Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: Predator Omega <ba1764@*******.BAYNET.DE>
Subject: (New cyber) Regnerating Nanites
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 15:04:58 +0100
Regenerating Nanites
====================
Nantites are microsopic robots that are only 0,5 nanometers in size. In
normal conditions between 1 and six billion natites are injected in the
body of the user, additional to a specialliced converter stomach.
The purpose of these natites is to repair damage of the cybernetical
implants of the user or to replace them. Thterefore they have to be
reprogrammed if the implantes change. The natites take all basic
componetnts from the stomach to the damged cyberware and install them
there. All in all there are 3 differnt kinds of nanites in the body. The
first are the "observers" that constatly monitor the status of the body.
if they detect a damage they release a speciall enzyme, that acts as a
messenger. This enzyme activates the collectors that transport the raw
materials to the damaged areas ans start to repair the implant. If they
have finished the repair they release a second enzyme that activates the
"conservers" and deaktivates the "observers". The
"conservers" layer a
protein shielding over the cyberware and therefore isolate it, after
they connect again all circuits. A third enzyme is spread in the blood
stream of the user, reaktivating the obveres and deaktivating the
"conservers". ther circle can start again. The healing speed depends on
the level of the nanites. If the user has a full cyber replacement body,
these nanites heal ALL damage to the user. The raw material (silicates,
e.g. glass) can normaly be found everywhere in an urban enviroment and
must be ingested.

Damagelevel light moderate serious deadly
Target number 4 6 8 10
Repairtime/level 24 hours 10 days 20 days 30 days
base time 2 hours 1 days 2 days 3 days

CONVERTER STOMACH
-----------------
Bodycost index availability cost legality
0,4 3 8 / 2 weeks 50.000 legal

NANITES (per limb)
-----------------
level time o.healing index availability cost legality
1 90% or -10% 3 8 / 2 weeks level x 20.000 legal
2 70%
3 50% as above
4 30%
5 10% or -90%



Desinger notes
--------------
I guess some will start flaming me for this. But don't hesitate, I'll
flame heavily back :-)

Ok, now serious. I've invented this thing for two resons:
First there is the Cybertech sourcebook. In the chapter about cyberlimbs
and torso it says the thing was invented because the articifial body is
much easier to be repaired. In fact this is not the case, at least not
in the rules. As all can see these nanites resemble the cyberware
equivalent of symbiontes, but they are much faster.

The second reason is, as I've mentioned in an earlier post that we are
using a hit location sys in our game. We decided that a cyberlimb can be
"wounded" just like an normal limb. But it can't be repaired with
healing spells or normal first aid. You may thing otherwise, but this
dosen't matter, I think this is another topic. This is of course a big
disatvantage compared to flesh limbs. First you have to spend hell of a
lot money on this thing and then it get's broken just like a normal limb
and can't be healed as easy as a flesh one. Plain stupid IHO, why should
you get one, besides the ability to armor it, and put some things in it?
BTW we've restricted the my amout of armor to 8, both hard and soft.

This piece is inteded to solve both problems at once.

Perhaps the whole thing is to heavy for you game(s) but you could use it
for NPC as well. Please not that the price is per limb, otherwise it
would be too cheap. Maybe you choose that the nanites can not heal
normal damage, to organs and so on.

Oh ,nearly forget to give you the link. As always there's a picture for
my cyberware. I like having pix for all my stuff. Just follow this link:
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Alley/3958/nanitene.html

I hope it works.

Ok that's it. Tell me what you think. (hey you would do anyway wouldn't
you?) BTW where will all this stuff end, does NERPS plan to do a
cyberware/equipment SB?

Friendly
Predator Omega
Message no. 2
From: David Mezerette <mezeretted@*****.U-NANCY.FR>
Subject: Re: (New cyber) Regnerating Nanites
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 14:58:52 +0100
At 15:04 08/01/98 +0100, you wrote:
>Regenerating Nanites
>====================
>Nantites are microsopic robots that are only 0,5 nanometers in size. In
>normal conditions between 1 and six billion natites are injected in the
>body of the user, additional to a specialliced converter stomach.
>The purpose of these natites is to repair damage of the cybernetical
>implants of the user or to replace them. Thterefore they have to be
>reprogrammed if the implantes change. The natites take all basic
>componetnts from the stomach to the damged cyberware and install them
>there. All in all there are 3 differnt kinds of nanites in the body. The
>first are the "observers" that constatly monitor the status of the body.
>if they detect a damage they release a speciall enzyme, that acts as a
>messenger. This enzyme activates the collectors that transport the raw
>materials to the damaged areas ans start to repair the implant.

Assuming these nanites things work (arguing over how realistic they are
ain't my point), wouldn't it me more simple to have a special piece of
cyberware (or two, for redundance) that checks the state of the others
cybersystems, and gives orders to the nanites (collectors). It could be
easily reprogrammed (u don't have to remove all the nanites and programmed
them all over) - through a datajack for example -.
Of course, such programming would be really expensive, and, once again,
function of the cyber u have: one can imagine there would be 'standart'
programms for 'standart' cyber, such has cyberoptics or 'normal' limbs, and
that all the doc has to do is to adjust it to the metabolism of the guy. On
the contrary, specially designed cyberware (as i believe alpha, beta and
delta grade cyber are), would require specially designed programs, REAL more
expensive.

ChYlD
mezeretted@*****.u-nancy.fr
Message no. 3
From: "Paolo Falco, Explorer" <Falco@****.IT>
Subject: Re: (New cyber) Regnerating Nanites
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 22:49:27 +0100
> >there. All in all there are 3 differnt kinds of nanites in the body. The
> >first are the "observers" that constatly monitor the status of the
body.
> >if they detect a damage they release a speciall enzyme, that acts as a
> >messenger. This enzyme activates the collectors that transport the raw
> >materials to the damaged areas ans start to repair the implant.

Hey you already have the "observers" as you call them. It's called
"pain"... And I bet broken cyberware hurts, A LOT!!! So, I'd say
you dump the observers and put a single piece of hardware that
scans incoming pain messages and sends repair crews. This should'nt
be allowed to be compatible with any pain-editing things, and should
be very costly.

All in all, tho', I don't think nanite technology is so advanced in
the SR world, or you could do all sorts of very strange nanites...
None of which is ever mentioned in any SR book.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Paolo Falco | "Every artist is a cannibal, every poet is a thief
(explorer) | all kill for inspiration and sing about their grief"
--------------------------------------------- U2, "the fly" -------
'E' ora possiBBOLI spegnere il computer', lo schermo finale!
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/2717
Message no. 4
From: Predator Omega <ba1764@*******.BAYNET.DE>
Subject: Re: (New cyber) Regnerating Nanites
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 00:22:42 +0100
David Mezerette schrieb:
> Assuming these nanites things work (arguing over how realistic they are
> ain't my point), wouldn't it me more simple to have a special piece of
> cyberware (or two, for redundance) that checks the state of the others
> cybersystems, and gives orders to the nanites (collectors). It could be
> easily reprogrammed (u don't have to remove all the nanites and programmed
> them all over) - through a datajack for example -.

Good idea.

> Of course, such programming would be really expensive, and, once again,
> function of the cyber u have: one can imagine there would be 'standart'
> programms for 'standart' cyber, such has cyberoptics or 'normal' limbs, and
> that all the doc has to do is to adjust it to the metabolism of the guy. On
> the contrary, specially designed cyberware (as i believe alpha, beta and
> delta grade cyber are), would require specially designed programs, REAL more
> expensive.
>
> ChYlD
> mezeretted@*****.u-nancy.fr

You realised correctly that this point, the reprogramming cost, is
completly missing.
It is up to the GM to determine. This allows you to stop or hinder the
changing in the
cyberware your players are planing by setting a very high cost for
reprogramming the nanites.
Otherwise they would remove the new cyberware. This also could be used
as a weapon.

Friendly
Predator
Message no. 5
From: Predator Omega <ba1764@*******.BAYNET.DE>
Subject: Re: (New cyber) Regnerating Nanites
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 00:22:59 +0100
Paolo Falco, Explorer schrieb:
> Hey you already have the "observers" as you call them. It's called
> "pain"... And I bet broken cyberware hurts, A LOT!!! So, I'd say
> you dump the observers and put a single piece of hardware that
> scans incoming pain messages and sends repair crews. This should'nt
> be allowed to be compatible with any pain-editing things, and should
> be very costly.

Take a look at the cybertech SB. Hatchetman says that you have to buy
special pain interfaces to feel that the cyberware is damaged (Story
about his live and how he became a street sam). Depending on the
interpretation of this fact it could mean

a) that you can combine pain editors/ damage compensators with
cyberware, or

b)that you have to pay extra to feel the pain, so you have a automatic
built-in damage compensator.

> All in all, tho', I don't think nanite technology is so advanced in
> the SR world, or you could do all sorts of very strange nanites...
> None of which is ever mentioned in any SR book.

Yes, this is true to some extend. In fact nanites are in use since the
advent of cybertech. Check the implantation procedure in the Shadowtech
SB. It reads that Nanites are used to create the interfaces between the
nerves and the cyberware. From this point of view is the nanotech very
much advanced, at least 30 years of development, or so.
This is of course a further improvment to nanites, as it was my
intention.
You have to decide on your own how far nanites ar in your game, but I
think you could produce things like this in a delta clinic. This could
make a formidable enemy for your party. Don't we all love (nearly)
regenerating cyberzombies?

Friendly
Predator
Message no. 6
From: Pierre-Alexandre Garneau <paganator@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: (New cyber) Regnerating Nanites
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 22:44:00 -0500
I think this cyberware should have mostly the effect of the platelet
factory bioware. I have a difficult time figuring that nanites can
actually make the cyberware work like new, even when it was almost
totally destroyed (deadly). I suppose they could repair some minor
damage, removing a box of damage, but they could hardly completely
repair the cyberlimb, imho...

--
PaG
--------
PaG's Shadowrun page: http://www.geocities.com/timessquare/alley/7931/

"f u cn rd ths, u cn gt a gd jb n cmptr prgrmmng."
"Disc space -- the final frontier!"
Message no. 7
From: David Mezerette <mezeretted@*****.U-NANCY.FR>
Subject: Re: (New cyber) Regnerating Nanites
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 06:32:14 +0100
At 00:22 09/01/98 +0100, you wrote:

>You realised correctly that this point, the reprogramming cost, is
>completly missing.
>It is up to the GM to determine. This allows you to stop or hinder the
>changing in the
>cyberware your players are planing by setting a very high cost for
>reprogramming the nanites.
>Otherwise they would remove the new cyberware. This also could be used
>as a weapon.
>
>Friendly
>Predator
>

it makes me think: how to calm down some heavy cybered street sammy? nanites
programming error *evil GM grin*

ChYlD
Message no. 8
From: Predator Omega <ba1764@*******.BAYNET.DE>
Subject: Re: (New cyber) Regnerating Nanites
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 13:30:20 +0100
Pierre-Alexandre Garneau schrieb:
>
> I think this cyberware should have mostly the effect of the platelet
> factory bioware. I have a difficult time figuring that nanites can
> actually make the cyberware work like new, even when it was almost
> totally destroyed (deadly). I suppose they could repair some minor
> damage, removing a box of damage, but they could hardly completely
> repair the cyberlimb, imho...

My basic idea was to create a symbiont equivalent. But check the "Mnonic
Metal" posting for the plantalet equivalent. Imagine the nanites as
extreme little robots that replace the damaged parts molecule by
molecule following a strict programm. Ok, it is high-tech.

BTW in my lst post I said that damaged cyberware does not hurt.
This is wrong. What I meant was that damaged cyberLIMBS do not (or
should normaly not) hurt, but a cybereye could hurt, or a wired reflex
system.

Pred
Message no. 9
From: El Bandit <ElBandit@***.COM>
Subject: Re: (New cyber) Regnerating Nanites
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 09:56:38 EST
Greetings!!!

I have a few problems with this new piece of game-ware. This is constructive
critism, so plaese do not take it the wrong way.

The first is that the table is unclear as to how long it taks to repair
damage. How can the base time be greater than the repair time per level? Or is
the base time the Minimum time alloted for repair?

Wouldn't that nanites have a life span? Afterall nothing last forever. You
would have to consistanly get new injections of Nanites to keep such a system
operational. Also, wouldn't the body's own defense system attack the nanites
since they would be a foreign particle in the blood Stream?

What does the stomach converter use to convert the materials swallowed into
their basic componets? On top of that attempting to digest such raw materials
would be hard on the actual esophagas as well as stomach lining.

As for cyberlimbs not having feeling unless you pay extra for it, I would
think that not having any feeling in your arm could be a big disadvantage. You
you can't feel pain you can't feel anything thus you would have clumbsy
control over most of your motor functions. (Sucks to apply too much pressure
to objects you are picking up.) I would also say that it wouldn't feel right
to see an arm moving ant not feel it.

Though the limbs of SR may have buildt in sensor to assist with pressure.

It has also been asked why would anyone want a limb replacement. Well, you
would have a cyberlimb replacement if you didn't already have a grown limb
replacement ready. Nerve endings tend to be sealed off, unless you are gonna
stay in the hospitol while a limb grows.

To me, it seems relatively easy to goto a street doc and get the arm patched
up.

IMHO,

-Bandit
Message no. 10
From: Predator Omega <ba1764@*******.BAYNET.DE>
Subject: Re: (New cyber) Regnerating Nanites
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 18:27:36 +0100
El Bandit schrieb:
>
> Greetings!!!
>
> I have a few problems with this new piece of game-ware. This is constructive
> critism, so plaese do not take it the wrong way.

Guess I have flamed so many people that the rest tries to be more
careful. :-) Hey, it's ok, sometimes is just forget to write things
down, because I of course knew what I'd wanted to say.

> The first is that the table is unclear as to how long it taks to repair
> damage. How can the base time be greater than the repair time per level? Or is
> the base time the Minimum time alloted for repair?

Yes, I should have give some commenst to this. The table shows the
normal TN and times for healing, taken form the SR core rule book page
???. I've included them only to save myself the time to look em up.
The levels show how big the reducion in time is, e.g if you have a 50%
reduction and it would normaly take 12 hours to heal the damage it would
only be 6 hours. The base time for healing is used before the reduction
from the nanites is applied.


> Wouldn't that nanites have a life span? Afterall nothing last forever. You
> would have to consistanly get new injections of Nanites to keep such a system
> operational. Also, wouldn't the body's own defense system attack the nanites
> since they would be a foreign particle in the blood Stream?

Perhaps, the life span could be between several months or dozens of
years. In fact I never thought about this. There is a second implant to
improve this one that allows your body to rebuilt lost nanites. This
will come soon.


> What does the stomach converter use to convert the materials swallowed into
> their basic componets? On top of that attempting to digest such raw materials
> would be hard on the actual esophagas as well as stomach lining.

The idea came partly from the movie Virtuosity with Denzil Washington. I
just thought it is better to mention that you have the get raw materials
from somewhere, e.g. a beer glass or something like that and then
ingest it. The nanites decompose it and transport the stuff t the
damaged components in your cyberware.
The healing time is used mainly for damged cyberlimbs (hit-location
sys). I never fixed time for other damged cyberware, but I think the
time for deadly or serious damge would be acceptable.

> As for cyberlimbs not having feeling unless you pay extra for it, I would
> think that not having any feeling in your arm could be a big disadvantage. You
> you can't feel pain you can't feel anything thus you would have clumbsy
> control over most of your motor functions. (Sucks to apply too much pressure
> to objects you are picking up.) I would also say that it wouldn't feel right
> to see an arm moving ant not feel it.
>
> Though the limbs of SR may have buildt in sensor to assist with pressure.

They of course have. They must. But there is a differnce between pain
and the sense of touch. It is like adjusting the sound volume on your
radio, if it is too loud just turn it down. Same thing with metal arm
and flesh arm. "Pain is natures ways to tell you to slow down" (Murphys
combat law). The cyberarm could do the same if you like to, but it also
could buzz or give a message to your display in you helm or cybereye or
it could aktivted flashlight or simple lock up.

Friendly
Pred
Message no. 11
From: "Leszek Karlik, aka Mike" <trrkt@*****.ONET.PL>
Subject: Re: (New cyber) Regnerating Nanites
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 18:54:49 +0000
On 9 Jan 98, Predator Omega disseminated foul capitalist propaganda
by writing:

<snip>
> They of course have. They must. But there is a differnce between
> pain and the sense of touch. It is like adjusting the sound volume
> on your radio, if it is too loud just turn it down. Same thing with
> metal arm and flesh arm. "Pain is natures ways to tell you to slow
> down" (Murphys combat law). The cyberarm could do the same if you

Uhhh... "A sucking chest wound is Nature's way of telling you
to slow down"

Anyway, I don't think that this stuff fits SRII universe...

It's the same thing as with "nanite car mechanic" threat on ShadowRN
some time ago... Basically, SR nanites are not microscopic
programmable robots... Shadowtech says that those are short-lived,
gengineered bacteria directed by careful laying down of a special
sugar using some funny method... Nanotech is not used for anything
else, only for creating neural interfaces... They're not using
nanotech to create mechanical stuff, for example...

I mean, this may be cool, but sorry, it's not SR... (Recently, I saw
somewhere on the Net an abomination called a "hoverboard", using
antigravity... Sheesh. In SR? This ain't Traveller...)


Leszek Karlik, aka Mike - trrkt@*****.onet.pl; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike;
Star Wars fan and Amber junkie; ICQ UIN 6947998; FIAWOL; WTF TKD TOO;
FL/GN Leszek/Raptor II/ISD Vanguard, (SS) (PC) (ISM) {IWATS-IIC} JH(Sith)/House Scholae
Palatinae
Just don't tell the asylum you saw me here.
Message no. 12
From: Predator Omega <ba1764@*******.BAYNET.DE>
Subject: Re: (New cyber) Regnerating Nanites
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 00:33:38 +0100
Leszek Karlik, aka Mike schrieb:
> Anyway, I don't think that this stuff fits SRII universe...

I'm not surprised this came from you. Ok, there must always be someone
against it. But this is okay with me, there must be one sceptic or the
next step will be battlemechs as shoping vehicles. (YOU CAN'T PARK THIS
MARAUDER HERE!)

> It's the same thing as with "nanite car mechanic" threat on ShadowRN
> some time ago... Basically, SR nanites are not microscopic
> programmable robots... Shadowtech says that those are short-lived,
> gengineered bacteria directed by careful laying down of a special
> sugar using some funny method... Nanotech is not used for anything
> else, only for creating neural interfaces... They're not using
> nanotech to create mechanical stuff, for example...

Nanotech is one of the most important technical advances in the next
century. German scientist are working at a system quite like this in the
moment. And this is RW and not SR.
But ok, it depends all on the techlevel. But I would recommend including
this stuff in SR because it bears many oportunities, not only for
equipment but also for life-style or background stuff.
I can't see any reason why FASA shouldn't include stuff like this in
their next Shadotech book. It is in fact very easy to create them, the
main problem is (in real world) the controlling system, because the
chips we are using in the moment ar just to big. But with a chip 10,000
times smaller...? A easy way to include the stuff without any further
problems for your game is to increase the availability or restrict it to
delta cyber and corps.


> (Recently, I saw somewhere on the Net an abomination called a
> "hoverboard", using antigravity... Sheesh. In SR? This ain't
> Traveller...)

Ok, this is really a bit too heavy for SR, remembers me of aircars in
Cyberpunk.


> Leszek Karlik, aka Mike - trrkt@*****.onet.pl; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike;
> Star Wars fan and Amber junkie; ICQ UIN 6947998; FIAWOL; WTF TKD TOO;

Ok, what the hell is Amber???? never heard about it before? Could you
fill me in? Just send me an e-mail if you have the spare time.

> Just don't tell the asylum you saw me here.

We won't.
Message no. 13
From: "Leszek Karlik, aka Mike" <trrkt@*****.ONET.PL>
Subject: Re: (New cyber) Regnerating Nanites
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 02:10:15 +0000
On 10 Jan 98, Predator Omega disseminated foul capitalist propaganda
by writing:

> > Anyway, I don't think that this stuff fits SRII universe...
>
> I'm not surprised this came from you. Ok, there must always be
> someone against it. But this is okay with me, there must be one
> sceptic or the next step will be battlemechs as shoping vehicles.
> (YOU CAN'T PARK THIS MARAUDER HERE!)

Me? A sceptic? Hrrrhmph. And I didn't even get involved with the
"nanomech mechanic" thread... ;>

<snip>
> Nanotech is one of the most important technical advances in the next
> century. German scientist are working at a system quite like this in
> the moment. And this is RW and not SR. But ok, it depends all on the
> techlevel. But I would recommend including this stuff in SR because

Hmmm...They are? How did they managed to solve the problem of
nanotech requiring cryogenic-level temperatures? I can hardly
imagine letting some liquid nitrogen in your bloodstream along with
the nanites... <grin>

> it bears many oportunities, not only for equipment but also for
> life-style or background stuff. I can't see any reason why FASA
> shouldn't include stuff like this in their next Shadotech book. It
> is in fact very easy to create them, the main problem is (in real
> world) the controlling system, because the chips we are using in the
> moment ar just to big. But with a chip 10,000 times smaller...? A
> easy way to include the stuff without any further problems for your
> game is to increase the availability or restrict it to delta cyber
> and corps.

Yes, well, the problem is, till FASA includes it, I keep it out of my
games... They have too big potential for abuse. Granted, I'm the
biggest munchkin in my whole group, so it's not a problem when I am
GMing ( ;P), but still...

BTW: While I like some your cyberware, I don't even let my players
see it. I mean, I'm deep enough in trouble without my players getting
some of the stuff floating on the net (3 runners: a werepanther
physad, a shaman and an ork sammie with 21+3d6 Init... Sheesh. ;>).

But after some thinking, I've decided I may use it for NPCs... (Or to
taunt my players... Leave the printout "accidentally" laying around.
;>)


<snip>
> > (Recently, I saw somewhere on the Net an abomination called a
> > "hoverboard", using antigravity... Sheesh. In SR? This ain't
> > Traveller...)
>
> Ok, this is really a bit too heavy for SR, remembers me of aircars
> in Cyberpunk.

Well, the AV4? Or some other aircars? I actually liked the idea
behind the AVs, even implementing them in my game (OK, so they came
packaged with Jane's Rigger Registry...).


Leszek Karlik, aka Mike - trrkt@*****.onet.pl; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike;
Star Wars fan and Amber junkie; ICQ UIN 6947998; FIAWOL; WTF TKD TOO;
FL/GN Leszek/Raptor II/ISD Vanguard, (SS) (PC) (ISM) {IWATS-IIC} JH(Sith)/House Scholae
Palatinae
This car is rust free - the dealer didn't charge for it.
Message no. 14
From: Pete Wilson <piatro@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: (New cyber) Regnerating Nanites
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 21:21:33 -0600
Leszek Karlik (Mike) retaliated to:

>On 10 Jan 98, Predator Omega disseminated foul capitalist propaganda
>by writing:
>

><snip>
>> > (Recently, I saw somewhere on the Net an abomination called a
>> > "hoverboard", using antigravity... Sheesh. In SR? This ain't
>> > Traveller...)
>>
>> Ok, this is really a bit too heavy for SR, remembers me of aircars
>> in Cyberpunk.
>
>Well, the AV4? Or some other aircars? I actually liked the idea
>behind the AVs, even implementing them in my game (OK, so they came
>packaged with Jane's Rigger Registry...).
>
>

So how do we classify a GMC Banshee or Boeing Eagle? They're out there
waiting for someone to improve and make comercially viable for sale to the
general public.

Hey this sounds like a prime target for a run or two.


Piatro
Message no. 15
From: "Darrell L. Bowman" <bowmandl@*****.DHR.STATE.NC.US>
Subject: Re: (New cyber) Regnerating Nanites
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 18:14:55 +0000
On 10 Jan 98 at 2:10, Leszek Karlik, aka Mike wrote:

> BTW: While I like some your cyberware, I don't even let my players
> see it. I mean, I'm deep enough in trouble without my players getting
> some of the stuff floating on the net (3 runners: a werepanther
> physad, a shaman and an ork sammie with 21+3d6 Init... Sheesh. ;>).

That slow huh? :-)


---
::Sound of Autocannon fire::
You mean, you thought there WAS somebody following us./n -- Raven


Raven,
Irish Elven Rigger with an Attitude

Excalibur
Darrell Bowman
bowmandl@*****.dhr.state.nc.us
http://sara.cas.nwu.edu/~arch/kos_rule.htm
UIN 1117228
Message no. 16
From: "Darrell L. Bowman" <bowmandl@*****.DHR.STATE.NC.US>
Subject: Re: (New cyber) Regnerating Nanites
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 18:14:55 +0000
On 10 Jan 98 at 21:21, Pete Wilson wrote:

> So how do we classify a GMC Banshee or Boeing Eagle? They're out there
> waiting for someone to improve and make comercially viable for sale to the
> general public.
>
> Hey this sounds like a prime target for a run or two.

ACV, Air Cushion Vehicle, not antigravity. I think that was what he
meant.
---
Just let me spread out this plastic in the back
of the van, then we can interrogate him!
-- Smilin' Jack


Raven,
Irish Elven Rigger with an Attitude

Excalibur
Darrell Bowman
bowmandl@*****.dhr.state.nc.us
http://sara.cas.nwu.edu/~arch/kos_rule.htm
UIN 1117228
Message no. 17
From: Predator Omega <ba1764@*******.BAYNET.DE>
Subject: Re: (New cyber) Regnerating Nanites
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 00:31:43 +0100
Darrell L. Bowman schrieb:
>
> On 10 Jan 98 at 2:10, Leszek Karlik, aka Mike wrote:
>
> > BTW: While I like some your cyberware, I don't even let my players
> > see it. I mean, I'm deep enough in trouble without my players getting
> > some of the stuff floating on the net (3 runners: a werepanther
> > physad, a shaman and an ork sammie with 21+3d6 Init... Sheesh. ;>).
>
> That slow huh? :-)

30 + 4D6
That's mine.

Pred
Message no. 18
From: Pete Wilson <piatro@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: (New cyber) Regnerating Nanites
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 18:42:19 -0600
>On 10 Jan 98 at 21:21, Pete Wilson wrote:
>
>> So how do we classify a GMC Banshee or Boeing Eagle? They're out there
>> waiting for someone to improve and make comercially viable for sale to the
>> general public.
>>
>> Hey this sounds like a prime target for a run or two.
>
>ACV, Air Cushion Vehicle, not antigravity. I think that was what he
>meant.
>---

Well, FOF listings have them under different headings. That indicates to
me that Vectored Thrust and Thunerbirds are in some way distinct from Air
Cussion Vehicles. Come to think of it FASA hasn't said anything about
altitude ceilings for any aircraft.

Piatro

Oh! For the record I wasn't saying that they were anti-grav. That's a
whole other kettle of fish.
Message no. 19
From: El Bandit <ElBandit@***.COM>
Subject: Re: (New cyber) Regnerating Nanites
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 21:47:28 EST
According to JonSetzo (Author of Rigger 2) the Banshee is a vector thurst
craft:

Here is a post of his from aol on the subect:

Turns out my original guess was way off base: most helicopters, even the heavy
cargo helicopters, have a flight ceiling of 10 to 20 thousand feet (about 3 to
6 thousand meters). However, carrying a full load tends to reduce the flight
ceiling a bit (so an empty helicopter with a ceiling of about 15 thousand feet
would have a ceiling of about 10 thousand feet carry a full load of about 2-3
thousand kg).

Now, to extrapolate this to t-birds: t-bird vector thrust drives will most
likely have a much higher thrust output than a mere helicopter rotor (for
example, the F100 turbofan on an F-15 has a thrust output of about 13,000 kg).
On the other hand, t-birds weigh more (armor and all that), maybe about 3
times as much (conservative guess).

Taking both factors into consideration, I would hazard to venture that a t-
bird would have a flight ceiling at about one-third the height of a
helicopter: about 3 to 5 thousand feet, or 1 to 2 thousand meters.

Of course, considering how t-birds are used, tactics would probably keep t-
birds as low to the ground as possible. 50 meters is a bit low as an absolute
ceiling --- nape-of-earth flight (flying low enough to use terrain contours
for concealment) is considered anything below 200 feet (65 meters), and
sometimes t-birds will need to get above terrain to provide close-air fire
support. I would guess that typical 2050s tactics probably keep t-birds flying
at a height of 150 meters or lower.
Message no. 20
From: David Mezerette <mezeretted@*****.U-NANCY.FR>
Subject: Re: (New cyber) Regnerating Nanites
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 09:25:34 +0100
At 18:14 11/01/98 +0000, you wrote:
>On 10 Jan 98 at 21:21, Pete Wilson wrote:
>
>> So how do we classify a GMC Banshee or Boeing Eagle? They're out there
>> waiting for someone to improve and make comercially viable for sale to the
>> general public.
>>
>> Hey this sounds like a prime target for a run or two.
>
>ACV, Air Cushion Vehicle, not antigravity. I think that was what he
>meant.

Look at the Banshee picture, it doesn't look like an ACV at all, and it's
refered as an LAV, though i don't know how LAVs work...
ChYlD
Message no. 21
From: "Darrell L. Bowman" <bowmandl@*****.DHR.STATE.NC.US>
Subject: Re: (New cyber) Regnerating Nanites
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 10:25:21 +0000
On 12 Jan 98 at 0:31, Predator Omega wrote:

> > > physad, a shaman and an ork sammie with 21+3d6 Init... Sheesh. ;>).
> >
> > That slow huh? :-)
>
> 30 + 4D6
> That's mine.

Daaaaaammmnnn! Just for curiosity sake, could you e-mail me (to keep
it out of Nerps) and tell me HOW you got that high?


---
You can complain because roses have thorns, or you can rejoice
because thorns have roses.
-- Ziggy


Raven,
Irish Elven Rigger with an Attitude

Excalibur
Darrell Bowman
bowmandl@*****.dhr.state.nc.us
http://sara.cas.nwu.edu/~arch/kos_rule.htm
UIN 1117228
Message no. 22
From: "Darrell L. Bowman" <bowmandl@*****.DHR.STATE.NC.US>
Subject: Re: (New cyber) Regnerating Nanites
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 10:28:04 +0000
On 11 Jan 98 at 18:42, Pete Wilson wrote:

> >ACV, Air Cushion Vehicle, not antigravity. I think that was what he
> >meant.
> >---
>
> Well, FOF listings have them under different headings. That indicates to
> me that Vectored Thrust and Thunerbirds are in some way distinct from Air
> Cussion Vehicles. Come to think of it FASA hasn't said anything about
> altitude ceilings for any aircraft.

Your right Pete,.. those are Vectored thrust,.. and I thought about
that AFTER I's sent the message. :-)

hmm... maybe it wasnt' you that mentioned anti-gravity,.. but I think
somebody did.

---
What are you bitchin' about?, I only got tree sap on
the bottom of the wings.
-- Raven
Message no. 23
From: Les Ward <lward@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: (New cyber) Regnerating Nanites
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 10:42:30 -0500
Piatro wrote:
>Well, FOF listings have them under different headings. That indicates to
>me that Vectored Thrust and Thunerbirds are in some way distinct from Air
>Cussion Vehicles. Come to think of it FASA hasn't said anything about
>altitude ceilings for any aircraft.

The distinction seems to be that ACVs use rotors, essentally fans, to give
lift. LAVs use jet engines.

Wordman
Message no. 24
From: Les Ward <lward@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: (New cyber) Regnerating Nanites
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 11:23:26 -0500
>Regenerating Nanites
>====================
>Nantites are microsopic robots that are only 0,5 nanometers in size.

In spite of Shadowtech's mention of nanites, I'm a bit leary of adding them
into my campaign. Nanotechnology is usually thought of as doing something
useful and working in some limited capacity; however, in the real world,
when nanotech becomes advanced, we are likely in for a really bad time.

The simplest, most primative nanite I can think of would be one that gets
into your body and just starts ripping random cells apart. Flooded with
these, you'd die in a lot of pain after a few days. With advanced tech, you
could build much worse.

I guess my point is that if you want to add nanites to a campaign, be aware
that there should be some _serious_ social baggage that comes with them.
The best treatment of what nanotech might do to the world can be found in
Neal Sephenson's _Diamond_Age_.

Wordman
Message no. 25
From: Predator Omega <ba1764@*******.BAYNET.DE>
Subject: Re: (New cyber) Regnerating Nanites
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 18:33:45 +0100
Les Ward schrieb:
>
> >Regenerating Nanites
> >====================
> >Nantites are microsopic robots that are only 0,5 nanometers in size.
>
> In spite of Shadowtech's mention of nanites, I'm a bit leary of adding them
> into my campaign. Nanotechnology is usually thought of as doing something
> useful and working in some limited capacity; however, in the real world,
> when nanotech becomes advanced, we are likely in for a really bad time.
>
> The simplest, most primative nanite I can think of would be one that gets
> into your body and just starts ripping random cells apart. Flooded with
> these, you'd die in a lot of pain after a few days. With advanced tech, you
> could build much worse.
>
> I guess my point is that if you want to add nanites to a campaign, be aware
> that there should be some _serious_ social baggage that comes with them.
> The best treatment of what nanotech might do to the world can be found in
> Neal Sephenson's _Diamond_Age_.
>
> Wordman

Sorry, never heard about the book but I think I'll read it.
Another sources for nanotech is William Gibsons "Virtual Light" and
"Idoru". If this is not cyberpunkish enough, there is no cyberpunk at
all. If it is SR style I don't know.

We (five GMs in my Group, me as one of them, we change form campaing to
campaing, and this works very good) have it in our storys and it works
very well. Every little piece of stuff has passed five GMs at last and
they all accepted it. Therefore I'm arguing a bit longer about
everything than anybody else. It is NOT because I think you are all
stupid or ignorant, but I try to look at every side of the subject. It
is sometimes anoying, but as the Amber-junky said "I love to be
anoying". Or something like that, I can't remember the exact words, so
don't start to flame me for this Leszek, please!

I don't want to force my cyber in your campaings. I just thought it
could be included in a Netbook and it is up to the reader to decide
whether he/she likes it or not. If not they won't use it.

BTW please could you post the aircushion/ vector thrust stuff under a
different name, it's getting to be very confussing.

Ok, I'll try to include all of your thoughts and ideas in the final
draft of the nanites. If I forget something, please... Ok, I know you'll
tell me.

Friendly
Predator
Message no. 26
From: "M.Farstrand" <sorrow@*********.NET>
Subject: Re: (New cyber) Regnerating Nanites
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 21:48:59 +0100
> >Regenerating Nanites
> >====================
> >Nantites are microsopic robots that are only 0,5 nanometers in size.
>
> In spite of Shadowtech's mention of nanites, I'm a bit leary of adding them
> into my campaign. Nanotechnology is usually thought of as doing something
> useful and working in some limited capacity; however, in the real world,
> when nanotech becomes advanced, we are likely in for a really bad time.
>
> The simplest, most primative nanite I can think of would be one that gets
> into your body and just starts ripping random cells apart. Flooded with
> these, you'd die in a lot of pain after a few days. With advanced tech, you
> could build much worse.
>
> Wordman


Well, wouldnīt that be a great thing to Throw on a couple of
Runners.....

"Thereīs some Strange drekk in Uīre body AND itīs ripping it a part
(slowly, itīs always slow and they get a Chans to Survive)
You got 24 hours to Live!!!
What do You Do??"

I would love to give my fellows that one after a really Terrible Run.
;->


/SorroW
Message no. 27
From: "Leszek Karlik, aka Mike" <trrkt@*****.ONET.PL>
Subject: Re: (New cyber) Regnerating Nanites
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 23:07:42 +0000
On 12 Jan 98, Predator Omega disseminated foul capitalist propaganda
by writing:

<snip>

> Sorry, never heard about the book but I think I'll read it.
> Another sources for nanotech is William Gibsons "Virtual Light" and
> "Idoru". If this is not cyberpunkish enough, there is no cyberpunk
> at all. If it is SR style I don't know.

Also you can check out the Usenet newsgroup sci.nanotech.

On the other side, maybe not. It's mainly scientists and stuff,
though one can find interesting stuff there, too... (From time to
time).

> We (five GMs in my Group, me as one of them, we change form campaing
> to campaing, and this works very good) have it in our storys and it
> works very well. Every little piece of stuff has passed five GMs at
> last and they all accepted it. Therefore I'm arguing a bit longer
> about everything than anybody else. It is NOT because I think you
> are all stupid or ignorant, but I try to look at every side of the
> subject. It is sometimes anoying, but as the Amber-junky said "I
> love to be anoying". Or something like that, I can't remember the
> exact words, so don't start to flame me for this Leszek, please!

I don't flame people. I just... enlighten them. <evil grin>

Anyway, have you thought about ALL the implications of nanites? Like,
one has to create some kind of a biological shield for the
environment that will catch stray nanites, and one would have to
control the nanite research rather closely, as the "gray goo" would
be a great terrorist weapon.
(For the uninformed: we take nanites, and order them to break down
all substances they find, then create more nanites from the stuff
they obtain... Nanites replicate, replicate, replicate, and insteado
of a planet we've got a big glob of "gray goo", namely, nanites,
floating in space... <shudder>)

What about nanocomputing?

> I don't want to force my cyber in your campaings. I just thought it
> could be included in a Netbook and it is up to the reader to decide
> whether he/she likes it or not. If not they won't use it.

OK, but in that case I'd recommand a separate "Nanotechnology"
section with a short intro describing all the pros and cons of
nanotech, so that the GM bent on introducing nanotech into his
campaign will know what the potential traps are...

<snip>


Leszek Karlik, aka Mike - trrkt@*****.onet.pl; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike;
Amber fan and Star Wars junkie; UIN 6947998; WTF TKD; FIAWOL; YMMV; IMAO; SNAFU
FL/GN Leszek/Raptor II/ISD Vanguard, (SS) (PC) (ISM) {IWATS-IIC} JH(Sith)/HSP
I got lost in thought. It was unfamiliar territory.
Message no. 28
From: Cthulhu19 <Cthulhu19@***.COM>
Subject: Re: (New cyber) Regnerating Nanites
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 12:26:26 EST
In a message dated 98-01-12 17:10:52 EST, Leszek Karlik wrote these timeless
words:

>What about nanocomputing?

Oh, the possibilities......

-Bryan Shelton
"You gotta believe me Reaver, there IS an A.I. living in my cyberdeck!!!!!"
-Onyx, decker
Message no. 29
From: Predator Omega <ba1764@*******.BAYNET.DE>
Subject: Re: (New cyber) Regnerating Nanites
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 22:40:13 +0100
Cthulhu19 schrieb:
>
> In a message dated 98-01-12 17:10:52 EST, Leszek Karlik wrote these timeless
> words:
>
> >What about nanocomputing?
>
> Oh, the possibilities......
>
> -Bryan Shelton
> "You gotta believe me Reaver, there IS an A.I. living in my cyberdeck!!!!!"
> -Onyx, decker
Hey ther's an AI living in my PC, and I know it hates me.

Pred

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about (New cyber) Regnerating Nanites, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.