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Message no. 1
From: kyle kohler <kkohler@**.UCR.EDU>
Subject: Psi: Cost of Powers/Categories
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 1994 19:58:56 -0700
Okay, here's an idea about the cost of powers and categories:

Cost of a category: 5 points
Cost of a power: Force rating (can not start with higher
than 6)
My reasoning is a follows:
Say you have 40 points to spend (a Full Psi putting B in
Tech), You could get all six categories to use and then you would only
have 10 points left to spend on actual powers. Not a lot. In this case,
you trade off beginning power for the potential to be more versatile (and
you end up spending your Karma later on to get powers instead of categories).
Alternately, you could buy one or two categories (costing 5 or 10 points) and
would have 30-35 points to spend on powers (quite a lot).
Unfortunately, you would be only able to spend them on those two categories, thus
trading all the other types of powers for either more abilities or a few
abilities of a very high ranking.
Example: Jorge the Psionicist(TM) is being made by, me. I
decide to give him 40 points for powers. I say to myself, Kyle, let's try
to make a combat machine out of this baby. Let's see how much damage he
can do. So I spend 5 points for Telekinesis, 5 points for Telepathy, and 5
pointsfor PsychoMetabolics. That leaves me with 25 points to spend on
actual powers. First, I take Heal Self (Psychometabolic Power) with a
force of 3. If I need to heal myself, I'll just use my Psi Pool to boost my
dice. I then take Telekinetic Punch (TK Power) to crush my opponents with
force. I'll take it at a force of 5 just so I can crack through the armor
that all those cybered assholes always seem to wear, besides, how else am I
going to knock down walls for dramatic flair?. I'll also take Mind
Blast (Telepathy Power) to nail the bastards that I can't crack. I'll
also take it at a force of 5 just to be safe. That leaves me with, let's see,
12 points. Hmmm...what to get next. I'll take Invisibility of 3 to sneak up
on the bad guys (relying on my Psi Pool when I really need those successes).
Now I have 9 points. I need some armor so I'll take Armor (TK Power) of 3 to
have on myself whenver I go into battle (once again I will probably end
up using my Psi Pool to get a lot of successes). Only 6 points left.
How's about I take Danger Sense (PsychoMetabolic Power) of 3 to get
bonuses to my Dodge Pool when I get attacked. Now I've only got 3 points left. I'll
spend all of
them on Ignite (TK power) for lighting things (like ammo belts) and people
on fire. Assuming my character is human, E in Race, I put an A in Magic/Psi
and a B in Tech. Well, to hopefully stay alive, I'll put C in Attributes and
D in Skills. For my skills, I'll take Psionic Projection of 6, giving me a 6
Psi-Pool. I'll take Psionic Theory of 4 just so I have some idea of what
the hell is going on. Well, now I've only got 10 points left. I'll put 4 into Firearms,
for when I run out of power due to drain, put 3 in Bike for those times
when I need to get the hell out of there, and the last 3 will go into
Stealth. For my attributes, I'll put a 6 in Willpower (to resist the
Drain), a 4 in Body, a 4 in Intelligence,a 1 in Charisma, a 4 in
Quickness, and a 1 in Strength.

Here's what the "Combat Monster" looks like

B: 4 Skills: Psionic Projection: 6
Q: 4 Psionic Theory: 4
S: 1 FireArms: 4
C: 1 Bike: 3
I: 4 Stealth: 3
W: 6
E: 6 Powers: Heal Self: 3
R: 4 TK Punch: 5
P: 6 Mind Blast: 5
I: 1d6+4 Invisibility: 3
Armor: 3
Psi Pool: 6 Danger Sense: 3
400,000Y to buy toys Ignite: 3
Let's take a look at him in combat: His TK punch ain't gonna do
much against a well-armored foe. Against unarmored, they'll probably
get crushed if he uses it at 5 force and uses 5 of his Psi-Pool to
womp them. That's 10 dice against a TN of 4 (+/- modifiers). The target will
need 5's to resist damage (not too easy). So he toasts an unarmored
foe. Drain is gonna be a bitch since it's a Force 5 power and he only has 1
Psi-Pool left. Against an armored one, his TK is gonna get knocked down because
it'll have to bust through the armor to hurt the target. So he opts to
use Mind Blast instead. Once again, assuming he uses 10 dice, he rolls them
against a TN equal to the targets Willpower (could be high, could be low). I
mean, even a Street Samie has a Will of 5. And that same sammie will
probably have armor too so he won't be that hurt by the TK puch. Again,
Drain is gonna be a pain. What now? Well, he could try to ignite the Sammie but
by the time he probably does, the sammie would have turned him to street
pizza with some well placed shots. All this is assuming, of course, that the
Psionicist actually got to take an action, since the highest he can get on an
Initiative is a 10. Most sammies will at least have one action before
that. If the psioncist has his Armor or Danger Sense up to try and
survive, all his TN's will be higher because those are sustained
powers. Makes it even harder to win. If the Psionicist tried to
shoot his gun instead, he could probably do some damage (skill of
4 + combat pool), but he won't be using his "all-mighty" powers.
Granted, this is an extreme case, but I think I made my point.
The less points you spend on tech, the less
powers/categories you have. As you can see, Psionics will not be
"All-Powerful" devices for munchkins. Instead, they will most likely
have a high mortality rate due to low abilities and skills, as well as
being feared and hunted by the corps. Instead, Psionics will most likely
turn into more of a role-playing type of character. A character could
take all the categories and not take any powers, thus playing a "latent"
psionicist who will discover and develop his powers throughout the game.
And a psionicist who has only 5 points to spend in powers (E rating, or F
if we add another priority) will not have any powers at all, instead he
would just pick a category for later developement.

And while I'm on the subject of later developement, here's
some posible Karma costs for Psionic Categories and Powers later on:
Gaining a New Psionic Category: 20 Karma
This way, even if a Psionicist survives long
enough, let's say 4 runs, gaining 5 Karma from each, he will barely have
enough to get a new category, and will also be OOK (out of Karma). The
reason I mde this so high, is that when I Psionicist gains a new
category, he is basically expanding his knowledge of his powers to a
new level. He is telling himself that he can now do things that he
previously had no idea how to.

Gaining a New Psionic Power :
Desired Force (i.e. TK punch at 5 would cost 5
Karma)
Same as Magic (and I didn't hear anyone bitching about
that rule) =)


%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
% % % %
% Kyle Kohler % Love your enemies, % This space %
% % % %
% kkohler@**.ucr.edu % It'll confuse the % Unintentionally %
% % % %
% C.S. Major % hell out of them % left blank %
% % % %
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Message no. 2
From: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Psi: Cost of Powers/Categories
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 1994 22:17:24 +0100
Two things:

1) Danger Sense would be a sustained Divination ability, not a
psychometabolic. :-)

2) What about instead of a blanket cost for each Dicipline, it is
instead bought in stages.

For example. For three creation points, I could buy psychometabolics at
three, but at the same time I couldn't take any abilities in that
dicipline above three either. If later I wanted to better the skills, I
also have to better the dicipline (more karma).

____ Robert A. Hayden <=> hayden@******.mankato.msus.edu
\ /__ -=-=-=-=- <=> -=-=-=-=-
\/ / Finger for Geek Code Info <=> I do not necessarily speak for the
\/ Finger for PGP Public Key <=> City of Mankato or anyone else, dammit
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
(GEEK CODE 2.1) GJ/CM d- H-- s-:++>s-:+ g+ p? au+ a- w++ v* C++(++++) UL++++$
P+>++ L++$ 3- E---- N+++ K+++ W M+ V-- -po+(---)>$ Y++ t+ 5+++
j R+++$ G- tv+ b+ D+ B--- e+>++(*) u** h* f r-->+++ !n y++**
Message no. 3
From: kyle kohler <kkohler@**.UCR.EDU>
Subject: Re: Psi: Cost of Powers/Categories
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 1994 21:17:06 -0700
On Tue, 19 Jul 1994, Robert A. Hayden wrote:

> Two things:
>
> 1) Danger Sense would be a sustained Divination ability, not a
> psychometabolic. :-)

Yeah, I realized that about 2 seconds after I posted it, but was
hoping no one else would. Anyways, you get the point.

>
> 2) What about instead of a blanket cost for each Dicipline, it is
> instead bought in stages.
>
> For example. For three creation points, I could buy psychometabolics at
> three, but at the same time I couldn't take any abilities in that
> dicipline above three either. If later I wanted to better the skills, I
> also have to better the dicipline (more karma).

Yeah, I was thinking about that too. I'm working on it now. It
should be done in a few minutes (need to think it through for a good
couple of seconds).

Kyle Kohler

No funnny names, no catchy slogans.
Message no. 4
From: Patrick F Omalley <omalleyp@*******.MSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Psi: Cost of Powers/Categories
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 1994 01:36:21 -0400
Kyle said:
> Okay, here's an idea about the cost of powers and categories:
>
> Cost of a category: 5 points
> Cost of a power: Force rating (can not start with higher
> than 6)

I like it!!

> Gaining a New Psionic Category: 20 Karma

I don't like it!! It seems a bit steep. Look at what Sams, Mages,
or even deckers could do with that much karma! And all a Psi could do is
get ONE new category. I don't think it should be cheap, but this is a bit
much. How about 10?




Patrick O'Malley (son of the Clan of Mailey)
omalleyp@*******.msu.edu
=========================================/==========================
GAT d--- h++ s:+ g-/+ p? !au> a- w+(+++) \ also look for:
v++ c+++>++++ ? P? L 3 E? !N K- W--- M-- / Vizsla, Devil, Pengo,
!V -po+ Y+>++ t++ 5 j r++>+++ G tv \ K.I.A., POM, Hey you.
b+(+++) D++ b--- e+>++ u** h>+ f+(*) n-- /==========================
!y+
Message no. 5
From: Darth Vader <j07c@***.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Psi: Cost of Powers/Categories
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 1994 10:53:35 +0100
> For example. For three creation points, I could buy psychometabolics at
> three, but at the same time I couldn't take any abilities in that
> dicipline above three either. If later I wanted to better the skills, I
> also have to better the dicipline (more karma).

That actually sounds like my very first proposal concerning psis :)
Yep Its a good idea, but how about a variation . We could say that the
rating of the discipline is not the maximum for the psis powers, but rather
his minimum, a minimum he can fall back to when he does 'know' a specific
power. Soret of a catchall for all the powers in the discipline.
Alloysius Q. Sampleman (its Regies cousin) has a Telekinesis
(discipline) rating of 4, and tries to help his poor cousin to lift that
damned fishtank. Alas poor Al :) has not learned any powers that enable
him to do that, so he uses just his basic discipline dice (could be his
pool). If Al had e.g. the Telekinetik Lift power, at say a rating of 6
he could use 6+pooldice to lift the tank. Whereas now he is force to use
just his pooldice :)

--
Strong am I with the Force... but not that strong!
Twilight is upon me and soon night must fall.
That is the way of things ... the way of the Force.

GCS d>d- h s+: !g p? !au a- w+ v-(?) C+++ UAVSL++>UAVSL+++ p--(aren't we all?)
L+>L+++ 3 N++ K W(+)(---) M-- !V(--) -po+(---) Y+ t++ !5 !j- r+++(--) !G
v(++) b+++ D++ b- e+ u++(-) h*(+) f+ r- n!(----) y?
Message no. 6
From: kyle kohler <kkohler@**.UCR.EDU>
Subject: Re: Psi: Cost of Powers/Categories
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 1994 03:18:44 -0700
On Wed, 20 Jul 1994, Darth Vader wrote:

> > For example. For three creation points, I could buy psychometabolics at
> > three, but at the same time I couldn't take any abilities in that
> > dicipline above three either. If later I wanted to better the skills, I
> > also have to better the dicipline (more karma).
>
> That actually sounds like my very first proposal concerning psis :)
> Yep Its a good idea, but how about a variation . We could say that the
> rating of the discipline is not the maximum for the psis powers, but rather
> his minimum, a minimum he can fall back to when he does 'know' a specific
> power. Soret of a catchall for all the powers in the discipline.
> Alloysius Q. Sampleman (its Regies cousin) has a Telekinesis
> (discipline) rating of 4, and tries to help his poor cousin to lift that
> damned fishtank. Alas poor Al :) has not learned any powers that enable
> him to do that, so he uses just his basic discipline dice (could be his
> pool). If Al had e.g. the Telekinetik Lift power, at say a rating of 6
> he could use 6+pooldice to lift the tank. Whereas now he is force to use
> just his pooldice :)
>

I don't think that will work. That would overbalance the game.
Would you like it if a mage could cast any spell he wanted, even if he
just used his Magic Pool? That makes them too powerful. I think if you
don't have the power, then you haven't adapted your mind to wielding your
power in that way yet. Let's try not to overbalance the game by giving
Psionicists "perks" like that. No one else can do it in the game, so
there is no precedent to make a rule like that.


Kyle Kohler

I should really go to bed.
Message no. 7
From: Darth Vader <j07c@***.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Psi: Cost of Powers/Categories
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 1994 14:24:53 +0100
> Okay, here's an idea about the cost of powers and categories:
>
> Cost of a category: 5 points
> Cost of a power: Force rating (can not start with higher
> than 6)

Fine with me, you forgot only one thing, categories are supposed
to have ratings too. And 5 points/point is too much dontcha think.
One other thing comes to mind though. If we do it this way then all psis
will have all categories given enough time and karma. How about allowing
them to improve only on the categories they have bought during character
generation. This would help preserve the image of the specialized psi.

MUCH MUNCH [Combat Monster deleted] MUNCH MUNCH

I agree we have a problem with the initiative. SR allows for every
'class' to boost their reflexes either through magic, cyber or physical magic
so I feel that we should include something of the sort for our psis. How
about an ability that allows 'precognition in battle', a psi using this power
would effectively know what the enemy will do before the enemy actually takes
his move, thus giving him the chance to anticipate the actions of his opponent.
This should give him the initiative, dontcha think so ?
BTW I got this idea from the Strands of Starlight books. There elves use their
'precognition' in battle this way.

> turn into more of a role-playing type of character. A character could
> take all the categories and not take any powers, thus playing a "latent"
> psionicist who will discover and develop his powers throughout the game.
> And a psionicist who has only 5 points to spend in powers (E rating, or F
> if we add another priority) will not have any powers at all, instead he
> would just pick a category for later developement.

That is one type of psionic character that can be played, but I wouldnt
want to loose up on all the other wanderfull opurtunities.

> And while I'm on the subject of later developement, here's
> some posible Karma costs for Psionic Categories and Powers later on:
> Gaining a New Psionic Category: 20 Karma
> This way, even if a Psionicist survives long
> enough, let's say 4 runs, gaining 5 Karma from each, he will barely have
> enough to get a new category, and will also be OOK (out of Karma). The
> reason I mde this so high, is that when I Psionicist gains a new
> category, he is basically expanding his knowledge of his powers to a
> new level. He is telling himself that he can now do things that he
> previously had no idea how to.

But not all psis have the ability to manipulate all powers -
genetically speaking.

--
Strong am I with the Force... but not that strong!
Twilight is upon me and soon night must fall.
That is the way of things ... the way of the Force.

GCS d>d- h s+: !g p? !au a- w+ v-(?) C+++ UAVSL++>UAVSL+++ p--(aren't we all?)
L+>L+++ 3 N++ K W(+)(---) M-- !V(--) -po+(---) Y+ t++ !5 !j- r+++(--) !G
v(++) b+++ D++ b- e+ u++(-) h*(+) f+ r- n!(----) y?
Message no. 8
From: kyle kohler <kkohler@**.UCR.EDU>
Subject: Re: Psi: Cost of Powers/Categories
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 1994 04:51:20 -0700
On Wed, 20 Jul 1994, Darth Vader wrote:

> > Okay, here's an idea about the cost of powers and categories:
> >
> > Cost of a category: 5 points
> > Cost of a power: Force rating (can not start with higher
> > than 6)
>
> Fine with me, you forgot only one thing, categories are supposed
> to have ratings too. And 5 points/point is too much dontcha think.
> One other thing comes to mind though. If we do it this way then all psis
> will have all categories given enough time and karma. How about allowing
> them to improve only on the categories they have bought during character
> generation. This would help preserve the image of the specialized psi.

I fixed that in my later posting. And shouldn't Psis be able to
enlighten themselves further and openeing their mind to new abilities?
Once agian, I draw the parallel with a mage. You wouldn't limit a mage
to one or two groups of categories. Don't do it with a Psi. Let Psis
have as many oportunities as all other archetypes.

>
> MUCH MUNCH [Combat Monster deleted] MUNCH MUNCH
>

And oh what a fearsome one he was =)

> I agree we have a problem with the initiative. SR allows for every
> 'class' to boost their reflexes either through magic, cyber or physical magic
> so I feel that we should include something of the sort for our psis. How
> about an ability that allows 'precognition in battle', a psi using this power
> would effectively know what the enemy will do before the enemy actually takes
> his move, thus giving him the chance to anticipate the actions of his opponent.
> This should give him the initiative, dontcha think so ?
> BTW I got this idea from the Strands of Starlight books. There elves use their
> 'precognition' in battle this way.
>

It is a proposed ability. Increase Reaction. A Psychometabolic
Power. There is also Danger Sense (a Divination power) that acts like
the spell of the same name.

> > turn into more of a role-playing type of character. A character could
> > take all the categories and not take any powers, thus playing a
"latent"
> > psionicist who will discover and develop his powers throughout the game.
> > And a psionicist who has only 5 points to spend in powers (E rating, or F
> > if we add another priority) will not have any powers at all, instead he
> > would just pick a category for later developement.
>
> That is one type of psionic character that can be played, but I wouldnt
> want to loose up on all the other wanderfull opurtunities.
>
> > And while I'm on the subject of later developement, here's
> > some posible Karma costs for Psionic Categories and Powers later on:
> > Gaining a New Psionic Category: 20 Karma
> > This way, even if a Psionicist survives long
> > enough, let's say 4 runs, gaining 5 Karma from each, he will barely have
> > enough to get a new category, and will also be OOK (out of Karma). The
> > reason I mde this so high, is that when I Psionicist gains a new
> > category, he is basically expanding his knowledge of his powers to a
> > new level. He is telling himself that he can now do things that he
> > previously had no idea how to.
>
> But not all psis have the ability to manipulate all powers -
> genetically speaking.
>

I'm not sure if genetics should have any say in the matter. At
least not yet. Maybe in the write up, we could explain it as such (like
in ShadowTech).


Kyle Kohler

I'm going to bed God Damnit!
Message no. 9
From: Darth Vader <j07c@***.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Psi: Cost of Powers/Categories
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 1994 15:13:35 +0100
> > That actually sounds like my very first proposal concerning psis :)
> > Yep Its a good idea, but how about a variation . We could say that the
> > rating of the discipline is not the maximum for the psis powers, but rather
> > his minimum, a minimum he can fall back to when he does 'know' a specific
> > power. Soret of a catchall for all the powers in the discipline.
> > Alloysius Q. Sampleman (its Regies cousin) has a Telekinesis
> > (discipline) rating of 4, and tries to help his poor cousin to lift that
> > damned fishtank. Alas poor Al :) has not learned any powers that enable
> > him to do that, so he uses just his basic discipline dice (could be his
> > pool). If Al had e.g. the Telekinetik Lift power, at say a rating of 6
> > he could use 6+pooldice to lift the tank. Whereas now he is force to use
> > just his pooldice :)

> I don't think that will work. That would overbalance the game.
> Would you like it if a mage could cast any spell he wanted, even if he
> just used his Magic Pool? That makes them too powerful. I think if you
> don't have the power, then you haven't adapted your mind to wielding your
> power in that way yet. Let's try not to overbalance the game by giving
> Psionicists "perks" like that. No one else can do it in the game, so
> there is no precedent to make a rule like that.

So what your saying is, if mages cant do it psis shouldnt be able to
do it. Isnt this exactly the oposite of what you said in your other post about
doing what we like best and not thinking about FASA? Psis ARE DIFFERENT FROM
MAGES, thats why its understandable that they should be able to do different
things. Mages need their spell - strict formulas that tell them what to do
because they themselves depend on the astral to give them their power -
psis however dont. Their mind has some abilities, abilities they can use
anyway they wish. Special powers are things they have been trained to do
especially well, thus getting more dice. But that doesnt mean that they
should not be able to try and do whatever they want with this ability?

--
Strong am I with the Force... but not that strong!
Twilight is upon me and soon night must fall.
That is the way of things ... the way of the Force.

GCS d>d- h s+: !g p? !au a- w+ v-(?) C+++ UAVSL++>UAVSL+++ p--(aren't we all?)
L+>L+++ 3 N++ K W(+)(---) M-- !V(--) -po+(---) Y+ t++ !5 !j- r+++(--) !G
v(++) b+++ D++ b- e+ u++(-) h*(+) f+ r- n!(----) y?
Message no. 10
From: kyle kohler <kkohler@**.UCR.EDU>
Subject: Re: Psi: Cost of Powers/Categories
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 1994 05:40:09 -0700
On Wed, 20 Jul 1994, Darth Vader wrote:

>
> > I don't think that will work. That would overbalance the game.
> > Would you like it if a mage could cast any spell he wanted, even if he
> > just used his Magic Pool? That makes them too powerful. I think if you
> > don't have the power, then you haven't adapted your mind to wielding your
> > power in that way yet. Let's try not to overbalance the game by giving
> > Psionicists "perks" like that. No one else can do it in the game, so
> > there is no precedent to make a rule like that.
>
> So what your saying is, if mages cant do it psis shouldnt be able to
> do it. Isnt this exactly the oposite of what you said in your other post about
> doing what we like best and not thinking about FASA? Psis ARE DIFFERENT FROM
> MAGES, thats why its understandable that they should be able to do different
> things. Mages need their spell - strict formulas that tell them what to do
> because they themselves depend on the astral to give them their power -
> psis however dont. Their mind has some abilities, abilities they can use
> anyway they wish. Special powers are things they have been trained to do
> especially well, thus getting more dice. But that doesnt mean that they
> should not be able to try and do whatever they want with this ability?
>

I was just using a mage as an example because it is the closest
thing to Psionicist right now. I agree with your concept above, but you
have to think about game balance. I believe that this will overbalance
the game. It basically lessens the point restriction behind the powers,
because they can always use their Psi Pool to use a power. This also
will lead to munchkinism. If Psi Pool is determined by some combo of
attributes, you can damn well be sure that the munchkin's character is
going to have 6's in those attributes. The Psionicist is not a god. He
cannot simply use all powers. This is reflected by him spending Tech
points on categories. This represents the limits he is placing on
himself. Remember, Psionics are fairly new, and no one (not even us)
know the limits or ranges of the powers. As the character progresses
(and spends Karma), he would begin to realize that he can do anything he
wants (represented by buying new categories at higher levels and new
powers). If you are set on allowing them to do this, I would say, let
them use their Category Skill at a -2 or -3 (min of 1) to use a power
they don't possess. And they cannot use a power that they don't even
have a category in.

Kyle Kohler

That's it, I'm calling Luke Skywalker!
Message no. 11
From: Darth Vader <j07c@***.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Psi: Cost of Powers/Categories
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 1994 16:03:18 +0100
> I was just using a mage as an example because it is the closest
> thing to Psionicist right now. I agree with your concept above, but you
> have to think about game balance. I believe that this will overbalance
> the game. It basically lessens the point restriction behind the powers,
> because they can always use their Psi Pool to use a power. This also
> will lead to munchkinism. If Psi Pool is determined by some combo of
> attributes, you can damn well be sure that the munchkin's character is
> going to have 6's in those attributes. The Psionicist is not a god. He

I was thinking more along the lines of a pool equall to his
category rating. This would free us from the munchkinism threat.
If a munchkin wants to have a pool of 6 for PK we'll have to buy PK
at 6 effectively spending a big part of his points on only one
category. This will help give an identity to the psi as he decides
in wich categories he will be good at and wich not.

> cannot simply use all powers. This is reflected by him spending Tech
> points on categories. This represents the limits he is placing on

Powers are not the issue here, powers are just training a psi
received in using his talents(categories) in a specific way. The
important thing here are the categories themselves, I feel that a psi
should be in a position to use his talents(categories) in any way he
sees fit. This is not Dee-n-Dee and psis dont need spells.

> himself. Remember, Psionics are fairly new, and no one (not even us)
> know the limits or ranges of the powers. As the character progresses
> (and spends Karma), he would begin to realize that he can do anything he
> wants (represented by buying new categories at higher levels and new
> powers). If you are set on allowing them to do this, I would say, let
> them use their Category Skill at a -2 or -3 (min of 1) to use a power
> they don't possess. And they cannot use a power that they don't even
> have a category in.

Of course a psi should only use a power in a category he has
bought. About giving them too much power, remember that in SR we have
a thing called Force. We could keep the psis under control by ruling
that uses of the talents(categories) without the apropriate power
work only at a force equal to half the rating of the category. This
would make them quite wimpy, but would still give them the flexibility
any psi should have.

--
Strong am I with the Force... but not that strong!
Twilight is upon me and soon night must fall.
That is the way of things ... the way of the Force.

GCS d>d- h s+: !g p? !au a- w+ v-(?) C+++ UAVSL++>UAVSL+++ p--(aren't we all?)
L+>L+++ 3 N++ K W(+)(---) M-- !V(--) -po+(---) Y+ t++ !5 !j- r+++(--) !G
v(++) b+++ D++ b- e+ u++(-) h*(+) f+ r- n!(----) y?
Message no. 12
From: Jai Tao <jdfalk@****.CAIS.COM>
Subject: Re: Psi: Cost of Powers/Categories
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 1994 10:57:38 -0400
On Wed, 20 Jul 1994, kyle kohler wrote:

> On Wed, 20 Jul 1994, Darth Vader wrote:
>
> > > Would you like it if a mage could cast any spell he wanted, even if he
> > > just used his Magic Pool? That makes them too powerful. I think if you
> > > don't have the power, then you haven't adapted your mind to wielding your
> > > power in that way yet.
. . .
> > Mages need their spell - strict formulas that tell them what to do
> > because they themselves depend on the astral to give them their power -
> > psis however dont. Their mind has some abilities, abilities they can use
> > anyway they wish. Special powers are things they have been trained to do
> > especially well, thus getting more dice. But that doesnt mean that they
> > should not be able to try and do whatever they want with this ability?
>
> I was just using a mage as an example because it is the closest
> thing to Psionicist right now. I agree with your concept above, but you
> have to think about game balance. I believe that this will overbalance
> the game.

When talking about game balance, we need to look at the whole
thing -- not just the powers avaliable, but the consequences for _using_
the power. Just off the cuff, I'd suggest that target numbers be much
higher (perhaps doubled), and drain be increased as well.
Therefore, this will _not_ be an easy thing to do, and game
balance will be preserved.

/-----------------\
| J.D. Falk | "We're not mental or anything, so
| jdfalk@****.com | don't be afraid."
\-----------------/ -Mike Meyers as Wayne Campbell

(Geek Code 2.1) GO/T/AT$ -d+(-) H++ s+:+ !g p1>+ au>++ a20 w@ v++(-)
C++(+++) UB(++)>++++ P+ L 3 E---- N++ K(++) W M@ V--
-po+(--) Y+ t+(++) 5- j>x R+(+++) G++(') $tv+ b+>++
D(-) B- e+ u*+(-) h!(*) f+ r(++)>++ n-(----) y+
Message no. 13
From: kyle kohler <kkohler@**.UCR.EDU>
Subject: Re: Psi: Cost of Powers/Categories
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 1994 15:50:39 -0700
On Wed, 20 Jul 1994, Jai Tao wrote:

> When talking about game balance, we need to look at the whole
> thing -- not just the powers avaliable, but the consequences for _using_
> the power. Just off the cuff, I'd suggest that target numbers be much
> higher (perhaps doubled), and drain be increased as well.
> Therefore, this will _not_ be an easy thing to do, and game
> balance will be preserved.
>

Maybe, half force, same drain? For instance, I have Levitate
Item (TK Power) of 4. My TK Category Skill is 6. I want to TK punch
some streetie who pissed me off. So I TK punch him with a Force of 3,
rolling 3 dice + Psi Pool. I resist the Drain as if it were a Force 6 TK
punch. If I TK punched him at a force of 2, the drain would be as 4.
This would reflect the strain put on the Psi due to using a power he
really has no idea about.

> /-----------------\
> | J.D. Falk | "We're not mental or anything, so
> | jdfalk@****.com | don't be afraid."

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Speak for yourself...


Kyle Kohler

Who spent all night/morning trying to blow up the NERPS
listserver by posting hundreds of Psi ideas so that his ulcer would go away.
Message no. 14
From: Tim Skirvin <tskirvin@********.UNI.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Psi: Cost of Powers/Categories
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 1994 19:06:27 -0500
> do it. Isnt this exactly the oposite of what you said in your
> other post about
> doing what we like best and not thinking about FASA? Psis ARE
> DIFFERENT FROM

Yes, I admit that Psis ARE different from Psis. Point's fine.

However, we don't want to make Psis too powerful. Why don't we just
use a kind of Psi-web for the powers instead, losing 1 die for each one
they move. The idea is still there, they can cast whatever they want, but
it shouldn't be THAT easy for them.

-------------Tim Skirvin (tskirvin@********.uni.uiuc.edu-------------
"He's NOT a gibbering idiot - he's cured of gibbering, he's just an
idiot now." -- Jane, "Waiting for God"
Message no. 15
From: "J.D. Falk" <jdfalk@****.CAIS.COM>
Subject: Re: Psi: Cost of Powers/Categories
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 1994 20:52:57 -0400
On Wed, 20 Jul 1994, kyle kohler wrote:

> Maybe, half force, same drain? For instance, I have Levitate
> Item (TK Power) of 4. My TK Category Skill is 6. I want to TK punch
> some streetie who pissed me off. So I TK punch him with a Force of 3,
> rolling 3 dice + Psi Pool. I resist the Drain as if it were a Force 6 TK
> punch. If I TK punched him at a force of 2, the drain would be as 4.
> This would reflect the strain put on the Psi due to using a power he
> really has no idea about.

Yes, that makes even more sense -- no reason that a Psi should
have full access to a manipulation they haven't learned to control, so
they won't have it at full power.
And, it retains the extra drain concept. Very good; let's do it,
and to AD&D (read: Hell) with the munchkins.

Further Reading

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