| From: | Calvin Hsieh <u2172778@*******.ACSU.UNSW.EDU.AU> |
|---|---|
| Subject: | Re: Underwater breathing |
| Date: | Sun, 1 Dec 1996 13:13:13 +1100 |
> > > Just a thought use a internal air tank (cyber) then fill the lungs with
liquid
> > > and then go diving, then use the air in the tank to reinflate your lungs???
> > > (flame away I am not quite consious and what I just said might be a
loada...)
> > > >Shaman
> > > Tim (ntoo)
> > >
> > I thought about this. However, let's envisage this from a physiological
> > point of view. The alveolar of the lungs (where gas exchange takes place
> > between air and blood) expand against resistance and surface tension. It
> > uses surfactant to reduce this and also (most importantly) allow small
> > alveoli to reinflate before bloating up the larger ones. Removal of
> > surfactant with liquids has a devastating effect. So, in order to
> > include this idea, we have to incorporate a surfactant excreting
> > cyberware as well.
>
> Ahh, but there already is real liquid mediums to aid breathing. Liquid
> Perfluorocarbon Ventilation. Check it out. Being a liquid, the lungs
> are still inflated, they don't have to collapse. It was primarily used
> in premature infants, but recently it has undergone study for application
> for adults as well. Just thought I'd let you know, since I just read
> about it again last night at work --- I am a registered respiratory
> therapist and it was hanging in our break room. :)
Yeah, we were talking about it on NERPS a while back. I believe the US
military is already using it. NB: Movie called "Abyss"
>
>
> >
> > The other problem is the gas mixture. From memory (and name) the O2 gas
> > tank is pure O2.
> No, it doesn't have to be. You can put any mix you want in there. At
> the hospital we have varying mixes. Mostly pure oxygen tanks, granted,
> but we have two different heliox varieties, various mixes of regular air
> and anesthetic, and for machinery even tanks with oxygen, carbon dioxide,
> and nitrogen. So, you can put any gas mix you like in a tank.
My point was that the tank in SR was O2.
>
>
> > This has serious ramifications if we were to reinflate
> > with just O2. Hence, a better "air" mixture is needed. If reinflating
at
> > sea level, then an air mixture can be used. If in an underwater city or
> > something, then the pressure would require another mixture, to compensate
> > for the partial pressure of O2. So a helium/oxygen mix could be used.
>
> There is nothing wrong with using pure oxygen in tanks as I recall, unless
> you are an infant whereby you can get Retrolental Fibroplasia (RLF) and go
> blind like Stevie Wonder. Afterall, many patients at the hospital get
> pure 100% oxygen. Also, some patients on ventilators get 100% oxygen,
> which is important because they don't get any outside air entrainment.
> Oxygen doesn't cause alveolar collapse.
I believe from my physiology and clinical lectures there are. We humans
can handle up to a PO2 of 300mmHg. Any higher, such as under a couple of
atmospheres underwater, would give us severe O2 poisoning. Don't forget
that 10m of water is equal to 1atm pressure.
I know about the 100%O2 at hospital. But these are used in special
conditions where the ventilation/perfusion ratio of the alveoli are
extraordinarily out of whack. You must remember that 100%O2 would repress
the peripheral chemoreceptors. Also, the brain cannot take any large
amount of O2 for any period of time without suffering permanent damage. I
think you are not distinguishing between temporary therapeutic and long
term here. Shadowrunners do not suffer from CAL! :)
Shaman
>
> Just my respiratory two cents.
>
> Glenn
>
