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Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: Andrew Norman <A.J.Norman@******.AC.NZ>
Subject: Re: Stereotyping and NAGTTW
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 09:36:20 GMT00
I agree with the idea of not being to stereotypical.

But please note that the KIWI is not an australian bird, but one of
New Zealands native birds. I'm not sure if who ever mentioned the
kiwi was aware of this fact [Its not meant to sound like a flame :)].

-Andrew**********************************************************************
Email: a.j.norman@******.ac.nz (Preferred)
or: andrew@*********.massey.ac.nz
"Everything I said could be a lie, but then again I could be lying"
**********************************************************************
Message no. 2
From: Marty <s457033@*******.GU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Stereotyping and NAGTTW
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 11:32:40 +1000
> But please note that the KIWI is not an australian bird, but one of
> New Zealands native birds. I'm not sure if who ever mentioned the
> kiwi was aware of this fact [Its not meant to sound like a flame :)].
>
If you can think of anything interesting that could be an awakened
version of the Kiwi, post it to the list or to Jestyr; It's always better
to go direct to the people who live in the area.

How would you feel about NZ amalgamating with Aust in the source-book (No
flames please)... It's been an idea around for quite a while, and the
socio-economic situation could have demanded it.

NZ could quite possibly have a large geo-thermal power producing surplus,
and sell electricity to the rest of the world.
Message no. 3
From: Marty <s457033@*******.GU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Stereotyping and NAGTTW
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 11:29:27 +1000
> I deleted the message which I wanted to reply to so this will have to do.
> Whoever wanted awakened kangaroos etc in Australia should, I think,
> rethink his/her ideas.
>
Yay!!!! GO get 'em! Awakened kangaroos would be a little kitsch.

Drop Bears on the other hand.......I think they've got potential.
Message no. 4
From: "Paolo Falco (FoxMaster)" <Falco@****.IT>
Subject: Re: Stereotyping and NAGTTW
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 19:25:28 +0200
On 11 Oct 96, Andrew Norman wrote the FoxMaster about Re:
Stereotyping and NAGTTW:

> I agree with the idea of not being to stereotypical.

I Don't. Im fragging getting tired of this political correctness that
states that you should not be stereotypical therefore sterotypizing
the not being stereotypical thing. I hate it! And I think you should
notice that when I mention stereotypes I _always_ assume a VERY
joking tone, and this is because while stereotypes are fun (how many
jokes do you know about poles/italians/scottish/belgians/whatever?),
they are NOT a good thing in real life. But this is not real life,
this is a game, and games are meant to be fun, and if you think that
australia=kangaroos, then (as long as you don't actually _believe_
it) you can have some good fun on that, while still retaining some
sense of decency by mentioning that you should NOT confuse Australia
with Kangaroos. But then, the person that said that he knows some
americans think that all australians have kangaroos in their
backyards, is he not seriously relegating americans to the "stupid"
stereotype? SO, please, let's cut the crap on stereotypes, at least
until you have seriously nderstood what a stereotype is and why it
EXISTS (after all, it was BORN from something, wasn't it?), and, more
important, why you still sterotype every day others while you absolutely
do not stand it when it comes to stereotyping yourself.

> But please note that the KIWI is not an australian bird, but one of
> New Zealands native birds. I'm not sure if who ever mentioned the
> kiwi was aware of this fact

Here's the excerpt from my original mail:
> > I am not an aussie (did you notice?), but I *expect* from any serious
> > australian article to have at least an awakened form of Kangaroo and a
> > frorm of awakened Platypus! :) Not to mention awakened kiwis (OK, OK,
> > that's not australia, but so what? If the awakened kiwi can fly... :),
> > awakened Tasmanian devils (Any tasmanians out there?)...
Did you notice a little bit of the thing the Romantics (the '800
literary movement, not the heart-shaped chocolate box type) called
"WITZ"? Maybe you should read mails more carefully, and perhaps even
get some sense of humor (taht goes also, and perhaps even more to the
guy that was so enraged to the stereotype stuff, whose name is not
worth remembering).

Please, please, please. I escaped ShadowRN because of the whole
stereotype affair. Let's not start it here, eh? If you don't want to
do awakened kangaroos because you think they're too BANAL, that's OK
with me. It's your article, after all. But you cannot simply say it's
"stereotypical". It's just too darn short-sighted!

You LIVE in a aworld of stereotypes, don't escape them! MAKE FUN OF
THEM!

> [Its not meant to sound like a flame :)].

Mine neither.

> "Everything I said could be a lie, but then again I could be lying"

I was lying too.

------------------------------------------------------------------
Paolo Falco | "Boom of communications: everybody communi-
Ironbound Section | cates that he's communicating" (Altan)
------------------------------------------------------------------
Skater's Site And Generally Paradoxal Poetry Page With Lemmings at
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/2717
------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 5
From: NightLife <habenir@******.SAN.UC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Stereotyping and NAGTTW
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 16:40:04 -0700
Snip
>Drop Bears on the other hand.......I think they've got potential.

What's a drop bear?


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Nightlife Inc.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

If you have to ask then it's probably classified.
Which means that I have to follow protocol.
But if you ask nicley I might forget that you asked.
Then again maybe not.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Document Classified
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Message no. 6
From: Marty <s457033@*******.GU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Stereotyping and NAGTTW
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 14:27:08 +1000
> >Drop Bears on the other hand.......I think they've got potential.
>
> What's a drop bear?
>
An urban myth. Some people over here tell their kids and tourists about
them.

A drop bear is basically a carnivirous relative of the koala, which hides
in trees and waits for prey to pass beneath them. They drop on top of
the prey (usually kids or tourists for some reason) and rend them to death
with their inch long claws.

I don't know, but I think you could get a lot more mileage out of a
drop-bear than a kangaroo.

Another good few animals to 'awaken' would be a wombat, a tassie devil, the
funnel-web spider.... and a lot of our imported feral animals like the
pig, etc.
Message no. 7
From: Paolo Marcucci <paolo@*********.IT>
Subject: Re: Stereotyping and NAGTTW
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 09:54:15 +0200
Marty wrote:
>
> > >Drop Bears on the other hand.......I think they've got potential.
> >
> > What's a drop bear?
> >
> An urban myth. Some people over here tell their kids and tourists about
> them.

It WAS a myth (in SR world):

2011: On April 23, in Australia, the first reported sighting, and
subsequent attack, of the Carnivorous Koala, or Drop Bear, occurs when
one attacks Wildlife Ranger Patrick Stone of Sydney.

(taken from the Shadowrun Explorer)

Bye, Paolo
Message no. 8
From: Calvin Hsieh <u2172778@*******.ACSU.UNSW.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Stereotyping and NAGTTW
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 20:03:37 +1000
Paulo:

How much about the historical past (read future) of Australia is already
written. I would like to know as much as possible before starting the
article. I don't want to contradict anyone! Giving me the timeline would
be most graciously accepted.

Shaman
Message no. 9
From: Calvin Hsieh <u2172778@*******.ACSU.UNSW.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Stereotyping and NAGTTW
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 19:36:51 +1000
On Fri, 11 Oct 1996, Paolo Falco (FoxMaster) wrote:

> On 11 Oct 96, Andrew Norman wrote the FoxMaster about Re:
> Stereotyping and NAGTTW:
>
> > I agree with the idea of not being to stereotypical.
>
> I Don't. Im fragging getting tired of this political correctness that
> states that you should not be stereotypical therefore sterotypizing
> the not being stereotypical thing. I hate it! And I think you should
> notice that when I mention stereotypes I _always_ assume a VERY
> joking tone, and this is because while stereotypes are fun (how many
> jokes do you know about poles/italians/scottish/belgians/whatever?),
> they are NOT a good thing in real life. But this is not real life,
> this is a game, and games are meant to be fun, and if you think that
> australia=kangaroos, then (as long as you don't actually _believe_
> it) you can have some good fun on that, while still retaining some
> sense of decency by mentioning that you should NOT confuse Australia
> with Kangaroos. But then, the person that said that he knows some
> americans think that all australians have kangaroos in their
> backyards, is he not seriously relegating americans to the "stupid"
> stereotype? SO, please, let's cut the crap on stereotypes, at least
> until you have seriously nderstood what a stereotype is and why it
> EXISTS (after all, it was BORN from something, wasn't it?), and, more
> important, why you still sterotype every day others while you absolutely
> do not stand it when it comes to stereotyping yourself.
>
I am not saying that we should ignore awakened kangaroos or other
stereotypical views of places around the world. What I am saying is that
this view should not dominate the article. It should reflect a more
'rounded' view of the place.

Note also, I said *some* Americans. I am not bashing Americans here, I am
trying to demonstrate the power of stereotyping. *You* noticed I
stereotyped and you did not like it, so think about it!

> Please, please, please. I escaped ShadowRN because of the whole
> stereotype affair. Let's not start it here, eh? If you don't want to
> do awakened kangaroos because you think they're too BANAL, that's OK
> with me. It's your article, after all. But you cannot simply say it's
> "stereotypical". It's just too darn short-sighted!

I'm not trying to stir up an argument here OK? I will probably consider
awakened 'stereotypical' creatures, but in a more learned fashion. If you
don't want to play this way fine by me.

And you can't just argue that arguing about stereotyping is
short-sighted. It is a very important consideration in this series of
articles.

> > You LIVE in a aworld of
stereotypes, don't escape them! MAKE FUN OF > THEM!
>
Sure, I will. But you just don't go overboard.
Message no. 10
From: Paolo Marcucci <paolo@*********.IT>
Subject: Re: Stereotyping and NAGTTW
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 08:18:37 +0200
Calvin Hsieh wrote:
>
> Paulo:
>
> How much about the historical past (read future) of Australia is already
> written. I would like to know as much as possible before starting the
> article. I don't want to contradict anyone! Giving me the timeline would
> be most graciously accepted.

As already pointed out, Find Your Own Thruth is almost the only thing
FASA wrote about Australia. There are bits of info scattered throughout
the whole series of sourcebooks and those bits can be retrieved using
the shadowrun explorer on my archive. Sorry if this seems like
self-promotion, but I really think this thing will be useful for the
current NERPS project (sorry, Gurth, can't remember the acronym :)

If all goes well, I will write a piece about northeastern italy, If the
FoxMaster wants to join my efforts, we can develop the thing for the
whole Italy (!!!)

Bye, Paolo
Message no. 11
From: The Jestyr <s421539@*******.GU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Stereotyping and NAGTTW
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 07:47:58 +1000
> > How much about the historical past (read future) of Australia is already
> > written. I would like to know as much as possible before starting the
> > article. I don't want to contradict anyone! Giving me the timeline would
> > be most graciously accepted.
>
> As already pointed out, Find Your Own Thruth is almost the only thing
> FASA wrote about Australia. There are bits of info scattered throughout
> the whole series of sourcebooks and those bits can be retrieved using
> the shadowrun explorer on my archive. Sorry if this seems like
> self-promotion, but I really think this thing will be useful for the
> current NERPS project (sorry, Gurth, can't remember the acronym :)

Somebody posted a message about using the Shadowrun Explorer to find a
piece about drop bears being spotted in the 2030s sometime. If so, does
anyone know which piece of FASA bookage they come from?

Lady Jestyr

------------------------------------------------------
A titanic intellect... in a world full of icebergs
------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes s421539@*****.student.gu.edu.au
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1503
------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 12
From: Calvin Hsieh <u2172778@*******.acsu.unsw.edu.au>
Subject: Stereotyping and NAGTTW
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 22:36:56 +1000 (EST)
I deleted the message which I wanted to reply to so this will have to do.
Whoever wanted awakened kangaroos etc in Australia should, I think,
rethink his/her ideas.

I believe that the whole point of NAGTTW being written by those from the
area is to avoid stereotyping, and kangaroos and koalas are VERY
stereotypical for Australia. I do agree that these animals should be
included, but not to the extent I think you had in mind. (I know for a
fact that many Americans think we Aussies live with kangaroos in our
backyards!)

So, whoever you are, maybe you could rethink on your idea and get back to
Jestyr and me and we could collaborate!

Shaman

Further Reading

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These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!