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Message no. 1
From: "Paolo Falco (FoxMaster)" <Falco@****.iT>
Subject: (Fwd) Re: RE> RE: New project!
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 18:38:14 +0200
On 26 Sep 96, Gurth wrote the FoxMaster about Re: RE> RE: New
project!:

WARNING: IGNORANT POST!

> * Europe: Northern Europe is pretty much as it is now, but a bit worse
> for wear. Southern Europe (below the level of the Alps, I'd guess) has
> fallen back to city states and ethnic enclaves, fighting little wars with
> each other on occasion.

I seem to recall from "Harlequin" that soemthing like that happens in
Southern Germany too... (You know, the "putsch-pooch really very
funny joke") But I haven't got Germany's HB, so... I was just
wondering what has happened to say, Austria, And most of the eastern
countries.

> * Africa: hardly any information at all, so this is open ground for
> whatever we want to write about.

Where exactly are "Desert Wars" fought? In Africa or... Uh. Well, the
only other major deserts I can think of are either in the middle east
or the Gobi. (as a matter of fact, _what exactly_ are the desert
wars?)

> * Asia: China is ruled by warlords, and so has disintegrated as a country.
> Tibet is shielded from the rest of the world by a high-powered magical
> forcefield (or something :). Japan is a world power.

About Japan. We should (if we can) detail HOW can one country with
almost no territory get to be a _real_ world power. Of course, it can
get to be like that through economical slavery, but has it got a
-real- army? (Japan now cannot have an army since it lost WWII)

> The rest of the
> countries in the area would probably have either followed China's example,
> or fought wars with each other to radically alter the map of the
> continent, IMHO.

What about INDIA? India is the classic place that could become a
MAJOR power with the awakening! It's got the people, it has got the
territory, a (now) stable government, a (minor) development in
economics, and of course it's got the magical background!!!

> * South America: we best don't touch Amazonia, but apart from that we know
> almost nothing about the continent. Fair game, again.

One word: Patagonia. Or: What about polar bases and killer mutant
penguins? :) Maybe you know that the antarctic was splitted evenly
between the major powers. Has it become a differenc country? Is there
people living in the antarctic? Same goes for the Arctic, of course,
except that there are no killer penguins :)

> * North America: since this is outlined in the SR books in broad terms for
> the most part, we could write about smaller areas, like Cleveland :)

And Fresno.

> Oh, and Paolo (no Falco, not you :)

*WAAH!*


------------------------------------------------------------------
Paolo Falco | "Boom of communications: everybody communi-
Ironbound Section | cates that he's communicating" (Altan)
------------------------------------------------------------------
Skater's Site And Generally Paradoxal Poetry Page With Lemmings at
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/2717
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Message no. 2
From: bluewizard@*****.com (Steven A. Tinner)
Subject: Re: (Fwd) Re: RE> RE: New project!
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 13:11:39 -0500 (EST)
>What about INDIA? India is the classic place that could become a
>MAJOR power with the awakening! It's got the people, it has got the
>territory, a (now) stable government, a (minor) development in
>economics, and of course it's got the magical background!!!

They have a very well developed mythology to draw from as well.
Check out the Wild Cards Abroad book for a take on an awakened India.

>One word: Patagonia. Or: What about polar bases and killer mutant
>penguins? :) Maybe you know that the antarctic was splitted evenly
>between the major powers. Has it become a differenc country? Is there
>people living in the antarctic? Same goes for the Arctic, of course,
>except that there are no killer penguins :)

This I like! Silly, but useful!
Don't forget all the other critters that live under the ice!
Green sharks and whales etc.



FAMOUS LAST WORDS
"Stop handing me things that come apart!"
Message no. 3
From: "'Spaceman' WD Lee" <spaced@*.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: (Fwd) Re: RE> RE: New project!
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 12:26:14 -0700 (PDT)
On Sun, 29 Sep 1996, Paolo Falco (FoxMaster) wrote:
>
> WARNING: IGNORANT POST!
Well, now..... Now I can't do it, not when you ask for it like
that.... ;P

> Where exactly are "Desert Wars" fought? In Africa or... Uh. Well, the
> only other major deserts I can think of are either in the middle east
> or the Gobi. (as a matter of fact, _what exactly_ are the desert
> wars?)
It seems to me that the Desert Wars are fought in the Sahara. As
for what they are, they're a way for corps to drill their military might
without a)offending someone important and b)make money out of it on the
side by selling the broadcast rights (and free advertising of product!
woo-hoo!)

> About Japan. We should (if we can) detail HOW can one country with
> almost no territory get to be a _real_ world power. Of course, it can
> get to be like that through economical slavery, but has it got a
> -real- army? (Japan now cannot have an army since it lost WWII)
Probably a combo of economic strength, Corp armies, and a lack of
enforcement of the WWII treaty (after US falls, who else has the necessary
compenents?)
>
> What about INDIA? India is the classic place that could become a
> MAJOR power with the awakening! It's got the people, it has got the
> territory, a (now) stable government, a (minor) development in
> economics, and of course it's got the magical background!!!
That's a damn interesting Idea..... Hmmm....What would happen with
the religious tension in the area when the Awakening comes? and would Sri
Lanka be a part, would they have finished that civil war? Damn you Paolo,
making me think and all..... ;>


The Spaceman |God said, "Let there be light." And God
spaced@*.washington.edu |separated the light from the dark. And
Check out the Bill Page! |did two loads of laundry. -Genesis 1:2.5
http://weber.u.washington.edu/~spaced/bill.html
GCC/GL d- s:++ a-- C++ U+ P+ L>L++ !E W++ N++ o+ K w !O M-- V--
PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5++ X+ R+ tv b+++ DI+ D+ G+ e+ h r z+
MPA/SH/TA S G Q+ 666 y W C++ N+ PEC+++ Dr
Message no. 4
From: dbuehrer@****.org (David Buehrer)
Subject: Re: (Fwd) Re: RE> RE: New project!
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 17:47:31 -0600 (MDT)
Paolo Falco wrote:
|
|On 26 Sep 96, Gurth wrote the FoxMaster about Re: RE> RE: New
|project!:
|
|> * Asia: China is ruled by warlords, and so has disintegrated as a country.
|> Tibet is shielded from the rest of the world by a high-powered magical
|> forcefield (or something :). Japan is a world power.
|
|About Japan. We should (if we can) detail HOW can one country with
|almost no territory get to be a _real_ world power. Of course, it can
|get to be like that through economical slavery, but has it got a
|-real- army? (Japan now cannot have an army since it lost WWII)

Japan currently has a very well armed defense force (almost everything
purchased from the US), which for all practical purposes is an army except
by name.

|> The rest of the
|> countries in the area would probably have either followed China's example,
|> or fought wars with each other to radically alter the map of the
|> continent, IMHO.
|
|What about INDIA? India is the classic place that could become a
|MAJOR power with the awakening! It's got the people, it has got the
|territory, a (now) stable government, a (minor) development in
|economics, and of course it's got the magical background!!!

VITAS. It was devestating for high density population areas with poor
sanitary conditions. Combine India's population density, their lack of
sanitary sewage handling, and a couple monsoons and... Not much left
of India after that.

-David

/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~
Message no. 5
From: Pete Sims <petesims@********.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: (Fwd) Re: RE> RE: New project!
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 01:50:03 +0100
In article <9609292347.AA08170@******>, David Buehrer
<dbuehrer@****.org> writes
[snip Asia/Japan ideas]

>|> The rest of the
>|> countries in the area would probably have either followed China's example,
>|> or fought wars with each other to radically alter the map of the
>|> continent, IMHO.
>|
>|What about INDIA? India is the classic place that could become a
>|MAJOR power with the awakening! It's got the people, it has got the
>|territory, a (now) stable government, a (minor) development in
>|economics, and of course it's got the magical background!!!
>
>VITAS. It was devestating for high density population areas with poor
>sanitary conditions. Combine India's population density, their lack of
>sanitary sewage handling, and a couple monsoons and... Not much left
>of India after that.

I'd have to disagree, India has a centuries long history of survival,
they threw the British out, survivied monsoons and unsanitary conditions
for centuries, they are in the process of fighting a resurgence of
Leprosy (I think) at the moment. So, VITAS/UGE, etc would certainly
take it's toll of the country, but as for finishing it off, nope, can't
swallow that. India has a population larger than Europe and America put
together. That's a *lot* of people.

<cloak on>
Pete

--
Pete Sims
Message no. 6
From: Pete Sims <petesims@********.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: (Fwd) Re: RE> RE: New project!
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 01:46:00 +0100
In article <199609291811.NAA24452@***.ncweb.com>, "Steven A. Tinner"
<bluewizard@*****.com> writes
>>What about INDIA? India is the classic place that could become a
>>MAJOR power with the awakening! It's got the people, it has got the
>>territory, a (now) stable government, a (minor) development in
>>economics, and of course it's got the magical background!!!
>
>They have a very well developed mythology to draw from as well.
>Check out the Wild Cards Abroad book for a take on an awakened India.
>
Hi, decided to de-cloak for a mo'.

Don't know if it would be of any use, but in I'm in the process of
converting a novel (F. Paul Wilson's "The Tomb") for SR, I had to do
quite a bit of research into Indian Mythology and stuff, Once I've
finished writing the game I'd be quite happy to donate it, and the
source material if anyone's interested.

[snip arctic & ice comments]

Pete
--
Pete Sims
Message no. 7
From: chaos@*****.com (Steven Ratkovich)
Subject: Re: (Fwd) Re: RE> RE: New project!
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 00:13:44 -0500 (EST)
>Japan currently has a very well armed defense force (almost everything
>purchased from the US), which for all practical purposes is an army except
>by name.
>
Yeah,theycall it their Godzilla Force, and claim that it protects their
Country from the giant monsters...;-)




#######################################################
# -Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich #
# chaos@*****.com #
# Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours? #
#######################################################

"I say we go back to the ship, and nuke the
site from Orbit. It's the only way to be sure."
-Ripley, "Aliens"
Message no. 8
From: bluewizard@*****.com (Steven A. Tinner)
Subject: Re: (Fwd) Re: RE> RE: New project!
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 00:20:08 -0500 (EST)
>|About Japan. We should (if we can) detail HOW can one country with
>|almost no territory get to be a _real_ world power. Of course, it can
>|get to be like that through economical slavery, but has it got a
>|-real- army? (Japan now cannot have an army since it lost WWII)
>
>Japan currently has a very well armed defense force (almost everything
>purchased from the US), which for all practical purposes is an army except
>by name.

And here I was under the impression that Japan still had no military!
That's why all the giant monsters attack them first after all! :-)



FAMOUS LAST WORDS
"Stop handing me things that come apart!"
Message no. 9
From: olafurg@******.is (olafur gunnarsson)
Subject: Re: (Fwd) Re: RE> RE: New project!
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 05:52:57 GMT
>>|About Japan. We should (if we can) detail HOW can one country with
>>|almost no territory get to be a _real_ world power. Of course, it can
>>|get to be like that through economical slavery, but has it got a
>>|-real- army? (Japan now cannot have an army since it lost WWII)
>>
>>Japan currently has a very well armed defense force (almost everything
>>purchased from the US), which for all practical purposes is an army except
>>by name.
>
>And here I was under the impression that Japan still had no military!
>That's why all the giant monsters attack them first after all! :-)
>
As far as i know Japan Has something like a standing army of 25000 formed
upon the request of the American goverment during the korean war but it isnt
called
an army i think its something like Provincial police forces with tanks and
fighter jets:). Also think of this there are a lot of American Military
bases on the japanese isles wich japan would have been able to take over
when the NBA pulls out.The japs could then split thier current army into
smaller components
to train rookies quickly within six months of doing so they could have anything
up to 100.000 troops under arms deployed in 10 divisons or split into smaller
units. This off course is a wery optismistic estimate Japan would have to
have an immense stockpile of weapons to be able to train this many but even
with weapons that they have stockpiled plus whatewer they could get from the
americans pulled out they should have been able to field a sizable army.
Wich i think they would since just accross the sea there are two large
hostile nations China and Russia (remember that these nations are still
around in 2011).
and even with thier internal problems gaining control of the industrialized
japanese isles and the strategic military bases might tempt them to attack.
So it isnt impossible that japan might get into a few border wars with
Russia over the Kuriles and with the Chinese over other territory creating a
need for a large japanese military. When Russia and china break down Japan
would emerge as the areas main military and economic power.Making it
possible for them to set up
enclaves in free cal china and even former Russian territorys. To gain
control over vital resources oil and food procucing areas would be main
targets since
Japan isnt self sufficient in these areas.
>
>
> FAMOUS LAST WORDS
> "Stop handing me things that come apart!"
>
Message no. 10
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: (Fwd) Re: RE> RE: New project!
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 12:23:50 +0100
And this was my reply:

------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
From: Self <Single-user mode>
To: Falco@****.iT
Subject: Re: RE> RE: New project!
Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 13:41:11 +0100

Paolo Falco (FoxMaster) said on 1:18/28 Sep 96...

> I seem to recall from "Harlequin" that soemthing like that happens in
> Southern Germany too... (You know, the "putsch-pooch really very
> funny joke") But I haven't got Germany's HB, so... I was just
> wondering what has happened to say, Austria, And most of the eastern
> countries.

Yeah, from H, Germany is pretty fragmented as well. However, the Germany
Sourcebook writers didn't really follow through on that. Germany consists
of a number of states, all semi-independent (like the US is now).

> Where exactly are "Desert Wars" fought? In Africa or... Uh. Well, the
> only other major deserts I can think of are either in the middle east
> or the Gobi.

In the Sahara, which covers most of northern Africa.

> (as a matter of fact, _what exactly_ are the desert wars?)

Corporate wargames fought with real soldiers. They put up TV cameras and
make the whole thing into a TV show, so they can make money off it too.

> About Japan. We should (if we can) detail HOW can one country with
> almost no territory get to be a _real_ world power. Of course, it can
> get to be like that through economical slavery, but has it got a
> -real- army? (Japan now cannot have an army since it lost WWII)

Japan has an army, and has had once since the 1950s. In SR, Japanese
marines landed in San Francisco. However, I think Japan got to be a world
power because of its economic rather than military abilities.

> What about INDIA? India is the classic place that could become a
> MAJOR power with the awakening! It's got the people, it has got the
> territory, a (now) stable government, a (minor) development in
> economics, and of course it's got the magical background!!!

Yeah, I was thinking of that as well. India would be a force to be
reckoned with, also since they've got a large and well-equipped army
(nukes included).

> One word: Patagonia. Or: What about polar bases and killer mutant
> penguins? :) Maybe you know that the antarctic was splitted evenly
> between the major powers. Has it become a differenc country? Is there
> people living in the antarctic? Same goes for the Arctic, of course,
> except that there are no killer penguins :)

Anything in the Antarctic would probably still be research stations, but
who knows? Maybe it's totally deserted... Maybe not :)

> > * North America: since this is outlined in the SR books in broad terms for
> > the most part, we could write about smaller areas, like Cleveland :)
>
> And Fresno.

What?

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
If I had it my way I'd hear you say that it's okay.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 11
From: "Sascha Pabst" <Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.DE>
Subject: Re: (Fwd) Re: RE> RE: New project!
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 13:37:45 +0000
On 30 Sep 96 at 0:20, Steven A. Tinner wrote:
[snip]
> >Japan currently has a very well armed defense force (almost everything
> >purchased from the US), which for all practical purposes is an army except
> >by name.
>
> And here I was under the impression that Japan still had no military!
> That's why all the giant monsters attack them first after all! :-)
See pp.13-29 NAGNA, esp. p.15:"Whatever the original plan, Japanese troops
were now in San Francisco.", p. 18: "Summary execution by the Imperial Marines
usually follows." (Nice Example, eh? :-),
Or see California Free State (FASA 7209, ISBN1-55560-193-6) (whole book, esp.
pp. 52-71)

Sascha
--
+---___---------+----------------------------------------+--------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst | "If we had to buy |
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de|you, you wouldn't be|
| \___ __/ | | worth the price." |
|==== \_/ ======| *Wearing hats is just a way of life* | - E. Weatherwax |
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | (T. Pratchett)|
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+
Message no. 12
From: HEDGEHOC@****.DE (Niclas Meier)
Subject: Re: (Fwd) Re: RE> RE: New project!
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 96 8:31:00 GMT
## Nachricht vom 30.09.96 weitergeleitet
## Ursprung : HEDGEHOC
## Ersteller: HEDGEHOC@****.de

> > * Europe: Northern Europe is pretty much as it is now, but a bit worse
> > for wear. Southern Europe (below the level of the Alps, I'd guess) has
> > fallen back to city states and ethnic enclaves, fighting little wars with
> > each other on occasion.
>
> I seem to recall from "Harlequin" that soemthing like that happens in
> Southern Germany too... (You know, the "putsch-pooch really very
> funny joke") But I haven't got Germany's HB, so... I was just
> wondering what has happened to say, Austria, And most of the eastern
> countries.

There will be an new Germany sourcebook with some improvements. Even with
some new about Swiss. I hope it will be better than the last one ...
BUt you are righte there are no real news about Russia and so .... Where
are their Nukes? Are theren any 'Top Secret' KGB-Lab's playing around with
'meta' - Human Genes ... ??? Very intersing possebilities

> > * Africa: hardly any information at all, so this is open ground for
> > whatever we want to write about.
>
> Where exactly are "Desert Wars" fought? In Africa or... Uh. Well, the
> only other major deserts I can think of are either in the middle east
> or the Gobi. (as a matter of fact, _what exactly_ are the desert
> wars?)

Everyone talks about, but no one really knows ....

> What about INDIA? India is the classic place that could become a
> MAJOR power with the awakening! It's got the people, it has got the
> territory, a (now) stable government, a (minor) development in
> economics, and of course it's got the magical background!!!

Did it ever get rid of their social system ..... ???

> One word: Patagonia. Or: What about polar bases and killer mutant
> penguins? :) Maybe you know that the antarctic was splitted evenly
> between the major powers. Has it become a differenc country? Is there
> people living in the antarctic? Same goes for the Arctic, of course,
> except that there are no killer penguins :)

Why countrys ... maybe Ares bought it to mine ice ... ??

Niclas
Message no. 13
From: Jens Hage <jhage@**.COM>
Subject: Re: (Fwd) Re: RE> RE: New project!
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 09:07:37 -0500 (CDT)
On Mon, 30 Sep 1996, Niclas Meier wrote:
>
> There will be an new Germany sourcebook with some improvements. Even with
> some new about Swiss. I hope it will be better than the last one ...
> BUt you are righte there are no real news about Russia and so .... Where
> are their Nukes? Are theren any 'Top Secret' KGB-Lab's playing around with
> 'meta' - Human Genes ... ??? Very intersing possebilities

Being an irrepressible type of guy, I'd love to write an "Island of Dr.
Moreau" type of area, say in Siberia or somewhere like that. Sort of a
runner's legend thing, with no _solid_ information... Except for the
mysterious... Anyway, I think my point is made. :)

Jens "Meow" Hage
Message no. 14
From: The Jestyr <s421539@*******.gu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: (Fwd) Re: RE> RE: New project!
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 10:14:32 +1000 (EST)
>
> One word: Patagonia. Or: What about polar bases and killer mutant
> penguins? :)


Waaaaaahoooooooo! I've just thought of a new totem! :)

<blush> Sorry. :)


Lady Jestyr

------------------------------------------------------
A titanic intellect... in a world full of icebergs
------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes s421539@*****.student.gu.edu.au
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1503
------------------------------------------------------

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