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Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: Sascha Pabst <Sascha.Pabst@**********.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
Subject: About "In Between"
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 23:45:29 +0000
Hi

i have a question on Formats, since there came complaints already, although I
formated my message "In between" right for all I could find in the FAQ (other
then that I gforgot to remove my .signature... sorry).

I choose the header "INTERNAL" since in my opinion this was "behind the
scenes
plot developement". Although it did not go through Shadowland (which spirit
would use a deck?) it was still the only hint I could find at all.

Is there _any_ way to deliver non-electronic information? Or am I really bound
to equip all characters with vid-cams, voice-recorders and an enormous decking
skill?

Oh, and I _did_ think before i posted. I even found a reference of someone
else who did use a short story as medium a few days ago. Which makes -
according to the FAQ - sense, since I A) does not say only electronic mediums
might be used. So please help me with this one...

Sascha
Message no. 2
From: Mike Broadwater <neon@******.BACKBONE.OLEMISS.EDU>
Subject: Re: About "In Between"
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 16:53:30 -0500
>I choose the header "INTERNAL" since in my opinion this was "behind the
scenes
>plot developement". Although it did not go through Shadowland (which spirit
>would use a deck?) it was still the only hint I could find at all.
INTERNAL messages still pass through the matrix and are really supposed to
be used for corps or govt's that are passing information from one place to
another (from one office to another, or a teleconference call). For the
group you have know, you should still be using the PRIVATE flag.

>Is there _any_ way to deliver non-electronic information? Or am I really bound
>to equip all characters with vid-cams, voice-recorders and an enormous decking
>skill?
Yep.

>Oh, and I _did_ think before i posted. I even found a reference of someone
>else who did use a short story as medium a few days ago. Which makes -
>according to the FAQ - sense, since I A) does not say only electronic mediums
>might be used. So please help me with this one...

Well, that post wasn't right either. The FAQ says that all of the traffic
takes place over the ShadowLand BBS. Therefore, it follows that all the
media that passes through is electronic. You can write all the short
stories you want, and post them, but they should be within the confines of
the list definition, which is interactive fiction based off the shadowland
BBS. Unless you're character writes about how the feel a lot and then sends
it to everyone, the posts like you're previous shouldn't be done.

Mike Broadwater
"Love us with money or
we'll hate you with hammers."
-Milk and Cheese, Dairy Products Gone Bad
Message no. 3
From: Sascha Pabst <Sascha.Pabst@**********.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
Subject: Re: About "In Between"
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 08:29:35 +0000
On 15 Oct 96 at 16:53, Mike Broadwater wrote:
[snip]
> Well, that post wasn't right either. The FAQ says that all of the traffic
> takes place over the ShadowLand BBS. Therefore, it follows that all the
> media that passes through is electronic. You can write all the short
> stories you want, and post them, but they should be within the confines of
> the list definition, which is interactive fiction based off the shadowland
> BBS. Unless you're character writes about how the feel a lot and then sends
> it to everyone, the posts like you're previous shouldn't be done.
sorry, but... I may quote.
" Shadowtalk is an interactive fiction mailing list based on the
paper & pencil role-playing game Shadowrun, published by FASA.
Members of the list post as characters in genre, and by responding to
each other's posts "in character", stories are developed. These stories
may then be used by players and GMs alike as a basis for contacts,
NPCs, and adventure plots in their own campaigns."
I fail to see the mystic word "Shadowland" at all. Nothing, nada. OK, I agree
the Formats just cover electronic media, but this is a bit ... restrictive and
doesn't follow the lists intention per the FAQ.

And I do believe in In-Character play, and I do believe no spirit will ever
touch a computer, I do not want to reduce my style to "I have seen this, see
my vidcam/cybercam recording". Too restrictive (uh... I said that before).

Let me repeat my question: Which way is there to use non-electronic stylisms?

Sascha
Message no. 4
From: Justin Fang <justinf@****.CALTECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: About "In Between"
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 01:31:53 -0700
Sascha Pabst wrote:
>I fail to see the mystic word "Shadowland" at all. Nothing, nada. OK, I
agree
>the Formats just cover electronic media, but this is a bit ... restrictive and
>doesn't follow the lists intention per the FAQ.

Look at the FAQ, Part II, section 3, again:

A. Formatting Guidelines and Justifications
1. Why Format Correctly?

Proper formatting of messages to ShadowTk is important for
several reasons. First of all it helps sustain the illusion
of a Shadowrun BBS.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Then, a little later on:

The second type of encryption is the "Barring" message.
INTERNAL message. INTERNAL messages can be used to are for
behind the scenes plot developement for information that
would not normally be posted to the ShadowLand board, but
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>And I do believe in In-Character play,

Except that your post wasn't "in character", it was from the point of view
of an external third-person narrator. (Unless that spirit keeps a journal of
its experiences written in the third person...)

>and I do believe no spirit will ever touch a computer.
^^^^^^^^^
Should be "few spirits". Note that an allied spirit can be given any skill
its summoner possesses, including computer use. While obviously no spirit
can get a datajack, there's nothing stopping one with the desire (probably
rare) and an appropriate physical form from using a "turtle", just like
every other person without a datajack.

>I do not want to reduce my style to "I have seen this, see
>my vidcam/cybercam recording". Too restrictive (uh... I said that before).

Shadowtalk isn't quite like "tabletop" RPGing. I suggest you read, or at
least skim, the last month or more of logs, if you want to get a feel for
how things are done here.

>Let me repeat my question: Which way is there to use non-electronic stylisms?

Directly? None. Indirectly? Depends on your creativity. Some suggestions
have already been given.

--
Justin Fang (justinf@****.caltech.edu)
This space intentionally left blank.
Message no. 5
From: Nightblade <wgreason@*****.OCIS.TEMPLE.EDU>
Subject: Re: About "In Between"
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 09:30:42 -0400
Probably the easiest way to stretch the FAQ and do non-electronic based posts
would be the "INTERNAL" header.

e.g.

*****INTERNAL: Mike's Post-It (10-16-57)
>>>>>[Jim, wanna grab a beer later?]<<<<<
-- Mike <.........>

This still looks electronic b/c of the preferences of the BBS. But,
technically, in the SR world ... Jim and Mike simply passed along a
yellow piece of paper ... and since the INTERNAL catchall doesn't HAVE to
be electronic (yes yes the CONSERVATIVE interpretation would still look
at the word 'post' and say that this implies electronic ... but it is
still an assumption.), you could probably do non-electronic posts this way.

For me, there are so many ways to do electronic post that I just want to
keep it simple and format my stuff for PRIVATE and public stuff. I think
I've only used the NOT TO heading once ... though with all the tracer
madness going on, I may start.

peace
Dave
Message no. 6
From: Mike Broadwater <neon@******.BACKBONE.OLEMISS.EDU>
Subject: Re: About "In Between"
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 12:54:21 -0500
At 08:29 AM 10/16/96 +0000, Sascha Pabst wrote:

>I fail to see the mystic word "Shadowland" at all. Nothing, nada. OK, I
agree
>the Formats just cover electronic media, but this is a bit ... restrictive and
>doesn't follow the lists intention per the FAQ.

You only read the part that agreed with you, however.

"A. Formatting Guidelines and Justifications
1. Why Format Correctly?
Proper formatting of messages to ShadowTk is important for
several reasons. First of all it helps sustain the illusion
of a Shadowrun BBS. Secondly, it allow for ease of reading
for your fellow list members. Lastly, it makes it easier for
the listowner and all other people who are keeping logs to
format them in a consistant manner."

This may not follow the FAQ perfectly, but it does follow the lists
intentions. Read _all_ the FAQ, not just the part that fits your purpose

>And I do believe in In-Character play, and I do believe no spirit will ever
>touch a computer, I do not want to reduce my style to "I have seen this, see
>my vidcam/cybercam recording". Too restrictive (uh... I said that before).

Then become a better writer and write good stories within the restrictions.
Leave the other stuff off, that's not part of the reality of the list. This
is supposed to be the Shadowland BBS. I guess you'll just have to figure
out another way to put spirit info up here, because the way you're doing it
doesn't follow within the lists paradigm.


Mike Broadwater
"Love us with money or
we'll hate you with hammers."
-Milk and Cheese, Dairy Products Gone Bad
Message no. 7
From: A Halliwell <u5a77@**.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: About "In Between"
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 22:46:35 +0100
|Then become a better writer and write good stories within the restrictions.
|Leave the other stuff off, that's not part of the reality of the list. This
|is supposed to be the Shadowland BBS. I guess you'll just have to figure
|out another way to put spirit info up here, because the way you're doing it
|doesn't follow within the lists paradigm.

One way to do it would be to have a security camera record the event.
(It can't read the spirits thoughts, but all that means is that the spirit
would have to be a bit more.... vocal during the recording, talking to the
child, etc....)


--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@**.keele.ac.uk | |
|Andrew Halliwell | "ARSE! GERLS!! DRINK! DRINK! DRINK!!!" |
|Principal subjects in:-| "THAT WOULD BE AN ECCLESIASTICAL MATTER!...FECK!!!!|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | - Father Jack in "Father Ted"
|
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ 5++ |
|X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! >*SULK*<|
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 8
From: Mike Broadwater <neon@******.BACKBONE.OLEMISS.EDU>
Subject: Re: About "In Between"
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 16:53:55 -0500
At 10:46 PM 10/16/96 +0100, A Halliwell wrote:
>|Then become a better writer and write good stories within the restrictions.
>|Leave the other stuff off, that's not part of the reality of the list. This
>|is supposed to be the Shadowland BBS. I guess you'll just have to figure
>|out another way to put spirit info up here, because the way you're doing it
>|doesn't follow within the lists paradigm.
>
>One way to do it would be to have a security camera record the event.
>(It can't read the spirits thoughts, but all that means is that the spirit
>would have to be a bit more.... vocal during the recording, talking to the
>child, etc....)

That's true. Do something like that. And while my "become a better writer"
comment sounds harsh (I just saw it in print again), I'm not saying "you
suck as a writer" I mean exactly what Andrew suggested. Try and find a
different way to get you're point across. Think of a better way, don't do
things the way that other stories do them. This list has restrictions, yes,
but it forces you to think about what you're writing and improve it.

Mike Broadwater
"Love us with money or
we'll hate you with hammers."
-Milk and Cheese, Dairy Products Gone Bad
Message no. 9
From: Steven Ratkovich <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: About "In Between"
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 00:56:29 -0500
>Probably the easiest way to stretch the FAQ and do non-electronic based posts
>would be the "INTERNAL" header.
>
>e.g.
>
>*****INTERNAL: Mike's Post-It (10-16-57)
>>>>>>[Jim, wanna grab a beer later?]<<<<<
> -- Mike <.........>
>
[snip about Internal Header]

The only reason we've been trying to avoid this, is that we were told
several times by listmembers that the INTERNAL was for use in corps, from
one employee to another, and that the one time we tried to use the INTERNAL
to represent a phone call, we got blasted privately...:( This is what is
causing the confusion between the FAQ, Listmembers, and us newbies...
Sometimes the stuff don't add up...

>peace
>Dave
>

Steve
Message no. 10
From: Sascha Pabst <Sascha.Pabst@**********.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
Subject: Re: About "In Between"
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 14:23:51 +0000
On 16 Oct 96 at 12:54, Mike Broadwater wrote:
> >I fail to see the mystic word "Shadowland" at all.
[snip]
> You only read the part that agreed with you, however.

> "A. Formatting Guidelines and Justifications
> 1. Why Format Correctly?
[snip]
>
> This may not follow the FAQ perfectly, but it does follow the lists
> intentions. Read _all_ the FAQ, not just the part that fits your purpose
And you don't think that hiding these informations under "Formatting" is a
bit... well crypted? *grin*

[snip]
> Then become a better writer and write good stories within the restrictions.
> Leave the other stuff off, that's not part of the reality of the list. This
> is supposed to be the Shadowland BBS. I guess you'll just have to figure
> out another way to put spirit info up here, because the way you're doing it
> doesn't follow within the lists paradigm.
Oh, Mike, what have you done? Now I have to become creative... *sigh* OK, I
will. And I will follow the "electronic, not to reach by average person secret
BBS" stuff, too. Just don't wonder if I will _not_ back down if these
guidelines are matched and people still yell at me. OK? :-)

Sascha
Message no. 11
From: Sascha Pabst <Sascha.Pabst@**********.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
Subject: Re: About "In Between"
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 14:23:51 +0000
On 16 Oct 96 at 16:53, Mike Broadwater wrote:
[snip]
> This list has restrictions, yes,
> but it forces you to think about what you're writing and improve it.
*very big grin*
I will do my best to improve the list, promised :-)

Sascha
Message no. 12
From: Sascha Pabst <Sascha.Pabst@**********.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
Subject: Re: About "In Between"
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 15:53:57 +0000
On 16 Oct 96 at 1:31, Justin Fang wrote:
[snip where to find that all ShadowTK discussion is on ShadowLand BBS]
hm... so "internal" would be illegal too, since it is not on SL BBS. Oh-
Internal marks special case where other things then the BBS can be used.
Great. You mean, like Short Stories from a 3rd person POV? :-)
(No, this is not meant seriously, but you will see there is still a prob with
the FAQ, I think.)

> >And I do believe in In-Character play,
> Except that your post wasn't "in character", it was from the point of view
> of an external third-person narrator. (Unless that spirit keeps a journal of
> its experiences written in the third person...)
It was the description of IC-play. That was how the sppirit Okami, which is
well established in my "real" SR gameing group, would have acted. But IMHO you
can get emotions much better from an all-knowing, omni-present 3rd person's
POV then by 1st person "I did this and that" styles.
But as I said before, I will try to advance (hm...)

> >and I do believe no spirit will ever touch a computer.
> ^^^^^^^^^
> Should be "few spirits". Note that an allied spirit can be given any skill
No. I _DO_ believe no spirit will use a computer. maybe you don't, but I do.

> >Let me repeat my question: Which way is there to use non-electronic
> >stylisms?
> Directly? None. Indirectly? Depends on your creativity. Some suggestions
> have already been given.
*grin* just don't flame me when I do use my creativity, ok? :-)

Sascha
Message no. 13
From: Sascha Pabst <Sascha.Pabst@**********.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
Subject: Re: About "In Between"
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 15:53:57 +0000
On 15 Oct 96 at 16:53, Mike Broadwater wrote:
[snip]
> >Is there _any_ way to deliver non-electronic information? Or am I really bound
> >to equip all characters with vid-cams, voice-recorders and an enormous decking
> >skill?
> Yep.
Yep - there is another way? *hoping* or
Yep - you should get the equipment really fast? (*expecting*)

[snip]
> Well, that post wasn't right either. The FAQ says that all of the traffic
> takes place over the ShadowLand BBS.
[snip]
*sigh* Once i try to learn from others, and what do I do? I learn from the
wrong people... story of my life .-)

Thanx, Mike, I will work on it...

Sascha
Message no. 14
From: Vael Lashar <ltwiss@********.COM>
Subject: Re: About "In Between"
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 10:30:54 +0000
> > >and I do believe no spirit will ever touch a computer.

Warning the below deals with the Denver Gamemasters book and is a
possible spoiler.
*
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In the peoples section of the Denver Sourcebook there is a chapter
dealing with the Peoples of Denver.

One such person is BASH.
A rival of Shiva & a sysop for the Nexus.

It also says that he might possible be a spirit. One of the fragments
of the Great Spirit of Denver that gained access to the Matrix.

No spirit will touch a deck? Where was this ever stated in FASA's
supplements?

Vael Lashar
Message no. 15
From: Mike Broadwater <neon@******.BACKBONE.OLEMISS.EDU>
Subject: Re: About "In Between"
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 14:12:40 -0500
At 02:23 PM 10/17/96 +0000, Sascha Pabst wrote:
>Just don't wonder if I will _not_ back down if these
>guidelines are matched and people still yell at me. OK? :-)
>
> Sascha

If you backed down, I'd start to think you'd been replaced by an evil pod
person :)

Mike Broadwater
"Love us with money or
we'll hate you with hammers."
-Milk and Cheese, Dairy Products Gone Bad
Message no. 16
From: A Halliwell <u5a77@**.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: About "In Between"
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 20:27:09 +0100
|
|At 02:23 PM 10/17/96 +0000, Sascha Pabst wrote:
|>Just don't wonder if I will _not_ back down if these
|>guidelines are matched and people still yell at me. OK? :-)
|>
|> Sascha
|
|If you backed down, I'd start to think you'd been replaced by an evil pod
|person :)

You two know each other TOO well.....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@**.keele.ac.uk | |
|Andrew Halliwell | "ARSE! GERLS!! DRINK! DRINK! DRINK!!!" |
|Principal subjects in:-| "THAT WOULD BE AN ECCLESIASTICAL MATTER!...FECK!!!!|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | - Father Jack in "Father Ted"
|
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ 5++ |
|X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! >*SULK*<|
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 17
From: Sascha Pabst <Sascha.Pabst@**********.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
Subject: Re: About "In Between"
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 05:47:25 +0000
On 17 Oct 96 at 10:30, Vael Lashar wrote:
[snip reference to Denver GM book]
> No spirit will touch a deck? Where was this ever stated in FASA's
> supplements?
Nowhere. If you re-read carefully, you'll notice that that statement was "for
me, no spirit..." etc.It is a personal thing, I can't see magic and matrix
mix, but I'd like to use some other perspectives then just the email- or
Shadowland BBS- ones. OK, I learned to work around it, but don't flame me for
trying another way.

Sascha
--
+---___---------+----------------------------------------+--------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst | 'If we had to buy |
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de|you, you wouldn't be|
| \___ __/ | | worth the price.' |
|==== \_/ ======| *Wearing hats is just a way of life* | - E. Weatherwax |
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | (T. Pratchett)|
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+
Message no. 18
From: Sascha Pabst <Sascha.Pabst@**********.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
Subject: Re: About "In Between"
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 06:53:38 +0000
On 17 Oct 96 at 14:12, Mike Broadwater wrote:
> If you backed down, I'd start to think you'd been replaced by an evil pod
> person :)
*grin* I think I take this as a compliment. I hope it was meant as such .-)

Sascha

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