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Message no. 1
From: Wraith <wraith@************.COM>
Subject: Character Questions
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 22:30:50 -0500
Ok, lets make see if I send this to the right place this time...

I was wondering if there would be any objection to an Elven Otaku
character...I was rereading the VR2 rules and thought it would be
interesting to play on (Ok, I had just finished reading Technobabel, but I'm
sure that had NOTHING to do with it <G>). Some comments that I heard when I
sent this to the wrong list a week or so ago was that no one wanted super
deckers...not what I had in mind...actually the CoT has given me a way to
separate my character from his Otaku community AND explain why he isn't up
to snuff with other Otaku. Questions, comments appreciated, if you want, I
can send the background that I have fleshed out if you want more Info.

Perhaps I can also get in on the Matrix hunt for Abaddon if there aren't too
many strenuous objections?

Wraith
Message no. 2
From: "Mark L. Neidengard" <mneideng@****.CALTECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Character Questions
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 20:58:53 -0700
According to Wraith:
>Ok, lets make see if I send this to the right place this time...
>
>I was wondering if there would be any objection to an Elven Otaku
>character...I was rereading the VR2 rules and thought it would be
>interesting to play on (Ok, I had just finished reading Technobabel, but I'm
>sure that had NOTHING to do with it <G>). Some comments that I heard when I
>sent this to the wrong list a week or so ago was that no one wanted super
>deckers...not what I had in mind...actually the CoT has given me a way to
>separate my character from his Otaku community AND explain why he isn't up
>to snuff with other Otaku. Questions, comments appreciated, if you want, I
>can send the background that I have fleshed out if you want more Info.

"Super deckers" is one thing. Otaku are another. I personally don't like
the entire concept and I'd be happiest if they weren't introduced onto the
list. I am, however, only one opinion here. ^_^ My view is that anything
that can be done with an Otaku can be done just as well with an "ordinary"
decker of the appropriate studliness.
--
/!\/!ark /!\!eidengard, CS Grad, VLSI http://www.cacr.caltech.edu/~mneideng
"Fairy of sleep, controller of illusions" Operator/Jack-of-all-Trades, CACR
"Control the person for my own purpose." "Don't mess with the Dark
Elves!"
-Pirotess, _Record_of_Lodoss_War_ Shadowrunner and Anime Addict
Message no. 3
From: Jeffrey Mach <mach@****.CALTECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Character Questions
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 21:34:09 -0700
On Mon, 27 Apr 1998, Wraith wrote:

> Ok, lets make see if I send this to the right place this time...

This would be the place.

> I was wondering if there would be any objection to an Elven Otaku
> character...I was rereading the VR2 rules and thought it would be
> interesting to play on (Ok, I had just finished reading Technobabel, but I'm
> sure that had NOTHING to do with it <G>). Some comments that I heard when I
> sent this to the wrong list a week or so ago was that no one wanted super
> deckers...not what I had in mind...actually the CoT has given me a way to
> separate my character from his Otaku community AND explain why he isn't up
> to snuff with other Otaku. Questions, comments appreciated, if you want, I
> can send the background that I have fleshed out if you want more Info.

As much as I find some of the a priori concepts behind the Otaku more
perposterous than say, magic in the world, President Dunkelzahn, or
Immortal Elves--on second thought, scratch that last one, they are part of
FASA canon, and can be a part of ShadowTk. Then again, the last time I
read about the Otaku was about two years ago, so maybe I am forgetting
that I hate them for one reason or another. The one thing that most
people object to is them being introduced to much fanfare, being used as
little uber-wunderkind to dance through stuff that would give mere-mortal
deckers nightmares, and character-wise being as one-dimensional as a
superstring. In other words, they are a pretty munchkin concept to begin
with, and are easily abused as such by authors who want to show off that
their character can do such-and-such, so there, pbltpblt. =P This tends to
make one at least loose the interest of everyone else. And further
attempts to go: "Look at me! Look at me! Isn't this character SO
Coooool!?!" really tend to torque people off. Another factor regarding
the Otaku is that they are supposed to be rare and mysterious, and have
many drawbacks to balance their savant abilities, which can be overlooked
by injudicious writers.

As has often been pointed out before, no points are awarded to the author
that can get their character in the most trouble ("Dude, I just snuck into
Ares and stole a nuke. Want one?"), have the most convoluted background
("I am the sexchanged niece, ne nephew of Damien Knight's uncle's
daughter's former love-slave"), nor be the most angst-ridden being in the
multiverse ("I was stapled to the wall with forks, my eyes propped open
with toothpicks, and forced to watch as they killed my family, one by one,
with belt-sanders, starting with the dog"). And often, attempts to do
such result in poor writing, in the sense that they seem to be just
occasions for the writer to show off, as opposed to any honest attempt at
storytelling. Which is not to say that unusual characters should be
avoided, nor high-level or deep plots be considered, nor characters be
given the chance to shine, it is just that the level of quality of writing
required to be sufficient to keep the interest of your readers has to be
at a similar level. And, it always begs the question: why use a
fusion-powered backhoe when a shovel would do nicely?

If you have a story that you eventually want to tell, even if it is just a
general point to make or a theme you want to explore in the writing that
you will be doing with the character, and more importantly _requires_ that
this character be an Otaku as opposed to any other kind of decker, then I
don't really have an objection. If you want to use an otaku character,
"just cause they're so freakin' powerful" then, yes, I do suppose I have
an objection.

--My two yen

Jeff
Message no. 4
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Character Questions
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 14:05:56 -0400
At 08:58 PM 4/27/98 -0700, you wrote:

>"Super deckers" is one thing. Otaku are another. I personally don't like
>the entire concept and I'd be happiest if they weren't introduced onto the
>list. I am, however, only one opinion here. ^_^ My view is that anything
>that can be done with an Otaku can be done just as well with an "ordinary"
>decker of the appropriate studliness.

Actually, I think I was the one on RN to first respond to Wraith.

I think we all want to avoid super-deckers. What I gather from his post
here is that he wants to depower the character, but retain the strangeness
that is inclusive to the Otaku.

So if this PC talks like an Otaku and behaves like an Otaku (i.e. not
carrying around anything bigger than a light pistol and barely knowing how
to use it, is pasty faced, doesn't like people, loves his machines, etc.
[hey, probably like some RL people on these lists!]), but isn't that
unstoppable terror we all fear, I think this would be fine.

How about posting a paragraph on this character, Wraith? That way the list
can get a much better idea of what you have in mind.

Erik J.


"Oh my God, they killed Dunkelzahn! You bastards!!!"
Message no. 5
From: Wraith <wraith@************.COM>
Subject: Re: Character Questions
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 17:05:47 -0500
-----Original Message-----
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
>I think we all want to avoid super-deckers. What I gather from his post
>here is that he wants to depower the character, but retain the strangeness
>that is inclusive to the Otaku.
>
>So if this PC talks like an Otaku and behaves like an Otaku (i.e. not
>carrying around anything bigger than a light pistol and barely knowing how
>to use it, is pasty faced, doesn't like people, loves his machines, etc.
>[hey, probably like some RL people on these lists!]), but isn't that
>unstoppable terror we all fear, I think this would be fine.
>


Exactly...no Harlequin equivalent Otaku, no Otaku that can take on Ghost Who
Walks in a street fight, etc..

Black Fire (Hey, so I read StarTrek too <G>) was born to a joygirl who felt
that having a child would be a new experience. Unfortunately for him the
novelty wore off all to soon. Left to his own devices, he probably would
have died except for the help of the people with whom his mother left him
when she conducted "business." They made sure he survived, although they
couldn't provide much else. Eventually some Otaku found him, but a strong
filial devotion prevented him from completely joining the Otaku community.
As he grew up he started to retreat to two places...one was the Otaku
community, the other was into late 20th Century music. Early experiences
with his mother's "employers" left their mark on him...whenever he begins to
feel overwhelmed in the real world he often retreats into music. When
threatened he will retreat from the real world, no matter what is happening,
and will find a spot to stand/sit and just listen to his music.

He isn't the greatest deckers for two reasons...first because he didn't live
in the Otaku community his entire life, unlike most Otaku. Also, when he
was in the process of becoming Otaku, during the period when he was left
alone, the community was wiped-out by CoT terrorists (if he's on TK, if not,
and I keep him as a PC for somewhere else, I might just make a break from
the community although that seems so Technobabel-ish...).

If you're wondering about his weapons/self-defense skills..right now he has
a very low firearms skill, so he's more likely to shoot himself in the foot
or something, rather than hitting what he thinks he's aiming at. Although
I'm thinking of maybe changing that to either Armed or Unarmed combat, since
that's what he's more likely to have picked up in his life.

once again, questions/comments?

Wraith
Message no. 6
From: "Mark L. Neidengard" <mneideng@****.CALTECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Character Questions
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 19:45:56 -0700
According to Wraith:
>Black Fire (Hey, so I read StarTrek too <G>) was born to a joygirl who felt
>that having a child would be a new experience. Unfortunately for him the
>novelty wore off all to soon.

I bet that interfered with business after a while....then again, there's
probably a market of people who prefer their companionship "with child" O_o

>Left to his own devices, he probably would
>have died except for the help of the people with whom his mother left him
>when she conducted "business." They made sure he survived, although they
>couldn't provide much else. Eventually some Otaku found him, but a strong
>filial devotion prevented him from completely joining the Otaku community.

Devotion to an absentee mother working in the "service industry"? That
sounds a bit implausible, but of course stranger things have happened.

>As he grew up he started to retreat to two places...one was the Otaku
>community, the other was into late 20th Century music. Early experiences
>with his mother's "employers" left their mark on him...whenever he begins to
>feel overwhelmed in the real world he often retreats into music. When
>threatened he will retreat from the real world, no matter what is happening,
>and will find a spot to stand/sit and just listen to his music.

Ostrich-mode can be really inconvient in a physical fight. Pretty severe
as a character flaw. =)

[munch]
>If you're wondering about his weapons/self-defense skills..right now he has
>a very low firearms skill, so he's more likely to shoot himself in the foot
>or something, rather than hitting what he thinks he's aiming at. Although
>I'm thinking of maybe changing that to either Armed or Unarmed combat, since
>that's what he's more likely to have picked up in his life.

Given his mother's occupation, likely employers, and tendencies to withdraw
when threatened, I'd expect that if anything he'd have some knife skill. A gun
can't be practiced just anywhere without attracting attention and is probably
a bit more violent than this character would prefer. From my standpoint,
of course. =)

Other than that, this is sounding pretty decent. ^_^
--
/!\/!ark /!\!eidengard, CS Grad, VLSI http://www.cacr.caltech.edu/~mneideng
"Fairy of sleep, controller of illusions" Operator/Jack-of-all-Trades, CACR
"Control the person for my own purpose." "Don't mess with the Dark
Elves!"
-Pirotess, _Record_of_Lodoss_War_ Shadowrunner and Anime Addict
Message no. 7
From: Wraith <wraith@************.COM>
Subject: Re: Character Questions
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 23:36:34 -0500
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark L. Neidengard <mneideng@****.CALTECH.EDU>
>

>
>[munch]
>>If you're wondering about his weapons/self-defense skills..right now he
has
>>a very low firearms skill, so he's more likely to shoot himself in the
foot
>>or something, rather than hitting what he thinks he's aiming at. Although
>>I'm thinking of maybe changing that to either Armed or Unarmed combat,
since
>>that's what he's more likely to have picked up in his life.
>
>Given his mother's occupation, likely employers, and tendencies to withdraw
>when threatened, I'd expect that if anything he'd have some knife skill. A
gun
>can't be practiced just anywhere without attracting attention and is
probably
>a bit more violent than this character would prefer. From my standpoint,
>of course. =)


Yeah, that's what I was thinking when I created this character on
paper..looked at it for a minute, decided he needed some sort of combat
skill, put down firearms, and then sat staring at it for a few more minutes
going..."Hmm, a knife would be so much better..."

Wraith

BTW-Lodoss War? Isn't that an Anime movie or something?
Message no. 8
From: "Mark L. Neidengard" <mneideng@****.CALTECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Character Questions
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 21:58:47 -0700
According to Wraith:
>BTW-Lodoss War? Isn't that an Anime movie or something?

It's a 13-part original video animation, and yes, it's anime, my major
obsession ^_^
--
/!\/!ark /!\!eidengard, CS Grad, VLSI http://www.cacr.caltech.edu/~mneideng
"Fairy of sleep, controller of illusions" Operator/Jack-of-all-Trades, CACR
"Control the person for my own purpose." "Don't mess with the Dark
Elves!"
-Pirotess, _Record_of_Lodoss_War_ Shadowrunner and Anime Addict
Message no. 9
From: Jeffrey Mach <mach@****.CALTECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Character Questions
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 22:10:01 -0700
On Tue, 28 Apr 1998, Wraith wrote:

> >[munch]
> >>If you're wondering about his weapons/self-defense skills..right now he
> has
> >>a very low firearms skill, so he's more likely to shoot himself in the
> foot
> >>or something, rather than hitting what he thinks he's aiming at. Although
> >>I'm thinking of maybe changing that to either Armed or Unarmed combat,
> since
> >>that's what he's more likely to have picked up in his life.
> >
> >Given his mother's occupation, likely employers, and tendencies to withdraw
> >when threatened, I'd expect that if anything he'd have some knife skill. A
> gun
> >can't be practiced just anywhere without attracting attention and is
> probably
> >a bit more violent than this character would prefer. From my standpoint,
> >of course. =)
>
>
> Yeah, that's what I was thinking when I created this character on
> paper..looked at it for a minute, decided he needed some sort of combat
> skill, put down firearms, and then sat staring at it for a few more minutes
> going..."Hmm, a knife would be so much better..."

Have to agree there. Especially if you are poor and grew up in the
sprawl, it may not be so hard to actually get ahold of a gun, but to be
any good at it would be a challenge, especially if you had better things
to spend your time and money on. Since this is a fiction list, I think
you have to be _much_ more conscerned about character concept than
character survivability in an RPG context. If you want him to survive a
fight, you probably should think about keeping him out of one in the first
place. I see someone writing about an Otaku who's an Army Ranger class
marksman, and I'll be laughing so hard I won't finish the post. Heck,
with their usual frailty, can he even use something more powerful than a
light pistol anyway? I mean, the kid might have scammed a hold-out
somewhere, but I would agree that he would be much more likely to know how
to use a knife, if that. Heck, my decker NewzJunkie has _no_ combat
skills whatsoever, as far as I'm concerned. He barely knows which end to
point where, and that only because he watches too much trid. Where would
he even pick up those kinds of skills? I couldn't see him learning it
anywhere, so as far as I am concerned, he doesn't have the skills. Pretty
straight forward. Now, a kid growing up on the rough side of town would
much more likely pick up on some way to defend themselves.

> BTW-Lodoss War? Isn't that an Anime movie or something?

Mark...do answer him off-line. A little infection here or there of Far
East culture is okay, especially since they have had some interesting
ideas regarding magic and dystopic futurism, but lets try to remember why
we're here.

--My two yen

Jeff
Message no. 10
From: Wraith <wraith@************.COM>
Subject: Re: Character Questions
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 18:53:55 -0500
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark L. Neidengard <mneideng@****.CALTECH.EDU>
>>Left to his own devices, he probably would
>>have died except for the help of the people with whom his mother left him
>>when she conducted "business." They made sure he survived, although
they
>>couldn't provide much else. Eventually some Otaku found him, but a strong
>>filial devotion prevented him from completely joining the Otaku community.
>
>Devotion to an absentee mother working in the "service industry"? That
>sounds a bit implausible, but of course stranger things have happened.
>


There are some people who need (perhaps need is too strong a word) family,
despite the way the family acts, etc.

>>As he grew up he started to retreat to two places...one was the Otaku
>>community, the other was into late 20th Century music. Early experiences
>>with his mother's "employers" left their mark on him...whenever he
begins
to
>>feel overwhelmed in the real world he often retreats into music. When
>>threatened he will retreat from the real world, no matter what is
happening,
>>and will find a spot to stand/sit and just listen to his music.
>
>Ostrich-mode can be really inconvient in a physical fight. Pretty severe
>as a character flaw. =)
>


Yup <G> Of course, hopefully he's intelligent enough to avoid the fight in
the first place...

Wraith
Message no. 11
From: Wraith <wraith@************.COM>
Subject: Re: Character Questions
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 16:15:58 -0500
Yes, no, maybe so?

Wraith
Message no. 12
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Character Questions
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 18:05:56 -0400
At 04:15 PM 4/30/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Yes, no, maybe so?

I assume your asking if your de-powered otaku PC is fine for TK.

Well, if you play him as described, you've got my vote. He doesn't seem to
be overpowering, which is our fear here.

Erik J.


"Forgive me FASA for I have sinned. It has been 6 days since I last played
Shadowrun and 15 days since I last bought a SRTCG booster pack."
Message no. 13
From: Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Character Questions
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 23:04:45 +0100
In article <00c901bd747d$2bfc2200$f61410d1@**********.starkreality.com>,
Wraith <wraith@************.COM> waffled & burbled about Character
Questions
>Yes, no, maybe so?

Sorry, if that's aimed at me, I've been a bit busy with private mail,
and not paying a lot of attention to things. I think in all honesty
that it depends on the others already involved in the matrix hunt
whether your character could get involved. I personally don't mind. If
the other have no objection I'll send you the "current condition" post
that the others have had, and we'll see if there's something your
character can contribute. Brian's crew including Mercury are already
hot on the trail. :)

If the comment is in regard to objections to the character being on
Shadowtk, none from me. :)


--
Avenger

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