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Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: Craigtw1@***.com
Subject: Re: Why U.S. Censorship effect those outside the country...
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 22:09:10 -0500
It's not the ultra-conservatives the USA has to worry about, it is the
Liberals (particularly the media, Democratic Leadership, and Liberal
Republicans.). these people want to keep everyone dependant on the
government, and make the US a part of a world nation that doesn't exist.
As an example I will use the current budget debate/media trashing:
Medicare spending in the Republican 7 year budget is 52% of the budget
(sidenote: The Republican National Commitee is sponsoring a $1,000,000
contest for people to PROVE that Medicare is less than 50% of the Republican
budget. It will be in Dec 12th's USA Today.), and is actually HIGHER than
Bill Clinton's proposal; yet, the media, President Bill Clinton, and the DNC
(can't remember if it is Democratic National Commitee or Caucas.)
claim(falsely) that the Republicans are CUTTING Medicare.
I don't believe that Congress will pass this Censorship bill, even if it
exists.
Getting off of my political soapbox.
Tom
Message no. 2
From: Evan Hughes <ehughes@****.carleton.ca>
Subject: Re: Why U.S. Censorship effect those outside the country...
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 95 22:15:03 EST
Craigtw1@***.com writes:
> It's not the ultra-conservatives the USA has to worry about, it is the
<SNIP>
> Getting off of my political soapbox.

Heh. Sorry. For all my spouting off, I don't tend to have much
interaction with the outside world. Particularly US politics (which I
avoid, unless it makes it onto the BBC, by which point it must actualyl be
important =). Ever since I've moved into rez, I seem to be completely cut
off. I didn't even know Ydzac Rabin (sorry about the spelling) was shot
until about a week after... Now THATS a sorry state of affairs. If
anything of import happens, someone make sure to tell me. =)


Web Page At:
http://chat.carleton.ca/~ehughes
(Signature Under Construction)
Message no. 3
From: GKoth2258@***.com
Subject: Re: Why U.S. Censorship effect those outside the country...
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 14:01:20 -0500
Start list.member.grumpy mode...
Steps onto the maligned soapbox...

First item, we all have to remember that budget-speak in our homes and in
government, regardless of where, is very different. In our own budget, when
we say we will cut spending on compact discs, that means instead of spending
$50, you spend $40. Now with government, you always factor in a percentage
of spending growth. Cutting spending is instead of Medicaid growing 11%, it
only grows 9%. That's a government budget cut.

Now onto the proposed telecommunications bill. Our Fearless Leader is right;
US Censorship _WILL_ affect everyone on this list, directly or indirectly.
And yes, other Western countries may soon follow, depending on how
successful it is.

Mr. Hughes, you cited racism and slavery as an example of how the US lags
behind. Perhaps yes. And that Canada only has harmless moderates to worry
about. That is likely true, as it appears that a conservative in Europe is
the equivalent of a left of center moderate in the US. But back to the
racism issue. France just recently passed an anti-terrorism law that gives
broad powers to law enforcement. What does it allow them to do? They can
now go into any Arab community, search every building, any one who looks
suspicious, and all without any search warrants. If you look French, they
leave you alone. Look like an Arab, you get hassled. ALL BECAUSE YOU LOOK
LIKE AN ARAB!! Now, if that isn't the state sanctioned racism, then I don't
know what is.

Please don't take this a direct insult Mr. Hughes, or really, anyone else
outside the US. It is just that I am getting very fed up with Europeans
(Canadians tend to be quiet) being high and mighty, that they are somehow of
superior moral fiber than us barbaric Americans. That's complete bullshit.

In any case, Mr. Hayden, you should be happy. I have sent off several emails
to members of Congress, and have sent off for information about the EFF.

Steps down from the pulpit...
Exits list.member.grumpy mode...
Covers self in flame-retardent blanket...

Erik
Message no. 4
From: ANGLISS BRIAN EDWARD <angliss@****.colorado.edu>
Subject: Re: Why U.S. Censorship effect those outside the country...
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 12:22:24 -0700 (MST)
HOLDIT!!!!! TIME-OUT ALREADY!!!!

While I was personally relieved to get the mailing that Rob Hayden sent,
and forwarded it to many of my friends myself, this is NOT a forum for
political discussions.

Putting my politics aside, I have only a few comments. If this
legislation is passed, those of us US citizens will either have to give
up the list or make our posts banal(I'd rather leave than do that, but
that's me). Even if you move the site out of the US, it will affect the
list even if it doesn't affect the country where it moves to. And being
someone who participates in more than one "disagreeable" forum, be they
mailservers or usenet groups, this legislation would wipe my Internet
access out, or drive me underground, or turn me into a criminal. None of
those sounds particularly appealing.

I'm sure that Rob Hayden has more(and more accurate as well) stats than I
have, but I seem to remember that there's something like 100 million
INternet users worldwide, half of which are in the US if I remember
correctly. Having half(I'll be more conservative and say a third) or
even a third of the Internet dumbed down because of the internal politics
of a single country WILL affect the entire thing, perhaps in ways we
can't even predict.

Now, as I see these as facts, not opinion, they aren't political to me.
If you disagree, please, email me privately!

But the politics isn't necessary, dammit. My personal politics clash
damn near violently with Tom's(didn't know that, did you Tom?), but I
don't scream about it here. It's not appropriate, unless its tied in
with the SR world we play in, IM(NECTDAB)HO.

Brian
Message no. 5
From: Evan Hughes <ehughes@****.carleton.ca>
Subject: Re: Why U.S. Censorship effect those outside the country...
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 95 20:00:32 EST
GKoth2258@***.com writes:
> racism issue. France just recently passed an anti-terrorism law that gives
> broad powers to law enforcement. What does it allow them to do? They can
> now go into any Arab community, search every building, any one who looks
> suspicious, and all without any search warrants. If you look French, they
> leave you alone. Look like an Arab, you get hassled. ALL BECAUSE YOU LOOK
> LIKE AN ARAB!! Now, if that isn't the state sanctioned racism, then I don't
> know what is.

Yep, I know. France is a bit of a blip. I tend not to think of them as a
European country, but a dictatorship that got lost... That's more dealing
with their colonial record however. T

> Please don't take this a direct insult Mr. Hughes, or really, anyone else

Don't worry. I've been flamed so much in the past seven years it takes
a lot to actually offend/annoy me.

> outside the US. It is just that I am getting very fed up with Europeans
> (Canadians tend to be quiet) being high and mighty, that they are somehow of
> superior moral fiber than us barbaric Americans. That's complete bullshit.

Heh. Here I have to disagree with you. I have nothing against
particular races or nationalities (at least not that I'm aware of, or
ready to delve into on a Srun list), but it is my personal beleif that the
american government, and most things that they do are Evil. No offense.
And of course, I'm not saying that any other government is better or
anything... =)

Web Page At:
http://chat.carleton.ca/~ehughes
(Signature Under Construction)
Message no. 6
From: Craigtw1@***.com
Subject: Re: Why U.S. Censorship effect those outside the country...
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 20:36:34 -0500
I'm strong in my political beliefs, I do my best to be civil. I fail
sometimes, that's to be expected. One thing I would like to see is the
actual bills sent to registered voters. THEN, there would be no chance of
lies, by anyone.

One Thing: I misrepresented the RNC's $1,000,000 contest. It is to prove
that Medicare spending will be increased less than 50% of current levels.
Medicare is increased at 62% of current levels. Which translates to the
current budget total (over $1 trillion)being spent on Medicare during the
entire 7 year budget.

As for current political speak, when you say a cut to a member of the
democratic party leadership it means Johnny asks for a $1.00 raise in his
allowance, then his father only gives him a $0.75 raise. That is a cut of 25
cents, not a raise of 75 cents.

Brian, as for our politics clashing: I believe that the best way for people
to live is to EARN their money (through investing, work, and general monitary
risk-taking) not get the money from the government at the expense of those
who work for a living. I would like to see the government invest 10% of each
department's budget allowance per year until the interest alone can run the
government.
Tom
Message no. 7
From: Evan Hughes <ehughes@****.carleton.ca>
Subject: Re: Why U.S. Censorship effect those outside the country...
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 95 22:28:18 EST
Craigtw1@***.com writes:
> risk-taking) not get the money from the government at the expense of those
> who work for a living. I would like to see the government invest 10% of each
> department's budget allowance per year until the interest alone can run the
> government.

Good Ghu, I don't beleive I'm responding to this (this is SRUN dammit!).

What about the US's MASSIVE debt. Just to tie this in with the game, I
always figured that this was a reason why the US split up. The debt became
too massive...

Web Page At:
http://chat.carleton.ca/~ehughes
(Signature Under Construction)
Message no. 8
From: Craigtw1@***.com
Subject: Re: Why U.S. Censorship effect those outside the country...
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 12:21:11 -0500
I think you will find that the US is heading towards third-world nation
status as in the future the tax rate will be 70%+ of every yank's income.
Right now it is at 40-45% of each US resident's income. Eventually there
will be a violent revolution here in the States, and I will probably be one
of those involved.
I happen to be registered as a Republican, and I fall somewhere between
Conservative and Libertarian. For those of you who don't know what
Libertarians are, they are people who are essentially Constitutionalists.
They believe in EVERY Amendment of the US Bill of Rights. I, personally, am
more concerned with people's rights to Privacy and to a Fair trial by jury.
Tom
Message no. 9
From: GKoth2258@***.com
Subject: Re: Why U.S. Censorship effect those outside the country...
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 15:03:29 -0500
*tired sigh*

We all have our political beliefs, and most of us would defend them to within
an inch of our lives, maybe more. I, for example, in response to Mr. Hughes,
defend the US and make rude and possibly true comments about the Canadian
government.

But I won't.

I've been through too many political battles in my admittedly short life so
far. A few wins, a loss or two, and a whole lot of stalemates.

None of us here will win, no one here can really lose. Those of us that have
commented won't change.

So let's just let it go. Most of us can agree that the Net Censorship bill
will affect all of us, even if only indirectly. So let's drop the topic.

*another tired sigh*

It's a bad sign when you're only 23 and tired...

Erik

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These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!