Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: Richard Gaywood <richard.gaywood@**************.OXFORD.AC.UK>
Subject: Loveland
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 13:13:30 +0000
I'm kinds interested in doing some stuff on Loveland, a town in Puyallup.
My current campaign is low-powerd, so I'm concentrating on gangs and
low-level syndicate action. Thus, my PCs all live and work in Loveland
(see Seattle Source, page something).

Can anyone out there tell me anything about Loveland? Does it really
exist, or is it a product of FASA's overactive imagination? Can I obtain
any maps from anywhere? Or do I have even more work to do? ;)

If I actually get around to writing this up formally, as opposed to just
for my own campaign, I plan to do it in a lot of detail - major players in
the area, fixers from downtown who occasionally come by, and so on.

The general idea is that this would be good for novices, as the detail
level provided wouldn't need any more fleshing out (he gulps whilst
considering quantity of work). Additionally, it would allow for good
escvalation - PCs become kings of Loveland, then move on to larger Seattle
scene; then, a long time later, become international. It would also,
hopefully, give the players a good sense of their roots.

Anyway, just though I'd see if anyone could help.

-=R=-
Message no. 2
From: Richard Gaywood <richard.gaywood@**************.OXFORD.AC.UK>
Subject: Loveland (fwd)
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 23:09:28 +0000
I sent this to the list about 10 hours ago, but haven't had any joy. Sorry
if it appears twice.

-=R=-

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 13:13:30 +0000 (GMT)
From: Richard Gaywood <sedm0713@*****.ox.ac.uk>
To: Nerps Mailing list <nerps@********.itribe.net>
Subject: Loveland

I'm kinds interested in doing some stuff on Loveland, a town in Puyallup.
My current campaign is low-powerd, so I'm concentrating on gangs and
low-level syndicate action. Thus, my PCs all live and work in Loveland
(see Seattle Source, page something).

Can anyone out there tell me anything about Loveland? Does it really
exist, or is it a product of FASA's overactive imagination? Can I obtain
any maps from anywhere? Or do I have even more work to do? ;)

If I actually get around to writing this up formally, as opposed to just
for my own campaign, I plan to do it in a lot of detail - major players in
the area, fixers from downtown who occasionally come by, and so on.

The general idea is that this would be good for novices, as the detail
level provided wouldn't need any more fleshing out (he gulps whilst
considering quantity of work). Additionally, it would allow for good
escvalation - PCs become kings of Loveland, then move on to larger Seattle
scene; then, a long time later, become international. It would also,
hopefully, give the players a good sense of their roots.

Anyway, just though I'd see if anyone could help.

-=R=-
Message no. 3
From: "MARTIN E. GOTTHARD" <s457033@*******.GU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Loveland (fwd)
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 10:50:14 +1000
> I sent this to the list about 10 hours ago, but haven't had any joy. Sorry
> if it appears twice.
>

Give us some time. The NERPS list isn't a very high traffic list at the
best of times.

The idea looks good, though it wouldn't suit the group I play(ed) with;
Power escalation is a frighteningly rapid thing.

Marty
Message no. 4
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: Loveland
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 20:38:31 -0700
At 13:13 11/26/97 +0000, you wrote:
>I'm kinds interested in doing some stuff on Loveland, a town in Puyallup.
>My current campaign is low-powerd, so I'm concentrating on gangs and
>low-level syndicate action. Thus, my PCs all live and work in Loveland
>(see Seattle Source, page something).

With Seattle Source 2 due next year, I think this would probably be a bad
idea for part of NAGTTW. I think (Gurth, back me up here?), that we're
concentrating on places that FASA hasn't and isn't likely to publish
something for, so we don't end up contradicting them later.

-Aj

-
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ AdamJ@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
The Shadowrun Archive Co-Maintainer: http://www.interware.it/shadowrun
Message no. 5
From: Richard Gaywood <richard.gaywood@**************.OXFORD.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Loveland
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 08:43:00 +0000
On Wed, 26 Nov 1997, Adam J wrote:
>
> With Seattle Source 2 due next year, I think this would probably be a bad
> idea for part of NAGTTW. I think (Gurth, back me up here?), that we're
> concentrating on places that FASA hasn't and isn't likely to publish
> something for, so we don't end up contradicting them later.
>
> -Aj
>
I wasn't aware of the immenant Seattle II, although it makes sense when I
think about it. Ah well. I'll just have my whole campaign invalidated next
year then ;)

-=R=-
Message no. 6
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: Loveland
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 04:12:53 -0700
At 08:43 11/27/97 +0000, you wrote:

>> With Seattle Source 2 due next year, I think this would probably be a bad
>> idea for part of NAGTTW. I think (Gurth, back me up here?), that we're
>> concentrating on places that FASA hasn't and isn't likely to publish
>> something for, so we don't end up contradicting them later.

>I wasn't aware of the immenant Seattle II, although it makes sense when I
>think about it. Ah well. I'll just have my whole campaign invalidated next
>year then ;)

I think it's due just before or after SR3 comes out next year. Not entirely
sure.. And yes, I imagine it will invalidate a lot of peoples homebrew
games, but I think it's more a product for the new players, so they don't
have to hunt up the original Seattle Source.

If you're a new gamer, what do you want, a new shiny book, or a book from
1990 that looks like it was from 1990? :)

-Adam J

-
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ AdamJ@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
The Shadowrun Archive Co-Maintainer: http://www.interware.it/shadowrun
Message no. 7
From: "Paolo Falco, Explorer" <Falco@****.IT>
Subject: Re: Loveland (fwd)
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 23:20:49 +0100
Richard Gaywood thus did speak about Loveland (fwd):

> I sent this to the list about 10 hours ago, but haven't had any joy. Sorry
> if it appears twice.

I haven't had any joy in these last times either... I wonder if I
should email NERPS twice too :)

Sorry but I couldn't resist...

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Paolo Falco | "Every artist is a cannibal, every poet is a thief
(explorer) | all kill for inspiration and sing about his grief"
--------------------------------------------- U2, "the fly" -------
What do Lemmings have in common with each of us?
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/2717
Message no. 8
From: "Darrell L. Bowman" <bowmandl@*****.DHR.STATE.NC.US>
Subject: Re: Loveland
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 09:07:50 +0000
On 26 Nov 97 at 20:38, Adam J wrote:

> With Seattle Source 2 due next year, I think this would probably be a bad
> idea for part of NAGTTW. I think (Gurth, back me up here?), that we're
> concentrating on places that FASA hasn't and isn't likely to publish
> something for, so we don't end up contradicting them later.

Oh??? Seattle 2? So, how do we find out what is being worked on by
FASA? I don't think their web page is up to date.

---
Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who
do not.
-- Anonymous


Excalibur
Darrell Bowman
bowmandl@*****.dhr.state.nc.us
Message no. 9
From: Les Ward <lward@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Loveland
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 11:37:22 -0500
>On 26 Nov 97 at 20:38, Adam J wrote:
>Oh??? Seattle 2? So, how do we find out what is being worked on by
>FASA? I don't think their web page is up to date.

I try to keep on top of things in my ShadowFAQ page's product list.

http://pobox.com/~wordman/ShadowFAQ.html

The product list itself is

http://pobox.com/~wordman/ShadowFAQ/Products.html

Wordman
Message no. 10
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: Loveland
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 12:46:31 -0700
At 09:07 12/10/97 +0000, you wrote:

>Oh??? Seattle 2? So, how do we find out what is being worked on by
>FASA? I don't think their web page is up to date.

Knowing most of FASA's really active free-lancers helps.. (God, I love the
net.)

And the web page is never really up to date, especially to the SR section.

-Adam J

-
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ AdamJ@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
The Shadowrun Archive Co-Maintainer: http://www.interware.it/shadowrun
Message no. 11
From: "Darrell L. Bowman" <bowmandl@*****.DHR.STATE.NC.US>
Subject: Re: Loveland
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 23:07:18 +0000
On 10 Dec 97 at 12:46, Adam J wrote:

> At 09:07 12/10/97 +0000, you wrote:
>
> >Oh??? Seattle 2? So, how do we find out what is being worked on by
> >FASA? I don't think their web page is up to date.
>
> Knowing most of FASA's really active free-lancers helps.. (God, I love the
> net.)

Hehe.. Don't know many, but Brian Schoner is in my PBEM game. Talked
with Paul Hume a couple times in the FIDO RECFRP echo.

> And the web page is never really up to date, especially to the SR section.

I know, and that's a damn shame. For a company that seems to NOT mind
net presences of their products, it'd be nice if they would keep
their web page up to date.
---
Hello. My name is Inego Montoya.
You killed my father.
Prepare to die.
-- Inego, from The Princess Bride


Excalibur
Darrell Bowman
bowmandl@*****.dhr.state.nc.us
Message no. 12
From: The Bookworm <Thomas.M.Price@*******.EDU>
Subject: Re: Loveland
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 11:32:59 -0600
On Sat, 13 Dec 1997, Darrell L. Bowman wrote:
> On 10 Dec 97 at 12:46, Adam J wrote:
> > And the web page is never really up to date, especially to the SR section.
> I know, and that's a damn shame. For a company that seems to NOT mind
> net presences of their products, it'd be nice if they would keep
> their web page up to date.

IIRC from the Q&A at GenCon the main problem with that is FASA
doesnt have a full time webguru. The web page is updated in the spare
time by Lou ---(Guy in charge of EarthDawn) with whatever the other
people have given him to put up. So you A) need to have the staff get
something together to put up on the page (in between editing novels,
playtesting, writing sourcebooks, going to cons, ect). B) Remeber to give
it to him where he cant lose it:)(atleast i know im good at losing things)
and C) Have him find "Copious Free Time" to update the page while
keeping Earthdawn alive.
Part of the reason the BTech side of FASA's page is updated more
often is that a good part of it is FAN generated Timelines. They
condenced hints from all over the sourcebooks and novels. Its harder to
do something like that for Shadowrun when we only have 60 years of future
history and Btech has ~1060 years.
So i gues the challenge is what can we as fans do that is from
official sources and usufull to gamers but doesnt cut to much into the
sales of sourcebooks. ie why would you buy Threats when you can get a
sanopses(sp?) on FASAs own web site...

Thomas Price
aka The Bookworm
thomas.m.price@*******.edu
tmprice@***********.com
Message no. 13
From: Timothy Teravainen <p042668b@**.SEFLIN.ORG>
Subject: Re: Loveland
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 17:27:37 -0500
Just out of curiosity, does anyone know how much "Neo-Anarchist's
Guide to the Sixth World" cut into the sales of "Awakenings: New Magic in
205x"? I know I enjoyed that text file, but haven't seen it repeated
again; I am assuming that it was, actually, a legitimate FASA release.

Timothy Teravainen
- p042668b@**.seflin.org

On Mon, 15 Dec 1997, The Bookworm wrote:

> So i gues the challenge is what can we as fans do that is from
> official sources and usufull to gamers but doesnt cut to much into the
> sales of sourcebooks. ie why would you buy Threats when you can get a
> sanopses(sp?) on FASAs own web site...
>
> Thomas Price
> aka The Bookworm
> thomas.m.price@*******.edu
> tmprice@***********.com
>
Message no. 14
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Loveland
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 12:45:37 +0100
Timothy Teravainen said on 17:27/15 Dec 97...

> Just out of curiosity, does anyone know how much "Neo-Anarchist's
> Guide to the Sixth World"

That's a name I haven't heard for that file before... :) We used to call
it the Neo-A Guide to Magic or to the Awakened (NAGM or NAGA).

> cut into the sales of "Awakenings: New Magic in 205x"? I know I enjoyed
> that text file, but haven't seen it repeated again; I am assuming that
> it was, actually, a legitimate FASA release.

I don't know the answers to either question, but I think it didn't really
bring down sales of Awakenings -- AFAIK most people who had a copy of the
NAGM also bought Awakenings (at least, I did) simply because there's a lot
more in Awakenings than in the NAGM. As for why it was released, from what
I heard it was a playtest release that got all over the place instead of
staying at AOL (or wherever it was supposed to be).

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
My mind is numb but my mouth's okay.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 15
From: El Bandit <ElBandit@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Loveland
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 07:30:53 EST
In a message dated 97-12-13 23:26:07 EST, you write:

<< I know, and that's a damn shame. For a company that seems to NOT mind
net presences of their products, it'd be nice if they would keep
their web page up to date. >>

Unfortunetely FASA does not have a dedicate HTML author, so they update the
page when they are not trying to get their sourcebooks finished.
Message no. 16
From: Timothy Teravainen <p042668b@**.SEFLIN.ORG>
Subject: Re: Loveland
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 09:52:25 -0500
On Tue, 16 Dec 1997, Gurth wrote:

> Timothy Teravainen said on 17:27/15 Dec 97...
>
> > Just out of curiosity, does anyone know how much "Neo-Anarchist's
> > Guide to the Sixth World"
>
> That's a name I haven't heard for that file before... :) We used to call
> it the Neo-A Guide to Magic or to the Awakened (NAGM or NAGA).
>
That's it; I knew I forgot it.

> > cut into the sales of "Awakenings: New Magic in 205x"? I know I
enjoyed
> > that text file, but haven't seen it repeated again; I am assuming that
> > it was, actually, a legitimate FASA release.
>
> I don't know the answers to either question, but I think it didn't really
> bring down sales of Awakenings -- AFAIK most people who had a copy of the
> NAGM also bought Awakenings (at least, I did) simply because there's a lot
> more in Awakenings than in the NAGM. As for why it was released, from what
> I heard it was a playtest release that got all over the place instead of
> staying at AOL (or wherever it was supposed to be).
>
So, why don't they do that more often? It's a great way to get
material and comments without paying anyone. It sort of benefits
everyone, although it does kind of exploit the gamer, by charging $20+
for something that they basically wrote themselves.

> --
> Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
> My mind is numb but my mouth's okay.
> -> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
> -> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
> -> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-
>
> -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
> Version 3.1:
> GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
> Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
> ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
>
Message no. 17
From: "Darrell L. Bowman" <bowmandl@*****.DHR.STATE.NC.US>
Subject: Re: Loveland
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 16:11:38 +0000
On 16 Dec 97 at 7:30, El Bandit wrote:

> Unfortunetely FASA does not have a dedicate HTML author, so they update the
> page when they are not trying to get their sourcebooks finished.

See my previous message re: outsourcing web authoring.

---
Hey, I've got a suggestion where I could send that drone!
But it wouldn't fit.
-- Raven
Message no. 18
From: "Darrell L. Bowman" <bowmandl@*****.DHR.STATE.NC.US>
Subject: Re: Loveland
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 16:11:38 +0000
On 15 Dec 97 at 11:32, The Bookworm wrote:

> IIRC from the Q&A at GenCon the main problem with that is FASA
> doesnt have a full time webguru. The web page is updated in the spare
> time by Lou ---(Guy in charge of EarthDawn) with whatever the other
> people have given him to put up. So you A) need to have the staff get
> something together to put up on the page (in between editing novels,
> playtesting, writing sourcebooks, going to cons, ect). B) Remeber to give
> it to him where he cant lose it:)(atleast i know im good at losing things)
> and C) Have him find "Copious Free Time" to update the page while
> keeping Earthdawn alive.

I can understand that,.. but on the other hand, there are plenty of
people out there that "do web pages" So, why not give the material to
an outside source to update the page. I mean, it'd be nice to see an
updated order form, what's available and what's out of print. Maybe
even some links to or sources for out of print material. How about
"what's coming up"? I don't get the impression that "that" part of
the page is updated on a regular basis. If you ain't got time to do
it "in-house" then out-source it.

> So i gues the challenge is what can we as fans do that is from
> official sources and usufull to gamers but doesnt cut to much into the
> sales of sourcebooks. ie why would you buy Threats when you can get a
> sanopses(sp?) on FASAs own web site...

Well, I don't want to see them give their stuff away over the net,
Don't want "all" the material, just a bit more info. Like, is there
really a France sourcebook? Even if it is only sold in Europe? I
heard talk about it here... Is there really going to be a new Seattle
sourcebook? heard about it here.. I mean, when Rigger 2 was going to
be late, it'd been nice if in November when the book couldn't be
found that the release date on the web page wouldn't have said
October. (or was is September?)

What can we do? Hell, would they take anything from us? I wasn't
aware that they did (ie the BT stuff). How about they post some
submission guidelines for the web page (or are they there in the
submissions stuff, since I've not tried to submit "work" to them,
I've not read it). I'm just looking for information, and I've got a
friend who would LOVE to have their web business if they'd consider
out-sourcing it.
---
That which does not kill me, pisses me off.
-- Smilin' Jack
Message no. 19
From: Sasquatch <ab130f92@*******.ADELPHI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Loveland
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 19:13:47 -0500
At 16:11 12/27/97 +0000, you wrote:
[SNIP]

I'm just looking for information, and I've got a
>friend who would LOVE to have their web business if they'd consider
>out-sourcing it.

You're friend's not the only one. My company could always use another client.



Sasquatch

---------------------------------------------------------------------
| |
| Vidi, vici, veni |
| (Figure that one out.) |
| |
| ab130f92@*******.adelphi.edu |
| tech@*******.adelphi.edu blair@*****.adelphi.edu |
| No Website (No time to make one) |
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 20
From: George H Metz <wolfstar@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Loveland
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 08:53:22 -0400
On Sat, 27 Dec 1997 16:11:38 +0000 "Darrell L. Bowman"
<bowmandl@*****.DHR.STATE.NC.US> writes:

<Snip Web Page Stuff>

>I can understand that,.. but on the other hand, there are plenty of
>people out there that "do web pages" So, why not give the material to
>an outside source to update the page. I mean, it'd be nice to see an
>updated order form, what's available and what's out of print. Maybe
>even some links to or sources for out of print material. How about
>"what's coming up"? I don't get the impression that "that" part of
>the page is updated on a regular basis. If you ain't got time to do
>it "in-house" then out-source it.

Bear a few things in mind on this one. Number one, out-sourcing the web
page management is only going to remove about a third of the lag.
Normally it would be half, but you've also got to remember that
procrastination on the part of the submitter is easier when you don't see
the guy you have to give it to every day. Number two, you seem to be
under the mistaken impression that they can afford it easily. If there's
one thing I've learned by talking to people in the RPG Design Community,
it's this: You do NOT go into this line of business to get rich. On
average, you need to sell between 65% and 75% of a print run of any given
book to break even, depending on the size of the print run. FASA makes
money, but for the most part they've got to reinvest it back into the
game. They'd infinitely prefer, no doubt, to hire a webguy in house, but
they simply can't afford it.
So, until one of us who knows HTML like the back of our hand and happens
to love SR - or any FASA product - hits the lottery and provides the
service free of charge, we'll probably have to suffer with it.

--
Wolfstar - wolfstar@****.com - Home Page Under Construction!

Some people simply are a waste of space on the buttocks of humanity.
-- Avenger

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1
GAT/! d- s+:+ a-- C++(++++)>$ U+ P? L>++ E? W++(--) N- o? K- w(--) O>+ M
!V PS+ PE+ Y+ PGP t+ 5+++ X R++ tv+ b+(+++) DI++ D--- G e h!-- r*
y+/-(--)
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 21
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Loveland
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 22:31:11 -0500
At 04:11 PM 12/27/97 +0000, Darrell L. Bowman wrote these timeless words:

>I can understand that,.. but on the other hand, there are plenty of
>people out there that "do web pages" So, why not give the material to
>an outside source to update the page. I mean, it'd be nice to see an
>updated order form, what's available and what's out of print. Maybe
>even some links to or sources for out of print material. How about
>"what's coming up"? I don't get the impression that "that" part of
>the page is updated on a regular basis. If you ain't got time to do
>it "in-house" then out-source it.
>
The problem with getting an Outside person to do it is that it can be very
costly. Hell, I realize that most of us would be willing to do this stuff
for Free (I believe Dvixen even Offered to do the job at Gen Con), but
there are legalities involved there, and certain inherant dangers in
letting an outside source whom you aren;t very familiar with have access to
your net Passwords and stuff...

Plus, It's a matter of what "preview" type stuff needs to get out... Mike
Mulvhill usually writes any Preview Stuff for SR anyways, in his ever so
ample time <grin>.

>Well, I don't want to see them give their stuff away over the net,
>Don't want "all" the material, just a bit more info. Like, is there
>really a France sourcebook? Even if it is only sold in Europe?
>
Good question... But if they advertised the book via their web page, they
would get lots of people mailing them looking for copies... And No, it
wouldn't matter how many times they stated on the page in really big bold
flashing letters that it is not available through them, they'd STILL have
people e-mailing them, or worse, calling them, looking for it...

Plus, I don;t think FASA Really has a whole lot of control over those
books... Most of that is done through someone in Europe, IIRC, a company
that's slightly affiliated with FASA, but even Mike M. and the crew
probably don;t know what all is in those books, outside of getting a copy
or two to have in the office (IF they get that).

> I
>heard talk about it here... Is there really going to be a new Seattle
>sourcebook?
>
Yes, but Seattle Two isn;t slated till sometime mid to late next year...
Mostly it's planned as a release to coincide with SR3 next August... No
planned release date on it, and the book isn;t even written yet. I know
Steve Kenson is writing a draft of it as a proposal, and chances are good
he'll get to do the final book, but i don;t even think he's 100% positive
that the project will be his... The only reason any of us even know about
Seattle 2 is from Gen Con and from Steve K. mentioning it on the Shadowrn
list once...

A lot of what gets talked about is more rumour than anything else...
Sometimes we have confirmation of a planned release (Like SR3 and Seattle
2), but there are a lot of books that FASA has said they'd like to do (Redo
the Paranormals books, for one), but those aren;t a positive release.
Plus, actual release dates aren;t always set.

>heard about it here.. I mean, when Rigger 2 was going to
>be late, it'd been nice if in November when the book couldn't be
>found that the release date on the web page wouldn't have said
>October. (or was is September?)
>
Another problem here, especially with the web page, is that A) Lou
Prosperi isn;t real heavily involved with SR. He has the Earthdawn line to
deal with and run. B) Shipping isn;t even something dealt with by Mike M
or the SR Staff. And C) Sometimes release stuff gets delayed by the
distributor, NOT by FASA. We had firm word from Mike M. that RIgger 2 was
supposed to be shipped a month prior to it's actual shipping date. Hell,
even he expected it to ship then, but the FASA shipping department and
printing delayed it for some reason (A problem with colors in the color
plates, I think). Then, the Distributors delayed it for over a week...

But I agree... their release dates have a bad tendancy to get screwed up...

Also, the Card Game threw everything out of whack, as that ended up taking
up more time and effort to get it out than was originally thought... Early
this year, Rigger 2 was planned as a Gen Con premier (Well, It still kinda
premeired there... Mike teased us with the manuscript :)).

>What can we do? Hell, would they take anything from us? I wasn't
>aware that they did (ie the BT stuff). How about they post some
>submission guidelines for the web page (or are they there in the
>submissions stuff, since I've not tried to submit "work" to them,
>I've not read it). I'm just looking for information, and I've got a
>friend who would LOVE to have their web business if they'd consider
>out-sourcing it.
>
The submsission guidelinews for writing a product are on the web page
somewhere (Or at least, they were 6 months ago... I haven;t checked since
I got a pronted copy:)).

As far as out sourcing... Write to them. Suggest it, have your friend
make them an offer... Who knows, maybe they will agree to do it... <shrug>

Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka Chaos, aka a lot of others! :]

The Offical Cuddly Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome and Archive
Answer Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
---- in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
NEW!!!! UIN: 6460938

"Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you
please."
-- Mark Twain
Message no. 22
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Loveland
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 12:54:26 +0100
Bull said on 22:31/27 Dec 97...

> The problem with getting an Outside person to do it is that it can be very
> costly. Hell, I realize that most of us would be willing to do this stuff
> for Free (I believe Dvixen even Offered to do the job at Gen Con), but
> there are legalities involved there, and certain inherant dangers in
> letting an outside source whom you aren;t very familiar with have access to
> your net Passwords and stuff...

If that's the reason, it once again proves FASA knows very little about
computers...

> Good question... But if they advertised the book via their web page, they
> would get lots of people mailing them looking for copies... And No, it
> wouldn't matter how many times they stated on the page in really big bold
> flashing letters that it is not available through them, they'd STILL have
> people e-mailing them, or worse, calling them, looking for it...

Most likely true, yes.

> Yes, but Seattle Two isn;t slated till sometime mid to late next year...
> Mostly it's planned as a release to coincide with SR3 next August... No
> planned release date on it, and the book isn;t even written yet. I know
> Steve Kenson is writing a draft of it as a proposal, and chances are good
> he'll get to do the final book, but i don;t even think he's 100% positive
> that the project will be his... The only reason any of us even know about
> Seattle 2 is from Gen Con and from Steve K. mentioning it on the Shadowrn
> list once...

Erm, Bull, Steve posted on ShadowRN a few days or so ago that he'd sent
the 100,000-word first draft of the new Seattle Sourcebook to FASA... I
thought deckers were supposed to be up-to-date on the latest paydata? :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
There are two things you can do...
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 23
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Loveland
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 15:59:17 -0500
At 12:54 PM 12/28/97 +0100, Gurth wrote these timeless words:
>Bull said on 22:31/27 Dec 97...
>
>> The problem with getting an Outside person to do it is that it can be very
>> costly. Hell, I realize that most of us would be willing to do this stuff
>> for Free (I believe Dvixen even Offered to do the job at Gen Con), but
>> there are legalities involved there, and certain inherant dangers in
>> letting an outside source whom you aren;t very familiar with have access to
>> your net Passwords and stuff...
>
>If that's the reason, it once again proves FASA knows very little about
>computers...
>
That's exactly the problem :]

>> Yes, but Seattle Two isn;t slated till sometime mid to late next year...
>> Mostly it's planned as a release to coincide with SR3 next August... No
>> planned release date on it, and the book isn;t even written yet. I know
>> Steve Kenson is writing a draft of it as a proposal, and chances are good
>> he'll get to do the final book, but i don;t even think he's 100% positive
>> that the project will be his... The only reason any of us even know about
>> Seattle 2 is from Gen Con and from Steve K. mentioning it on the Shadowrn
>> list once...
>
>Erm, Bull, Steve posted on ShadowRN a few days or so ago that he'd sent
>the 100,000-word first draft of the new Seattle Sourcebook to FASA... I
>thought deckers were supposed to be up-to-date on the latest paydata? :)
>
Bah... Like I pay attention to this stuff :]

But now that I think about it, You're right... He did say that... Last I
remembered he was still writing his proposal...

Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka Chaos, aka a lot of others! :]

The Offical Cuddly Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome and Archive
Answer Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
---- in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
NEW!!!! UIN: 6460938

"Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you
please."
-- Mark Twain
Message no. 24
From: "Darrell L. Bowman" <bowmandl@*****.DHR.STATE.NC.US>
Subject: Re: Loveland
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 00:08:04 +0000
On 27 Dec 97 at 22:31, Bull wrote:

> The submsission guidelinews for writing a product are on the web page
> somewhere (Or at least, they were 6 months ago... I haven;t checked since
> I got a pronted copy:)).
>
> As far as out sourcing... Write to them. Suggest it, have your friend
> make them an offer... Who knows, maybe they will agree to do it... <shrug>

That's actually a good idea, and I think I'll suggest it to him,...
all they can do is say no..
---
Raven!, Get that fraggin' skimmer outta' my face!
-- Brick
Message no. 25
From: "Darrell L. Bowman" <bowmandl@*****.DHR.STATE.NC.US>
Subject: Re: Loveland
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 00:20:17 +0000
On 28 Dec 97 at 12:54, Gurth wrote:

> > Yes, but Seattle Two isn;t slated till sometime mid to late next year...
> > Mostly it's planned as a release to coincide with SR3 next August... No
> > planned release date on it, and the book isn;t even written yet. I know
> > Steve Kenson is writing a draft of it as a proposal, and chances are good
> > he'll get to do the final book, but i don;t even think he's 100% positive
> > that the project will be his... The only reason any of us even know about
> > Seattle 2 is from Gen Con and from Steve K. mentioning it on the Shadowrn
> > list once...
>
> Erm, Bull, Steve posted on ShadowRN a few days or so ago that he'd sent
> the 100,000-word first draft of the new Seattle Sourcebook to FASA... I
> thought deckers were supposed to be up-to-date on the latest paydata? :)

Hehehe... ROTFLMAO at Bull.....


---
With the first link, a chain is forged. The first speech censured,
the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all
irrevocably.
-- Captain Picard, Star Trek - TNG: The Drumhead


Raven,
Irish Elven Rigger with an Attitude

Excalibur
Darrell Bowman
bowmandl@*****.dhr.state.nc.us
http://sara.cas.nwu.edu/~arch/kos_rule.htm
UIN 1117228
Message no. 26
From: "Darrell L. Bowman" <bowmandl@*****.DHR.STATE.NC.US>
Subject: Re: Loveland
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 20:51:11 +0000
On 16 Oct 97 at 8:53, George H Metz wrote:

> Bear a few things in mind on this one. Number one, out-sourcing the web
> page management is only going to remove about a third of the lag.
> Normally it would be half, but you've also got to remember that
> procrastination on the part of the submitter is easier when you don't see
> the guy you have to give it to every day. Number two, you seem to be

Hmmm.. that would come under the heading of accountability.

> under the mistaken impression that they can afford it easily. If there's
> one thing I've learned by talking to people in the RPG Design Community,
> it's this: You do NOT go into this line of business to get rich. On
> average, you need to sell between 65% and 75% of a print run of any given
> book to break even, depending on the size of the print run. FASA makes
> money, but for the most part they've got to reinvest it back into the
> game. They'd infinitely prefer, no doubt, to hire a webguy in house, but
> they simply can't afford it.

If you're gonna' put up a page, maintain it. It's as simple as that.
If you can't afford to maintain it, then take it down. I like to see
their page, but I'd rather have no page to look at instead of one
that is out of date all the time.

> So, until one of us who knows HTML like the back of our hand and happens
> to love SR - or any FASA product - hits the lottery and provides the
> service free of charge, we'll probably have to suffer with it.

Well, I know somebody that might do that... but, as far as delays and
stuff, if they make the commitment to keep the page up, then there
should be deadlines set and met, that's the accountability part I
mentioned. I know that things happen, things are late, etc. etc.
drekcetera, but like I said, if you put it up, maintain it, or take
it down.
---
Okay, one shot means that Lone Star is coming.
Multiple shots means that Lone Star is coming,
but they didn't spot me first...
-- Smilin' Jack.


Raven,
Irish Elven Rigger with an Attitude

Excalibur
Darrell Bowman
bowmandl@*****.dhr.state.nc.us
http://sara.cas.nwu.edu/~arch/kos_rule.htm
UIN 1117228

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Loveland, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!