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Message no. 1
From: NIGHTFOX <DJWA@******.UCC.NAU.EDU>
Subject: custody
Date: Sat, 7 Oct 1995 12:51:18 -0700
You know - Drake should serve papers to Olorin for "aiding and abbeting a
felon"

after all - Nexus is a wanted international Assasin.

Twould be amusing.

Dan
Message no. 2
From: "Thomas W. Craig" <Craigtw1@***.COM>
Subject: Re: custody
Date: Sat, 7 Oct 1995 17:51:52 -0400
Actually, Dan, Nexus is a goverment operative, when he committed any
assassinations, and the CIA really likes his work...:)
Tom
Message no. 3
From: ANGLISS BRIAN EDWARD <angliss@****.COLORADO.EDU>
Subject: Re: custody
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 1995 08:14:48 -0600
Uh, Tom?

There's not a prayer that's true. I've been here long enough to know.
And even if it is, the rescue of AJ would make him immediately suspect.
There is absolutely NO way that the CIA could cover that. And even if
all those assassinations were justified and permitted by the CIA, I find
it impossible to believe that they were permitted by the
companies/nations that controled the people who Nex killed.

This is where Drake's unusual position comes in. He has the authority to
inforce not only UCAS law, but also international law, French law, Irish
law, Canadian law, Ares Macrotech law, Maxim law, etc. Get the picture?
So even if the CIA sanctions Nex's assassinations, there's no way that
the people who he killed did. Therefore, in Drake's book, he is a wanted
felon in multiple locations and countries and also unfit to raise a
child. Besides, Nex hasn't been around since almost Arial's birth, so I
wonder what constitutes abandonment in UCAS law.... Now, this is just a
fact that Rin hasn't been around, but Drake would use it. He has reams
and reams of data and info on runners around the world. There probably
isn't a single runner anywhere that he doesn't have data on, compiled
from every source imaginable. Considering how active Nex has been
historically, even if the CIA comes and vouches for Nex, there's probably
not a prayer that Olorin's challenge will be heard for very long.

I can see it:

Your honor, I represent Arial's father and we request that Commander
Drake's custody claim be declared null and void.

Excuse me, your honor, but based on these three boxes of criminal
activities of the individual known as THE Nexus, who has been identified
to be Arial Borimer's father, we reject this proposal. He is an
international assassin, for starters.

This may never leave the courtrooom, your honor, but the CIA has informed
me that those sanctions were under thier auspices and therefore THE Nexus
is not subject under UCAS law to prosecution.

Your honor, that's true. But I've got this box of extradition requests
over here for those crimes along with the claims that the UCAS government
is harboring a criminal of extreme violence. But regardless, throwing
out those charges only takes out these 2 boxes. I still have the third
with over 300 misc. charges in it, including the jailbreak of Dr.
Alexander Jackson from the NY Superior Court building two years ago. What
shall we do about these....


I have exagerated on the sheer volume, I think..... But you get my point.


I suspect that the only reason Drake didn't get it thrown out was because
he wanted to meet the person who has NO dossier in his world of files,
just so he could have some idea of who Olorin is and how to deal with him
in the long run.

Brian
Message no. 4
From: Walter Stim <wstim%avma27@*************.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: Re: custody
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 1995 12:00:05 CDT
Brian wrote
>
>This is where Drake's unusual position comes in. He has the authority to
>inforce not only UCAS law, but also international law, French law, Irish
>law, Canadian law, Ares Macrotech law, Maxim law, etc. Get the picture?

Just out of curiosity, who died and made INTERPOL god :)?

Isn't INTERPOL the european equivilent of the FBI?

Does this mean that Drake can arrest anyone he can generate
(perhaps falsely) charges against? When did the one world
government come into being :)? What happened to jurisdiction?

Just asking about something that seems interesting?

Michael Stim
Message no. 5
From: "Mark L. Neidengard" <mneideng@****.CALTECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: custody
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 1995 10:11:48 -0700
According to Walter Stim:
>
> Brian wrote
> >
> >This is where Drake's unusual position comes in. He has the authority to
> >inforce not only UCAS law, but also international law, French law, Irish
> >law, Canadian law, Ares Macrotech law, Maxim law, etc. Get the picture?
>
> Just out of curiosity, who died and made INTERPOL god :)?
>
> Isn't INTERPOL the european equivilent of the FBI?
>
> Does this mean that Drake can arrest anyone he can generate
> (perhaps falsely) charges against? When did the one world
> government come into being :)? What happened to jurisdiction?
>
> Just asking about something that seems interesting?

Likewise....I can see the continued existence of Interpol after all the drek
that happened between now and Shadowrun times, but I'm rather curious as to
exactly why Interpol seems to be able to act with the freedom it does....why
would corporations put up with a force that can officially breach their
jurisdiction?
--
/!\/!ark /!\!eidengard, CS Major, VLSI. http://www.cacr.caltech.edu/~mneideng
"Fairy of sleep, controller of illusions" Operator/System Administrator, CACR
"Control the person for my own purpose." "Don't mess with the Dark
Elves!"
-Pirotess, _Record_of_Lodoss_War_ Shadowrunner and Anime Addict
Message no. 6
From: Gian-Paolo Musumeci <musumeci@***.LIS.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: custody
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 1995 13:28:17 -0500
What I want to know is if there's a Shadowrun equivalent of the Turing police
mentioned in Gibson's /Neuromancer/...

Hmmmm. I see Dark Angel having an interesting plot device all of a sudden :)\
Message no. 7
From: "Mark L. Neidengard" <mneideng@****.CALTECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: custody
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 1995 11:32:19 -0700
According to Gian-Paolo Musumeci:
>
> What I want to know is if there's a Shadowrun equivalent of the Turing police
> mentioned in Gibson's /Neuromancer/...
>
> Hmmmm. I see Dark Angel having an interesting plot device all of a sudden :)\

Heh. As for the Turing Police, I don't know of them existing in any official
writeup, but the Turing Police did in fact appear at least once in ShadowTK
(during the Monica Wars). Certainly, I think they would exist in any campaign
I'm running, though exactly how their jurisdiction would work might be a little
weird..
--
/!\/!ark /!\!eidengard, CS Major, VLSI. http://www.cacr.caltech.edu/~mneideng
"Fairy of sleep, controller of illusions" Operator/System Administrator, CACR
"Control the person for my own purpose." "Don't mess with the Dark
Elves!"
-Pirotess, _Record_of_Lodoss_War_ Shadowrunner and Anime Addict
Message no. 8
From: Gian-Paolo Musumeci <musumeci@***.LIS.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: custody
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 1995 13:32:48 -0500
I'll have to come up with something. :)

GP
Message no. 9
From: "Thomas W. Craig" <Craigtw1@***.COM>
Subject: Re: custody
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 1995 15:43:50 -0400
Ah, but Brian, Drake will find out that due to an unfortunate accident, Sean
Cullen Og O'Brecon is a coma in a private clinic; hence the reason for the
challenge. Olorin won't bring up anything about the CIA, I like throwing
curveballs once in a while, and this one got hit for a double...:) Let's
talk about this privately, ok?
Tom
Message no. 10
From: ANGLISS BRIAN EDWARD <angliss@****.COLORADO.EDU>
Subject: Re: custody
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 1995 19:54:56 -0600
Well, I had always figured that INterPol was mor international than just
Europe, and that this had gone furhter in the SR universe. However, as
much of the stuff I mentioned was recently developed, it is hardly set in
stone.

What I need for Drake: He and his teams have to be able to get anywhere
in the world with impunity, without having to ask the requisite
governments permission every time they want to cross a border. He also
needs the ability to arrest anyone, anywhere, for whatever crime he is
pursuing the runner for.

What Drake doesn't need: He doesn't need access to to the corps.
Actually, after thinking about it, InterPol is more likely a
national/international orginization and the corps would natually find
that a problem, so they wouldn't be willing to do much with InterPol
besides asking them for help occassionaly when they need/want a runner
nailed, assuming they can't do it themselves. The other thing I don't
need is the ability to remove an arrested crimininal(runner) from the
country's territory. Taht would be fraggin with jurisdiction. So having
InterPol be able to arrest and hold temporarily the individuals in
question would be normal, but taking them out of the country in which
they were caught couldn't be done wihtout the country's consent.

Hmmmm... what else....

Brian
Message no. 11
From: Gian-Paolo Musumeci <musumeci@***.LIS.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: custody
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 1995 21:08:50 -0500
Does Interpol get unlimited use of lethal force?

GP
Message no. 12
From: "Thomas W. Craig" <Craigtw1@***.COM>
Subject: Re: custody
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 1995 23:21:01 -0400
Brian,
You are correct on the taking a criminal from one country to another...it
would require a Treaty of Extradition.
Tom
Message no. 13
From: NIGHTFOX <DJWA@******.UCC.NAU.EDU>
Subject: Re: custody
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 1995 21:21:00 -0700
>Actually, Dan, Nexus is a goverment operative, when he committed any
>assassinations, and the CIA really likes his work...:)
>Tom

CIA - huh? never remember that being mentioned - I remember that Buzz was with
them - but not Nex

As far As I remember - Nex was Mafia

of course - this is all from 3 years ago


Nightfox
Message no. 14
From: NIGHTFOX <DJWA@******.UCC.NAU.EDU>
Subject: Re: custody
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 1995 21:28:00 -0700
>What I need for Drake: He and his teams have to be able to get anywhere
>in the world with impunity, without having to ask the requisite
>governments permission every time they want to cross a border. He also
>needs the ability to arrest anyone, anywhere, for whatever crime he is
>pursuing the runner for.

as long as they have a rep from the country they are in with them - its all
probably pretty legal. They can arest the person, then ask for extradition.

Interpol would mostly likely be involved with the European and european descent
nations

Not many african, probably not too many NAN, definately not Aztlan or Japan.

UCAS and CAS would keep with the USA's concept of helping the European nations
catch criminals


>Hmmmm... what else....


they would not be given the right to shoot first and ask questions later. They
would definately have a lot more red tape to go through also.

the wheels of justice move slowly



Nightfox
Message no. 15
From: "Thomas W. Craig" <Craigtw1@***.COM>
Subject: Re: custody
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 00:32:44 -0400
Go back and check the Anna logs...Nex said something about teaching the
citizens CIA tactics.
Tom
Message no. 16
From: ANGLISS BRIAN EDWARD <angliss@****.COLORADO.EDU>
Subject: Re: custody
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 1995 22:55:03 -0600
Hmmmm....

Well, I figure that the rules of engagement for Interpol operatives would
be per normal cops, under most circumstances. However, as Special Branch
agents are pursuing the more dangerous element of the underworld(ie
runners), I figure they'd have a little more latitude.

Specifically, as follows:

If an agent is being shot at, lethal force is fine.

If an agent is going against a runner with a record of murder, then
lethal force could be considered.

Terrorists, mass murderers, and assassins are sniper targets(shoot first,
frag the questions).

Other unusual circumstances require the permission to use lethal force
from Drake, if there's not enough time to consult higher authority, and
Drake's boss if there is time.(basically, terrorists etc would fall in
this category, but they're cleared all the time)

If the "shoot first, ask questions later" option is used, assult/murder
charges are in line for the agent, not a commendation, except under
special circumstances.


Now, the idea that Drake can declare almost anything to be a "special
circumstance" is accurate, but I figure he has some really severe
guidelines that he has to follow before he can do so. If he declares
something a special circumstance without it being one, he's the one up on
the charges of murder/assult, not the poor agent who did the shooting.
That alone would keep him from abusing that particular power.

Some examples of special circumstances: Dante's hideout, when Drake knew
that there was going to be a "mass murderer" in the form of Hilliard's
decker(I can't remember her name, though....) who was thought to have
killed several thousand people in Redmond by releasing Gamma Anthrax into
the air.

And then there's Doomsday: Well, Drake would probably shoot to slow him
down so he could take him in without getting his back broken this time.
And that would probably be considered ok too. This one could be
borderline, though.

Deckers, not much reason for lethal force unless they're like Dante was.

Diana: Really nasty, but he'd not be cleared to snipe her even though
she dropped the building on Drake's head.

AJ: Probably could use lethal force, due to AJ's prior record and
historical ability to survive most damage.

Those are some examples. The big thing to remember regarding lethal
force is that he and his crews are cops. They get paid not to kill, but
to bring in people to stand trial. So they're likely to do everything
they can to keep the targeted runner alive.

Brian
Message no. 17
From: Charles McKenzie <kilroy@**.WISC.EDU>
Subject: Re: custody
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 18:46:11 -0500
On Sun, 8 Oct 1995, Mark L. Neidengard wrote:
> Likewise....I can see the continued existence of Interpol after all the drek
> that happened between now and Shadowrun times, but I'm rather curious as to
> exactly why Interpol seems to be able to act with the freedom it does....why
> would corporations put up with a force that can officially breach their
> jurisdiction?
> --
Perhaps Interpol is the enforcement arm of the Concord of Zurich Orbital?

Kilroy


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Message no. 18
From: Evan Hughes <ehughes@****.CARLETON.CA>
Subject: Re: custody
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 19:58:54 EDT
ANGLISS BRIAN EDWARD writes:
>
> Well, I had always figured that INterPol was mor international than just
> Europe, and that this had gone furhter in the SR universe. However, as
> much of the stuff I mentioned was recently developed, it is hardly set in
> stone.


Howabout InterPol being some how related to the Corporate Court? Not
in any law-making/breaking way, but as a "subsidiary" organization. IP
would have been set up by the CC as a device to get in the way of
ShadowRunners (obviously, a ShadowRunner breaks corporate law). In an
attempt by the CC to get it accepted by the sovereign nations (for the
sake of jurisdiction and such), they decided to make InterPol able to
enforce any and every set of laws.

This would mean that there would probably be states (the Tirs, and
Hawaii spring immediately to mind) where IP would have no jurisdiction.


And on that note, countries and governments should have some sort of
fiat over IP, so as to stop cultural differences from getting in the
way. (I'm sure some Islamic and Christian fundimentalists would go
nuts over the use of condoms and abortion and the such in UCAS... =)


-- Evan [Righteous and Dana]

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