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Message no. 1
From: Wordman <wordman@*******.COM>
Subject: The way it was (Re: Ideas...)
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 23:14:15 -0400
>Well.. not sure if I suggested this earlier, so here's an idea. (I'm
>*desperate* to get NERPS back to the way it used to be.)

How did it "used to be"? What made it better than it is now? What can be
done to get it back that way?

Wordman
Message no. 2
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: The way it was (Re: Ideas...)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 12:23:58 +0100
Wordman said on 23:14/28 Jul 98,...

> How did it "used to be"? What made it better than it is now? What can be
> done to get it back that way?

It used to be reasonably busy. Not ever as busy as ShadowRN is
on a day with few posts, but still, more than two posts a month.

The main problem with NERPS, I feel, is that people
underestimate the time it takes to write something after they've
promised it, which is why a lot of the registered submissions
never turn up. We need a project that's interesting enough to
avoid this, IMHO, but it looks like so far we haven't been able to
find one :(

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Hanging on to letting go.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 3
From: Sébas_Cossette
Subject: Re: The way it was (Re: Ideas...)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 17:53:24 -0400
-----Message d'origine-----
De : Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
À : NERPS@********.ITRIBE.NET <NERPS@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Date : mercredi 29 juillet 1998 06:24
Objet : Re: The way it was (Re: Ideas...)


Wordman said on 23:14/28 Jul 98,...

> How did it "used to be"? What made it better than it is now? What can be
> done to get it back that way?

It used to be reasonably busy. Not ever as busy as ShadowRN is
on a day with few posts, but still, more than two posts a month.

The main problem with NERPS, I feel, is that people
underestimate the time it takes to write something after they've
promised it, which is why a lot of the registered submissions
never turn up. We need a project that's interesting enough to
avoid this, IMHO, but it looks like so far we haven't been able to
find one :(

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Hanging on to letting go.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998




Why do I, personnaly, receives that??
I`m just a registered person of the NERPS list!
Message no. 4
From: The Baxters <baxter@******.NET>
Subject: Re: The way it was (Re: Ideas...)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 16:33:42 -0500
> Wordman said on 23:14/28 Jul 98,...
>
> How did it "used to be"? What made it better than it is now? What can
be
> done to get it back that way?

How about making up a list of contacts? If everyone would take a
moment to submit an NPC Contact or perhaps a fixer that could
be used in other people's campaigns.

Or maybe, we could make some small businesses or corps
for different areas?

Just a couple more ideas to throw in the pot. :-)

Termite
baxter@******.net
Message no. 5
From: BigDaddy <bigdaddy@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: The way it was (Re: Ideas...)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 23:20:08 -0400
The Baxters wrote:
>
> > Wordman said on 23:14/28 Jul 98,...
> >
> > How did it "used to be"? What made it better than it is now? What can
> be
> > done to get it back that way?
>
> How about making up a list of contacts? If everyone would take a
> moment to submit an NPC Contact or perhaps a fixer that could
> be used in other people's campaigns.
>
> Or maybe, we could make some small businesses or corps
> for different areas?
>
> Just a couple more ideas to throw in the pot. :-)
>


I like the small business idea I've got a ton o'info from my previous
posts on SRN. All sorts of stats on how to open a business and run it?

anyone interested?
--
Napalm Sticks to Kidz,
BigDaddy
Message no. 6
From: Stephen Esdale <sesdale@******.REDDEN.ON.CA>
Subject: Re: The way it was (Re: Ideas...)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 18:24:32 +0000
> It used to be reasonably busy. Not ever as busy as ShadowRN is
> on a day with few posts, but still, more than two posts a month.
>

What happened to the current project (the guide to Shadowrun World?).
When I was last on the list (in April or March or thereabouts), it
seemed to be still going forward...is it on hold?


Stephen Esdale (sesdale@******.on.ca)

Tho' much is taken, much abides; and tho'
We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven; that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
-- Lord Alfred Tennyson, Ulysses.
Message no. 7
From: Mik & Caroline <legion@******.NET.AU>
Subject: Re: The way it was (Re: Ideas...)
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 09:24:23 +1000
>
> What happened to the current project (the guide to Shadowrun World?).
> When I was last on the list (in April or March or thereabouts), it
> seemed to be still going forward...is it on hold?
>
> Stephen Esdale (sesdale@******.on.ca)


Does any have any NERPS sites??

i mean, is there a homepage specfiaclly for NERPS..

Lets get that site to list the various tyopics, and take it from their

Mik
Message no. 8
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: The way it was (Re: Ideas...)
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 12:15:00 +0100
Mik & Caroline said on 9:24/31 Jul 98,...

> > What happened to the current project (the guide to Shadowrun World?).
> > When I was last on the list (in April or March or thereabouts), it
> > seemed to be still going forward...is it on hold?
> >
> > Stephen Esdale (sesdale@******.on.ca)

The NAGTTW got mor or less shelved simply because almost
nobody seems to be actually writing the articles they promised.

> Does any have any NERPS sites??
>
> i mean, is there a homepage specfiaclly for NERPS..

http://nerps.home.ml.org (which is really a pointer to a site at
Fortune City, so don't get scared when the URL changes).

> Lets get that site to list the various tyopics, and take it from their

Why? We're a mailing list, not a web site -- if you have an idea
for a topic, please post it to the list so we can discuss it. There's
no use in putting it on the WWW if you ask me, as that'll only
mean I have to make another file, start up my browser, upload
the file, and then update the thing regularly...

(I'm not overly fond of the WWW -- I use it when it suits me, like
for putting stuff up for others to download, but I can't see the
point of using it for purposes that other means do a lot better.)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
It's pretty scary.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 9
From: Malcolm Iggleden <m_iggleden@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: The way it was (Re: Ideas...)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 02:09:36 PDT
>
>The Baxters wrote:
>>
>> > Wordman said on 23:14/28 Jul 98,...
>> >
>> > How did it "used to be"? What made it better than it is now? What
can
>> be
>> > done to get it back that way?
>>
>> How about making up a list of contacts? If everyone would take a
>> moment to submit an NPC Contact or perhaps a fixer that could
>> be used in other people's campaigns.
>>
>> Or maybe, we could make some small businesses or corps
>> for different areas?
>>
>> Just a couple more ideas to throw in the pot. :-)
>>
>
>
>I like the small business idea I've got a ton o'info from my previous
>posts on SRN. All sorts of stats on how to open a business and run it?
>
>anyone interested?
>--

I'd be up for something like this, keep the post shorter and more
peolpe will come up with something usable..

Mak

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Message no. 10
From: "Mark A. Imbriaco" <mark.imbriaco@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: The way it was (Re: Ideas...)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 13:13:06 -0400
On Wed, 29 Jul 1998, Gurth wrote:

> The main problem with NERPS, I feel, is that people
> underestimate the time it takes to write something after they've
> promised it, which is why a lot of the registered submissions
> never turn up. We need a project that's interesting enough to
> avoid this, IMHO, but it looks like so far we haven't been able to
> find one :(

That's exactly it, Gurth. The reason that things like The Shadowrun
Supplemental flourish while NERPS is struggling is that NERPS takes on
the task of creating a complete book on a single topic instead of using
the magazine format with articles on various subjects. We need to find
a topic that is going to hold the attention of enough listmembers to get
it done. In hindsight, NAGTTW was probably doomed from the start.

The real trick is figuring out what the right topic should be. I for one
am I big fan of "stuff" books like SSC and so on. How about a NERPS book
on advanced military hardware? It doesn't have to be a large book, and
could easily turn into a series of NERPS books on different types of
"stuff". Thoughts?

-Mark
Message no. 11
From: "Mark J. Steedman" <Mark@******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: The way it was (Re: Ideas...)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 18:24:28 +0000
Mark A. Imbriaco
>
> That's exactly it, Gurth. The reason that things like The Shadowrun
> Supplemental flourish while NERPS is struggling is that NERPS takes on
> the task of creating a complete book on a single topic instead of using
> the magazine format with articles on various subjects. We need to find
> a topic that is going to hold the attention of enough listmembers to get
> it done. In hindsight, NAGTTW was probably doomed from the start.
>
> The real trick is figuring out what the right topic should be. I for one
> am I big fan of "stuff" books like SSC and so on. How about a NERPS book
> on advanced military hardware? It doesn't have to be a large book, and
> could easily turn into a series of NERPS books on different types of
> "stuff". Thoughts?
>
Very much agreed, i am attaching a post i made just before the list
crashed last and the lasdt discussion about this just died at the
bottom.

NERPS does seem to do best on books made up of lots of small things,
particularly the sort of thing were folks can just go and raid their
GM folders and contribute.

Military hardware could work, there is the interest even if you don't
use it all that often, i have once used the cargo plane from Fields
of fire to land a 'friendly little airdrop' on some PC's :)
It would also give a reasonable place to dump a few things discussed
a couple of weeks back on Shadowrn while i was visiting that list (i
just don't have the time most weeks these days to leave that
subscribed).

I could add the real truth behind the 'flying saucers' stuff on my
web page, i just used them as a rumor to give the PC's some
technology they didn't understand going about in a game (to offset
all the badly understood magical goings on) a way to use something
from a truely frightening power league withouth the PC's actually
having to fight the thing (really serious suicide even for the
contents of the Edge runers book), and mentioning edge runners see
comments below, as that completed very quickly (ok it a had a
serious jump start but).

Mark

--------------------------
old post
-------------------------
I have been monitoring this and not adding anything given i never
voluntered to do anything for NAG rest of world.

Wordmans decking idea has its mertits but as i commented there, NEPRS
projects requiring folks to write articles from scratch rather than
collating stuff folks have already written and just have to type up
seem to have problems.

Things i think that might get further (see my comments to Wordmans
post on how i think that could be made to work, possibly as an
addition to make Adams stuff up?) are.

Characters.
NERPS edge runners was very much built from a basis provided before it
actually started in that it added more characters to a set already
about but it was completed very quickley.

I see opportunities here for stuff on opposition, typical corporate
guards (the FASA archtypes are all rather weak (eg SR2 contact), or
poorly designed, i took the newyen spent on some of the example in the
Atzlan book to shadowtech and the stree sams catalogue and came out
with something really mean). Ok we all no doubt design our own guards
but. A more through job could be done even by trying to design guards
for different corps, a big job for one GM but all Ares guards probably
pack the Ares predator for a heavy pistol, but i doubt their friends
at Raku do. Some corps may use expensive looking cyberware (eg like
the Azzie examples use synaptic accelerators when boosted reflexes
froma cost point of veiw do the same for less) because they make them
and therefore can afford to put them in thoer own personnel because
they cost them a fraction of buying in off competitors.

There is always more scope for lower powered runners and gang types as
well, and others. One or two areas have been covered in past NERPS
productions but.
Message no. 12
From: Predator Omega <predator.omega@*******.BAYNET.DE>
Subject: Re: The way it was (Re: Ideas...)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 19:31:06 +0200
Mark A. Imbriaco schrieb:

> I for one
> am I big fan of "stuff" books like SSC and so on. How about a NERPS book
> on advanced military hardware? It doesn't have to be a large book, and
> could easily turn into a series of NERPS books on different types of
> "stuff". Thoughts?

I thought there already was a "Stuff"-projekt, wasn't it? I'd also favour a
project like
this, because if got tons of cyberware and some weapons too. A advanced military book
would be quite the right place to put them in.

Predator

Deutsche Schattenwelten fearless Ring Helper
Deutsche Schattenwelten: http://www.papillon.net/shadow/schattenwelt.html
Predators Datastore: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Alley/3958/
Message no. 13
From: BigDaddy <bigdaddy@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: The way it was (Re: Ideas...)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 13:37:40 -0400
Ma
> On<snip>?
> on advanced military hardware? It doesn't have to be a large book, and
> could easily turn into a series of NERPS books on different types of
> "stuff". Thoughts?
>

ya could easily make hundreds of books on this. Even a military manual
on 2060 warfare and arms.
--
Napalm Sticks to Kidz,
BigDaddy
Message no. 14
From: Predator Omega <predator.omega@*******.BAYNET.DE>
Subject: Re: The way it was (Re: Ideas...)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 12:08:03 +0200
Mark J. Steedman schrieb:

> I could add the real truth behind the 'flying saucers' stuff on my
> web page, i just used them as a rumor to give the PC's some

Where's your page? Could you please post a link to it?

Pred
Message no. 15
From: Erik Jameson <WildSmashr@***.COM>
Subject: Re: The way it was (Re: Ideas...)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 02:17:23 EDT
Okay, I've been lurking long enough.

First of all, the NERPS: Edge Runners book was done so quickly because *I*
wrote or edited most of the thing; even those runners submitted to me went
through a rigourous editing process. This version can be found in AOL's
archives; it eventually turned into the NERPS book now known after additional,
unedited (at least for content) submissions were made to the list.

Second, back when NERPS started out, very few people had their own web site.
There was Paolo's Archive and that was very nearly it. Now, everyone and
their dead grandmother has a web site; many sites are dedicated to Shadowrun.
Now, if I've got some SR ideas, where I am going to put them? In NERPS, or on
my very own dorky web site? (sorry, I think most SR sites are utter crap)

Third, let's be honest. There is no damn excuse for any of you that said you
would submitt something over TWO YEARS AGO!!! and STILL not have submitted
anything. Even Gurth is guilty of this; his long promised Netherlands
submission has never appeared. It's called being lazy, people. A month, a
few months, that's busy. But two years is without excuse. I know Paolo Falco
did his bit, as did I.

Fourth, while a military gear book might be cool, it can also suffer from
rampant munchkinism; yes, they exist even on NERPS. This is the problem in
not having a rigourous editor and editing process more than any fault of any
individual member, munchkin or not.

And fifth, yes, we do suffer from the problem of single concept books; where
TSS can crank out an issue on a regular basis because of it's magazine loose
format style, we have one person not submit something, it can mean disaster
for the entire project.

So what are we going to do? Do we even continue with NERPS? Honestly, I'm
beginning to question if this list still has a reason to live anymore. It's
original purpose was to provide a publishing arena back when there weren't
any. Now, nearly anyone can publish their own SR stuff.

*sigh*

The world guide has to continue.

An additional sourcebook that I would support and contribute to would be an
Edge Runners II. This again would not only be current PCs in play, but
favorite NPCs. All done in the same format as the first one, though edited in
terms of SR3 and any changes to stats there. I would suggest that in ER2, a
note on how to best translate the SR2 PCs from ER1 into SR3 should also be
included. Doesn't have to me more than a few paragraphs at best.

Erik J.
Message no. 16
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: The way it was (Re: Ideas...) (fwd)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 20:38:27 +1000
Okay, folks - Adam asked me to forward this to the list since his ISP is
being flaky right now. Enjoy.

Lady Jestyr

- It's not pretty being easy -
| Elle Holmes | jestyr@**********.com | http://jestyr.home.ml.org |
| Shadowrun Webring Ringmaster | GeoCities Leader | RPGA Reviewer |


---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 1998 04:29:07 -0600
From: Adam J <adamj@*********.html.com>
To: jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
Subject: Re: The way it was (Re: Ideas...)

At 02:17 AM 8/8/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Okay, I've been lurking long enough.

As have I, in this thread, being a list admin. Also, I should point out to
all that Gurth is on vacation in the states, first to Gencon, then to
somebody elses (Tim Kerby's(?)), my place, and finally to Dvixen's, then
back to the Netherlands. In other words, he can't make any official type
rulings for the time being.

>Second, back when NERPS started out, very few people had their own web site.
>There was Paolo's Archive and that was very nearly it. Now, everyone and
>their dead grandmother has a web site; many sites are dedicated to Shadowrun.
>Now, if I've got some SR ideas, where I am going to put them? In NERPS,
or on
>my very own dorky web site? (sorry, I think most SR sites are utter crap)

I'll agree here -- it's damn easy for anyone to self publish themselves
online now. A good portion, I'll agree, is utter crap. No offense to
anyone here who may have a lousy web site, of course ;-)

>Third, let's be honest. There is no damn excuse for any of you that said you
>would submitt something over TWO YEARS AGO!!! and STILL not have submitted
>anything. Even Gurth is guilty of this; his long promised Netherlands
>submission has never appeared. It's called being lazy, people. A month, a
>few months, that's busy. But two years is without excuse. I know Paolo
Falco
>did his bit, as did I.

I'll agree here. Note I didn't agree to submit anything to NAGTTW :-)

>Fourth, while a military gear book might be cool, it can also suffer from
>rampant munchkinism; yes, they exist even on NERPS. This is the problem in
>not having a rigourous editor and editing process more than any fault of any
>individual member, munchkin or not.

Yup. A military gear book is something I don't think all that many people
would find really useful.

I have an idea for how this might be able to rectified, and I'll post it
tommorrow.

>And fifth, yes, we do suffer from the problem of single concept books; where
>TSS can crank out an issue on a regular basis because of it's magazine loose
>format style, we have one person not submit something, it can mean disaster
>for the entire project.

I hate to think that TSS may in some way have led to the current inactivity
of NERPS. :( I do want to point out that the people submitting things to
TSS are a different crowd of people than those that are on NERPS, for the
most part.

>So what are we going to do? Do we even continue with NERPS? Honestly, I'm
>beginning to question if this list still has a reason to live anymore. It's
>original purpose was to provide a publishing arena back when there weren't
>any. Now, nearly anyone can publish their own SR stuff.

Frankly -- Big deal. The "nearly anyone" nearly always produces nearly
useless stuff. NERPS has always produced quality material, and I really
don't want to see that die.

>The world guide has to continue.

I agree. I think we need a *Deadline*. IE -- 6 weeks or so, and then when
that goes by, take what's been submitted, compile that into the NAGTTW,
send a wakeup call to the people who didn't finish their submissions, and
if interest resumes, a NAGTTW II can be compiled.


Putting a book out also gives us a chance to publicize it and the list,
which can bring new people into the fray.

>An additional sourcebook that I would support and contribute to would be an
>Edge Runners II. This again would not only be current PCs in play, but
>favorite NPCs. All done in the same format as the first one, though
edited in
>terms of SR3 and any changes to stats there. I would suggest that in ER2, a
>note on how to best translate the SR2 PCs from ER1 into SR3 should also be
>included. Doesn't have to me more than a few paragraphs at best.

Sounds like a good plan. Personally, Edge Runners was something that I
printed up, read, and it now sits on my shelf unused, but there wasn't
anything wrong with it -- it just doesn't fit into my game.

I don't really want to say much, but I think we'll be able to get NERPS a
bit more exposure than it's had in the past few years within the next
couple months. I need to talk to Gurth about this of course, so I'll
hopefully do that when (if) he stops by my house.

Since Gurth can't do anything while on vacation, NERPS-wise, I hope nobody
minds if I stick my big nose into the forefront here until he gets back.
Being a list-Admin, a friend of Gurths, and a big fan of NERPS, I don't
want NERPS to just sit idle until Gurth gets back.

Tommorrow(1), I'm going to post a list of all the suggestions for upcoming
NERPS books, and then we can go through the pro's and con's of each one,
and perhaps we can have something up and working even before Gurth gets to
my place. (Which will be a nice surprise for him, I'm sure..)

-Adam J
1. This means sometime Saturday, MST, unless I have more hard drive problems..

-
< http://www.interware.it/users/adamj / ICQ# 2350330 / fro@***.ab.ca >
< ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader / TSA Co-Admin / TSS Productions >
< FreeRPG & Shadowrun Webring Admin / The Shadowrun Supplemental >
< The Entity responsible for the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball >
Message no. 17
From: "Mark J. Steedman" <Mark@******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: The way it was (Re: Ideas...) (fwd)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 16:58:30 +0000
Lady Jestyr writes.

> Okay, folks - Adam asked me to forward this to the list since his ISP is
> being flaky right now. Enjoy.
>
> Lady Jestyr
>
ok so this doesn't become too many posts stuff below double commented
is Erik Jameson's post and single is Adam Jurts that Lady Jester
forwarded, will be commenting on both.

> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Adam J <adamj@*********.html.com>

> As have I, in this thread, being a list admin.
Hello there, anyd yes to the newer list members pay attention :)
Now i do seem to be short of Carp these days, i'm sure i stuffed a
spare someplace but i'm sure Adam's got one :)

> >Third, let's be honest. There is no damn excuse for any of you that said you
> I'll agree here. Note I didn't agree to submit anything to NAGTTW :-)
I wonder why i joined that club :)

> >Fourth, while a military gear book might be cool, it can also suffer from
> >rampant munchkinism; yes, they exist even on NERPS. This is the problem in
> >not having a rigourous editor and editing process more than any fault of any
> >individual member, munchkin or not.
> Yup. A military gear book is something I don't think all that many people
> would find really useful.
>
> I have an idea for how this might be able to rectified, and I'll post it
> tommorrow.
fine, also hense my comments earlier on how to make such things
useful, there are plenty things already in SR in a class you
seriously don't want pointed at your character dikoted military
armour or not (and i don't advise that it tend to attract most
interesting visitors) :)

> >So what are we going to do? Do we even continue with NERPS? Honestly, I'm
> >beginning to question if this list still has a reason to live anymore. It's
> >original purpose was to provide a publishing arena back when there weren't
> >any. Now, nearly anyone can publish their own SR stuff.
>
> Frankly -- Big deal. The "nearly anyone" nearly always produces nearly
> useless stuff. NERPS has always produced quality material, and I really
> don't want to see that die.
Yes, i would say my previous comments to players as a GM with regard
to non 'FASA' stuff have tended to run along the lines of, 'Gear and
toys of SR2' thats ok, NERPS is passed, Shadowland, let me check for
munchkinism :(, (supplemental wasn't available to them and in very
early issues when it last matered to me), everything else pretty much
forget it. (there were one or two other things i allowed but
generally NERPS stuff was fairly safe everything else got a pretty
close GM look and 'doctored' before it got in the game)

> Putting a book out also gives us a chance to publicize it and the list,
> which can bring new people into the fray.
Go for it, and thats long enough for Gurth to get back and involved.

> >An additional sourcebook that I would support and contribute to would be an
> >Edge Runners II. This again would not only be current PCs in play, but
> >favorite NPCs. All done in the same format as the first one, though
> edited in
> >terms of SR3 and any changes to stats there. I would suggest that in ER2, a
> >note on how to best translate the SR2 PCs from ER1 into SR3 should also be
> >included. Doesn't have to me more than a few paragraphs at best.
Edge runners was good, i commented before on a version 2, and did
note your primary contirbution though i'm not sure i remembered to
dig your name out to atach to it :(

> Sounds like a good plan. Personally, Edge Runners was something that I
> printed up, read, and it now sits on my shelf unused, but there wasn't
> anything wrong with it -- it just doesn't fit into my game.
The principal problem for most was that although it as intended
provided some decidedly more 'edge' runners than FASA's 'supposed
prime runners target practice' many of the characters were too
strange or powerful for many peoples games. There is a lot more
opportunity though in the middle ground, runners, corp guards, mob
hitters etc that are a lot better than the contacts and archtypes
provided by FASA (which PC's with as little as 50 points of karma or
a shopping trip to fields of fire can walk all over) without getting
into the 'skills 10+ and how many grades of initiation!' league.
Experienced runners, and contacts from the 100-500 or so karma range
(i use karma totals here as a VERY rough power guide, munchkniism and
sensible character design and 'starting form the ganger creation
rules' can also have a huge impact on the real 'power' of characters)
folks that would range from 'competent to - i really don't want to
fight him but could win on a lucky day' compared to a tyical runner.

> Since Gurth can't do anything while on vacation, NERPS-wise, I hope nobody
> minds if I stick my big nose into the forefront here until he gets back.
> Being a list-Admin, a friend of Gurths, and a big fan of NERPS, I don't
> want NERPS to just sit idle until Gurth gets back.
No problem

Mark
http://www.mist77.demon.co.uk/Shadowrun
Message no. 18
From: Predator Omega <predator.omega@*******.BAYNET.DE>
Subject: Re: The way it was (Re: Ideas...)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 02:02:42 +0200
First of all, I try to be careful with what I write. I really DON'T intend to insult
anybody with my comments.

Ok, now for my grain of salt.

In my opinion one of the main problems with the NERPS projects is that nobody ask himself
for whom all the work is done. Ok some of the things we do is for honor. It's nice to read
your name in a NERPS book. But you should ask ourselfs "What is the customer of the
books?".
There are so many different players and GMs around that any kind of editing the works is
senseless. There is no typical player/GM around and all you can do and every effort will
be senseless to some extend. Either the things we offer are too weak or too strong.
E.g. Edge Runner which is are very good produkt. Most of these gys are to weak for my
group, but that's ok. I really enjoied reading it and I itend to use as many as I can in
my campaings.

I'd prefere a kind of classification for all thing, esp. in Stuff-books. Some sort of a
threat-rating for the GMs thats allows them to decide what is acceptable in their
campaings and what is too heavy. I thing the intensive editing we do on the list produces
sometimes very good results, because new ideas improve the thing, but sometimes it kills
the idea because it seems to extrem on the firts look.

Ok, all of you know I give most of the time a high-edn solution or a very revolutionary
high-tec product, but who knows, maby someone kcan make use of it? Not everything is for
the players only and the GMs perhaps need a very storng piece for their NPCs.

All in all the magazin-styl is better, because it does not force a dead-line for a WHOLE
book! In the end we do this in our spare time an I think many people here on the list have
much work to do outside the SR universe and you can't force them do spent the rest of the
precious spare time for the NERPS projects. I fact I always impressed how good the
material is which has already been posted to the list.

I hope NERPS will not die, just because people have homepages. Why not publish one thing
both on the page and in NERPS?

Pred

p.s. I have a urgent problem. I need information about italy in the SR world, esp. about
the military because a run shoudl take place on a army site in italy. Can anybody help me?
URLs, ideas, pictures, everthing?
Thanks!!
Message no. 19
From: Logan Graves <logan1@*****.INTERCOM.NET>
Subject: Re: The way it was (Re: Ideas...)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 10:40:16 -0400
In our last episode, Erik Jameson wrote:

<.000003 MP Deleted>
> An additional sourcebook that I would support and contribute to would
> be an Edge Runners II. This again would not only be current PCs in
> play, but favorite NPCs.

Yes, I have been thinking along similar lines: The "List of NPC's" book
seems the easiest to produce. Although, some would argue that this type
doesn't offer as much substance to GM's.

> All done in the same format as the first one, though edited in terms
> of SR3 and any changes to stats there. I would suggest that in ER2, a
> note on how to best translate the SR2 PCs from ER1 into SR3 should
> also be included. Doesn't have to be more than a few paragraphs at
> best.

I too have been waiting for SR3's release to upload the 2-to-3 stat
conversions onto my page and to upgrade my PC's. FASA will likely
devote a paragraph or two to this, so it shouldn't be too difficult to
come up with something similar for the NERPS book.


Also, I have been semi-unofficially HTMLizing all of the NERPS books,
which Gurth hasn't gotten around to (& a couple which he had, but hadn't
yet uploaded.) I'm currently in the middle of "Lost & Found."

The reason I bring this up is to offer my services on the next book(s).

--Logan
_______________________________________________logan1@*****.intercom.net
Big Knobi Klub, not just another dorky SR website
http://www.intercom.net/user/logan1/bkk.htm
(well, maybe it is ;-)
Message no. 20
From: "Mark A. Imbriaco" <mark.imbriaco@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: The way it was (Re: Ideas...)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 00:58:57 -0400
On Sat, 8 Aug 1998, Erik Jameson wrote:

> Second, back when NERPS started out, very few people had their own web site.
> There was Paolo's Archive and that was very nearly it. Now, everyone and

Mine was there first! :-)

> their dead grandmother has a web site; many sites are dedicated to Shadowrun.
> Now, if I've got some SR ideas, where I am going to put them? In NERPS, or on
> my very own dorky web site? (sorry, I think most SR sites are utter crap)

I tend to agree. The web allows just about anyone to put what they want
online for all to see. Great. Too bad most of the people who decide to
do so know very little about design and layout. Oh well. One of my pet
peeves about 90% of the web -- it's not restricted to SR sites by any
means.

> Third, let's be honest. There is no damn excuse for any of you that said you
> would submitt something over TWO YEARS AGO!!! and STILL not have submitted
> anything. Even Gurth is guilty of this; his long promised Netherlands
> submission has never appeared. It's called being lazy, people. A month, a
> few months, that's busy. But two years is without excuse. I know Paolo Falco
> did his bit, as did I.

You've got to keep in mind that this is a volunteer project, Erik. If
someone says they'll submit something and real life intrudes for a couple
of months, it's real easy to forget about it. I'll agree that at the very
least a note to Gurth saying that you're not going to be submitting after
all would be appropriate -- calling them "lazy" is a bit too far, though.

> Fourth, while a military gear book might be cool, it can also suffer from
> rampant munchkinism; yes, they exist even on NERPS. This is the problem in
> not having a rigourous editor and editing process more than any fault of any
> individual member, munchkin or not.

Indeed. Gurth is supposed to be the rigorous editor. He has veto power
over any entry if it is too munchkinous. The problem with a book like the
one I mentioned, though, is that it might conflict with his very excellent
Plastic Warriors stuff. <shrug> I was just throwing ideas out there to
try and get the conversation going again. Seems I succeeded, FWIW. :-)

[deletia]

> An additional sourcebook that I would support and contribute to would be an
> Edge Runners II. This again would not only be current PCs in play, but
> favorite NPCs. All done in the same format as the first one, though edited in
> terms of SR3 and any changes to stats there. I would suggest that in ER2, a
> note on how to best translate the SR2 PCs from ER1 into SR3 should also be
> included. Doesn't have to me more than a few paragraphs at best.

Indeed. I would absolutely be interested in contributing to an ER2 book,
Erik. ER1 is one of my absolute favorite pieces of source material for
SR. The entries for Lynch and The Whistler are a couple of my personal
favorites. :-)

-Mark
Message no. 21
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: The way it was (Re: Ideas...)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 14:54:51 +0100
Mark A. Imbriaco said on 0:58/10 Aug 98,...

(As I'm only now going through the 102 NERPS posts made
during my absence, I'll be commenting on some really old stuff.
So sue me :)

> I tend to agree. The web allows just about anyone to put what they want
> online for all to see. Great. Too bad most of the people who decide to
> do so know very little about design and layout. Oh well. One of my pet
> peeves about 90% of the web -- it's not restricted to SR sites by any
> means.

I couldn't agree more...

> > Even Gurth is guilty of this; his long promised Netherlands
> > submission has never appeared.

I'm very well aware of this. Call it a form of attention deficit
disorder if you wish -- I start new stuff before the old things are
finished :/

> You've got to keep in mind that this is a volunteer project, Erik. If
> someone says they'll submit something and real life intrudes for a couple
> of months, it's real easy to forget about it. I'll agree that at the very
> least a note to Gurth saying that you're not going to be submitting after
> all would be appropriate -- calling them "lazy" is a bit too far, though.

Agreed. People, if you can't do an article you said you'd write, LET
ME KNOW, either on the list or through personal email. I don't
care for the reason (so you don't have to worry about "If I say I
don't want to write it any longer, it makes me look like a ..."), but
I would like to know _that_ I don't have to count on an article
any longer.

> Indeed. Gurth is supposed to be the rigorous editor.

I am?

> He has veto power
> over any entry if it is too munchkinous.

With NERPS, I don't really have to worry about this. The way I
see NERPS work is like this: somebody posts an article to the list,
the list comments, and the article is modified. Repeat as
necessary until it's deemed appropriate by the list, or until it's
withdrawn by the author. I don't get to veto anything --
everything that gets the list Seal of Approval(tm) goes into the
book it's intended for.

> The problem with a book like the
> one I mentioned, though, is that it might conflict with his very excellent
> Plastic Warriors stuff. <shrug> I was just throwing ideas out there to
> try and get the conversation going again. Seems I succeeded, FWIW. :-)

I'd like to do a military equipment book, and as a matter of fact
I'm busy on a PW book like that. However, it could easily be
turned into a NERPS project if there's enough interest. Also, I
don't see NERPS as conflicting with PW, even if they cover the
same territory at times.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Wanted: New signature line. Good prices paid. LTG# 3111 (856-6006)
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

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