Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: Michael Dolmer cutterspawn@*******.com
Subject: ahh well....was worth a try
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 06:11:18 PST
Hmm...wondered if I should have asked fer 'permission' first. Guess I
should have.

The theory behind this technology was not to have legions of cybered
creatures like the robocop idea. It was formulated to quickly replace
losses from combat without lengthy downtime and expenditure. Instead of
spending thousands or millions of nuyen on cybering up their fighters or
repairing them, they simply reanimate them and send them back in.
Drawbacks...the corpses have no independant thought and simply follow
orders. The upside, quick re-insertion into the field with total disregard
for their own safety. The ultimate 'expendible warrior'.
I got the combined idea from a cheezy movie staring Joe Piscapo and
Universal Soldier (starring studboy Jean-Claude).

Nor am I planning on having this idea stick. The moral outrage of using the
dead or even _killing_ the soldier before sending him out will raise such
opposition once exposed (hence our hero here) that the project will be shut
down and the corp and those involved will be brought up on crimes against
humanity.

Having only the SRII book, I didn't realize they've already come up with
zombies (Voudoun zombie I think you called them?). I figured if we had
ghouls and vampires (even PC vamps and shapeshifters?) the insertion of a
'zombie' wouldn't be too outside the realm of SR. But instead of creating
them from the virus version, they've artificially created it. Having not
acquired my PhD in bio-molecular manipulation I haven't gotten the actual
device figured out yet. Electrically stimulating parts of the brain,
pulmonary and endocrine systems to restart the heart and brain functions.
The 'soul', per se, is not re-acquired....so in effect they're mindless
automatons highly susceptable to suggestion and orders.

As I said, it was not my intent to having this idea 'overrun' the world
plotline. And indeed, this was not my first choice. But like I said in my
previous mail my first idea was already taken by coincidence and I needed a
replacement quick.

If you'd prefer, I can junk the whole storyline. Make the video he stole an
elaborate hoax kinda thing in order for the small and up-and-coming corp to
draw in clients then take the money and run.....

*shrug*


I'll leave it to the collective group. No skin off my teeth.
And until I get a better feel for things 'round here, i'll check ahead here
in PlotD first.

humblest apologies.


> So, how about giving us a more fleshed out idea of what you have
>in mind? Obviously you aren't going for a straight Voudoun zombie, as
>per the description of them in the sourcebooks. How do you see this
>artificial process capable of reanimating and controlling a corpse?
>What technology are you basing the idea on, extrapolating it from, or is
>this something totally new? (*hint* It is far easier to have an
>adaptation accepted than an original idea, but it has been known to
>happen for ideas that are sufficiently well thought out.)
>
> --My two yen
>
> Jeff
>
>
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Message no. 2
From: Mark L. Neidengard mneideng@****.caltech.edu
Subject: ahh well....was worth a try
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 06:52:59 -0800 (PST)
According to Michael Dolmer:
>Hmm...wondered if I should have asked fer 'permission' first. Guess I
>should have.
>
>Having only the SRII book, I didn't realize they've already come up with
>zombies (Voudoun zombie I think you called them?). I figured if we had
>ghouls and vampires (even PC vamps and shapeshifters?) the insertion of a
>'zombie' wouldn't be too outside the realm of SR. But instead of creating
>them from the virus version, they've artificially created it. Having not
>acquired my PhD in bio-molecular manipulation I haven't gotten the actual
>device figured out yet. Electrically stimulating parts of the brain,
>pulmonary and endocrine systems to restart the heart and brain functions.
>The 'soul', per se, is not re-acquired....so in effect they're mindless
>automatons highly susceptable to suggestion and orders.

In other words, cyberware with parts throughout the hosts' body, plus the
equivalent of a Vehicular Autopilot (to supplant the person's consciousness)
and wireless commo gear. I don't have the sourcebooks in front of me to
concoct a specific "parts list", but it sounds to me like you're talking
about a big Essence hit. Just getting the muscles and peripheral nerves to
work sounds like a custom combination of Wired Reflexes and Skill Wires, and
even more custom stuff to keep the organs doing what they're supposed to
do...plus _quite_ a bit for the Autopilot, since those aren't normally supposed
to go in living organisms...

The problem with this is that for the same Essence cost and probably for much
less capital outlay, you can give a soldier higher levels of enhancements
(Wired Reflexes, or even MBW, Dermal Sheathing, Bone Lacing, Muscle
Replacement, etc. etc.) _and_ avoid the whole moral dimension all together.
Also, you said that this technology was intended for "rapid turn-around" of
soldiers fallen in battle. On a modern battlefield, if a soldier gets _hit_
with something it's probably going to do a _lot_ of damage, and even if you
could circumvent the loss of consciousness you're still faced with the fact
that the _body_ is trashed. Blood vessesls severed, bones broken, organs
ruptured...quite possibly a lot of tissue just _missing_. Including part of
the cyberware that's supposed to "reanimate" the guy.

In short, it doesn't sound like a viable technology for use in battle. Not
that this should _necessarily_ stop you from using this plot. There have been
other instances in ShadowTK's past where part of a corp did something
commercially unviable for reasons of its own - I'm thinking particularly of
some of the Chimeric Humans stuff that Hayashi worked on. The technology
involved might have been world-altering, but due to commercial unprofitability
and other things it was implemented on the list in such a way that it was
self-limiting.

>As I said, it was not my intent to having this idea 'overrun' the world
>plotline. And indeed, this was not my first choice. But like I said in my
>previous mail my first idea was already taken by coincidence and I needed a
>replacement quick.

Well, assuming you don't want to _axe_ the whole thing on the spot, I think
the best thing would be to have the people involved with the project
confronted by the fact that, beyond the ethical quandry, it's also
_unprofitable_. Research teams can do all sorts of wacky stuff when people
question their raison d'etrat.

--
/!\/!ark /!\!eidengard, EE Grad, VLSI. http://keyframe.cjas.org/~mneideng/
"Fairy of sleep, controller of illusions" Maigo no Daigakuinsei, Cornell U.
"Control the person for my own purpose." "Don't mess with the Dark
Elves!"
-Pirotess, _Record_of_Lodoss_War_ Shadowrunner and Anime Addict
Message no. 3
From: Michael Dolmer cutterspawn@*******.com
Subject: ahh well....was worth a try
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 08:10:26 PST
>In other words, cyberware with parts throughout the hosts' body, plus the
>equivalent of a Vehicular Autopilot (to supplant the person's
>consciousness)
>and wireless commo gear. I don't have the sourcebooks in front of me to
>concoct a specific "parts list", but it sounds to me like you're talking
>about a big Essence hit. Just getting the muscles and peripheral

Nope…..the premise is the dead body goes into the machine, and the *machine*
reanimates it...one shot. boom. done. No cyberware implants involved,
hence no major costs involved. No autopilot required. A simple radio
tranciever placed inside the ear to transmit verbal orders (maybe a camera
as a headset like in Universal Soldier), and the soul-less (not brain-less)
automaton carries out the task. They aren't super soldiers in the idea that
they're as fast and deadly as a Street Sam. They're just regular soldiers
that are harder than hell to kill by conventional means.

So it’s cheap and cost effective. No big essence hit. And in the TK post I
mentioned that the automaton can be combat effective even if taking heavy
hits (cuz they don't feel pain), and that 73 percent (I estimated this
number, maybe I should lower it?) of casualties can be re-animated. So
obviously those blown to little bits can’t be brought back, but those
_mostly whole_ can be (even limping on shattered bones or hopping or
crawling towards targets while firing).

Sure there’s some creative leaps here (it was a cheezy movie I got the idea
from, after all). How does one of these things work if their full of lead?
If part of their brain is shot up. But it’s no more a creative leap than a
vampire taking a sword through the gut, rolling on it to slice open someone
else and get up and walk away. They’re the walking dead. They just
'function'.


>less capital outlay, you can give a soldier higher levels of enhancements
>(Wired Reflexes, or even MBW, Dermal Sheathing, Bone Lacing, Muscle
>Replacement, etc. etc.) _and_ avoid the whole moral dimension all together.

Aye...but that'll cost _way_ more than this _plus_ have a long recuperation
time for the soldier. This reanimation process brings them up and around in
minutes after one application of the machine.

>soldiers fallen in battle. On a modern battlefield, if a soldier gets
>_hit_
>with something it's probably going to do a _lot_ of damage, and even if you
>could circumvent the loss of consciousness you're still faced with the fact
>that the _body_ is trashed. Blood vessesls severed, bones broken, organs
>ruptured...quite possibly a lot of tissue just _missing_. Including

Don't soldiers still use _guns_ on the battlefield? We as runners are hit
by these same guns and we can be repaired. Sure a serious wound is a big
gaping hole....but that would slow down the _living_. As I stated above,
they don't feel pain. They'll walk as much as they can on broken legs, they
wouldn't be slowed by loss of blood (tho they would eventually die). Your
typical cinema 'zombie'. It would just take more and more shots to bring
one of these fraggers down than just a hole in the chest. You'd have to
literally blow them apart one by one. And by then a bunch of them would
already have over-run your position...no to mention the extra ammo each
defender would have to waste than against your typical soldier.

>In short, it doesn't sound like a viable technology for use in battle.

Does it sound more viable now that i've explained it? Not expensive, no big
essence problems....etc. We just have to make the creative leap that
there's technology out there that can actually do this. Still experimental,
and as I posted they haven't gotten long-term results back. Maybe the
zombies degrade after a certain period, start falling apart, or their brains
turn to mush and they can't follow orders.....that's something I was going
to work on later, again, to make sure that this gets pulled to a halt and
doesn't overly-effect the world plotline.

Still open to questions and criticisms before I scrap the idea....anyone
else?

Cutter/Asmodeon
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Message no. 4
From: James Dening james@************.force9.co.uk
Subject: ahh well....was worth a try
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 16:14:06 -0000
On Wednesday, March 08, 2000 4:10 PM, Michael Dolmer [SMTP:cutterspawn@*******.com] wrote:
<snipo> Nope?..the premise is the dead body goes into the machine, and the *machine*

> reanimates it...one shot. boom. done. No cyberware implants involved,
> hence no major costs involved. No autopilot required. A simple radio
> tranciever placed inside the ear to transmit verbal orders (maybe a camera
> as a headset like in Universal Soldier), and the soul-less (not brain-less)
> automaton carries out the task. They aren't super soldiers in the idea that
> they're as fast and deadly as a Street Sam. They're just regular soldiers
> that are harder than hell to kill by conventional means.
<BIGGGG SNIP>

FWIW, I don't see the problem with this. They're no *harder* really than normal goons,
more
difficult to kill, but with no real intelligence/initiative. They're really just like
biological robots.
At the end of the day, they're creepy and nasty and scary, but I don't think they
unbalance the
game. Anyway, I like the idea of them gradually falling apart. Like the Unisol project,
they might need some
expensive 'essence' (not Essence!) every 48 hours or they degrade.

Like Cutter says, they're not stronger/faster than regular soldiers, just more difficult
to kill, and IMO,
that's counterbalanced by their lack of independance.

Anyway, this is S-tk - it's not unbalancing anything that I can think of, and I'm sure
(biiiig hint) Cutter
wouldn't let it do so....

I say run with it and let's see how all our chars cope with it - be nice to have some of
us get a bloody nose
for a change....

James.
NANGDE
Message no. 5
From: Mockingbird mockingbird@*********.com
Subject: ahh well....was worth a try
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 10:45:28 -0600
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Dolmer <cutterspawn@*******.com>
>
> Nope...the premise is the dead body goes into the machine, and the
*machine*
> reanimates it...one shot. boom. done. No cyberware implants involved,
> hence no major costs involved. No autopilot required. A simple radio
> tranciever placed inside the ear to transmit verbal orders (maybe a camera
> as a headset like in Universal Soldier), and the soul-less (not
brain-less)
> automaton carries out the task. They aren't super soldiers in the idea
that
> they're as fast and deadly as a Street Sam. They're just regular soldiers
> that are harder than hell to kill by conventional means.
>


Now I haven't read M&M yet, but what about nanites? Stick the body in the
machine, and the machine pumps it full of nanites that attach to the spinal
cord and brain stem. The nanites send electrical impulses to the muscles
and take the place of the cognitive functions. After x hours/days the
nanites run out of power or burn themselves to death and the system shuts
down.

Mockingbird
-who sat with friends and tried to work out how the UniSols would work in
real life.
Message no. 6
From: Mark L. Neidengard mneideng@****.caltech.edu
Subject: ahh well....was worth a try
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 12:36:36 -0800 (PST)
According to Michael Dolmer:
>Nope…..the premise is the dead body goes into the machine, and the *machine*
>reanimates it...one shot. boom. done. No cyberware implants involved,
>hence no major costs involved.

In other words, you're conceiving this machine as a "defibrilator" for the
brain. I suppose I can _sort_of_ see this idea...the limiting factor would
probably be time from "fatality" to insertion. As soon as the neurons start
dying and losing their connectedness no attempt to "restart" the brain could
hope to be successful.

The question then becomes, what makes the people any harder to kill than
before? Are their pain centers damaged or destroyed in the process, giving
them the effect of some drug like PCP?
--
/!\/!ark /!\!eidengard, EE Grad, VLSI. http://keyframe.cjas.org/~mneideng/
"Fairy of sleep, controller of illusions" Maigo no Daigakuinsei, Cornell U.
"Control the person for my own purpose." "Don't mess with the Dark
Elves!"
-Pirotess, _Record_of_Lodoss_War_ Shadowrunner and Anime Addict
Message no. 7
From: Michael Dolmer cutterspawn@*******.com
Subject: ahh well....was worth a try
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 13:33:36 PST
>In other words, you're conceiving this machine as a "defibrilator" for the
>brain. I suppose I can _sort_of_ see this idea...the limiting factor

Sure...for the brain, muscles and corornary system. A 'jumpstart' if you
will.

would
>probably be time from "fatality" to insertion. As soon as the
Right. If the neuronic pathways aren't present then certain things won't
work. Ie: If a bullet rips through the medulla or spinal chord he wouldn't
be able to gain conciousness or walk...but if it went through part of the
cerebellum he'd still be fine (just not able to talk too well if I remember
my biology correctly).

>
>The question then becomes, what makes the people any harder to kill than
>before? Are their pain centers damaged or destroyed in the process, giving
>them the effect of some drug like PCP?

*shrug*

Could be. Maybe the pain centers are inhibited or destroyed...kinda like
that villan in the ol' Buck Rogers series....or whatever 'unknown' is
present in the undead that allows them to pull a sword out of their gut and
walk away as if nothing happened.

I wasn't putting too much into the technical aspects of 'why' it could work
(since it probably wouldn't in reality regardless of the
technology)......Just that it seems to work now (how it works being only
known to a select few involved in the project), get my man in trouble for
finding it, then having the project fail/be exposed and terminated or
whatever.

Cutter


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Message no. 8
From: Mark L. Neidengard mneideng@****.caltech.edu
Subject: ahh well....was worth a try
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 15:18:39 -0800 (PST)
According to Michael Dolmer:
>I wrote:
>>The question then becomes, what makes the people any harder to kill than
>>before? Are their pain centers damaged or destroyed in the process, giving
>>them the effect of some drug like PCP?
>
>*shrug*
>
>Could be. Maybe the pain centers are inhibited or destroyed...kinda like
>that villan in the ol' Buck Rogers series....or whatever 'unknown' is
>present in the undead that allows them to pull a sword out of their gut and
>walk away as if nothing happened.

Most of the time, it's because the undead don't have functional organs - the
meat bodies are merely an instrument to allow the spiritual being which is
the actual undead to interact with the physical world. The way Shadowrun
is set up, it's easier for spiritual forces to affect natural objects than
it is for them to affect synthetic ones.

>I wasn't putting too much into the technical aspects of 'why' it could work
>(since it probably wouldn't in reality regardless of the
>technology)......Just that it seems to work now (how it works being only
>known to a select few involved in the project), get my man in trouble for
>finding it, then having the project fail/be exposed and terminated or
>whatever.

Heh, you'll have to bear with some of us on the list being real sticklers for
plausibility analysis. Spending at least _some_ thought on how plot device
X would work is probably worthwhile. After all, some of those inventions are
happening around us in the real world as we speak. ^_^
--
/!\/!ark /!\!eidengard, EE Grad, VLSI. http://keyframe.cjas.org/~mneideng/
"Fairy of sleep, controller of illusions" Maigo no Daigakuinsei, Cornell U.
"Control the person for my own purpose." "Don't mess with the Dark
Elves!"
-Pirotess, _Record_of_Lodoss_War_ Shadowrunner and Anime Addict
Message no. 9
From: Mach mach@****.caltech.edu
Subject: ahh well....was worth a try
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 02:40:00 -0800 (PST)
Was meaning to get around to this sooner...been busy.

On Wed, 8 Mar 2000, Michael Dolmer wrote:

In reponse to Mark Neidengard:
> >In other words, cyberware with parts throughout the hosts' body, plus the
> >equivalent of a Vehicular Autopilot (to supplant the person's
> >consciousness)
> >and wireless commo gear. I don't have the sourcebooks in front of me to
> >concoct a specific "parts list", but it sounds to me like you're
talking
> >about a big Essence hit. Just getting the muscles and peripheral

I think what Mark was refering to here was based on the idea of a
human-drone that has been used before a few times on the list, where a
certain nasty fellow had people modified to be puppeteered by him via a
vehicle control rig and serve as his surrogate. The main difference
being replacing the control rig with a vehicular autopilot designed with
a human body in mind as the vehicle.

> Nope…..the premise is the dead body goes into the machine, and the *machine*
> reanimates it...one shot. boom. done. No cyberware implants involved,
> hence no major costs involved. No autopilot required. A simple radio
> tranciever placed inside the ear to transmit verbal orders (maybe a camera
> as a headset like in Universal Soldier), and the soul-less (not brain-less)
> automaton carries out the task.

I think this is the biggest problem that Mark and I had with the idea:
that there existed technology in the ShadowRun World that would allow
for there to be a machine where you could stick a dead body in one end
and spit out a zombie soldier on the other. If such a thing is allowed,
we may have to rething where people view the technological level of the
world to be. I think we also would beg to differ on the "hence no major
costs involved." I doubt reanimation in any form would come cheaply.
Another point: once dead, the human brain is a rather useless meaty
blob.

> Sure there’s some creative leaps here (it was a cheezy movie I got the idea
> from, after all).

Well, the reason one brings this up on PlotD is that you are making
creative leaps in the _communal_ sandbox. Best to be careful where
those leaps land you. =)

> But it’s no more a creative leap than a
> vampire taking a sword through the gut, rolling on it to slice open someone
> else and get up and walk away. They’re the walking dead. They just
> 'function'.

Sort of. One major difference is that ShadowRun already includes rules
and info about vampires. What Mark has done regarding their social
natures isn't as well covered in their sourcebooks, but I have yet to
see him violate anything that has specifically been said regarding them.
It is known that they can very rapidly regenerate from nearly any basic
physical damage that they aren't specifically vulnerable to. So, if you
are a vampire facing someone with a non-magical sword, why would you
worry (barring the momentary pain) if someone rammed it into you up to
the hilt? Hense, if that was your opponent's most dangerous weapon
against you, better it be safely locked inside your innards than
swinging at your head?

It isn't that I have any problem with zombies, per se. ShadowRun
already has rules for the magical version of them. But they, like most
things in the SR universe, don't "just 'function'," they have some
explanation behind them. Arguements about what ShadowRun has already
allowed into canon and how well/poorly FASA has been willing to explain
them, or even how well they follow their own continuity (i.e. FASA
demanding teleportation is impossible, and then having some
uber-villains teleport away) is another matter entirely. Mind you, even
those sorts of things are discussed here in PlotD, but in general,
everything on this list is either directly from ShadowRun, or based on
it. The further an idea is from what has been described by FASA to
exist in the SR universe, the better the explanation has to be for it to
be considered for being allowed into the ShadowTk continuity.

A mighty McGuffin that is pulled out of the blue without much thought is
not a completely innocent thing. You may want to include it with the
best of intentions for making your story cool, but it opens the door to
other writers who think "well if he did _THAT_ wait 'til they get a load
of _THIS_." In other words, it sets a precident. Pretty soon, writers
are leaving the stated levels of technology, magic, etc. behind and
potentially it could all snowball into something that has nothing to do
with ShadowRun anymore and will be unrecognizable for any new writers
wishing to join in. Which is why PlotD is here, and I felt the need
to call you on the carpet (good naturedly and with respect, at least).

> Does it sound more viable now that i've explained it? Not expensive, no big
> essence problems....etc. We just have to make the creative leap that
> there's technology out there that can actually do this.

Actually, no, you didn't really explain it (stating that you haven't
"gotten the device figured out yet"), and _because_ you claim it to be
inexpensive and have no major problems, that does set off the warning
bells of the other writers on this list. Why? Because if it was so
easy, so good, and so cost effective, why doesn't everybody do it? It
is a lot easier to win people over to your ideas if you are able to
see your idea from all angles, and be able to discuss the down-sides of
any idea as easily as the up-sides. As for the "creative leap," well
I'm not sure I'm willing to jump as far as you, but do read on.

> Still open to questions and criticisms before I scrap the idea....anyone
> else?

You don't have to scrap the idea on the first hints of critisism. You
just have to be willing to modify or refine your ideas in such a way
that you can address the honest concerns of your detractors. I didn't
wish my response to have you think that I was completely against your
using an idea like this in any form. I just wanted to you to think it
out more thoroughly and make sure you are roughly within the bounds of
what ShadowRun can allow.

There always has been, and regretibly probably always will be a need for
"cannon fodder" on the battlefield: the guy on point who finds out there
is an enemy sniper by getting himself shot, the first squad to hit the
beach, the team that has to charge the hill because, damnit, somebody
has to. A dead soldier is a terrible waste of resources. I agree with
these points with no reservation. A means to reanimate dead soldiers
and put them back to work seems to be an interesting, and useful idea at
its most basic. The main point raised here on PlotD is the manner of
execution, so that it is "believeable" for the other members of the
list.

While you only asked for questions and criticism, I'm willing to put an
idea of my own on the table that would at least satisfy my own concerns
and perhaps you can modify it to taste to suit the story you want to
tell. The McGuffin, in this case as someone else suggested, is the use
of nanotechnology of a relatively advanced and experimental nature, but
not completely outside the realm of what I see as possible in 2061
ShadowRun. To avoid confusion with their Voudoun-generated cousins,
I'll call these zombies Shamblers.

The body is an amazing piece of engineering, complete with sensors,
mobile apendages, and an array of support systems. Its purpose: keep
alive the brain it caries inside and serve it at least until it has
created progeny, and hopefully to help insure their survival as well.
Not the most refined design, but quite functional. As long as it has a
brain to use it. Otherwise it is a rather useless hunk of flesh and
bone. Unless it is turned into a Shambler.

The process starts with a dead soldier. After ascertaining brain death
(and therefore making pointless any attempt at resuscitation or
healing), the corpse is injected with drugs and chemicals to stabilize
the body and keep its organs, especially musculature, alive. Its wounds
are simply cauterized shut. Then a small computer with basic autopilot
/ combat programming would be stuffed somewhere in the body. Attatched
to it would be the nanite injector. From it, Shambler nanites spread
throughout the body. The "giant machine" you mention could exist. Its
purpose would be to scan the body and direct the nanites to their
destinations as well as programming them. Sensor nanites would attatch
to optic and auditory nerves. Motor nanites would integrate themselves
into major muscle groups. If the nervous system was not too damaged it
could be reused as a communications network for the nanites, or they
would simply leave a "trail" of data fiber on their way to their final
destination.

Collectively, the computer and nanites would control the body as an
organic drone. Given the number of nanites being relatively small
compared to the number of nerves in a living human body, the sensory
input from them would be of low quality, and the movements would lack
fine control, giving them jerky movements and hense the term for them
being "Shamblers." They could pick up, aim, and fire a weapon, but
don't expect to use one as a sniper. They would best be employed as
cannon fodder or shock troops in close-quarters battle.

I don't see the necessary connections and nanite programming being
instantaneous, so you won't get your zombies back on the field in
minutes, but hours isn't unbelievable. They will be relatively
unintelligent drones, without any memories of the person who used to
walk around in their skins because they nearly completely bypass any use
of the brain. They would be impervious to pain or fear, but they would
still have to have a beating heart and breathing lungs in order to keep
their musculature alive. On the other hand, if you did rip out their
heart, they could continue to fight until their muscles ran out of
oxygen, which is far longer than what it takes the brain to run out of
oxygen. The only way to dispatch them immediately is to destroy their
control computer, but that can be anywhere in the body, most likely
_not_ in the head. Depending on how long you have to keep them around,
you would have to give them water and may also have to feed them.
Since they are dead, essence is no longer really a conscern, and
magically, they are no more animate than a side of beef, which is a
mixed blessing / curse. Their "lifespan" would be relatively short,
both in deference to the fact that, without an essence, the body has
"given up the ghost" and metaphysically wants to die in the same way as
a person with sub-zero escence, but also, without proper endocrine
regulation by the brain and other such subtleties, the body would
eventually begin malfunction and fall apart.

As discussed by others, the nail in the coffin of this concept is
expense. Nanites, while small, are extremely expensive, and the "big
machine" that programs and organizes them isn't something you can find
in the Sears catalog either (not to mention not being something portable
enough to bring to say, a M*A*S*H unit). In the end, if you are some
third-world dictator who would be interested in zombie troops and cannon
fodder, it will be cheaper to just by more live soldiers than to
reanimate one dead one. So, definitely for the time being--at least
until nanotech becomes a lot cheaper, and your programming machine can
become cheaper and more portable, and your zombies can last longer than
a few days, nobody will be buying. Getting them to move less like a
_Night of the Living Dead_ reject and being able to hit more than the
broad side of a barn would also be necessary before anybody would want
to field the system.

So, in the end, you get your zombie soldiers, and you get your big
machine. But you also have a good reason why this won't be becoming
that popular of an idea. It is a bit far-fetched, but doesn't break the
bank, tech-wise. Take it, in whole or in part, or leave it. It's your
choice.

--My two yen

Jeff

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about ahh well....was worth a try, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.