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Message no. 1
From: Doctor Doom <jch8169@*******.TAMU.EDU>
Subject: Burning Bright
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 1994 04:47:40 -0500
Meine Kameraden:

The issue here, for me, is not the particulars of the information
contained within the product of "Burning Bright," per se, but rather the
manner in which it was unceremoniously dropped, akin to a bombshell -- mark
its effects thus far, 'pon the unsuspecting list.

Herr Skirvin is correct in saying that this shock and berievement
witnessed here shall merely be echoed in the various campaigns conducted
across the country when news of these events of earth-shaking portent
reach the ears of Game Masters. (And I must make mention here that I
cannot presently see why one could consider the nature of these events
of any lesser magnitude.) Howe'er, at this point, the parallel expiates.

Herr Skirvin, with sincerity, claims that owing to this fact, as
'tis supposed to give one pause, and the list denizens should continue life
as usual. This fails to take account of the fact that ShadowTalk, unlike
the campaigns to which he refers, is a mailserver dedicated towards the
purpose of interactive, I emphasize INTERACTIVE fiction. That is to say
it is the dialectic of various minds working in concert towards an
ostensibly common aim: The creation and cultivation of a ShadowRun milieu
and hopefully produce some fairly decent prose in the process. It may
therefore be viewed in the paradigm of a team effort, admittedly with some
members working in closer conjunction with some more than others, but
ne'ertheless all laboring in a defined environment. In such an atmosphere,
it is rightly deemed inappropriate behaviour, perhaps even crass, to step
'pon the toes and threads of others without forewarning. Team members can
not and should not be permitted to let fly with 16 tonne weights on their
associates (or their plots) with such a bolt from the blue delivery.

I concede the fact that "Burning Bright" and "Double Exposure"
are
official dispatches and are therefore to be considered recent additions to
the Dark Lord on High's canon. No one on this list could genuinely accuse
me of not holding considerable respect for Herr Dowd; NEVERTHELESS, it is
the prerogative of the Administrators to "filter" occurrences of such great
influence and significance for the safeguarding of plotlines en progress.
This is in an effort to accomodate the creative efforts of those present.
Do not misunderstand, owing to its nature as being issued from FASA and its
obvious salience to the Game World, I do wish for this information to be
incorporated; contrariwise, propriety dictates that suitable warning should
be disseminated among the authors collected here ... 'tis one of the
purposes for which Plot-D was developed, after all.

Furthermore, the administrative actions up until this point have
proceeded from earlier established precedents. With the assassination of
the Pope plot, the entire list was treated to an argument which pointed out
a fairly basic tenant of ShadowTalk was not to gratuitously mess about with
the world. Admonitions were issued against this behaviour in the future.
Moreover, in the case of a far earlier plot sought by Michael Goldberg,
which necessitated the inclusion of information within (as I recollect)
"Double Exposure" and "Bug City," Herr Carter informed him to await
the
publishing of "Bug City" before proceeding. Herr Goldberg publicly
consented to this ruling.

In this particular instance, you strode boldly ahead and enacted
your plotline, unbeknownst to the list or administrators. As these
materials are evidently not yet widely available, certainly you can
comprehend our dismay and chagrin at the discovery of such ill boding
transpirations, especially in light of plots still en flux? My colleague,
Herr Carter, seeking to prevent the situation from developing to an
irretrievable condition, reigned in the plotline with a terse posting
which evidently succeeded in its purpose of gaining everyone's rapt
attention. It could be claimed, and I would make the case for him to be
operating under the admonitions he issued to Herr Goldberg previously.
In any case, I share his sentiments, reasoning, and viewpoint and support
his actions.

Finally, Herr Skirvin, and I mean this with all due respect, to
submit an objection against the delay placed upon your plotline as
inconvenient to your aims while simultaneously brushing aside the howls of
discontent from your fellow list participants whose respective threads have
been violently incommoded (tho' I concede not irreparably damaged) owing to
your actions is to betray considerable cognitive dissonance on your part.
One cannot put forth an appeal based on the self-same tenant of whose
validity one has dismissed in the instances of similar appeals, as it is
not logically consistent.

What must occur presently is either an judgement to await the
eventual publication of "Bug City" or at least the wider distribution of
"Burning Bright," or the presentation of a detail exposition and
enumeration upon the events contained within "Burning Bright" and hence
forrunning the evidently delayed shipping of the novel. In either of
the cases, it is in an effort such that the information may be discussed
upon this forum.

________________ _______ _______ ____ ____
\ _____ \ / \ / \ / \/ \ >>> Attack,
\ | | | |---___ | ___---| | || || | attack, and
| | | | |_____/ | \_____| | || || | if in doubt
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- | | | | | | || || | ATTACK! <<<
"Iron hand in a | |___/ / \_______/ \_______/|____| |____| -=-=-=-=-=-
velvet glove." | / ||
-- Charles V |_______/ Dread Executor of Administrative Tasks for Hayden

^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^
"There are times when one must govern liberally and times when one must be
dictatorial; everything changes, there is no eternity here."
-- Chancellor Otto von Bismarck-Schoenhausen
Message no. 2
From: Francois 'Fu' Uldry <ULDRY@***.UNIGE.CH>
Subject: Re: Burning Bright
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 1994 11:07:12 WET-DST
Sirs Skirvin & Doom
I got something to add to fuel the discussion :
if my interpretation is correct double exposure is supposed to happen in
2055........ There is a good chance that the events depicted in burning
bright will happen in 55 too... no ?
Then we will have one year to prepare ourselves to Bug City... no ?

bye.
it was my 2 cents !

Fu.
Message no. 3
From: Doctor Doom <jch8169@*******.TAMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Burning Bright
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 1994 05:27:35 -0500
Herr Uldry:

> 2055........ There is a good chance that the events depicted in burning
> bright will happen in 55 too... no ?

Affirmative.

> Then we will have one year to prepare ourselves to Bug City... no ?

Ah, no. As enticing a solution to the conundrum which we presently face
as such a suggestion is, the present year /is/ 2055. ShadowRun's setting
flows forward in time at a point 61 years in the future. The times, verily,
are upon us already!

> bye.
> it was my 2 cents !

Here is your change. Excellent suggestion. Regrettably, shan't work.

Doctor Doom
Message no. 4
From: Francois 'Fu' Uldry <ULDRY@***.UNIGE.CH>
Subject: Re: Burning Bright
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 1994 11:46:12 WET-DST
sir Doom !
ooops mea culpa errare humanum est !
I misxed the things with my campaign where we are in january 2054...
You must at least 6 months later than FASA... They are in 2055... Good
I got some adventures for 2053.. so let's start and then we will see !!!

sorry if you think that this posting is a waste of bandwidth... but i
was quite sure that the list was in 54... ;) oops !!!

bye !
Fu.
Message no. 5
From: Tim Skirvin <tskirvin@***.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Burning Bright
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 1994 14:30:21 -0500
We're already IN 2055 in the world. It takes place 61 years in
the future.

Nice try, though...

(Bug City comes out in January).

Tim Skirvin | "They didn't die for nothing, they died to bring
tskirvin@***.uiuc.edu| us Pepsi!" -- Mr Sutton on "Glory"
Message no. 6
From: Brian Rogers <rogers@****.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Burning Bright
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 1994 14:43:34 -0500
Bug city is due out (according to the dude I talked with at Bear (ted?))
by November or EARLY december. Just in time for Xmas, fellas.
Message no. 7
From: Tim Skirvin <tskirvin@***.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Burning Bright
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 1994 14:47:05 -0500
Not from what Tom said. I asked. He said January.

We'll see what happens. In the mean time, I just mailed him again,
this time with a sortof plea to get him to join up on the listservs or at
least WARN us before things are going to screw up, sortof like Lou Prosperi
on the Earthdawn list.

Tim Skirvin | "They didn't die for nothing, they died to bring
tskirvin@***.uiuc.edu| us Pepsi!" -- Mr Sutton on "Glory"
Message no. 8
From: Tim Skirvin <tskirvin@***.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Burning Bright
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 1994 14:52:50 -0500
I'll make some quick comments now, and I'll make more later.

First of all, I'll note that I was off the lists, inadvertantly, for
a while due to computer troubles. Eventually, I rejoined them all, but
I missed several weeks in the mean time. MANY conversations were probably
lost in this time, enough that I probably missed most of the important ones.

Second, the only thing I see wrong now is that I am apparently
completely at fault for the situation. I merely followed FASA, with an
assumption that all talk about the Chicago situation had been background
on another node for the STalk people. My best solution was that. If you
will note, I did NOT actually do anything major at all, beyond use plot
lines that probably should not yet have been used.

Third, I'll apoligize for any problems. I do realize that a lot
of things were screwed up with my stuff...still, I don't think that deleting
my posts is the best.

I'll reply in more depth later. In the mean time, just accept
a semi-apology.

Tim Skirvin | "They didn't die for nothing, they died to bring
tskirvin@***.uiuc.edu| us Pepsi!" -- Mr Sutton on "Glory"
Message no. 9
From: Tim Skirvin <tskirvin@***.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Burning Bright
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 1994 16:19:30 -0500
> Finally, Herr Skirvin, and I mean this with all due
> respect, to submit an objection against the delay placed upon your
> plotline as

Here's one part I'm annoyed by. According to this, delays that will
kill the plotline are OK, as long as they're not for the majority of the
list.

I don't mind fixing up stuff. But I DO mind this "Chicago stuff
has not happened, and WILL not happen" stuff that I've seen some of.
I'm willing to compromise, but not on the fact that the FASA stuff has
and/or will happen. I can compromise on when.

That's the problem.

(In the mean time, could our Fearless Leader send me another
copy of the FAQ? I seemed to have misplaced mine...)

Tim Skirvin | "They didn't die for nothing, they died to bring
tskirvin@***.uiuc.edu| us Pepsi!" -- Mr Sutton on "Glory"
Message no. 10
From: Nightfox <DJWA@******.UCC.NAU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Burning Bright
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 1994 20:34:52 -0700
> Second, the only thing I see wrong now is that I am apparently
>completely at fault for the situation.

Not Completely - there are other things that could have been done that weren't
and were never thought of. Besides - I usually try not to say "its your fault"
mostly because it is useless and destructive - rather I say "whats the problem
and how will we fix it"

>I merely followed FASA, with an
>assumption that all talk about the Chicago situation had been background
>on another node for the STalk people. My best solution was that. If you

Nope - Its all on this one board - makes things easier that way. This is the
main chat board (and the most active). The other chat boards are the ones you
see in the Shadowland entries of the books.

Nightfox
Message no. 11
From: Tim Skirvin <tskirvin@***.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Burning Bright
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 16:09:47 -0500
> Nope - Its all on this one board - makes things easier that way.
> This is the main chat board (and the most active). The other chat
> boards are the ones you see in the Shadowland entries of the books.

Now HERE'S something we can discuss...

THIS is the main forum? I doubt it. I see this one as a relatively big
one, but not huge...otherwise, there'd be more people posting...

Tim Skirvin | "They didn't die for nothing, they died to bring
tskirvin@***.uiuc.edu| us Pepsi!" -- Mr Sutton on "Glory"
Message no. 12
From: Brad Shantz <BRADS@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Burning Bright...
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 08:49:03 -0800
Nice touch with the Operation: Mindcrime references, Mike.

Brad
Message no. 13
From: Mike Goldberg <michael.goldberg@*******.COM>
Subject: Re[2]: Burning Bright...
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 09:50:55 MST
Thanks. Hey, while I'm at it, can Midnight get the next two weeks off
from your job. He sort of would like to go away for a little while. .
. . *grin*

Mike


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Burning Bright...
Author: ShadowTk Plot and Administrative Discussion
<PLOTD@********.ITRIBE.NET> at SMTP-PO
Date: 12/16/96 9:53 AM


Nice touch with the Operation: Mindcrime references, Mike.

Brad
Message no. 14
From: Mike Goldberg <michael.goldberg@*******.COM>
Subject: Re[2]: Burning Bright...
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 09:54:46 MST
Oh, I should say something about this.... the reason that Blitzkrieg
sent it to Midnight was that Blitz was pretty sure that Midnight was
one of the few characters on the list who knows enough about the 20th
century to know the reference. Also, it gave Midnight that last
remaining proof that he needed of Nightmare's plan.

Mike


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Burning Bright...
Author: ShadowTk Plot and Administrative Discussion
<PLOTD@********.ITRIBE.NET> at SMTP-PO
Date: 12/16/96 9:53 AM


Nice touch with the Operation: Mindcrime references, Mike.

Brad
Message no. 15
From: Brad Shantz <BRADS@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Burning Bright...
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 09:07:11 -0800
Not a problem. Jasmine is involved with Brian Rogers run...(Hi Brian,
yes, I am paying attention.)

I need to post something about our run, because Shields does have a
handle on the sewer entry point in the alley way, and Midnight did
notice something as well. (More Later)

The nice thing about Shields' run is the lack of urgency.

Brad


>----------
>From: Mike Goldberg[SMTP:michael.goldberg@*******.COM]
>Sent: Monday, December 16, 1996 8:50 AM
>To: PLOTD@********.ITRIBE.NET
>Subject: Re[2]: Burning Bright...
>
> Thanks. Hey, while I'm at it, can Midnight get the next two weeks
>off
> from your job. He sort of would like to go away for a little
>while. .
> . . *grin*
>
> Mike
>
>
>______________________________ Reply Separator
>_________________________________
>Subject: Re: Burning Bright...
>Author: ShadowTk Plot and Administrative Discussion
><PLOTD@********.ITRIBE.NET> at SMTP-PO
>Date: 12/16/96 9:53 AM
>
>
>Nice touch with the Operation: Mindcrime references, Mike.
>
>Brad
>

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Burning Bright, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.