Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: "Glen Sauve" <tsgint@******.net>
Subject: Wings on a man?
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 17:31:23 -0400
Can we all execpt the idea of a character grafting cybernetic wings to his
back if they can only be used for gliding? Desolation Angel has cybertology
and used to build custom cyberware.
Oh, and my account will change soon, so please hold responces till after
mid-knight of the night of th 4-5 of august. Thanx
Daniel "Josha" Sauve
Message no. 2
From: winter@******.med.harvard.edu
Subject: Wings on a man?
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 1996 20:00:10 -0400
Cyberite in town? Or whoever is his dady?

I need to talk with ya.

-winter@******.med.harvard.edu
Message no. 3
From: mneideng@****.caltech.edu (Mark L. Neidengard)
Subject: Re: Wings on a man?
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 1996 17:14:34 -0700 (PDT)
According to Glen Sauve:
>
>Can we all execpt the idea of a character grafting cybernetic wings to his
>back if they can only be used for gliding?

First of all, if you have to ask this sort of question, you should have
asked it _before_ putting it on to the list, not after...have you thought
about how such wings would work? How much surface area you'd need for how
much mass? How they are articulated? How much Essence they should cost
(how much Essence _do_ you think they should cost?) How obvious they
should be?

>Desolation Angel has cybertology
>and used to build custom cyberware.

There's cyberware and then there's cyberware. For example, these things
are a little more than a cybernetic replacement appendage. The brain is
set up for driving four limbs (plus maybe a tail, given coaxing). Depending
on exactly how they were wired, figuring out how to get the brain to drive
a third pair of limbs could be a _very_ nasty problem.

>Oh, and my account will change soon, so please hold responces till after
>mid-knight of the night of th 4-5 of august. Thanx

What's a few hours more or less. =)
--
/!\/!ark /!\!eidengard, CS Major, VLSI. http://www.cacr.caltech.edu/~mneideng
"Fairy of sleep, controller of illusions" Operator/Jack-of-all-Trades, CACR
"Control the person for my own purpose." "Don't mess with the Dark
Elves!"
-Pirotess, _Record_of_Lodoss_War_ Shadowrunner and Anime Addict
Message no. 4
From: jaimie.nicholson@********.otago.ac.nz (Jaimie Nicholson)
Subject: Re: Wings on a man?
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 12:34:50 +1200 (NZST)
Mark Neidengard:

>There's cyberware and then there's cyberware. For example, these things
>are a little more than a cybernetic replacement appendage. The brain is
>set up for driving four limbs (plus maybe a tail, given coaxing). Depending
>on exactly how they were wired, figuring out how to get the brain to drive
>a third pair of limbs could be a _very_ nasty problem.

I got the impression that they didn't move much in the flight. That the
only motion they did was close and fold away, and open up again.

>>Oh, and my account will change soon, so please hold responces till after
>>mid-knight of the night of th 4-5 of august. Thanx
>
>What's a few hours more or less. =)

Hell, I don't even know which time zone he's in. It's around midday of the
fifth here though, and we of New Zealand get the day "first", so I figure
he's got a fifty-fifty chance. That's fair odds.

PLAYTHING OF A CRUEL GOD
JAIMIE NICHOLSON
Message no. 5
From: winter@******.med.harvard.edu
Subject: Re: Wings on a man?
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 1996 20:28:49 -0400
Gotta "back" Mark on this one. If you want to weld a folding
hang-glider to your back that's yer prob. But wings? As in "flap,
flap, look Ma, I'm flyin'!?" I don't think so...


-winter
Message no. 6
From: jaimie.nicholson@********.otago.ac.nz (Jaimie Nicholson)
Subject: Re: Wings on a man?
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 12:48:10 +1200 (NZST)
>Gotta "back" Mark on this one. If you want to weld a folding
>hang-glider to your back that's yer prob. But wings? As in "flap,
>flap, look Ma, I'm flyin'!?" I don't think so...

Didn't he say "just for gliding"? I trashed the message, since I really
don't give a toss one way or the other.

PLAYTHING OF A CRUEL GOD
JAIMIE NICHOLSON
Message no. 7
From: winter@******.med.harvard.edu
Subject: Re: Wings on a man?
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 1996 21:02:13 -0400
But the flavor I got from his words seemed to indicate that he wanted
"cyber-wings", not just a glider. The action would be the same, but
the mechanism was different. Thus, I can agree with the concept of a
guy wielding an assult-cannon, but not having one mounted in his
kneecap.


-winter
Message no. 8
From: Evan Hughes <ehughes@****.carleton.ca>
Subject: Re: Wings on a man?
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 96 1:46:55 EDT
Mark L. Neidengard writes:
> >Can we all execpt the idea of a character grafting cybernetic wings to his
> >back if they can only be used for gliding?

Those things would be mighty heavy... Not to mention, mightly large. At
the same time, the back is a mighty articulated part of the body (what is
it, something 44 moving vertibrae? Or is it 22? Damn... =). At the same
time, if Desolation Angel (haven't we heard that name before? =) is a
runner, a pair of wings stuck on his/her back would be a rather
distinctive mark -- not necessarily wanted attention.

You may wish to opt for something a little less dramatic than a
full-scale graft. Possibly a pair of flanges on the back (on below the
neck, on above the pelvis) that could accept a set of removable wings.


Mark Says:
> are a little more than a cybernetic replacement appendage. The brain is
> set up for driving four limbs (plus maybe a tail, given coaxing). Depending
> on exactly how they were wired, figuring out how to get the brain to drive
> a third pair of limbs could be a _very_ nasty problem.

Is this really a problem? Riggers can direct aircraft, what would stop
a modified rig from being applied to a pair of wings?


Evan Hughes | Webmaster
Honours Computer Science | Carleton Computer Science Society
http://chat.carleton.ca/~ehughes | http://omega.scs.carleton.ca/~ccss
.. code code code eat code code code code code sleep code code code code ..
Message no. 9
From: Evan Hughes <ehughes@****.carleton.ca>
Subject: Re: Wings on a man?
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 96 1:50:44 EDT
winter@******.med.harvard.edu writes:
> "cyber-wings", not just a glider. The action would be the same, but
> the mechanism was different. Thus, I can agree with the concept of a
> guy wielding an assult-cannon, but not having one mounted in his
> kneecap.

Well, now you mention it, the femur is a fairly large bone, if you were
to replace that, as well as some of the surrounding muscle tissue, you
could probably fit a fair sized...

*grin*

And you wonder how these things get started... =)


Evan Hughes | Webmaster
Honours Computer Science | Carleton Computer Science Society
http://chat.carleton.ca/~ehughes | http://omega.scs.carleton.ca/~ccss
.. code code code eat code code code code code sleep code code code code ..
Message no. 10
From: Brian Rogers <rogers@****.uiuc.edu>
Subject: Re: Wings on a man?
Date: Mon, 05 Aug 1996 11:04:35 -0500
I cant read a damned thing that Glen writes. I dont know what the hell
he does to it, but my mailer just looks at it and pukes it onto the
floor. I dont mind, I just leave it there.

Someone else mentioned, in a posting that I could read, that it was
indeed for gliding.

Why anyone would do that to their body is beyond me. I mean, the first time
you do a run and someone see's you jump off a building and go
gliding away on some pretty elaborate wings, your career is over. "Oh, yeah,
officer, it was a guy, with WINGS on his back..."

No more club scene for you, baby. It might help ya pick up the babes, but
I doubt its something you want on a run with ya.



> >Gotta "back" Mark on this one. If you want to weld a folding
> >hang-glider to your back that's yer prob. But wings? As in "flap,
> >flap, look Ma, I'm flyin'!?" I don't think so...
>
> Didn't he say "just for gliding"? I trashed the message, since I really
> don't give a toss one way or the other.
>
> PLAYTHING OF A CRUEL GOD
> JAIMIE NICHOLSON
>
>
Message no. 11
From: mneideng@****.caltech.edu (Mark L. Neidengard)
Subject: Re: Wings on a man?
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 09:36:02 -0700 (PDT)
According to Evan Hughes:
>Mark Says:
>> are a little more than a cybernetic replacement appendage. The brain is
>> set up for driving four limbs (plus maybe a tail, given coaxing). Depending
>> on exactly how they were wired, figuring out how to get the brain to drive
>> a third pair of limbs could be a _very_ nasty problem.
>
> Is this really a problem? Riggers can direct aircraft, what would stop
>a modified rig from being applied to a pair of wings?

The essence cost for VCR 1 is enough to qualify for "nasty" in my book. A
"sub-VCR" could be concocted to drive the wings, but you'd probably want it
to "coexist" with the user's normal perception of his own body (rather than
taking over as a normal VCR does). There is also the parts budget for the
"rigger gear" to go inside the wings themselves...in short, I don't see these
things being very light, very concealable, very cheap, or very easy to get
a hold of....
--
/!\/!ark /!\!eidengard, CS Major, VLSI. http://www.cacr.caltech.edu/~mneideng
"Fairy of sleep, controller of illusions" Operator/Jack-of-all-Trades, CACR
"Control the person for my own purpose." "Don't mess with the Dark
Elves!"
-Pirotess, _Record_of_Lodoss_War_ Shadowrunner and Anime Addict
Message no. 12
From: mneideng@****.caltech.edu (Mark L. Neidengard)
Subject: Re: Wings on a man?
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 09:43:28 -0700 (PDT)
According to Brian Rogers:
>
>I cant read a damned thing that Glen writes. I dont know what the hell
>he does to it, but my mailer just looks at it and pukes it onto the
>floor. I dont mind, I just leave it there.

He's using a mailer that generates the abomination known as MIME-encoded
mail messages. Those on Unix systems should be able to compensate partially
with a mailer that interacts with metamail (such as elm), but folks without
such assistance are going to be sucking it up.

*DEATH TO MIME!!*
--
/!\/!ark /!\!eidengard, CS Major, VLSI. http://www.cacr.caltech.edu/~mneideng
"Fairy of sleep, controller of illusions" Operator/Jack-of-all-Trades, CACR
"Control the person for my own purpose." "Don't mess with the Dark
Elves!"
-Pirotess, _Record_of_Lodoss_War_ Shadowrunner and Anime Addict
Message no. 13
From: William Kristoph Wonch <00095857@******.unl.edu>
Subject: Re: Wings on a man?
Date: Mon, 05 Aug 1996 11:49:09 -0500 (CDT)
I think I could see it. It would be expensive, no doubt, but he would
get points for style. Also, the wings could probably be made
detachable. Of course, this is assuming you could find a street doc
insane enough to weld metal plates for gliding to your shoulder
blades. One more question, though. Why would rigger gear be
neceessary. A glider, similar to a hangglider would not need rigger
gear, and the wings not necessarily have to "feel" anything. They
probably wouldn't even have to move much (maybe grips for the hand to
keep them in proper position, and a specialized hinge at the base of
the wing).

On the otherhand, the Gliding feature would be horrible, especially
with metal wings. Probably at peak performance a 1 to 4 Glide ratio
(1 meter fallen for every four meters 'flown') and this would
probably be at the very best. He might be able to improve on this
through major surgery (hollowing out of the bones, etc.) but I can't
imagine the essence cost on a job like that. Plus, the overall gains
would probably not makeup for the loss in Essence.

Bill Wonch

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Wings on a man?, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!