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Message no. 1
From: Wordman <wordman@*******.COM>
Subject: Stats (was Re: My thoughts on the matter)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 12:20:49 -0400
Steven A. Tinner wrote:
>Also, if we want to make Players acessible to new GM's - a line I hear
>bandied about a lot, ten we DO need stats made up for at least SOME of the
>NPCs in the book!

If we do stats, I'd like to suggest something that's worked for me pretty
well in the past to give the reader a guideline as to how tough an NPC is. I
start from archetypes, and then spend money and karma until I reach the
stats I want for the NPC. Then, listed with the NPC is the cost in karma and
cash of getting them where they are now. Since GMs should know about how
much karma their PCs have received, this gives them a good idea of relative
power levels.

Wordman
Message no. 2
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Stats (was Re: My thoughts on the matter)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 13:39:14 -0400
>>Also, if we want to make Players acessible to new GM's - a line I hear
>>bandied about a lot, ten we DO need stats made up for at least SOME of the
>>NPCs in the book!
>
>If we do stats, I'd like to suggest something that's worked for me pretty
>well in the past to give the reader a guideline as to how tough an NPC is.
I
>start from archetypes, and then spend money and karma until I reach the
>stats I want for the NPC. Then, listed with the NPC is the cost in karma
and
>cash of getting them where they are now. Since GMs should know about how
>much karma their PCs have received, this gives them a good idea of relative
>power levels.

That's a good idea. I had considered simply using the SRC point based build
system, and simply listing how many build points each NPC used, but your way
will be more useful for new players/GM;s.

Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://listen.to/Tinner
"Legless Dogs!" - Jargon Al, The Sifl & Olly Show
Message no. 3
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Stats (was Re: My thoughts on the matter)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 14:44:06 -0400
At 01:39 PM 8/22/98 -0400, Steven A. Tinner wrote these timeless words:

>That's a good idea. I had considered simply using the SRC point based build
>system, and simply listing how many build points each NPC used, but your way
>will be more useful for new players/GM;s.
>
Also keep in mind that once you've spent the Build Points, the system does
NOT reflect Karma/Cash/Whatever. The points get really screwy from there
on... After all, one build point will get you f rom skill 6 to skill 7
(technically :)). Normally that's like 14 Karma points...

I like the idea of, IF we use stats, using the Karma to give appropriate
power levels, or at least using general Karma Ranges for a Rating system...

Bull
--
Bull -- The Best Ork Decker You Never Met
chaos@*****.com ===== bull22@***********.com
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604

=======================================================
= =
= Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any Fours? =
= =
=======================================================

"Can the Gummi Worms really live in peace with the Marshmallow Chicks?"
-- Pinky, "Pinky and the Brain"
Message no. 4
From: "Mark J. Steedman" <Mark@******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Stats (was Re: My thoughts on the matter)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 18:31:04 +0000
Wordman writes

> Steven A. Tinner wrote:
> >Also, if we want to make Players acessible to new GM's - a line I hear
> >bandied about a lot, ten we DO need stats made up for at least SOME of the
> >NPCs in the book!
>
> If we do stats, I'd like to suggest something that's worked for me pretty
> well in the past to give the reader a guideline as to how tough an NPC is. I
> start from archetypes, and then spend money and karma until I reach the
> stats I want for the NPC. Then, listed with the NPC is the cost in karma and
> cash of getting them where they are now. Since GMs should know about how
> much karma their PCs have received, this gives them a good idea of relative
> power levels.
>

I have been building NPC's or the important ones anyway on karma
totals for a long time, it works well and given a common set of
starting rules gives a very good guideline as to how powerful
characters really are. You can only compare PC's starting froma
similar premise such as the SR2 archtypes of 'atts / skills up to 6
wired 2 is decent initative for sammies and heacy pistols assault
rifles and armour jackets. Magicians have a few foci, medium
strength spells' and so on. Character starting from the ganger rules
can require 100 karma and 500,00 yen to reach these levels and tooled
starting characters can kill 100 karma non tooled ones easily but
thats generally common sense.

Tracking money as well would help, especially for riggers! (or when
the PC's find beta and delta grade shadowclinics :( , it was still
fun thoguh <evil evil GM grin :)>)

My solution to the 'threat / relative power' rules in the companion
was to make it effective kamr, so superior opponents instread of
being 2 rating points better became 150% karma total! yes this can
produce some awesome characters but having to spend karma keeps crazy
skill levels in check is style! and as FASA said over Harlequin, give
it stats and someone can kill it :)

As to SR3, well my current thought is selve the debate till we all
read it, i have next to no hope of having it and the time to digest
it till the end of next month, i suspect long term unless FASA really
have done something to drastically alter the game balance (having
seen a little of 1st ed there are big differences in what a magician
wants high when spell force not sorcery skill is the resistance
target number to resist!) i would say SR3 because sooner or later we
must all convert (well most, there are going to be some now 2
editions behind but as FASA'a game police seem to have become Dragon
food no problem).

Mark
http://www.mist77.demon.co.uk
Message no. 5
From: Sasquatch <ab130f92@*******.ADELPHI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Stats (was Re: My thoughts on the matter)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 18:11:01 -0400
I think we need to include SR2 in the postings. Conversions are fine. I
actually saw a copy of SR3 today. I don't think I'm going to buy it. You
can only get a softcover edition, and given my group I'm not going to have
them trash it. I con't believe thay only released the hardcover as a
limited edition. It really pisses me off. If a rulebooks going to last more
then a month it needs to be hradcover. Maybe it's just me but I don't think
I'll be buting it at all. It just seems to me like they're trying to cut
costs. I already wrote them and complained. I know it's off topic but does
anyone agree with me or am I just being stupid.



Sasquatch

---------------------------------------------------------------
| |
| I'm for peace -- I've yet to see a man wake up in |
| the morning and say "I've just had a good war." |
| -- Mae West |
| |
| |
| ab130f92@*******.adelphi.edu |
| FurrySasquatch@********.att.net |
| ICQ# 10740831 |
---------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 6
From: Adam J <adamj@*********.HTML.COM>
Subject: Re: Stats (was Re: My thoughts on the matter)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 18:55:14 -0600
At 18:11 8/27/98 -0400, you wrote:
>I think we need to include SR2 in the postings. Conversions are fine. I
>actually saw a copy of SR3 today. I don't think I'm going to buy it. You
>can only get a softcover edition, and given my group I'm not going to have
>them trash it. I con't believe thay only released the hardcover as a
>limited edition. It really pisses me off. If a rulebooks going to last more
>then a month it needs to be hradcover. Maybe it's just me but I don't think
>I'll be buting it at all. It just seems to me like they're trying to cut
>costs. I already wrote them and complained. I know it's off topic but does
>anyone agree with me or am I just being stupid.

I wouldn't say you're being "stupid", but IMO letting the way a book is
published getting in the way of what I see as a marked improvement is
rather silly.

Then again, I seem to be the only person who takes care of my books -- my
SR2 softcover is up to 4 years and counting, and that's daily use.

If the book falls apart, big deal -- toss it in a binder. It's the game,
not the book that's the important thing here.

-Adam J
-
< TSS Productions down temporarily - New URL Soon! / fro@***.ab.ca >
< ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader / TSA Co-Admin / ICQ# 2350330 >
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Message no. 7
From: Mik & Caroline <legion@******.NET.AU>
Subject: Re: Stats (was Re: My thoughts on the matter)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 11:04:25 +1000
Sasquatch wrote:
>
> I think we need to include SR2 in the postings. Conversions are fine. I
> actually saw a copy of SR3 today. I don't think I'm going to buy it. You
> can only get a softcover edition, and given my group I'm not going to have
> them trash it. I con't believe thay only released the hardcover as a
> limited edition. It really pisses me off. If a rulebooks going to last more
> then a month it needs to be hradcover. Maybe it's just me but I don't think
> I'll be buting it at all. It just seems to me like they're trying to cut
> costs. I already wrote them and complained. I know it's off topic but does
> anyone agree with me or am I just being stupid.
>

nah, you're not being stupid, i agree with you

In the Land Down Under, we won't see the SR3 for 2-3 months yet, so i
agree, we should have SR2 stats included

I also agree that having the BABY as softcover is BAD.
All my SR2 copies (4) are falling apart due to usage. Hardcover is
definitely preferably

Mik
Message no. 8
From: Geoff Skellams <geoff.skellams@*********.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Stats (was Re: My thoughts on the matter)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 11:15:06 +1000
On Net Enhancements for Roleplaying Shadowrun, Mik &
Caroline[SMTP:legion@******.NET.AU] wrote:
> In the Land Down Under, we won't see the SR3 for 2-3 months yet, so i
> agree, we should have SR2 stats included
>
That's not quite right. An old school friend of mine in Brisbane
has a copy of SR3 right now (Tim Burke from the ShadowRN list). He got
it mail order through Military Simulations in Melbourne.

cheers
G

--
Geoff Skellams R&D - TOWER Software
Email Address: geoff.skellams@*********.com.au
Homepage: http://www.towersoft.com.au/staff/geoff/
ICQ Number: 2815165

"That rates about a 9.5 on my weird-shit-o-meter"
- Will Smith in "Men in Black"
Message no. 9
From: Sasquatch <ab130f92@*******.ADELPHI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Stats (was Re: My thoughts on the matter)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 22:08:57 -0400
>I wouldn't say you're being "stupid", but IMO letting the way a book is
>published getting in the way of what I see as a marked improvement is
>rather silly.

Since I've got a compilation of SR and SR2 rules already a new set isn't an
improvement. Just more work. And no I can't in good consciousness just
throw out all of the old stuff in favor of the new. Anything to radical and
the whole style of the game goes south. When SR2 came out my group was
screwed for a couple of sessions trying to get used to the SR2 rules, so we
instead adapted and combined until we got settled. Probably makes me the
only person not looking forward to seeing these new rules. I also went to
their site. They were selling the softcover for $30 US, same price as the
"Out of Stock" hardcover. My local store was selling them for $25 US. Since
when is buying direct more expense then going through a middle man. Just
seems to me that they know softcovers are planned obselesence, and they're
just trying go make more money cause we'll have to replace them. They whole
thing just strikes me as BS, and I hate BS.



Sasquatch

---------------------------------------------------------------
| |
| I'm for peace -- I've yet to see a man wake up in |
| the morning and say "I've just had a good war." |
| -- Mae West |
| |
| |
| ab130f92@*******.adelphi.edu |
| FurrySasquatch@********.att.net |
| ICQ# 10740831 |
---------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 10
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Stats (was Re: My thoughts on the matter)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 22:21:52 -0400
>I wouldn't say you're being "stupid", but IMO letting the way a book is
>published getting in the way of what I see as a marked improvement is
>rather silly.

I don't.
IMO FASA made a HUGE mistake making the hardback a limited edition.
Back when SR2 came out that was a good/novel idea.
At that point, NO ONE did HB books, except for the wealthy TSR.
However, today, everyone and their dog does HB.
WW, TSR, Pinnacle, West End (used to) the list goes on and on.
A limited edition would be great if it was truly something special, like the
leather bound Hell on Earth game Pinnacle did for Gen Con.
However as big as that softcover is, it WILL fall apart rapidly. I've had
mine for TWO days and the cover will not close completely.
I have not loaned it to anyone. I have not used it for a game yet. I have
only placed it flat on a table for reading, and it is already showing wear.
That is a BAD way for a new book to act!
Make a limited edition, but also make a regular HB. That seems the sensible
way to go IMO.
Softbacks piss me off.

>Then again, I seem to be the only person who takes care of my books -- my
>SR2 softcover is up to 4 years and counting, and that's daily use.

I TREASURE my SR books.
However they get CONSTANT use.
When I have time, I read them, we use them for games, I flip through them
for ideas.
Whenever I get to play there is almost always some travel involved. Putting
the book in a duffell bag with other books, dice, etc. adds to the wear and
tear. There's no way to avoid it.

>If the book falls apart, big deal -- toss it in a binder. It's the game,
>not the book that's the important thing here.

I agree, but it's easier to play with the book, than without! ;-)

In a perfect world softbacks would last forever.

Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://listen.to/Tinner
"Save the whales! Trade them for valuable prizes."
Message no. 11
From: Adam J <adamj@*********.HTML.COM>
Subject: Re: Stats (was Re: My thoughts on the matter)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 21:33:05 -0600
At 11:04 8/28/98 +1000, you wrote:

>In the Land Down Under, we won't see the SR3 for 2-3 months yet, so i
>agree, we should have SR2 stats included

Err.. it's already out in Australia, or at least it is in Brisbane, because
I know people that have it..

-Adam
-
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Message no. 12
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Stats (was Re: My thoughts on the matter)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 13:19:14 +1000
>nah, you're not being stupid, i agree with you
>
>In the Land Down Under, we won't see the SR3 for 2-3 months yet, so i
>agree, we should have SR2 stats included

Ahem. Not true. My local gaming store in Brisbane has had the softcover SR3
in for the past week, priced at $49.95 AUS. Sorry.

>All my SR2 copies (4) are falling apart due to usage. Hardcover is
>definitely preferably

This is a moot point. FASA just aren't making non-limited hardbacks. Saying
that hardcovers are preferable is all very nice, and all very true, but it
won't do you any good. Especially not saying it here - we don't work for
FASA, do we?

Lady Jestyr

- Eagles may soar, but turkeys don't get sucked into jet engines. -
jestyr@*******.com.au URL: http://www.geocities.com/~jestyr
Message no. 13
From: Sasquatch <ab130f92@*******.ADELPHI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Stats (was Re: My thoughts on the matter)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 23:35:46 -0400
>This is a moot point. FASA just aren't making non-limited hardbacks. Saying
>that hardcovers are preferable is all very nice, and all very true, but it
>won't do you any good. Especially not saying it here - we don't work for
>FASA, do we?


True, but if you agree with the fact that the hardcover books are better
then do what I did. Bitch at FASA. E-mail them and express your
displeasure. If we don't say anything then it won't change. It might not
change anyway, but we've all spend hard earned money on them. That gives us
a right to tell them what we want. If we make a big enough stink maybe
they'll publish more editions of the hardcover. If not, well at least you
got a chance to vent. Keeping it bottled up isn't good for you, or your
players if your a GM. hehehe



Sasquatch

---------------------------------------------------------------
| |
| I'm for peace -- I've yet to see a man wake up in |
| the morning and say "I've just had a good war." |
| -- Mae West |
| |
| |
| ab130f92@*******.adelphi.edu |
| FurrySasquatch@********.att.net |
| ICQ# 10740831 |
---------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 14
From: Adam J <adamj@*********.HTML.COM>
Subject: Re: Stats (was Re: My thoughts on the matter)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 21:48:30 -0600
At 22:08 8/27/98 -0400, you wrote:
>>I wouldn't say you're being "stupid", but IMO letting the way a book is
>>published getting in the way of what I see as a marked improvement is
>>rather silly.
>
>Since I've got a compilation of SR and SR2 rules already a new set isn't an
>improvement.

Then this really has nothing to do with your likes for a Soft/Hardback, and
everything to do with the game system, which is a concern that I can
understand.

Just more work. And no I can't in good consciousness just
>throw out all of the old stuff in favor of the new. Anything to radical and
>the whole style of the game goes south. When SR2 came out my group was
>screwed for a couple of sessions trying to get used to the SR2 rules, so we
>instead adapted and combined until we got settled. Probably makes me the
>only person not looking forward to seeing these new rules.

The changes aren't all that drastic, and some of the better changes can be
integrated fairly easily, like open tests for Stealth and that sort of thing.

>I also went to
>their site. They were selling the softcover for $30 US, same price as the
>"Out of Stock" hardcover. My local store was selling them for $25 US. Since
>when is buying direct more expense then going through a middle man.

Probably because FASA needs to make back the money that the site costs them
to run, and I would imagine it's not cheap.

> Just
>seems to me that they know softcovers are planned obselesence, and they're
>just trying go make more money cause we'll have to replace them.

Like I said -- I've been using my SR2 softcover for 4 years, and it's in
rough shape, but not losing pages and no major tears, just dog earned
corners and a creased cover from where I dropped it down the stairs once.

SR3 probably won't be as hardy because it's some 35 pages bigger, but like
I said before -- if it breaks, toss it in a binder.

-Adam J

-
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< FreeRPG & Shadowrun Webring Admin / The Shadowrun Supplemental >
< "Raven loves me! He just bought me a new rubber ducky!" - Lodi >
Message no. 15
From: Sasquatch <ab130f92@*******.ADELPHI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Stats (was Re: My thoughts on the matter)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 23:59:39 -0400
>>Since I've got a compilation of SR and SR2 rules already a new set isn't an
>>improvement.
>
>Then this really has nothing to do with your likes for a Soft/Hardback, and
>everything to do with the game system, which is a concern that I can
>understand.

No. I'm not happy about the hard/soft deal. I just wasn't looking forward
to extensive changes. From the responses I've seen tonight I'm not so
worried anymore. I was expecting major overhaul, not minor tweaks.

>Like I said -- I've been using my SR2 softcover for 4 years, and it's in
>rough shape, but not losing pages and no major tears, just dog earned
>corners and a creased cover from where I dropped it down the stairs once.
>
>SR3 probably won't be as hardy because it's some 35 pages bigger, but like
>I said before -- if it breaks, toss it in a binder.

I've had my SR rulebook for 9 years and no problems. Period. If I buy it I
don't want it to break, and a hardcover won't. We'll see if FASA writes
back tomorrow. I doubt it but I'd be curious to see their excuse.



Sasquatch

---------------------------------------------------------------
| |
| I'm for peace -- I've yet to see a man wake up in |
| the morning and say "I've just had a good war." |
| -- Mae West |
| |
| |
| ab130f92@*******.adelphi.edu |
| FurrySasquatch@********.att.net |
| ICQ# 10740831 |
---------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 16
From: Predator Omega <predator.omega@*******.BAYNET.DE>
Subject: Re: Stats (was Re: My thoughts on the matter)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 12:17:08 +0200
Sasquatch schrieb:

> I've had my SR rulebook for 9 years and no problems. Period. If I buy it I
> don't want it to break, and a hardcover won't. We'll see if FASA writes
> back tomorrow. I doubt it but I'd be curious to see their excuse.

It's really funny, thinking about this. There are some thousend kilometers between us and
we're all facing the same
probles. It get's me a warm feeling imagining all this ductaped SR-books, cause my copy
looks quite the same. I'm in the
good position of having hard covers both SR1 and SR2, I hope the german distributor FANPRO
will translate it soon an
sell it as a hardcover too.
On the downside is that I won't have the chance of even thaking a look at the limited
edition, because it won't reach
Germany. I guess most of them will be sold in US or have already been sold.

Pred
Message no. 17
From: Matthew Jubb <matthew.jubb@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Stats (was Re: My thoughts on the matter)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 11:19:55 +0100
Excuse me for sounding stupid..

But I only subscribed a couple of days ago and therefore missed a lot of the
conversations.

What the hell are you all on about? The state of your Shadowrun rulebooks??

Maybe I'd better not ask.

Matt
Message no. 18
From: Unknown be gone <vwookiee@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Stats (was Re: My thoughts on the matter)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 03:34:40 PDT
>>In the Land Down Under, we won't see the SR3 for 2-3 months yet, so i
>>agree, we should have SR2 stats included
>
>Err.. it's already out in Australia, or at least it is in Brisbane,
because
>I know people that have it..
>
>-Adam

Yeah but military simulations doesnt use the regular channels of
distrubution youll find so for regular shelf stock ild guess at 2-3
mths.

-kroftx


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Message no. 19
From: Adam J <adamj@*********.HTML.COM>
Subject: Re: Stats (was Re: My thoughts on the matter)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 04:41:35 -0600
At 11:19 8/28/98 +0100, you wrote:
>Excuse me for sounding stupid..

You don't.

>What the hell are you all on about? The state of your Shadowrun rulebooks??

Yes. Basically we're deciding whether the upcoming NERPS books should have
SR2 stats with SR3 conversions or SR3 stats with SR2 conversions..

By the way everyone, we should look at wrapping up discussion about the new
project, so we have something "final" to say to Gurth when he comes back
and tries to turn NERPS into a magazine.. :/

-Adam
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Message no. 20
From: David Foster <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
Subject: Re: Stats (was Re: My thoughts on the matter)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 09:04:09 -0400
On Fri, 28 Aug 1998, Lady Jestyr wrote:

->>All my SR2 copies (4) are falling apart due to usage. Hardcover is
->>definitely preferably
->
->This is a moot point. FASA just aren't making non-limited hardbacks. Saying
->that hardcovers are preferable is all very nice, and all very true, but it
->won't do you any good. Especially not saying it here - we don't work for
->FASA, do we?
->
->Lady Jestyr

Oh, I dunno, have you seen the amount of advertising we've been
doing? We should be on the payroll.... ]:-)

Fixer --------------} The easy I do before breakfast,
the difficult I do all day long,
the impossible only during the week,
and miracles performed on an as-needed basis....

Now tell me, what was your problem?
Message no. 21
From: Mik & Caroline <legion@******.NET.AU>
Subject: Re: Stats (was Re: My thoughts on the matter)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 00:54:33 +1000
Lady Jestyr wrote:
>
> >nah, you're not being stupid, i agree with you
> >
> >In the Land Down Under, we won't see the SR3 for 2-3 months yet, so i
> >agree, we should have SR2 stats included
>
> Ahem. Not true. My local gaming store in Brisbane has had the softcover SR3
> in for the past week, priced at $49.95 AUS. Sorry.

Well, down here in Newcastle, i have talked to the owner of the main RPG
shop, and he's not interested in getting it in for another 2-3 months.
Despite receiving around 40 pre-orders for it so far.....
Then again, he's a right prick, an opinion i formed whilst working
for him in the same store

Ah well, i'll just have to order from MilSim in Melbourne

By-the-by, Lady J, how many stores up your way have RPG stuff??
Seeing as Brisbane is a little bit bigger than Newcastle, i hope you
have more than our measly 3


Mik

1 month to go, then Brisbane, here i come!

http://welcome.to/hangfires.home
Message no. 22
From: Tomus Cone <brother_1@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Stats (was Re: My thoughts on the matter)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 13:58:25 PDT
>>>In the Land Down Under, we won't see the SR3 for 2-3 months yet, so i
>>>agree, we should have SR2 stats included
>>
>>Err.. it's already out in Australia, or at least it is in Brisbane,
>because
>>I know people that have it..
>>
>>-Adam

Yes, but if you sent someone out to Hawaii with enough for everyone's
books, you could have it within that time frame. Maybe you know someone
on island who could advance order the stuff or something.



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Message no. 23
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Stats (was Re: My thoughts on the matter)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 14:54:51 +0100
Sasquatch said on 18:11/27 Aug 98,...

> I think we need to include SR2 in the postings. Conversions are fine. I
> actually saw a copy of SR3 today. I don't think I'm going to buy it. You
> can only get a softcover edition, and given my group I'm not going to have
> them trash it. I con't believe thay only released the hardcover as a
> limited edition. It really pisses me off.

I know what you mean -- I was lucky enough to be able to make
it to GC and get one there, but I'd much rather have seen it as
they did with 1st and 2nd editions, and put it on general release.

> If a rulebooks going to last more
> then a month it needs to be hradcover. Maybe it's just me but I don't think
> I'll be buting it at all. It just seems to me like they're trying to cut
> costs. I already wrote them and complained. I know it's off topic but does
> anyone agree with me or am I just being stupid.

You could always have a print shop (or whatever) turn it into a
hardback, like my local library does with nearly all their softcover
books. It'll cost you a bit of money, but not as much as having to
buy a couple of softbacks each year, I think.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Wanted: New signature line. Good prices paid. LTG# 3111 (856-6006)
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 24
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Stats (was Re: My thoughts on the matter)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 14:54:51 +0100
Adam J said on 4:41/28 Aug 98,...

> By the way everyone, we should look at wrapping up discussion about the new
> project, so we have something "final" to say to Gurth when he comes back

So did you succeed? :) (I haven't read all the way to the end of
my NERPS mail yet, but knowing NERPS I doubt there'll be a
conclusion in 8 messages...)

> and tries to turn NERPS into a magazine.. :/

Yes, I know you don't like the idea 100% :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Wanted: New signature line. Good prices paid. LTG# 3111 (856-6006)
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

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