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Message no. 1
From: plotd@*********.com (Zebulin Magby)
Subject: Airforce One
Date: Wed Jul 11 23:40:00 2001
Anyone have any ideas about what type of defenses this puppy would have in
2063?

Zebulin


<egmg>


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Message no. 2
From: plotd@*********.com (J. Mach)
Subject: Airforce One
Date: Thu Jul 12 02:05:01 2001
-----Original Message-----
From: Zebulin Magby <zebulingod@*****.com>
To: plotd@*********.com <plotd@*********.com>
Cc: shadowrn@*********.com <shadowrn@*********.com>
Date: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 8:48 PM
Subject: Airforce One


>Anyone have any ideas about what type of defenses this puppy would have
in
>2063?


BTW, Gametime is 2062....

But as to your question, hmmm. Lots?

Seriously though, the existing Air Force One today is known--or is at
least suspected to have--the absolute latest in electronic
countermeasures, physical countermeasures (chaff, flares, decoys), a comm
suite that makes it the Pentagon on wings, and lest I forget, at least a
flight of the best fighter pilots the Air Force has to offer orbiting it.
Still at the status of rumor, last I checked, was that AF1 has a
high-powered infrared laser system for tagging the seeker heads of inbound
IR-seeking missiles to blind them and send them off course.

So, pretty much: flip through Rigger (BB, 2, 3), and if it is defensive,
AF1 probably has it at a level several notches above anything in the book.
ECM, ED, MIJI, and a half dozen other acronyms should be there in spades.
By 2062, I'd guess it would have hidden point-defense weapons, probably
some combat lasers for blinding or shooting down inbound missiles. It may
even have some attack/defense drones controlled from inside of AF1.
Another slight advantage: Shadowrun stipulates that many civilian
transports are SSTs by 205x, so it is likely that AF1 is capable of being
supersonic. On the other hand, since it is there for diplomacy more than
transport, it probably would not be a ballistic since those are severely
limited as to where they can fly in and out and even suborbitals lack many
options in terms of changing their routes in mid-flight.

Of course, all of this leads to a vital question. Why do you want to
know? I'll be the first to point out that any attempt to test, or worse,
best, these countermeasures within the confines of ShadowTk will probably
fall under the "world altering" clause of the FAQ, and should addressed
here at least in terms of the bold strokes of what you have planned before
you start posting. If this is for your own game at home, feel free to put
them through heck.

--My two yen

Jeff
Message no. 3
From: plotd@*********.com (Zebulin Magby)
Subject: Airforce One
Date: Thu Jul 12 02:30:01 2001
"J. Mach" <jjmach@**********.com> wrote:

>
> BTW, Gametime is 2062....
>

Thank you.

>
> Of course, all of this leads to a vital question. Why do you want to
> know? I'll be the first to point out that any attempt to test, or worse,
> best, these countermeasures within the confines of ShadowTk will probably
> fall under the "world altering" clause of the FAQ, and should addressed
> here at least in terms of the bold strokes of what you have planned before
> you start posting. If this is for your own game at home, feel free to put
> them through heck.
>


Ahhh, the million ¥ question. Yes, I am planning something, here on Shadowtk
and in my game at home. Only, it is only meant to be a
distraction...something along the lines of "take this missile, target this
plane at this time, and fire, then run away". Something to tie into the
whole Ernang plot....but how..?

That's what I'm trying to figure out...anyone have a bright idea?

Zebulin


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Message no. 4
From: plotd@*********.com (Paul J. Adam)
Subject: Airforce One
Date: Thu Jul 12 13:15:03 2001
In message <002001c10a98$c94789a0$cec8f7a5@*******>, J. Mach
<jjmach@**********.com> writes
>Still at the status of rumor, last I checked, was that AF1 has a
>high-powered infrared laser system for tagging the seeker heads of inbound
>IR-seeking missiles to blind them and send them off course.

Not rumour - it's being fielded on our Apache AH.1s. The US designation
is AAQ-24(V).

"The AN/AAQ-24(V) / ARI 18246 NEMESIS Directional Infrared
Countermeasure (DIRCM) system protects large fixed-wing transports and
small rotary-wing aircraft from the infrared missile threat.

When NEMESIS detects a missile launch, it determines if it is a threat,
warns the aircrew and activates its high-power, countermeasure system to
track and defeat the threat. Proven against 35 missiles in totally
autonomous live fire tests, the system is in production, and is being
installed on a wide array of front-line aircraft.

Advanced configurations -- incorporating a two-color missile warning
sensor and laser-based transmitters -- offer lightweight, low drag, high
performance options for specific missions. "

from http://sensor.northgrum.com/esss/pages/eo.html

--
Paul J. Adam
Message no. 5
From: plotd@*********.com (Andrew Murdoch)
Subject: Airforce One
Date: Thu Jul 12 18:35:05 2001
- Zebulin Magby <20:45/11-Jul-2001>

> Anyone have any ideas about what type of defenses this puppy would have in
> 2063?
>
> Zebulin

Everything.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hail, Centurion! toreador@***.bc.ca
Andrew C. Murdoch http://members.nbci.com/corvisraven
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ban The Bomb! Save the world for conventional warfare.
Message no. 6
From: plotd@*********.com (J. Mach)
Subject: Airforce One
Date: Sun Jul 15 01:55:01 2001
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul J. Adam <PlotD@********.demon.co.uk>
To: plotd@*********.com <plotd@*********.com>
Date: Thursday, July 12, 2001 10:23 AM
Subject: Re: Airforce One


>In message <002001c10a98$c94789a0$cec8f7a5@*******>, J. Mach
><jjmach@**********.com> writes
>>Still at the status of rumor, last I checked, was that AF1 has a
>>high-powered infrared laser system for tagging the seeker heads of
inbound
>>IR-seeking missiles to blind them and send them off course.
>
>Not rumour - it's being fielded on our Apache AH.1s. The US designation
>is AAQ-24(V).

>"The AN/AAQ-24(V) / ARI 18246 NEMESIS Directional Infrared
>Countermeasure (DIRCM) system protects large fixed-wing transports and
>small rotary-wing aircraft from the infrared missile threat.


Heh. Heard of this already. Note: I was specifically refering to Air
Force One having one of these. I'm not aware that anybody has admitted to
sticking one of these on the President's bird. On the other hand, if they
are already sticking NEMESIS on Apaches and IIRC, C130s, you'd have a hard
time convincing me that it doesn't have one or two of these on board.
Suffice to say, when I've seen the plane in person (I work at NASA Ames on
Moffett Field NAS, where the President lands whenever he is in the Bay
Area of California), there are a number of bumps and buldges on her that
don't belong on a "normal" 747, and I'm not just talking about the fuel
receptical on the nose.

--My two yen

Jeff
Message no. 7
From: plotd@*********.com (J. Mach)
Subject: Airforce One
Date: Sun Jul 15 01:55:02 2001
>> Of course, all of this leads to a vital question. Why do you want to
>> know? I'll be the first to point out that any attempt to test, or
worse,
>> best, these countermeasures within the confines of ShadowTk will
probably
>> fall under the "world altering" clause of the FAQ, and should addressed
>> here at least in terms of the bold strokes of what you have planned
before
>> you start posting. If this is for your own game at home, feel free to
put
>> them through heck.


>Ahhh, the million ¥ question. Yes, I am planning something, here on
Shadowtk
>and in my game at home. Only, it is only meant to be a
>distraction...something along the lines of "take this missile, target
this
>plane at this time, and fire, then run away". Something to tie into the
>whole Ernang plot....but how..?

Air Force One has pretty distinctive markings, assuming the UCAS keeps the
tradition, if you try to foist this off on some runners, they might get a
clue and decide whatever they've been promised in pay isn't worth what
hell they are going to bring on their own heads with a rather weak attempt
at assination of the POTUCAS.

>That's what I'm trying to figure out...anyone have a bright idea?


Ah. Well, as long as you don't plan on having them succeed. =) While Air
Force One isn't invulnerable, it should be pretty damn secure against a
simple shoulder-launched SAM. Depending on what you feel they are willing
to invest, the basic option would be an IR seeker, which would be defeated
by flares and a NEMESIS-type laser. More advanced, would be radar,
optical, or hybrid seeker, but all of these have countermeasures to send
it off course, or it could even be shot down by a point-defense weapon.

A deeper question, which you probably have resolved, or at least scetched
out: what does the missile launcher hope to accomplish by taking a pot
shot at the President. I'm not sure I can help you with that, but if it
fits your plot, I personally don't have a big problem with it (as long as
it doesn't succeed).

--My two yen

Jeff
Message no. 8
From: plotd@*********.com (Zebulin Magby)
Subject: Airforce One
Date: Sun Jul 15 02:15:00 2001
"J. Mach" <jjmach@**********.com> wrote:

> A deeper question, which you probably have resolved, or at least scetched
> out: what does the missile launcher hope to accomplish by taking a pot
> shot at the President. I'm not sure I can help you with that, but if it
> fits your plot, I personally don't have a big problem with it (as long as
> it doesn't succeed).
>

It won't succeed, that's for sure. I'm werking on something though...we'll
see what happens.

Zebulin


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Message no. 9
From: plotd@*********.com (jaimie nicholson)
Subject: Airforce One
Date: Sun Jul 15 07:20:00 2001
> > fits your plot, I personally don't have a big problem with it (as
> long as
> > it doesn't succeed).
> >
>
> It won't succeed, that's for sure. I'm werking on something
> though...we'll
> see what happens.

Now that FASA are out of business, there's not going to be any canon
coming out to contradict anything crazy that happens here...
Message no. 10
From: plotd@*********.com (Pete)
Subject: Airforce One
Date: Sun Jul 15 07:50:00 2001
From: "jaimie nicholson" <chicken@********.net.nz>
To: <plotd@*********.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 12:36 PM
Subject: Re: Airforce One


> Now that FASA are out of business, there's not going to be any canon
> coming out to contradict anything crazy that happens here...

Not entirely true. Wizzkidz have the ownership, FanPro get to
print/produce/make a mess of all things Shadowrun. So there will still be
canon, it'll just be a tad odd sometimes. :)

--
Pete
Shadowtk FAQ & Newcomers Guide http://www.shalako.demon.co.uk/stk/
Shadowrun stuff http://www.shalako.demon.co.uk/
CGI Stuff http://www.shalako.plus.com/
3DCommune moderator http://www.3dcommune.com
Message no. 11
From: plotd@*********.com (Mark Imbriaco)
Subject: Airforce One
Date: Sun Jul 15 11:00:01 2001
On Sun, 15 Jul 2001, Pete wrote:

> From: "jaimie nicholson" <chicken@********.net.nz>
> To: <plotd@*********.com>
> Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 12:36 PM
> Subject: Re: Airforce One
>
>
> > Now that FASA are out of business, there's not going to be any canon
> > coming out to contradict anything crazy that happens here...
>
> Not entirely true. Wizzkidz have the ownership, FanPro get to
> print/produce/make a mess of all things Shadowrun. So there will still be
> canon, it'll just be a tad odd sometimes. :)
>

Right, and in fact Year of the Comet should be out VERY shortly. Last I
heard it was between the printers and the warehouse, so we've got more
canon stuff coming out shortly that's going to play hell with the world as
we know it. I can't wait. :)

-Mark
Message no. 12
From: plotd@*********.com (J. Mach)
Subject: Airforce One
Date: Mon Jul 16 22:50:01 2001
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Imbriaco <mark.imbriaco@*****.com>
To: plotd@*********.com <plotd@*********.com>
Date: Sunday, July 15, 2001 8:08 AM
Subject: Re: Airforce One



>Right, and in fact Year of the Comet should be out VERY shortly. Last I
>heard it was between the printers and the warehouse, so we've got more
>canon stuff coming out shortly that's going to play hell with the world
as
>we know it. I can't wait. :)


Oh...joy. First The Big D for Prez/elected/assassinated (take breath),
now "Year of the Comet." Who else is with me hoping that the idea wasn't
conceived after the writer had a night of _Deep Impact_, _Armageddon_, and
bad pizza. If they want to say that Halley is on a collision course with
Earth, I'm gonna barf. Astronomers have been mapping the course of that
icecube since before the Roman Empire. As long as they don't fall into
those pitfalls, they may be able to do something interesting with it.
Might.

--My two yen

Jeff
Message no. 13
From: plotd@*********.com (Adam J)
Subject: Airforce One
Date: Mon Jul 16 23:00:01 2001
At 20:50 16/07/2001, J. Mach wrote:

>Oh...joy. First The Big D for Prez/elected/assassinated (take breath),
>now "Year of the Comet." Who else is with me hoping that the idea wasn't
>conceived after the writer had a night of _Deep Impact_, _Armageddon_, and
>bad pizza. If they want to say that Halley is on a collision course with
>Earth, I'm gonna barf.

It won't. But it will still be cool. I assure you. The book is meaty;
you'll definitely be able to use at least a few of the plot threads from
it, and it's done in a way that you can generally ignore the ones you don't
want. It's world-affecting but not world-altering.

http://www.shadowrunrpg.com/products/yotc.html


Adam
--
< http://tss.dumpshock.com : http://www.jillted.org >
< adamj@*********.com | ICQ# 2350330 | TSS Productions >
Message no. 14
From: plotd@*********.com (Pete)
Subject: Airforce One
Date: Tue Jul 17 05:15:01 2001
From: "J. Mach" <jjmach@**********.com>
To: <plotd@*********.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 3:50 AM
Subject: Re: Airforce One


> bad pizza. If they want to say that Halley is on a collision course with
> Earth, I'm gonna barf. Astronomers have been mapping the course of that
> icecube since before the Roman Empire. As long as they don't fall into
> those pitfalls, they may be able to do something interesting with it.
> Might.

Not collision course, not Armageddon, oh no. Much worse than that. Halley's
Comet is a harbinger, a bringer of bad news, something that accompanies
disasters, death, destruction, blah. I think they're going to play this one
for all the possible magical crap they can get out of it. To be honest it
would come as no surprise if some twerp decided it would be cool to have the
comet open the gate to Horror world again.

--
Pete
Message no. 15
From: plotd@*********.com (Lana & Ian)
Subject: Airforce One
Date: Wed Jul 18 03:15:01 2001
STOP SENDING THIS CRAP TO US WE DON'T WANT IT ANY MORE
----- Original Message -----
From: "Pete" <Pete@*******.demon.co.uk>
To: <plotd@*********.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 7:21 PM
Subject: Re: Airforce One


> From: "J. Mach" <jjmach@**********.com>
> To: <plotd@*********.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 3:50 AM
> Subject: Re: Airforce One
>
>
> > bad pizza. If they want to say that Halley is on a collision course
with
> > Earth, I'm gonna barf. Astronomers have been mapping the course of that
> > icecube since before the Roman Empire. As long as they don't fall into
> > those pitfalls, they may be able to do something interesting with it.
> > Might.
>
> Not collision course, not Armageddon, oh no. Much worse than that.
Halley's
> Comet is a harbinger, a bringer of bad news, something that accompanies
> disasters, death, destruction, blah. I think they're going to play this
one
> for all the possible magical crap they can get out of it. To be honest it
> would come as no surprise if some twerp decided it would be cool to have
the
> comet open the gate to Horror world again.
>
> --
> Pete
>
>
>
Message no. 16
From: plotd@*********.com (James Dening)
Subject: Airforce One
Date: Wed Jul 18 07:30:01 2001
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lana & Ian" <beast@*******.net.au>
To: <plotd@*********.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 8:22 AM
Subject: Re: Airforce One


> STOP SENDING THIS CRAP TO US WE DON'T WANT IT ANY MORE


And he calls people Dickweed when they ask about the mail that they get
telling them
how to do it themselves.

"Pot", "Kettle", "Black", methinks.

So, kids, shall I remove him? Shall I? Eh? Eh?

J.
Message no. 17
From: plotd@*********.com (J. Mach)
Subject: Airforce One
Date: Wed Jul 18 10:20:01 2001
-----Original Message-----
From: James Dening <james@******.org>
To: plotd@*********.com <plotd@*********.com>
Date: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 4:38 AM
Subject: Re: Airforce One


>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Lana & Ian" <beast@*******.net.au>
>To: <plotd@*********.com>
>Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 8:22 AM
>Subject: Re: Airforce One
>
>
>> STOP SENDING THIS CRAP TO US WE DON'T WANT IT ANY MORE
>
>
>And he calls people Dickweed when they ask about the mail that they get
>telling them
>how to do it themselves.


You getting private messages from these dufi? (i.e. They couldn't read
the f***ing FAQ and figure out how to do it themselves, but did see your
name as executor and wanted you to do it for them?)

>So, kids, shall I remove him? Shall I? Eh? Eh?


I'd first go with a round of bludgeoning with the FAQ, just to tenderize
them a bit. Then saute them over a nice slow heckle. ("Stop sending your
crap to us, we don't want it anymore.") In deference, in case they were
signed up for the list by someone else (a common spamming technique), tell
them not to have a$$#oles for friends, or give out their information to
enemies. Then, kill them (well, their STk and PlotD accounts anyway).
I'll give them this, at least they did this on PlotD, not ShadowTk.

--My two yen

Jeff
Who doesn't tolerate
RTFM-syndrome too
well
Message no. 18
From: plotd@*********.com (James Dening)
Subject: Airforce One
Date: Wed Jul 18 11:45:01 2001
> You getting private messages from these dufi? (i.e. They couldn't read
> the f***ing FAQ and figure out how to do it themselves, but did see your
> name as executor and wanted you to do it for them?)

Nah - I mailed him first to enquire if he still had the original welcoming
mail.

His reply was "bite me dick weed". Short and to the point.

>
> I'd first go with a round of bludgeoning with the FAQ, just to tenderize
> them a bit. Then saute them over a nice slow heckle. ("Stop sending your
> crap to us, we don't want it anymore.") In deference, in case they were
> signed up for the list by someone else (a common spamming technique), tell
> them not to have a$$#oles for friends, or give out their information to
> enemies. Then, kill them (well, their STk and PlotD accounts anyway).
> I'll give them this, at least they did this on PlotD, not ShadowTk.

I will do this. In my own time.

:-)

Hey, I'm chief instructor at Brands Hatch Grand Prix circuit all day
tomorrow -
how cool is that. (It's the Brit version of Laguna Seca, or Philip Island).

J.
Message no. 19
From: plotd@*********.com (plotd@*********.com)
Subject: Airforce One
Date: Wed Jul 18 17:35:00 2001
Scrag the jerk.

Brion
Message no. 20
From: plotd@*********.com (Mark Imbriaco)
Subject: Airforce One
Date: Wed Jul 18 23:05:01 2001
On Wed, 18 Jul 2001, J. Mach wrote:

> I'd first go with a round of bludgeoning with the FAQ, just to tenderize
> them a bit. Then saute them over a nice slow heckle. ("Stop sending your
> crap to us, we don't want it anymore.") In deference, in case they were
> signed up for the list by someone else (a common spamming technique), tell
> them not to have a$$#oles for friends, or give out their information to
> enemies. Then, kill them (well, their STk and PlotD accounts anyway).
> I'll give them this, at least they did this on PlotD, not ShadowTk.

Nope, you have to confirm subscription to the list by responding to a
message. They did it themselves and were too stupid to undo it. Fairly
typical.

-Mark

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