably make it more
noticeable, as the background is not black (almost everything has
some temperature).

I could see it the other way - thermal masking - a shielding
that keeps the temperature of your cyberlimbs at the same temperature
as your body. This way, nobody could spot your cyberlimbs on thermo,
which is pretty easy now.


Leszek Karlik, aka Mike - trrkt@*****.onet.pl; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike; FIAWOL
FL/GN Leszek/Raptor II/ISD Vanguard, (SS) (PC) (ISM) {IWATS-IIC} JH(Sith)/House Scholae
Palatinae
Are you certain you are not the Devil? - Lancelot
Yeah, sure. Don't you smell the brimstone? And my right hoof is killing me. - Corwin
Message no. 3
From: Predator Omega <ba1764@*******.BAYNET.DE>
Subject: Re: NERPS[Stuff]: Cyberlimb protection
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 22:39:10 +0100
Leszek Karlik, aka Mike schrieb:
> Well, I don't think it would be harder to spot somebody just because
> you can't see his leg. Look at this this way: do you increase the TN
> in ranged combat for shooting at somebody without legs? Is somebody
> harder to notice because he has no arms? While the signature of
> somebody with four shielded cyberlimbs could confuse automated
> systems (it looks like something warm, but not like human), it could
> be easily seen by somebody with thermal vision ..

It depends on how many cybernetical bodyparts you have. The main idea on
this is more to protect the user from extreme heat and cold in providin
an armor against this. This concealment thing is only a sideeffect of
this.

> There's no way thermal shielding of your limbs would work as an
> invisibility spell, you kno...

Of course, but you can use ruthumenium polymere covering for this
effect. In combination with a thermal iso it is quite effective.


> Besides, normal cyberware is already "cold", that is, shows as blue
> areas on your thermal vision. Additional isolation would make your
> limb appear totally black. That would probably make it more
> noticeable, as the background is not black (almost everything has
> some temperature).

Yes and no. Cyberlimb tend, dependeing on the material used and the
color, to apadt to the temperature. E.g. a black limb will heat up in
sunlight. Metalic part on the other hand cool down very quickly in the
winter.

> I could see it the other way - thermal masking - a shielding
> that keeps the temperature of your cyberlimbs at the same temperature
> as your body. This way, nobody could spot your cyberlimbs on thermo,
> which is pretty easy now.

This is a very good idea. I'll include a system like this in my next
list.

Predator
Message no. 4
From: Pete Wilson <piatro@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: NERPS[Stuff]: Cyberlimb protection
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 21:04:19 -0600
Predator Omega responded to:

>Leszek Karlik, aka Mike schrieb:

>
>> There's no way thermal shielding of your limbs would work as an
>> invisibility spell, you kno...
>
>Of course, but you can use ruthumenium polymere covering for this
>effect. In combination with a thermal iso it is quite effective.
>
>

We are still talking about covering individual cyberlimbs right. I think
the point here is that these treatments for an individual limb would not
have an effect on the overall stealth of the character. They may make it
harder to notice that there is cyber for physical detection (astral is
altogether different).

It the character is using a ruthumenium polymere suit with thermal camo
effects it would disguise the cyberlimb as well no matter what type of
shielding is used. The only awareness test that the Thermal Shielding
should apply to is determinig if the limb is meat or metal.


On the subject of the astral effects of cyberlimbs, I am reminded of the
"FleshWeave" Cyberlimb from Chromebook #3. (Yes I know it's not FASA, but
they have some cool stuff too.) Incorporating living cloned tissue
throughout the limb would extend the aura of the character to cover the
limb instead of stopping where the "meat" stops. This not effect astral
perception of the arms true nature. The major effect would be for magical
characters who's actions are limited by "dead" cyber. The best example of
this is the use of fetishes and foci. I may be an extremely picky GM, but
if an adept attacks with his weapon focus using a cyberarm it is just a
normal attack. But the same action with a FleshWeave arm would receive
full magical bonuses.

Technically this type of cyber is a little tougher than normal. Due to the
complexity of the job the limb itself has to be at least Beta grade (if not
higher) and I would add 50% - 75% to the price of the limb. In addition,
you have to find a _very good_ chop shop to have this. Not something you
are going to see everywhere.


Piatro
Message no. 5
From: David Mezerette <mezeretted@*****.U-NANCY.FR>
Subject: Re: NERPS[Stuff]: Cyberlimb protection
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 08:48:54 +0100
At 21:04 26/11/97 -0600, you wrote:
>Predator Omega responded to:
>


>On the subject of the astral effects of cyberlimbs, I am reminded of the
>"FleshWeave" Cyberlimb from Chromebook #3. (Yes I know it's not FASA, but
>they have some cool stuff too.) Incorporating living cloned tissue
>throughout the limb would extend the aura of the character to cover the
>limb instead of stopping where the "meat" stops. This not effect astral
>perception of the arms true nature.
I disagree with that: in my opinion, the aura of a character is not just
showing whiwh part of the body is living or not; this is however prolly true
for mundane characters and -to some extent- for non-assensing magical
characters: their astral image is just a kind of reflection of their
physical body; but then, how do u astrally know wether this corpsec guard's
limb, covered by multi-layered armor, is cyber or not? both are hidden by
clothing, and the only way to differentiate both would be to go astral and
see if ur astral body can move through it...but see my opinion below

>The major effect would be for magical
>characters who's actions are limited by "dead" cyber. The best example of
>this is the use of fetishes and foci. I may be an extremely picky GM, but
>if an adept attacks with his weapon focus using a cyberarm it is just a
>normal attack. But the same action with a FleshWeave arm would receive
>full magical bonuses.
so, according to you, a character can't use cyberstuff for any magical
action? so how does a mage w/ cybereyes cast spell? i think the aura of the
character has, to some extent, integrate the cyberpart, and that's why he
payed essence. If that's not so, you should extend your rule to non-cloned
limbs and to benefits due to non-cultured bioware (and perhaps even to
cultured one), since it hasn't innate magical property in the sense it
doesn't carry the good genes
Note that nowhere in SR i have found rules for cyberpsychosis (except for
cybermancy), and to my mind it means essence represents how much cyber the
aura can cope with: you have too much cyber, the aura is not 'stable'
anymore, it losts its integrity, and you are in deep drek

i may be a litle out of topic, so excuse me for it...but i'd like to have ur
opinions about it however =)

ChYlD
mezeretted@*****.u-nancy.fr
Message no. 6
From: Predator Omega <ba1764@*******.BAYNET.DE>
Subject: Re: NERPS[Stuff]: Cyberlimb protection
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 20:02:07 +0100
Pete Wilson schrieb:
> We are still talking about covering individual cyberlimbs right. I think
> the point here is that these treatments for an individual limb would not
> have an effect on the overall stealth of the character. They may make it
> harder to notice that there is cyber for physical detection (astral is
> altogether different).
>
> It the character is using a ruthumenium polymere suit with thermal camo
> effects it would disguise the cyberlimb as well no matter what type of
> shielding is used. The only awareness test that the Thermal Shielding
> should apply to is determinig if the limb is meat or metal.

Interesting, I never thought of anyone thinking about htis thermal stuff
that long. But everyone of you is right. The first idea was that you
will be spoted by pure thermal vision because your body is warmer than
the rest of the enviroment. Or colder. it would be very easy to install
am heat-controll in the limb plus a small processor that calculates the
perfect temperature blending.
Remember the fact that RP does not change the temperature of your body,
therefore you can still be spoted on IR using it. of course you won't
every be completly invisible on IR, but depending on the numer of limbs
and the speed of heat-changing of the enviroment I would allow a
modifier on awarness-tests, perhaps even a modifier for IR-using
characters in combat. But not in close-combat.

Predator

BTW the comments are so good that I think about including them in my
home-page for other to see.
Message no. 7
From: Predator Omega <ba1764@*******.BAYNET.DE>
Subject: Re: NERPS[Stuff]: Cyberlimb protection
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 20:02:17 +0100
David Mezerette schrieb:
> I disagree with that: in my opinion, the aura of a character is not just
> showing whiwh part of the body is living or not; this is however prolly true
> for mundane characters and -to some extent- for non-assensing magical
> characters: their astral image is just a kind of reflection of their
> physical body; but then, how do u astrally know wether this corpsec guard's
> limb, covered by multi-layered armor, is cyber or not? both are hidden by
> clothing, and the only way to differentiate both would be to go astral and
> see if ur astral body can move through it...but see my opinion below
>
> >The major effect would be for magical
> >characters who's actions are limited by "dead" cyber. The best example
of
> >this is the use of fetishes and foci. I may be an extremely picky GM, but
> >if an adept attacks with his weapon focus using a cyberarm it is just a
> >normal attack. But the same action with a FleshWeave arm would receive
> >full magical bonuses.
> so, according to you, a character can't use cyberstuff for any magical
> action? so how does a mage w/ cybereyes cast spell? i think the aura of the
> character has, to some extent, integrate the cyberpart, and that's why he
> payed essence. If that's not so, you should extend your rule to non-cloned
> limbs and to benefits due to non-cultured bioware (and perhaps even to
> cultured one), since it hasn't innate magical property in the sense it
> doesn't carry the good genes
> Note that nowhere in SR i have found rules for cyberpsychosis (except for
> cybermancy), and to my mind it means essence represents how much cyber the
> aura can cope with: you have too much cyber, the aura is not 'stable'
> anymore, it losts its integrity, and you are in deep drek
>
> i may be a litle out of topic, so excuse me for it...but i'd like to have ur
> opinions about it however =)
>
> ChYlD
> mezeretted@*****.u-nancy.fr

Uh, oh seems to me that I started a fierce debate about this stuff. I
agree with David to some point. it depends mainly on the aura
interpretation you follow. in the First Edition of SR the cyberware was
easily spotable as "black spots" and they weren't part the the aura
anymore. I think this has changen in SR II but I may be wrong. As I said
it is a matter of interpretation. I tend to agree more to the things
David said.
But now for something completly different... :-)
What about including a fat bacteriea shielding in the limb. This would
hide the true aura completly. Remeber that the aura "radiates around the
body, thetrefore clothing does not stop the aura. Otherwise you wouldn't
be alble to atack someone weraring even a simple dress, because you
won't be able to see enough of the aura. But with the fat bacteria the
aura is hidden. an attack with a standart non-manipulation splell would
kill only the bacteria, but couldn't harm the living thing under them.
Thining about a full body replacement this woudl stop the attacers first
spell. Crazy idea? I use something similar in my campaing. OK now you
all hate FASA for inventing this bacteria stuff, esp. all mages and
shamans, don't you?
Tell me what you think.

Predator
Message no. 8
From: "Leszek Karlik, aka Mike" <trrkt@*****.ONET.PL>
Subject: Re: NERPS[Stuff]: Cyberlimb protection
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 22:24:09 +0000
On 27 Nov 97, Predator Omega disseminated foul capitalist propaganda
by writing:

<snip>

> :-) What about including a fat bacteriea shielding in the limb. This
> would hide the true aura completly. Remeber that the aura "radiates
> around the body, thetrefore clothing does not stop the aura.
> Otherwise you wouldn't be alble to atack someone weraring even a
> simple dress, because you won't be able to see enough of the aura.
> But with the fat bacteria the aura is hidden. an attack with a
> standart non-manipulation splell would kill only the bacteria, but
> couldn't harm the living thing under them. Thining about a full body
> replacement this woudl stop the attacers first spell. Crazy idea? I

Yep. That's the only way it would work - full body replacement. And
actually, I don't think it would work. How would you keep FAB alive?
AFAIK it's pretty sensitive... And it would be very big and bulky...
Naaahhh.

<evil idea>
What about a powered armor with FAB shielding? Now that's EVIL...
Hehehehe. I'm lucky my GM's not on the list... ;P

> use something similar in my campaing. OK now you all hate FASA for
> inventing this bacteria stuff, esp. all mages and shamans, don't
> you? Tell me what you think.

Of course we hate it! FAB sucks, sucks, sucks! Boooaaaaaaaaaahhhh!!!
<sniff, sniff>
Look, you've got me crying... Aren't you ashamed of yourself?


Leszek Karlik, aka Mike - trrkt@*****.onet.pl; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike; FIAWOL
FL/GN Leszek/Raptor II/ISD Vanguard, (SS) (PC) (ISM) {IWATS-IIC} JH(Sith)/House Scholae
Palatinae
JESUS LOVES BLACK AND WHITE (but he prefers Johnny Walker).
Message no. 9
From: Predator Omega <ba1764@*******.BAYNET.DE>
Subject: Re: NERPS[Stuff]: Cyberlimb protection
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 00:07:10 +0100
Leszek Karlik, aka Mike schrieb:
>
> On 27 Nov 97, Predator Omega disseminated foul capitalist propaganda
> by writing:
>
> <snip>
>
> > :-) What about including a fat bacteriea shielding in the limb. This
> > would hide the true aura completly. Remeber that the aura "radiates
> > around the body, thetrefore clothing does not stop the aura.
> > Otherwise you wouldn't be alble to atack someone weraring even a
> > simple dress, because you won't be able to see enough of the aura.
> > But with the fat bacteria the aura is hidden. an attack with a
> > standart non-manipulation splell would kill only the bacteria, but
> > couldn't harm the living thing under them. Thining about a full body
> > replacement this woudl stop the attacers first spell. Crazy idea? I
>
> Yep. That's the only way it would work - full body replacement. And
> actually, I don't think it would work. How would you keep FAB alive?
> AFAIK it's pretty sensitive... And it would be very big and bulky...
> Naaahhh.

Why not, imagine a troll with this, he's already hulky. I'm not a troll
by the way.

> <evil idea>
> What about a powered armor with FAB shielding? Now that's EVIL...
> Hehehehe. I'm lucky my GM's not on the list... ;P

Good idea, thanks God a player of mine isn't on this list too. It would
be the first thing for him to buy or build.

>
> > use something similar in my campaing. OK now you all hate FASA for
> > inventing this bacteria stuff, esp. all mages and shamans, don't
> > you? Tell me what you think.
>
> Of course we hate it! FAB sucks, sucks, sucks! Boooaaaaaaaaaahhhh!!!
> <sniff, sniff>
> Look, you've got me crying... Aren't you ashamed of yourself?

Oh yes, I'm soooooooooooooooo ashamed of myself. ;-)
>
Predator
Message no. 10
From: "MARTIN E. GOTTHARD" <s457033@*******.GU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: NERPS[Stuff]: Cyberlimb protection
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 10:29:36 +1000
> Interesting, I never thought of anyone thinking about htis thermal stuff
> that long. But everyone of you is right. The first idea was that you
> will be spoted by pure thermal vision because your body is warmer than
> the rest of the enviroment. Or colder. it would be very easy to install
> am heat-controll in the limb plus a small processor that calculates the
> perfect temperature blending.

The problem is that, just like an airconditioner you've got to vent that
heat (or the opposite) to somewhere. Do you really want big ugly
heating vanes on your back? Didn't think so. *grin*

Marty
Message no. 11
From: Pete Wilson <piatro@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: NERPS[Stuff]: Cyberlimb protection
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 22:36:33 -0600
ChYlD wrote:

>At 21:04 26/11/97 -0600, you wrote:
>>Predator Omega responded to:
>>
>
>
>>On the subject of the astral effects of cyberlimbs, I am reminded of the
>>"FleshWeave" Cyberlimb from.....

<clipping off all sorts of sillyness>

I seem to have gotten the SR RPG universe confused with my own idealized
theoretical SR world. I seem to have forgotten that characters pay essence
in order to incorporate the cyberlimb, extending the aura to surround it.
Obviously this topic has not come up when I have been GM'ing or I would
remember the righteous rage of my players over my unreasonable
restrictions. Let me just state for the record that I support any
magically active characters in their right (ability) to use cyberlimbs as
if they were the unaltered origonal parts.

With all of this understood, I still think the Fleshweave concept would
make the limb more essence friendly. Maybe it should be considered the
next step beyond Delta cyberware. What do you think? An _extremely_
essence friendly Cyberlimb that also just happens to bleed when it is
damaged.

It has definite possibilities.

Piatro
Message no. 12
From: David Mezerette <mezeretted@*****.U-NANCY.FR>
Subject: Re: NERPS[Stuff]: Cyberlimb protection
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 06:11:35 +0100
At 22:36 27/11/97 -0600, you wrote:
>ChYlD wrote:
>
>>At 21:04 26/11/97 -0600, you wrote:
>>>Predator Omega responded to:
>>>
>>
>>

><clipping off all sorts of sillyness>
>
>I seem to have gotten the SR RPG universe confused with my own idealized
>theoretical SR world. I seem to have forgotten that characters pay essence
>in order to incorporate the cyberlimb, extending the aura to surround it.
>Obviously this topic has not come up when I have been GM'ing or I would
>remember the righteous rage of my players over my unreasonable
>restrictions. Let me just state for the record that I support any
>magically active characters in their right (ability) to use cyberlimbs as
>if they were the unaltered origonal parts.
So do I, but my players all have already-cloned parts of them in case they'd
need it. All they hope is that the big and unfortunate accident won't happen
outta town *Oh! There's no DocWagon in this part of the world. I'm sooo
sorry *evil grin* *
>
>With all of this understood, I still think the Fleshweave concept would
>make the limb more essence friendly. Maybe it should be considered the
>next step beyond Delta cyberware. What do you think? An _extremely_
>essence friendly Cyberlimb that also just happens to bleed when it is
>damaged.

I don't think it would make the limb more essence-friendly, because i don't
see the essence cost due to the replacement of the limb itself, but to the
mental trauma and the deep brain interactions it implies; however, the
esthetic side of fleshweave is interessant, and it could negate some social
interactions mali induced by cyberware: one always feels more comfortable to
speak with someone who _looks_ human than with the
all-chromed-robocop-style-shining-under-the-spotlights razorguy

ChYlD
Message no. 13
From: David Mezerette <mezeretted@*****.U-NANCY.FR>
Subject: Re: NERPS[Stuff]: Cyberlimb protection
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 06:17:53 +0100
At 20:02 27/11/97 +0100, you wrote:

>But now for something completly different... :-)
>What about including a fat bacteriea shielding in the limb. This would
>hide the true aura completly. Remeber that the aura "radiates around the
>body, thetrefore clothing does not stop the aura. Otherwise you wouldn't
>be alble to atack someone weraring even a simple dress, because you
>won't be able to see enough of the aura. But with the fat bacteria the
>aura is hidden. an attack with a standart non-manipulation splell would
>kill only the bacteria, but couldn't harm the living thing under them.
>Thining about a full body replacement this woudl stop the attacers first
>spell. Crazy idea? I use something similar in my campaing. OK now you
>all hate FASA for inventing this bacteria stuff, esp. all mages and
>shamans, don't you?
>Tell me what you think.
so, you dared ask! be careful, i'm in a real bad 'no'-period (quitting
smoking, i guess...). abaout the FAB shielding, it's an interessant idea,
but it would have to cover ALL the body. If you don't mind your sec guards
looking like astronauts wearing deep-space suits, it's OK to me. Remember
however it wouldn't be very good for the PR of the corp, so it would be used
only in real sensitive areas.
>
>Predator
>
Message no. 14
From: Lester Ward <lward@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: NERPS[Stuff]: Cyberlimb protection
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 12:43:47 -0500
Piatro wrote:
>With all of this understood, I still think the Fleshweave concept would
>make the limb more essence friendly. Maybe it should be considered the
>next step beyond Delta cyberware. What do you think?

I've always thought that alpha/beta/delta limbs did this already. How else
can you justify the reduced essence for removing an arm unless you say that
higher grades of cyberlimbs allow the same performance but without removing
all of the meat. It would make no sense to me, for example, to let someone
whose arm was cut off in battle and lost (into a pit of lava, let's say) to
get an alpha/beta/delta replacement for it. (Well, maybe if they cloned a
new arm first.)

Wordman
Message no. 15
From: Sly <sly@****.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: NERPS[Stuff]: Cyberlimb protection
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 07:14:42 +1000
> At 21:04 26/11/97 -0600, Mezerette wrote:
> >normal attack. But the same action with a FleshWeave arm would receive
> >full magical bonuses.
> so, according to you, a character can't use cyberstuff for any magical
> action? so how does a mage w/ cybereyes cast spell? i think the aura of the
> character has, to some extent, integrate the cyberpart, and that's why he
> payed essence. If that's not so, you should extend your rule to non-cloned

Cyberware that you have paid essence for is counted for magical
purposes (I think the rulebook actually states this for eyes and line
of sight spellcasting in the discussion of why mirrors and fibre
optics work, but camera's don't). I suppose cyberware limbs, etc
would have an aura for targetting spells at (incorpated into the
target person's aura), but that the aura _looks_ different in astral
space.

Note that spells don't have to target living objects (ie Ram
vs vehicle), and that you can still "see" (asense actually) non
living things in the astral (ie you can't asense through a wall), but
that they don't stop movement. From the impressions I get they also
look "dead" (describe as pale, washed out colours), whereas living
things are "alive" (brighter, pulsing colours).

Also on the topic of paying essence to incorporate cyber into your
aura. Magic (most) requires line of sight - this includes optical
devices such as fibre optic/mirrors - but cameras, etc do not count.
Cybereyes do work. Is sight restricted to certain parts of the
electromagnetic spectrum? What about an elf/orc using low-light where
the other mage can't see them? What about a dwarf/troll using
infra-red, where the other can't see them (dark), or even worse in
Smoke? What about a mage with cybereyes with infra-red?

eg. 1st round: mage throws smoke grenade, 2nd round mage starts
blasting spells, but enemy can't reply.

Similar story for UV, but what about microwave/radiowaves/other
electromagnetic spectrum.

(obviously it won't apply to ultrasonics (moving air particles),
which are great for detecting invisible people BTW).

- Sly

--
Sly - Reality Engineer <sly@****.com.au>
Phone: (04) 1454 2562
Snail: PO Box 1615, Macquarie Centre NSW 2113, Australia
"Reality is for those who can't handle roleplaying."
Message no. 16
From: Predator Omega <ba1764@*******.BAYNET.DE>
Subject: Re: NERPS[Stuff]: Cyberlimb protection
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:20:52 +0100
Lester Ward schrieb:

> I've always thought that alpha/beta/delta limbs did this already. How else
> can you justify the reduced essence for removing an arm unless you say that
> higher grades of cyberlimbs allow the same performance but without removing
> all of the meat. It would make no sense to me, for example, to let someone
> whose arm was cut off in battle and lost (into a pit of lava, let's say) to
> get an alpha/beta/delta replacement for it. (Well, maybe if they cloned a
> new arm first.)
>
> Wordman

I don't think it makes sense to create a cyberlimb that can bleed. At
least notfor me. I agree with Wordman in the essence-thing of
alpha/beta/delta and the argument about the reason for the essenze-cost
of te limbs.
Depending on who you are it makes sense to clone the lost limb, e.g. if
you are Jonny Normal and not a Shadowrunner. In these situations it
would make sense to buy a flesh arm and not a much better und durabler
cyberlimb.

In my opinion (a street sammys and GM opinion)the future of cyberware in
general and cyberlimbs in detail will be artificial bodyparts that grow
and heal themselfes, just like their organic counterparts, but much (!)
faster and easier. Ok, this is SF even for Shadowrun.

I have invented some kind of ultra-fast repair cyberware and will post
it soon. It can't be compared to the regeneration powers of let's say
shapechangers, but you can reach a 90 percent reduction in healing-time
if you spend enough money. You'll get the details soon. Please wait with
your comments on this point until you know them.

I don't know whether it is important in your game(s) and campaign(s) if
cyberlimbs are damaged or hit in combat, but we use a hit-location
system and therefore we came to the problem wheter healing speels affect
cyberlimbs or not. Or if you can lower the damage of a limb by means of
first aid. As you can see I've spent a lot of thoughts on this subject.
How do you think about it?

BTW I'll post the hit location sys if you are interessted in as soon as
I'll have it translated into English. I'm a German as may have guessed
by my mistakes in spelling and grammar.

Ok thats all for now.
CU soon and have a good game.
Predator

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