Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: kyle kohler <kkohler@**.UCR.EDU>
Subject: Psi Recap 2.0
Date: Sat, 30 Jul 1994 23:17:17 -0700
Ah, here at last. An (valid) excuse for me to make a long post.
Tee-Hee! Hold on to your Predators bause it's gonna be a bumpy ride. I'm
trying something new with this second release. Let me know if you like it
or have any suggestions...

1. The History of Psionics - This has been composed by JD Falk. As there
have been no objections or such, I believe that it is, for the most part,
ready to be stuck in the appropriate section of our non-existent book. If
you do have any suggestions/corrections, I suggest you make them soon.
Note that it is not included because it has been posted periodically to
NERPS. If you need/want it, contact jdfalk or myself.

2. The Priorities Table -

Priority Race Magic Psi Attrib Skills Resources
A Meta Full Full 30 pts 40pts 1M/50
B *Meta Adept Adept 24 pts 30 pts .4M/35
C *Meta None Wild 20pts 24 pts 90K/25
D Human None None 17 pts 20 pts 5K/15
E Human None None 15 pts 17 pts 500/ 5
F Human None None 14 pts 15 pts 200/ 0

This is a chart that would allow old characters to be introduced
to the system with no change. At all. 'F' rating is supposed from what
was already there in the system.

Priority Race Magic Psi Attrib Skills Resources
A Meta Full Full 30 pts 40 pts 1M/50
B *Meta Adept Adept 24 pts 30 pts. 4M/35
C *Meta None Wild 20 pts 24 pts 90K/25
D Human None None 17 pts 20 pts 5K/15
E Human None None 15 pts 17 pts 500/ 5
F Human None None 14 pts 15 pts 200/ 0

This is a chart that would allow old characters to be introduced
to the system with no change. At all. 'F' rating is supposed from what
was already there in the system.

Priority Race Magic Psi Attrib Skills Resources
A Meta Full Full 30 pts 40pts 1M/50
B *Meta Adept Adept 24 pts 30 pts .4M/35
C *Meta None Wild 20 pts 24pts 90K/25
D Human None None 17 pts 20 pts 5K/15
E Human None None 16 pts 18 pts 2K/10
F Human None None 15 pts 17 pts 500/ 5

This chart adds a letter between the old D and E. It doesn't work
perfectly, but it does allow old characters to be added without
trouble...their Psi priority was D.

Priority Race Magic Psi Attrib Skills Resources
A Meta Full Full 30 pts 40pts 1M/50
B *Meta Adept Adept 24 pts 30 pts .4M/35
C *Meta None Wild 20pts 24 pts 90K/25
D *Meta None None 18 pts 22 pts 20K/20
E Human None None 17 pts 20 pts 5K/15
F Human None None 15 pts 17 pts 500/ 5

This one is slightly more interesting for converted characters.
It makes them all Wild Psis.

2.5 Tech Points - There are two main ideaas behind this. One is to use
the Tech points given in the Priorities table and modify the costs of
various abilities and disciplines to accurately reflect what we want. The
other is to ignore the Tech points. To instead do the following (excperpt
from a message by S. Kieth Graham)

[ If PSIs have about 12 points to split at the beginning, then they will
have 2 powers at 6, 6 at 2, or 3 or 4 at somewhere in the middle.

Require 1 skill per area, and they get all "spells" in that area. An
Adept might get 6 points, a Wild 3.

You roll "power + (some) skill based" for attack, and "(rest of skill) +
will" for drain. Each power has a list of "common uses" along with drain
codes. ]

2.75 Latent Powers - There has also been talk of limiting the initial
power of Psis. TO make some of their powers "latent." They would be made
available, I assume, during game play and learned via a Karma expenditure.
This will, supposedly, make Psis specialize and be truly unique.

3. The Psionic Disciplines - I believe we are all in agreement with the
following list of disciplines available to Psionic characters. Note that
I included CyberPsionics, because aside from Loki's somewhat brutal attack
on it, I haven't heard any bitching about it lately. (composed by various
peoples)

Telepathy - Self-explanatory
Telekinesis - Self-explanatory
Divination - Pre/Postcognitive type powers, dnager sense, etc.
Clairvoyance - Self-explanatory
PsychoMetabolics - Affect your own body
CyberPsionics - Matrix related. Rob has tried his best to make
his idea on it clear. I am not including it because it goes through many
posts.

4. The Psionic-related skills - Here are the two skills that have been
proposed to be added to the list of skills in Shadowrun. Note that there
is still a debate about the Psionic Manipulation skill, as there has been
talk of using the Discipline rating in lieu of a skill (I believe Vader
is the major proponent of this idea, talk to know more). [These babies
are mine]

Psionic Manipulation: This skill enables the
character to control psionic energy and manipulate it to produce effects
(psionic powers).
Concentrations: Each Discipline will be a concentration

Psionic Theory: This skill gives the character a general
understanding of the functions and functioning of Psionics (makes you
wish we had this skill, eh?). It is vital in the developement of new
psionic powers (those devised during game play).
Concentrations: Power Design (Category), History
(Post-Awakening, Pre-Awakening, by Culture), Philosophies (Scientific,
Spiritual)

5. The Psi Pool - The last time I checked, the Psi Pool was looking like
this (Rob's concoction), but there are still those who just want to be
equal to the Psionic Manipulation skill.

Psi Pool = Psionic Manipulation + 1/2 Base Willpower + Mastery
Level

6. The Hacking Pool - The hacking pool is an idea thought up by Rob. It
goes a little something like this:

When one wants to hack a Psionic ability that he/she does not
possess, (s)he may allocate up to 1/2 his/her Psi Hacking Pool to roll for
success tests. Drain is as normal, and the restriction of not using a
ability greater than the discipline rating applies.

There was also the idea of using the discipline rating of the
power to be hacked and doubling the drain for the power. Also, as a
variation of the previous idea, cut the power in half (a 6 becomes a 3) and
keep the original drain (in this case a 6).

7. Cyberware and Bioware - Two factions. One says use the standard rule
of the 1:1 ratio for bio/cyberware and essence loss. The other says make
it proportional to the amount of involvement with the nervous system.
Compromise - Use standard rule and make the table created by [Tim Skirvin]
optional. There has also been talk that (neural) Bioware might be even
worse for a Psi because the neurosystem is vital to a Psi's abilities. If
this is replaced/modified, it would result in a large loss of Psi Rating.
This has been countered by the statement that the cloning procedures are
so good that there would be no noticable difference. The list of proposed
Bio/Cyberware losses per piece is not posted due to length. Ask if you
want a copy.

8. The PsiNet - An idea thought up by [S. Keith Graham]. It goes like
this:

Psis should have some way to contact and communicate with each
other. Sort of like the Internet (hence, the name). Now I'm not sure it
this is meant to be something available to all Psis, and they can "post"
things to the 'Net, or if it something akin to a telepathic link that two
or more Psis create to communicate only with those in the links. It has
also been pointed out that this could just be duplicated as a Telepathic
ability, called Mental Chat or something similar.

9. Psionic Combat - Another idea thought up by [S. Keith Graham]. Works
as follows:

Both Deckers and Mages have environments and opportunities to
engage in a one-on-one duel with a counterpart. For the Mage, it is
Astral Space. The Deckers take their fights to the Matrix. Why not have
Psis be able to take their fights to a "Psionic Plane?" There, they could
battle with all kinds of flashy effects, and mundanes (read, non-Psis)
would just see them standing there with constipated looks on their faces.
Finally, one would collapse while the other would dance around with the
theme to Rocky XXII playing in the background.

10. Initiation - Not much on the stuff behind it yet. This will probably
just end up mimicing the Magic rules, using similar/identical karma costs
and gaesa (maybe add or delete a few). Some want you to have the option
of either gaining a Mastery Level, or gaining a meta-ability when you fork
out the Karma. While reasonable, we have an awful lot of meta-abilities
proposed. Perhaps gaining the level and getting one power would work
better.

11. Meta-Abilities - Powers that involve the control of Psionics and/or
more powerful abilites that are reserved for Initiates. The format for
such powers, once we start submitting them are:

NAME: Obvious

COST: This is the number of points of karma you spend in order
to get this ability. In addition, there is a time listed
that is the base number of days or weeks it takes to learn
this ability. This time can be decreased by successes
based on intelligence (and maybe my the amount of =Y=
spent on training.)

PREREQUISITES: This are the MINIMUM levels of ability you must have in
various areas. This includes not just the diciplines you
have, but also the initiate "Mastery" Rating. If your
current ratings are below this, you will have to raise them
before you can get this ability.

EFFECT: Again, obvious.

SPECIAL NOTES: Basically, anything additional needed or weird that a
person needs to be aware of.

12. Drain - The easiest thing to do will be to mimic the modifiers for
spells that is in the Grimything-wingamajang-whomper-doodle-doo.

13. Full Psis - It looks like Full Psis will adhere to the following
rules/restrictions:

Spend an A (or B if metahuman) in Psi Priority. Full access to
all disciplines. Basically, the whole kit & caboodle (what the hell is a
caboodle, anyways?)

14. Psi Adepts - It looks like Psionic Adepts will adhere to the following
rules/restrictions:

Spend a B (or C if metahuman) in Psi Priority. Access to only one
discipline. Basically, just like Sorcery Adepts for magic.

15. Wild Psis - It looks like Wild Psionics will adhere to the following
rules/restrictions:

Spend a C (or D if metahuman) in Psi Priority. Access to only one
ability.

16. Karm Costs - Well, there's not much tangible stuff on this. I proposed
some stuff, but was told it will probably be too high. It's not that
important right now, but if you've got ideas, send them

17. Some things to start thinking about:

A. Psionic Critters - Either critters with Psi abilities or
perhaps Psi "Spirits"
B. World Mind - A write-up on this would be nice if we're thinking
of using it.
C. Famous Psis - Start thinking up some famous people. Bane
(currently living in my ongoing fluff) could be one.
D. Psi vs. Magic - Are we going to try to do anything about
possible problems when the two meet? If so, what. If not, are we going
to get nailed for it?
E. Psionic Groups
F. Corp involvement
G. Previous History of Psionics (Maybe the Elves know something we
don't? Just like magic)

Lastly, the outline for the book has been proposed by Rob. There have
been no comments on it (other than mine) so I shall wait until a later
edition to include it.


That's it. Now get to work =)


Kyle Kohler
kkohler@*****.ucr.edu

Good job men/women! Now let's get back in there and kick some
T$R ass! (oops, wrong list) =)
Message no. 2
From: "J.D. Falk" <jdfalk@****.CAIS.COM>
Subject: Re: Psi Recap 2.0
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 1994 02:53:46 -0400
On Sat, 30 Jul 1994, kyle kohler wrote:

> 1. The History of Psionics - This has been composed by JD Falk.
> If you need/want it, contact jdfalk or myself.

Yes.

> 2. The Priorities Table -
. . .
> This is a chart that would allow old characters to be introduced
> to the system with no change. At all. 'F' rating is supposed from what
> was already there in the system.

The least change to existing characters makes the most sense,
though I have to admit that my mind is spinning so much from all these
priority tables that I've been ignoring 'em recently.

> 2.75 Latent Powers - There has also been talk of limiting the initial
> power of Psis. TO make some of their powers "latent." They would be made
> available, I assume, during game play and learned via a Karma expenditure.
> This will, supposedly, make Psis specialize and be truly unique.

I beleive this was for Wild Psionics, not for Full Psionics or
Psionic Adepts. For Wild it makes sense, but for anybody else it'd just
unbalance the usefulness-to-headache ratio.

> 6. The Hacking Pool

I still think it should have a different name. To almost
everybody, hacking is related to computers.

> 7. Cyberware and Bioware - Two factions. One says use the standard rule
> of the 1:1 ratio for bio/cyberware and essence loss. The other says make
> it proportional to the amount of involvement with the nervous system.
> Compromise - Use standard rule and make the table created by [Tim Skirvin]
> optional.

This compromise seems to me to be the best way to do it.

> 17. Some things to start thinking about:
>
> A. Psionic Critters - Either critters with Psi abilities or
> perhaps Psi "Spirits"

Free-roaming THOUGHTS!? Er, um, no.

> B. World Mind - A write-up on this would be nice if we're thinking
> of using it.

I was hoping you wouldn't say that. I'll work on it, if I can
find the various new age books I was talking about last week. Don't let
this stop anybody else from working on it as well, BTW.

> C. Famous Psis - Start thinking up some famous people. Bane
> (currently living in my ongoing fluff) could be one.

Following with our accepted history, it is extremely unlikely
that there will be more than two or three famous psionics -- and at least
one should be a fake, just to make the game more interesting. Here's
some ideas for y'all to work on:

Dr. Robert James Andersen, the researcher at MIT&M who
"discovered" Psionics (not the head of the project, perhaps just a
statistician with big ideas or something like that.)
Edvard "Rat-Breath" Korianoff, a Combat Biker star who publicly
proclaimed himself to be a Telekinetic Adept and was immediately banned by
the World Combat Cyclists League. Nobody knows for sure if he actually
was psionically active, because his banishment took place in the middle
of a game, and he did not survive.

> E. Psionic Groups
> F. Corp involvement

There'd probably be Andersen's group at MIT&M, and probably
similar things happening at other big institutions. Also, most
governments and every big corp would have extremely hush-hush research
projects going on. But Psionics is still pretty new.

> G. Previous History of Psionics (Maybe the Elves know something we
> don't? Just like magic)

Oooh, but this'd be hard to do. Which myths are valid? Who are
we to say? Perhaps just a paragraph alluding to the more famous things,
like the spoon-benders and such.
Message no. 3
From: kyle kohler <kkohler@**.UCR.EDU>
Subject: Re: Psi Recap 2.0
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 1994 04:15:53 -0700
On Sun, 31 Jul 1994, J.D. Falk wrote:

> > 6. The Hacking Pool
>
> I still think it should have a different name. To almost
> everybody, hacking is related to computers.
>

We can change that later,but right now, everyone's calling it
hacking, but it should be changed to prevent confusion.

> > B. World Mind - A write-up on this would be nice if we're thinking
> > of using it.
>
> I was hoping you wouldn't say that. I'll work on it, if I can
> find the various new age books I was talking about last week. Don't let
> this stop anybody else from working on it as well, BTW.
>

I did it just for you =)

> > C. Famous Psis - Start thinking up some famous people. Bane
> > (currently living in my ongoing fluff) could be one.
>
> Following with our accepted history, it is extremely unlikely
> that there will be more than two or three famous psionics -- and at least
> one should be a fake, just to make the game more interesting. Here's
> some ideas for y'all to work on:
>
> Dr. Robert James Andersen, the researcher at MIT&M who
> "discovered" Psionics (not the head of the project, perhaps just a
> statistician with big ideas or something like that.)
> Edvard "Rat-Breath" Korianoff, a Combat Biker star who publicly
> proclaimed himself to be a Telekinetic Adept and was immediately banned by
> the World Combat Cyclists League. Nobody knows for sure if he actually
> was psionically active, because his banishment took place in the middle
> of a game, and he did not survive.
>
> > E. Psionic Groups
> > F. Corp involvement
>
> There'd probably be Andersen's group at MIT&M, and probably
> similar things happening at other big institutions. Also, most
> governments and every big corp would have extremely hush-hush research
> projects going on. But Psionics is still pretty new.

Or, at least, it's being passed off as new? Hmmm...something to
think about

>
> > G. Previous History of Psionics (Maybe the Elves know something we
> > don't? Just like magic)
>
> Oooh, but this'd be hard to do. Which myths are valid? Who are
> we to say? Perhaps just a paragraph alluding to the more famous things,
> like the spoon-benders and such.
>

Probably be best to hint at it, but put nothing definite...yet.


Kyle Kohler
kkohler@*****.ucr.edu

Elven Psionicist from the 4th World
Message no. 4
From: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Psi Recap 2.0
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 1994 14:19:54 +0100
On Sat, 30 Jul 1994, kyle kohler wrote:

> 2.75 Latent Powers - There has also been talk of limiting the initial
> power of Psis. TO make some of their powers "latent." They would be made
> available, I assume, during game play and learned via a Karma expenditure.
> This will, supposedly, make Psis specialize and be truly unique.

The 'latent power' concept was for wild psionics (rating C(D)). It would
allow they to bascially do nothing but hack a really low-level power at
the beginning, but to be able to role-play advancement later.

> Psionic Theory: This skill gives the character a general
> understanding of the functions and functioning of Psionics (makes you
> wish we had this skill, eh?). It is vital in the developement of new
> psionic powers (those devised during game play).
> Concentrations: Power Design (Category), History
> (Post-Awakening, Pre-Awakening, by Culture), Philosophies (Scientific,
> Spiritual)

Concentration: Hacking

> 6. The Hacking Pool - The hacking pool is an idea thought up by Rob. It
> goes a little something like this:
>
> When one wants to hack a Psionic ability that he/she does not
> possess, (s)he may allocate up to 1/2 his/her Psi Hacking Pool to roll for
> success tests. Drain is as normal, and the restriction of not using a
> ability greater than the discipline rating applies.

Not quite. You allocate a number of dice from yout psi-hacking pool, not
to exceed 1/2 your DICIPLINE RATING. Actually, I may repost on this
later, the numbers still aren't working right in the trials I've been
running.

> Psis should have some way to contact and communicate with each
> other. Sort of like the Internet (hence, the name). Now I'm not sure it
> this is meant to be something available to all Psis, and they can "post"
> things to the 'Net, or if it something akin to a telepathic link that two
> or more Psis create to communicate only with those in the links. It has
> also been pointed out that this could just be duplicated as a Telepathic
> ability, called Mental Chat or something similar.

I understood as a way for PSIs to babble real-time with other psis using
a telepathy-like power. It's not a 'net' per se, and it is really called
that because it sounds kool. It is better compared to something like IRC
or ytalk.


> Both Deckers and Mages have environments and opportunities to
> engage in a one-on-one duel with a counterpart. For the Mage, it is
> Astral Space. The Deckers take their fights to the Matrix. Why not have
> Psis be able to take their fights to a "Psionic Plane?" There, they could
> battle with all kinds of flashy effects, and mundanes (read, non-Psis)
> would just see them standing there with constipated looks on their faces.
> Finally, one would collapse while the other would dance around with the
> theme to Rocky XXII playing in the background.

The idea is sound, the rules just need to be worked out a little better.
This is mostly your classic 'battle of wills', with your skills playing
into it some.

> Perhaps gaining the level and getting one power would work
> better.

I think we should instead of tying a meta-ability to mastery, we simply
allow psis to learn them when they want, but they are meta-abilitites
because they require you to be at least a level-1 Master.

> 15. Wild Psis - It looks like Wild Psionics will adhere to the following
> rules/restrictions:
>
> Spend a C (or D if metahuman) in Psi Priority. Access to only one
> ability.

I think after my posting on wold psis, this has changed to "wild psis are
adepts (one dicipline) but they have no abilities abd bascially can only
hack at the start, but can become more later:.

> E. Psionic Groups
> F. Corp involvement

One of the things that scare people in SR is the numebr of unknown mages
running around. There could be an organized effor to 'register' all
psionics, whcih can lead to your classic psi corp.

____ Robert A. Hayden <=> hayden@******.mankato.msus.edu
\ /__ -=-=-=-=- <=> -=-=-=-=-
\/ / Finger for Geek Code Info <=> I do not necessarily speak for the
\/ Finger for PGP Public Key <=> City of Mankato or anyone else, dammit
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
(GEEK CODE 2.1) GJ/CM d- H-- s-:++>s-:+ g+ p? au+ a- w++ v* C++(++++) UL++++$
P+>++ L++$ 3- E---- N+++ K+++ W M+ V-- -po+(---)>$ Y++ t+ 5+++
j R+++$ G- tv+ b+ D+ B--- e+>++(*) u** h* f r-->+++ !n y++**
Message no. 5
From: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Psi Recap 2.0
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 1994 14:21:49 +0100
On Sun, 31 Jul 1994, J.D. Falk wrote:

> > 6. The Hacking Pool
>
> I still think it should have a different name. To almost
> everybody, hacking is related to computers.

Well, all it takes of for some techno-geek to christen the act of wining
a power as "hacking a power" and it will stick. Makes a nice historical
writeup too.

> Free-roaming THOUGHTS!? Er, um, no.

*shudder*

No. Critters with PSI maybe (especially dragons), but no free-thoughts.

____ Robert A. Hayden <=> hayden@******.mankato.msus.edu
\ /__ -=-=-=-=- <=> -=-=-=-=-
\/ / Finger for Geek Code Info <=> I do not necessarily speak for the
\/ Finger for PGP Public Key <=> City of Mankato or anyone else, dammit
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
(GEEK CODE 2.1) GJ/CM d- H-- s-:++>s-:+ g+ p? au+ a- w++ v* C++(++++) UL++++$
P+>++ L++$ 3- E---- N+++ K+++ W M+ V-- -po+(---)>$ Y++ t+ 5+++
j R+++$ G- tv+ b+ D+ B--- e+>++(*) u** h* f r-->+++ !n y++**
Message no. 6
From: "J.D. Falk" <jdfalk@****.CAIS.COM>
Subject: Re: Psi Recap 2.0
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 1994 23:08:40 -0400
On Sun, 31 Jul 1994, Robert A. Hayden wrote:

> On Sun, 31 Jul 1994, J.D. Falk wrote:
>
> > > 6. The Hacking Pool
> >
> > I still think it should have a different name. To almost
> > everybody, hacking is related to computers.
>
> Well, all it takes of for some techno-geek to christen the act of wining
> a power as "hacking a power" and it will stick. Makes a nice historical
> writeup too.

And when you use multiple powers to acheive the effect of one
power which you cannot even access through hacking, it's called a
kludge.
Against my better judgement, I'm convinced. *grin*

> > Free-roaming THOUGHTS!? Er, um, no.
>
> *shudder*
>
> No. Critters with PSI maybe (especially dragons), but no free-thoughts.

Another interesting sociological angle -- Dragons aren't part of
the (meta)Human worldmind effect, and therefore not only does every Psi
have an immediate distrust and, sometimes, irrational fear of any dragon,
but psi-active dragons feel the same way about (meta)Human psionics!
Dragons, being vastly intellegent, would be smart enough to know
that they _shouldn't_ dislike Reginald Q. Sampleperson (the guy who
fainted when trying to TK a fishtank a few yards) on sight, so they just
sort of avoid the whole Sampleperson clan.

>>>>>[ Avoid? Restraining order is more like it.
]<<<<<
-Dunklezahn(23:07:56/07-31-54)

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Psi Recap 2.0, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.