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Message no. 1
From: Predator Omega <ba1764@*******.BAYNET.DE>
Subject: NERPS (Stuff) cloaking device
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 00:38:54 +0100
Hi chummers!

I need your help on the project I'm working on right now.

I'd like to create a device that allows the user to hide himself, like a
Bandersnatch does with the Adaptive Coloration power. The only thing is
I don't really know how to do it.

The first thing I thought of was a kind of field that changes the
EM-fields arounf the body of the user, creating a kind of negative field
that negates the em-emission of the body, e.g the light reflected by a
person.

What do you think about it?
Any other ideas?

Thanks for your help
Predator
Message no. 2
From: Dragon Claw <DragonC147@***.COM>
Subject: Re: NERPS (Stuff) cloaking device
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 18:41:07 EST
In a message dated 98-02-15 18:39:45 EST, you write:

<< Hi chummers!

I need your help on the project I'm working on right now.

I'd like to create a device that allows the user to hide himself, like a
Bandersnatch does with the Adaptive Coloration power. The only thing is
I don't really know how to do it.

The first thing I thought of was a kind of field that changes the
EM-fields arounf the body of the user, creating a kind of negative field
that negates the em-emission of the body, e.g the light reflected by a
person.

What do you think about it?
Any other ideas?

Thanks for your help
Predator >>

Well you could always use magic.

Dragon Claw
Message no. 3
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: NERPS (Stuff) cloaking device
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 16:43:03 -0700
Predator Omega wrote:
/
/ Hi chummers!
/
/ I need your help on the project I'm working on right now.
/
/ I'd like to create a device that allows the user to hide himself, like a
/ Bandersnatch does with the Adaptive Coloration power. The only thing is
/ I don't really know how to do it.

Check out Ruthenium Polymer in Shadow Tech.

-David
--
"By the way, this may look like a slab of liver
but it's an external brain pack."
- Ratbert
--
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
Message no. 4
From: Predator Omega <ba1764@*******.BAYNET.DE>
Subject: Re: NERPS (Stuff) cloaking device
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 00:55:59 +0100
David Buehrer schrieb:
>
> Check out Ruthenium Polymer in Shadow Tech.
>
> -David

Yes, I know RP, thanks. But I'm thinking of another solution.
Kind of energy-field-something...

Pred
Message no. 5
From: Predator Omega <ba1764@*******.BAYNET.DE>
Subject: Re: NERPS (Stuff) cloaking device
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 00:56:57 +0100
Dragon Claw schrieb:
>
> Well you could always use magic.
>
> Dragon Claw

This would be a way, of course, but I'd like to have a non-magic
solution.

But thanks anyway.

Pred
Message no. 6
From: "M. Sean Martinez" <ElBandit@***.COM>
Subject: Re: NERPS (Stuff) cloaking device
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 19:07:49 EST
In a message dated 2/15/98 6:56:14 PM Eastern Standard Time,
ba1764@*******.BAYNET.DE writes:

> Yes, I know RP, thanks. But I'm thinking of another solution.
> Kind of energy-field-something...

Can't see it chummer <g>

High Energy Fields are usually detrimental to the health of the (meta)humans.

-Bandit
Message no. 7
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: NERPS (Stuff) cloaking device
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 17:14:24 -0700
Predator Omega wrote:
/
/ David Buehrer schrieb:
/ >
/ > Check out Ruthenium Polymer in Shadow Tech.
/ >
/ > -David
/
/ Yes, I know RP, thanks. But I'm thinking of another solution.
/ Kind of energy-field-something...

Hm... Gravitic fields and magnetic fields are the only one's I can
think of. However, the power involved would be enourmous (IMHO).
And the technology opens up a huge can of worms (rail gun technology
in a pistol).

-David
--
"By the way, this may look like a slab of liver
but it's an external brain pack."
- Ratbert
--
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
Message no. 8
From: Dragon Claw <DragonC147@***.COM>
Subject: Re: NERPS (Stuff) cloaking device
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 18:58:38 EST
In a message dated 98-02-15 18:57:21 EST, you write:

<< This would be a way, of course, but I'd like to have a non-magic
solution.
>>
Well as far as i know there is no way of making a cloaking device not using
magic, or the stuff the other guy was talking about. No electronical
distortion will work, cause even if it does it will be noticed.

Dragon Claw
Message no. 9
From: Kristling Ravenwing <kristling@*******.CROSSWINDS.NET>
Subject: Re: NERPS (Stuff) cloaking device
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 21:20:30 -0500
> From: M. Sean Martinez <ElBandit@***.COM>
> In a message dated 2/15/98 6:56:14 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> ba1764@*******.BAYNET.DE writes:
>
> > Yes, I know RP, thanks. But I'm thinking of another solution.
> > Kind of energy-field-something...
>
> Can't see it chummer <g>
>
> High Energy Fields are usually detrimental to the health of the
(meta)humans.
>
As seen in the babylon 5 Pilot.
And stop the big babylon five exposition before you start. I don't think
Gurth, for example, isup to what we NA people are.
Message no. 10
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: NERPS (Stuff) cloaking device
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 10:19:52 +0100
Kristling Ravenwing said on 21:20/15 Feb 98...

> As seen in the babylon 5 Pilot.
> And stop the big babylon five exposition before you start. I don't think
> Gurth, for example, isup to what we NA people are.

I haven't seen anything after about half-way through 3rd season; the
changeling net (that was the name, IIRC) is from the pilot, as you said.

As for an answer to the original question, IMHO ruthenium polymers or
magic are the way to go here, even though Predator Omega said he didn't
want to use those. I feel SR tech isn't really up to creating something
like this using energy fields.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
That's just fine.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 11
From: Kristling Ravenwing <kristling@*******.CROSSWINDS.NET>
Subject: Re: NERPS (Stuff) cloaking device
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 05:17:57 -0500
> From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
> To: NERPS@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: NERPS (Stuff) cloaking device
> Date: Monday, February 16, 1998 4:19 AM
>
> Kristling Ravenwing said on 21:20/15 Feb 98...
>
> > As seen in the babylon 5 Pilot.
> > And stop the big babylon five exposition before you start. I don't think
> > Gurth, for example, isup to what we NA people are.
>
> I haven't seen anything after about half-way through 3rd season; the
> changeling net (that was the name, IIRC) is from the pilot, as you said.
>
> As for an answer to the original question, IMHO ruthenium polymers or
> magic are the way to go here, even though Predator Omega said he didn't
> want to use those. I feel SR tech isn't really up to creating something
> like this using energy fields.
>
Agreed. If you were to be an odd ball and set a campaign near the peak of the
awakening, I'd say it would be a POSSIBLITY. I did this once, actual, with
interesting results.
Message no. 12
From: "Leszek Karlik, aka Mike" <trrkt@*****.ONET.PL>
Subject: Re: NERPS (Stuff) cloaking device
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 14:23:46 +0000
On 16 Feb 02, Predator Omega disseminated foul capitalist propaganda
by writing:

<snip>
> The first thing I thought of was a kind of field that changes the
> EM-fields arounf the body of the user, creating a kind of negative
> field that negates the em-emission of the body, e.g the light
> reflected by a person.
>
> What do you think about it?

Why don't you create personal force fields while we're at it?

The only feasible way of doing it is IMHO very fast, adaptive
camouflage - that is, ruthenium polymers from Shadowtech.

Sorry...

;>


Leszek Karlik, aka Mike - trrkt@*****.onet.pl; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike;
Amber fan and Star Wars junkie; UIN 6947998; WTF TKD; FIAWOL; YMMV; IMAO; SNAFU; TANJ
Geek Code v3.1 GL/O d- s+: a19 C+++ W-(++) N+++ K? w(---) O@ M- PS+(+++) PE Y+
PGP- !t--- 5+(-) X- R*+++>$ tv-- b++++ D+ G-- e h--*! !r-- !y-*
Vote for unilateral withdrawal! (It'll solve the population problem!)
Message no. 13
From: Predator Omega <ba1764@*******.BAYNET.DE>
Subject: Re: NERPS (Stuff) cloaking device
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 18:01:09 +0100
>
> Why don't you create personal force fields while we're at it?

Hmm, good idea, what about a levl 20 bullet barrier, for let's say 10K
Nuyen, lasting for 2-3 years...
:-)

ok this was a joke...
>
> The only feasible way of doing it is IMHO very fast, adaptive
> camouflage - that is, ruthenium polymers from Shadowtech.
>
> Sorry...
>
> ;>

Hey, it's ok. Thanks anyway.

Predator (thinking about force fields)
Message no. 14
From: Rob Gerritsen <wobbie@******.NL>
Subject: Re: NERPS (Stuff) cloaking device
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 19:29:49 +0100
At 00:38 16-02-02 +0100, you wrote:
>Hi chummers!
>
>I need your help on the project I'm working on right now.
>
>I'd like to create a device that allows the user to hide himself, like a
>Bandersnatch does with the Adaptive Coloration power. The only thing is
>I don't really know how to do it.
>
You could try something like a suit and a reception and deflection coating
on it. The reception unit would 'look' what the environment is like and
would translate this into electical impulses. Light is an energy, so this
should not be too difficult with SR technology.
The impulses are sent via a translator to the deflection coating, in the
coating is a chemical residue that responds to the impulses and will try to
match the light from the background.
A character should be covered entirely by the suit of course, and this can
be a bit hot. One should also not move very fast, as the response of the
reception unit isn't as fast...

... Just some thought on how I should handle something like this

Catscan
Message no. 15
From: "Paolo Falco, Explorer" <Falco@****.IT>
Subject: Re: NERPS (Stuff) cloaking device
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 21:30:39 +0100
Also sprach Dragon Claw:

> I'd like to create a device that allows the user to hide himself, like a
> Bandersnatch does with the Adaptive Coloration power. The only thing is
> I don't really know how to do it.
>
> The first thing I thought of was a kind of field that changes the
> EM-fields arounf the body of the user, creating a kind of negative field
> that negates the em-emission of the body, e.g the light reflected by a
> person.
>
> What do you think about it?

Yeah, one. Forget it. No non-magical power at all is big enough to
warp light rays so much that they "flow" around something and then
_come back again_.
I mean, massive galaxies do the "gravitational lens" effect, meaning
that they deflect light rays, but IMHO there is NOTHING that can
put them back on their original course. For one, photons are not
charged particles, so it is really difficult to _push_ them away as
opposed to "pull them" in.
Black holes pull them in (and won't let them go), just for your
information. That could give you an idea of the forces we're speaking
about.

All you can do is project an image of what is on the other side, as
ruthenium polymers do.

Or be transparent, which is very difficult but not impossible. There
are some almost transparent fishes. Genengineering could probably
produce a human with an almost transparent body, but it would be
real wierd, I mean, the reason your blood is red is because of
hemoglobin, and therefore our transparent man would need to be
without bones, blood, and many other common things. IMHO opinion
this is a little too far away for shadowrun (more like Warhammer
40.000 :)

Ah, of course, if you do not allow for real time-warping,
pseudo-kudzu and thinagboo bullshit such as phase devices or
separate dimensions accessed through tech devices, which would wreck
havoc in SRII.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Paolo Falco | "She was a fast machine, she kept her motor clean"
(WIP) | (AC/DC, "You shook me all night long")
-------------------------------------------------------------------
What do Lemmings have in common with each of us?
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/2717
Message no. 16
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: NERPS (Stuff) cloaking device
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 11:29:17 +0100
Rob Gerritsen said on 19:29/16 Feb 98...

> You could try something like a suit and a reception and deflection coating
> on it. The reception unit would 'look' what the environment is like and
> would translate this into electical impulses. Light is an energy, so this
> should not be too difficult with SR technology.
> The impulses are sent via a translator to the deflection coating, in the
> coating is a chemical residue that responds to the impulses and will try to
> match the light from the background.

There already is something like this in SR, called ruthenium polymers,
from Shadowtech. They work much like what you described.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
That's just fine.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 17
From: Tim Cooper <tpcooper@********.CSUPOMONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: NERPS (Stuff) cloaking device
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 10:00:55 -0800
Rob Gerritsen wrote:
> You could try something like a suit and a reception and deflection coating
> on it. The reception unit would 'look' what the environment is like and
> would translate this into electical impulses. Light is an energy, so this
> should not be too difficult with SR technology.
> The impulses are sent via a translator to the deflection coating, in the
> coating is a chemical residue that responds to the impulses and will try to
> match the light from the background.
> A character should be covered entirely by the suit of course, and this can
> be a bit hot. One should also not move very fast, as the response of the
> reception unit isn't as fast...

In other words just use a Ruthenium Polymer suit with the requisite
sensors... this sort of tech already exists in SR, no need to reinvent
the wheel.

Go Grab Shadow Tech and turn to the page entitled Ruthenium Polymers and
buy as much material and as many sensors as you want to get the desired
level of "cloaking".

~Tim
Message no. 18
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: NERPS (Stuff) cloaking device
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 12:18:45 -0700
Tim Cooper wrote:
)Rob Gerritsen wrote:
)> You could try something like a suit and a reception and deflection coating
)> on it. The reception unit would 'look' what the environment is like and
)> would translate this into electical impulses. Light is an energy, so this
)> should not be too difficult with SR technology.
)> The impulses are sent via a translator to the deflection coating, in the
)> coating is a chemical residue that responds to the impulses and will try to
)> match the light from the background.
)> A character should be covered entirely by the suit of course, and this can
)> be a bit hot. One should also not move very fast, as the response of the
)> reception unit isn't as fast...
)
)In other words just use a Ruthenium Polymer suit with the requisite
)sensors... this sort of tech already exists in SR, no need to reinvent
)the wheel.
)
)Go Grab Shadow Tech and turn to the page entitled Ruthenium Polymers and
)buy as much material and as many sensors as you want to get the desired
)level of "cloaking".

I think RP is designed to be used on a flat, imobile surface (like
the side of a van, for example). This way the system always know
which way the polymer is facing relative to the sensors. If you
mount the polymer on a flexible surface (like a great coat) your
going to have to mount sensors on the coat so that the system knows
which way the surface of the coat are facing and can account for that.

Not impossible, but expensive.

-David
--
"The most wasted day of all is that in which we have not laughed."
- Sebastian-Roch Nicolas Chamfort
--
Supervisor, Data Preparation
The UnCover Company
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
Message no. 19
From: Predator Omega <ba1764@*******.BAYNET.DE>
Subject: Re: NERPS (Stuff) cloaking device
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 23:55:07 +0100
Tim Cooper schrieb:
> In other words just use a Ruthenium Polymer suit with the requisite
> sensors... this sort of tech already exists in SR, no need to reinvent
> the wheel.
>
> Go Grab Shadow Tech and turn to the page entitled Ruthenium Polymers and
> buy as much material and as many sensors as you want to get the desired
> level of "cloaking".
>
> ~Tim

Yes, that's true. The initial idea, or better problem, was to create a
cloaking tech that surrounds the body and all equipment of the user.
Just like the cloaking device form the Predator I and II movies. Guess
where I got my name from...

Now, I'll drop it until creativity hits me, or something like that.

Thanks for all ideas.

Predator
Message no. 20
From: Tim Cooper <tpcooper@********.CSUPOMONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: NERPS (Stuff) cloaking device
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 17:29:46 -0800
David Buehrer wrote:

> I think RP is designed to be used on a flat, imobile surface (like
> the side of a van, for example). This way the system always know
> which way the polymer is facing relative to the sensors. If you
> mount the polymer on a flexible surface (like a great coat) your
> going to have to mount sensors on the coat so that the system knows
> which way the surface of the coat are facing and can account for that.

Of course, besides, using the rules given in ShadowTech, you'd need at
least 4 or 5 to make in any sort of reasonably reliable system anyway.

> Not impossible, but expensive.

Sure thing, I think the last one a character of mine built cost upwards
of Y50,000, not counting street index. Expensive, but damn effective.
Also not the kind of thing you just lug around on any old run... things
like bullets, fire and acid can easily turn tens of thousands of nuyen
into so much fried junk and melted plastic.
Believe me, I know.

~Tim
Message no. 21
From: Tim Cooper <tpcooper@********.CSUPOMONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: NERPS (Stuff) cloaking device
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 17:36:33 -0800
Predator Omega wrote:

> Yes, that's true. The initial idea, or better problem, was to create a
> cloaking tech that surrounds the body and all equipment of the user.
> Just like the cloaking device form the Predator I and II movies. Guess
> where I got my name from...

You want to cloak equipment? Just cover each piece in a RP sheath...
BTW, specialy designed holsters covered in RP are also fairly effective
for those times when you just can't be seen toting that favorite
sidearm.

~Tim
Message no. 22
From: "Paolo Falco, Explorer" <Falco@****.IT>
Subject: Re: NERPS (Stuff) cloaking device
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 18:30:50 +0100
Also sprach Tim Cooper:

> Sure thing, I think the last one a character of mine built cost upwards
> of Y50,000, not counting street index. Expensive, but damn effective.
> Also not the kind of thing you just lug around on any old run... things
> like bullets, fire and acid can easily turn tens of thousands of nuyen
> into so much fried junk and melted plastic.

Don't forget blood. That dark red can wreak havoc on a similar
system... :)

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Paolo Falco | "Freedom is the answer to a question we don't have
(WIP) | to ask" (Strange Fruit, "No White Clouds")
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Rollerbrawl: a game for skaters with a taste for the gory.
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/2717

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