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Message no. 1
From: Jeffrey Jacob Mach <mach@****.CALTECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Welcome Canis was Elementals / Spirits
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 14:42:17 -0700
On Sun, 13 Oct 1996, Dark Avenger wrote:

> In article <m0vCW0t-0004wbC@*******.Informatik.Uni-Oldenburg.DE>, Sascha
> Pabst <Sascha.Pabst@**********.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE> writes
> >++++++Begin Encryption
> >******Private: Dark Avanger, Bull
> > >>>>>>[ Confirmed, DA, these beasts are spirits. Repeat, you
met spirits.
> >Can't say I know who send you the elementals, but can confirm a astral
> >dogfight of several spirits near your LZ. Sorry I couldn't help, had to cover
> >some chummers on their way in.
> >These buggers are bad news, watch out.
> >Bull, you said these were Mantids? Never met 'em buggers before. Did go
> >against triple enemies. I didn't wait to see who won, though.
> >Do you need magical/mediacal help out there? Johnson and chummers are were
> >they wanted to go, I can offer help now. Can't stand if youngsters are under
> >attack.
> >Drek, how does one turn off this voice-input &/ ")!SB"S!
]<<<<<
> > - Canis <OR:IO:ND/ID-TH-IS>
>
> ++++++Begin Encryption
> ******Private: Canis
> >>>>>>[Thanks Canis, you've just ruined my year. Where the frag
are
> these spirits coming from? I've never seen anything like this. Bull
> tells me Chicago is riddled with 'em, he started telling me some of it,
> but we're in transit at the present time. Things got real hairy in
> there for a while. We have astral and spirit cover at this time, but may
> need some more strength later, I've got a few things to do to lock the
> safe house down, es[ecially now with these things fraggin about in the
> area. We have a couple of non-combatants with us, and would appreciate
> any help you can give us to protect them. Like I said, I've got a Mage
> assisting at this time, but I don't want to burn him out, and this is
> going to take some time, he can't be expected to maintain an overwatch
> continually. It wouldn't be fair on him. Contact Inferno on
> >>enrypted<< and chat to him. I'll run a scan from here on the ground.
> We are relocating to >>encrypted<< and I would personaly like to see you
> and talk. Welcome to the team Canis, nice to see you again.]<<<<<
> - Dark Avenger <**:**:**/**-**-**>
> --
> Pete Sims
>
Okay...from one newbie to another, a few points of constructive criticism:

1) Please follow the format specified in the FAQ. Stop with the
reposting already! Stop with the sig lines! I have seen a rash of this
especially with the group that are posting the recent bug run into the
outskirts of Chicago to pick up Bull.

2) Have a good excuse as to why this is passing through the Shadowland
BBS if it is passing through the Shadowland BBS. There was a whole mess
of stuff earlier that probably should have been handled in another method.
For example: it could have been a telcom message.

*****Internal: ChitelCo. Cellular Distribution Net
*****From: >Telcom number< To: >Telcom number<
>>>>>[ insert real time message here ]<<<<<
-- ChitelCo. CDN Node 1239 <HH:MM:SS/mm-dd-yy>

Else, you can have someone else intersept the message:


>>>>>[Hey, dudes, you know something wicked this way goes.... Caught this
outta the air man, and after me an my deck played with the decrypt for a
while, I got this:

+++++insert audio.log
insert real time message here with plenty of missing time and garbling.

What the hell's this all about man...?]<<<<<
-- The Last Ham <HH:MM:SS/mm-dd-yy>

Or worse, it could have been and intercepted message relayed via an
internal UCAS military communications unit. I figure, like others have
said that security should be tighter than a nun's habit around bug city,
and I don't think the electronic front would be any less so. However,
encryption can delay the translation of the message long enough that it
would be too late to act on it, so be sure to adjust the bottom TD stamp
to reflect a suitable delay. But Shadowland posts (the whole PRIVATE
business or public posts, are probably not the way to go when there is
time-critical information to be passed. Not all ShadowTk messages
actually pass through Shadowland, which is why the header "*****Internal"
exists.

Also, as per the problem you guys had with Inferno, which on my end did
not appear planned, make sure to coordinate postings if more than one
person is doing the posting. The only foul--up I have had by this was
when the listserver died between when my compatriot posted his and I
posted mine. However, the TimeDate stamps made everything clear.

3) Obscenity.... I am assuming that all of the people on ShadowTk are big
boys and girls, or else you wouldn't know about something down and dirty,
nice and gritty like Shadowrun. Therefore, unless anybody has a legal
reason (like their service provider reads their email and if they find
obscene expletives of any kind will cancel their service) I see no reason
to restrict my writing the way that Shadowrun sourcebooks have to in order
to get published. And especially for an audiolog...I don't know how to
pronounce %@$%*, but "Holy Shit!" seems clear. So if you think it would be
appropriate for your character to swear, GO FOR IT! I am getting tired of
"frag this," "frag that," and worst of all "Fragger." Get
creative folks.
If you find a your cat stapled to a wall upside down with it's entrails
spelling out a warning, and you didn't say "Fuuuuuuuuck...." you should be
up for cannonization. And a runner who was fond of his drill sergent back
in the EuroWars wouldn't inspire his buddies with "Hoi chummers, let's go
out there and frag those slitches." He'd say something more akin to:
"Okay you fire-breathing sons-of-bitches, let's get out there and blow
those bastard straight back to the hell they came from!" And don't be
afraid of putting a new twist on an old explative, the language will
change some in the next 61 years, roll with it.

From what I have been told, "frag" does have a meaning, shortened from the
word "fragmentation grenade" which gained some of its current meaning
during the Vietnam War where the device was used as a method of removing
inexperienced officers that were blithely leading their soldiers into
certain death, although from what I have come to know, the word now just
expresses the nasty destruction said device can create as well as in
Shadowrun and the comics (notably Lobo), as a catch-all replacement for
the explative (but not the verb) "fuck." "Slitch" means nothing,
other
than that FASA uses it instead of bitch so that they can get their books
published, and well, chummer is obvious, albeit annoying after being read
the 128th time.

I believe as one scholar once said, "Obscenity is the last refuge of the
inarticulate." However, if it is appropriate to the character and to the
scene, I won't be holding my tongue any.

Here's to hoping the right people get this message....

--My two yen

Jeff
Message no. 2
From: Nightblade <wgreason@*****.OCIS.TEMPLE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Welcome Canis was Elementals / Spirits
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 18:01:24 -0400
Thanks for your commentary, Jeff.
But I do have to say that my email is periodically checked as far as I can
tell as there are system rules against using obscenities through the system.
So I'll keep saying sh-t, shiznit, biznitch, drek, frag, fznuck, etc
etcetc ... just to keep my account. However I do understand your points
on "how do you say #&^$$## ?" But some of us do have limits.

Furthermore, I don't know if Itribe would be either tolerant or
intolerant of obscenity on their service ... again, to err on the side of
safety, and hopefully, be able to write well enough without having to
use expletives.

Maybe I'll even have a villain twist his moustache between his index
finger and thumb as he's about to win, then at then end, slink away into
the shadows mumbling, "Curses! Foiled again!"

:)

peace
Dave
Message no. 3
From: Mike Broadwater <neon@******.BACKBONE.OLEMISS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Welcome Canis was Elementals / Spirits
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 17:15:37 -0500
At 02:42 PM 10/13/96 -0700, Jeffrey Jacob Mach wrote:
<snipped a lot of stuff I agree with>

>3) Obscenity.... I am assuming that all of the people on ShadowTk are big
>boys and girls, or else you wouldn't know about something down and dirty,
>nice and gritty like Shadowrun. Therefore, unless anybody has a legal
>reason (like their service provider reads their email and if they find
>obscene expletives of any kind will cancel their service) I see no reason
>to restrict my writing the way that Shadowrun sourcebooks have to in order
>to get published. And especially for an audiolog...I don't know how to
>pronounce %@$%*, but "Holy Shit!" seems clear. So if you think it would be
>appropriate for your character to swear, GO FOR IT! I am getting tired of
>"frag this," "frag that," and worst of all "Fragger."
Get creative folks.
>If you find a your cat stapled to a wall upside down with it's entrails
>spelling out a warning, and you didn't say "Fuuuuuuuuck...." you should be
>up for cannonization. And a runner who was fond of his drill sergent back
>in the EuroWars wouldn't inspire his buddies with "Hoi chummers, let's go
>out there and frag those slitches." He'd say something more akin to:
>"Okay you fire-breathing sons-of-bitches, let's get out there and blow
>those bastard straight back to the hell they came from!" And don't be
>afraid of putting a new twist on an old explative, the language will
>change some in the next 61 years, roll with it.

You're really off base here. 'Frag', 'drek' and 'slitch' are all considered
vulgarity's in the SR world. 'Fuck' and 'shit' are considered something
said by old timers who need to hang up there gun belts. To qoute one of the
novels,

"Get the fuck out of my apartment."
"How quaint. You said 'fuck'."
"How quaint. You formed a complete sentence. Get the fuck out of my
apartment."

So even though novels aren't canon, they are a good source of flavor and how
things work in the SR world. If your character says swears up a blue
streak, and does it using vulgaraties of our time, then he'd better have a
good reason, because he's speaking anachronistically.

You said the language will change in 61 years. Well, this is how it
changed. Keep up to date.

Mike Broadwater
"Love us with money or
we'll hate you with hammers."
-Milk and Cheese, Dairy Products Gone Bad
Message no. 4
From: "Mark L. Neidengard" <mneideng@****.CALTECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Welcome Canis was Elementals / Spirits
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 16:39:03 -0700
According to Mike Broadwater:
>>3) Obscenity.... I am assuming that all of the people on ShadowTk are big
>>boys and girls, or else you wouldn't know about something down and dirty,
>>nice and gritty like Shadowrun. Therefore, unless anybody has a legal
>>reason (like their service provider reads their email and if they find
>>obscene expletives of any kind will cancel their service) I see no reason
>>to restrict my writing the way that Shadowrun sourcebooks have to in order
>>to get published. And especially for an audiolog...I don't know how to
>>pronounce %@$%*, but "Holy Shit!" seems clear. So if you think it would
be
>>appropriate for your character to swear, GO FOR IT! I am getting tired of
>>"frag this," "frag that," and worst of all
"Fragger." Get creative folks.
>>If you find a your cat stapled to a wall upside down with it's entrails
>>spelling out a warning, and you didn't say "Fuuuuuuuuck...." you should
be
>>up for cannonization. And a runner who was fond of his drill sergent back
>>in the EuroWars wouldn't inspire his buddies with "Hoi chummers, let's go
>>out there and frag those slitches." He'd say something more akin to:
>>"Okay you fire-breathing sons-of-bitches, let's get out there and blow
>>those bastard straight back to the hell they came from!" And don't be
>>afraid of putting a new twist on an old explative, the language will
>>change some in the next 61 years, roll with it.
>
>You're really off base here. 'Frag', 'drek' and 'slitch' are all considered
>vulgarity's in the SR world. 'Fuck' and 'shit' are considered something
>said by old timers who need to hang up there gun belts. To qoute one of the
>novels,
>
>"Get the fuck out of my apartment."
>"How quaint. You said 'fuck'."
>"How quaint. You formed a complete sentence. Get the fuck out of my
>apartment."
>
>So even though novels aren't canon, they are a good source of flavor and how
>things work in the SR world. If your character says swears up a blue
>streak, and does it using vulgaraties of our time, then he'd better have a
>good reason, because he's speaking anachronistically.

Really? I _don't_ see anywhere in the canon that this is stated, and I await
a good linguistic reason why common usage would drift that much. Personally,
I think it's clear that FASA was pussyfooting around the implications of the
"gritty" world view they created and were trying to write sourcebooks that
were marginally more acceptable to the parents of all thsoe eager young gamers
out there.

In short, I see no reason why contemporary profanity ("fuck" etc.) should be
regarded as an anachronism, and intend to post accordingly. =)
--
/!\/!ark /!\!eidengard, CS Major, VLSI. http://www.cacr.caltech.edu/~mneideng
"Fairy of sleep, controller of illusions" Operator/Jack-of-all-Trades, CACR
"Control the person for my own purpose." "Don't mess with the Dark
Elves!"
-Pirotess, _Record_of_Lodoss_War_ Shadowrunner and Anime Addict
Message no. 5
From: Steven Ratkovich <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Welcome Canis was Elementals / Spirits
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 02:35:36 -0500
Jeff, thanks for the assisst. I do apologize, several of us are new, and
are learning the format. We goof and leave the sig on occasionally cause I
use it for several other lists, but I've been trying to catch it.

As for some of the Frag and Deak language, that has been officialized by
FASA as 205X swearing slang, which is why it is used. Language changes over
time, and 50 years ago, Fuck was not used with the frequency it is today.
However, swar words with the same connotation and intent probably did exist
(although what, I don not know). I use the language because it's part of
the game, straight from teh rule books...:):)

We're cleaning the postings up, and we prob will use the Internals more, as
you're right, most of it wouldn't necessarily come through Shadowland...
We're trying, but we appreiate the help...:)

Thanks, Steve



****************************************************************************
*******
-Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich
chaos@*****.com
Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?
****************************************************************************
*******
"I've got a bad feeling about this..."
-Just about everyone, in "Star Wars"

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