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Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: "Freddy Frypp no more" <JAMES-CUENO@*********.edu>
Subject: Re: Don't try this at home, Kidz...
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 09:33:57 CST
> *****NOT TO: InterPol, Aztlan, Aztechnology

Yep, yep, gonna hafta add those lines to my mail filter that say "US
Citizen, UPS employee, USACE student volunteer, Augustana student" so
the right stuff gets deleted the next time someone in FWS
wants to ship something from Mexico FedEx and I'd be so hurt to find
out what....

Question: how can someone stop everyone in a whole country, everyone
connected to a Big-8 corp (including deniable assets, every
bleedin' subsidiary, weasels whose only job is to look for stuff
like that and don't forget corpsec itself) and the bleeding
international police from getting a post made to a near-public board?
Gee, I don't remember anyone asking me if I was a US citizen when I
got this account. What do you do when anyone with a cheapo deck and
a phone line (hell, even some gaddam entertainment centers) can get
into the Matrix sans Internet provider / university / gracious
employer?

Screw it. I've had it.
Message no. 2
From: mbroadwa@*******.glenayre.com (Mike Broadwater)
Subject: Re: Don't try this at home, Kidz...
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 10:02:22 -0500
I've noticed that several people have been complaining because in the
interest of a story, some posts have had to be made that perhaps don't fit
with their concept of how things should be posted to this board. They have
a point. Several of the messages wouldn't make sense if this was the real
ShadowLand board. Transcripts of phone conversations from Maxim or
Interpol, not to's to whole countrys and corps., any report or data record
that would incriminate, etc. But the important thing to note is that this
isn't the real shadowland, and that the reason this mailing list exsists is
so that people can have fun writing interactive fiction. Some suspension of
disbelief is involved, because otherwise, the only posts on this board would
be "well, we did this here and there, but I'm not saying any more because
there are cops and corps who could read this, even though this is _the_
shadowland and it's a secure shadowrunner board. If you want to talk about
it meet me somewhere, and if I know and like you, I'll tell you about it."
Apparently, some people on this board want it to be neutered down to what
"real" shadowrunners would post. Well, what the hell fun is that? So there
are posts from corps, its a freaking story, and it makes things a little
more interesting if you can see whats going on from the other side. There
are a lot of things on here I don't agree with. Freddy Frypp was in charge
of a corp, but he still messed in the shadows, why? did he like being
stupid and risking everything? AJ has enough money to go hide somewhere and
never be bothered, why is he still around? Interpol doesn't have a tenth
the jurisdiction in the real world as it does on this list, but they're
still pain in the asses, why? J&G and R&D would be taken down for various
reasons by their controllers, but there not, why? Same answer to every
question: Cause it's fucking fun to play them! Screw what would really
happen, if we all played that way, almost no one would post. In my SR game,
Blade uses the matrix for some mail and to get the occasional piece of info.
If he needed to talk to someone (like Lynch for example) he would phone him.
More secure and more immediate, but we're here all posting comments because
it makes a good story, and if thats not why you're here, maybe you should
leave. I'd prefer that everyone could wade their way through what they
don't like (I'm sick of religious fanatics, El Chango, Obtulio Varera, and
the new characters who show up and suddenly think they're the best thing
since sliced bread, and feel they have to tell everyone that) and just go on
enjoying things, but some times it just not worth it. I'm staying, to hell
with anyone who isn't.

Mike Broadwater
http://www.olemiss.edu/~neon
"You only need two things in this world. WD40 to make things go, and duct
tape to make them stop."
Message no. 3
From: winter@******.med.harvard.edu
Subject: Re: Don't try this at home, Kidz...
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 11:25:36 -0400
Hey Mike, nice soapbox.... (scattered aplause) @=->K


--winter
Message no. 4
From: Evan Hughes <ehughes@****.carleton.ca>
Subject: Re: Don't try this at home, Kidz...
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 96 15:59:33 EDT
Mike Broadwater writes:
> still pain in the asses, why? J&G and R&D would be taken down for various
> reasons by their controllers, but there not, why? Same answer to every
> question: Cause it's fucking fun to play them! Screw what would really

Damn. Someone knows... =)

(Although R&D might be a slightly different story... I'm still
pondering...)


Evan Hughes | Webmaster
Honours Computer Science | Carleton Computer Science Society
http://chat.carleton.ca/~ehughes | http://omega.scs.carleton.ca/~ccss
.. code code code eat code code code code code sleep code code code code ..
Message no. 5
From: Evan Hughes <ehughes@****.carleton.ca>
Subject: Re: Don't try this at home, Kidz...
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 96 16:01:41 EDT
Freddy Frypp no more writes:
> Question: how can someone stop everyone in a whole country, everyone
> connected to a Big-8 corp (including deniable assets, every
> bleedin' subsidiary, weasels whose only job is to look for stuff

This is very true. Whynot change the "NOT TO" to something like
"*****PRIVATE TO: MyAssociates.macro" or even just post it to a friend and
let us all sort of read over their shoulder?

This would enhance the "beleivability" aspect... =)


Evan Hughes | Webmaster
Honours Computer Science | Carleton Computer Science Society
http://chat.carleton.ca/~ehughes | http://omega.scs.carleton.ca/~ccss
.. code code code eat code code code code code sleep code code code code ..
Message no. 6
From: NIGHTFOX <DJWA@******.UCC.NAU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Don't try this at home, Kidz...
Date: Tue, 09 Apr 1996 15:01:46 -0700 (MST)
>so that people can have fun writing interactive fiction. Some suspension of
>disbelief is involved, because otherwise, the only posts on this board would
>be "well, we did this here and there, but I'm not saying any more because
>there are cops and corps who could read this, even though this is _the_
>shadowland and it's a secure shadowrunner board.

Thats for sure, I never post half the stuff I dream up for CRUSH and Spirit and
the gang. They are rather paranoid and closed mouth.

>Apparently, some people on this board want it to be neutered down to what
>"real" shadowrunners would post. Well, what the hell fun is that?

not very, Man do I miss the parties :(
Of course - I threw about 4 of them :)

>question: Cause it's fucking fun to play them! Screw what would really

Toasters who only want you to make toast.

>I'd prefer that everyone could wade their way through what they
>don't like (I'm sick of religious fanatics, El Chango, Obtulio Varera, and
>the new characters who show up and suddenly think they're the best thing
>since sliced bread, and feel they have to tell everyone that) and just go on
>enjoying things, but some times it just not worth it. I'm staying, to hell
>with anyone who isn't.

Actually - I like Sword of Dog - he's been a good enemy of mine for a while now.
It gives me a non Maxim plot to put my most active characters into.

As for the attitudes - they are very similar to those voiced in the sourcebooks
by people that the sysop often deletes. (Sera-Sera in Awakenings)


Nightfox
Message no. 7
From: MAGECK <YBKB@*****.iup.edu>
Subject: Re: Don't try this at home, Kidz...
Date: Tue, 09 Apr 1996 18:26:04 -0400 (EDT)
Yeah this is a non maxim post, and I am involved in as well. wow that is just
amazing. We need to have some more parties, by the way what ever happened at
the last halloween party, since I got signed off before it went out?
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Message no. 8
From: shadowtk@********.demon.co.uk (Paul J. Adam)
Subject: Re: Don't try this at home, Kidz...
Date: Tue, 09 Apr 1996 17:11:49 GMT
In message <12A511321C9@*********.edu> "Freddy Frypp no more" writes:
> > *****NOT TO: InterPol, Aztlan, Aztechnology
>
> Yep, yep, gonna hafta add those lines to my mail filter that say "US
> Citizen, UPS employee, USACE student volunteer, Augustana student" so
> the right stuff gets deleted the next time someone in FWS
> wants to ship something from Mexico FedEx and I'd be so hurt to find
> out what....

> Question: how can someone stop everyone in a whole country, everyone
> connected to a Big-8 corp (including deniable assets, every
> bleedin' subsidiary, weasels whose only job is to look for stuff
> like that and don't forget corpsec itself) and the bleeding
> international police from getting a post made to a near-public board?

You can't. But let's see what ShadowTK would look like if we follow this
through...

- begin the plot -
>>>>>[Meet me at Location Four, usual time. Biz.]<<<<<
-One
>>>>>[Yep. I'll be there.]<<<<<
-Two
>>>>>[Two, you okay? You're late.]<<<<<
-One
>>>>>[Two?]<<<<<
-One
>>>>>[Calm, bud, I'm here. Gotta meet.]<<<<<
-One
>>>>>[Go well?]<<<<<
-One
>>>>>[Not here, the Matrix has ears. Usual place, usual
time.]<<<<<
-Two
>>>>>[Any comeback?]<<<<<
-One
>>>>>[Can't say. Tell you when I see you.]<<<<<
-Two
- end the plot -

Kind of dull, perhaps? Realistic, sure, but interesting neither to read
nor to write.

And would, firstly, a mercenary and (worse) a shaman do most of their
communication via Shadowland for real? Or, seriously, post video footage
of their exploits? Of course not. But, again, this is telling the story
of what's happening.

If you want a "OTP, HAND DELIVER ONLY" header to show it was coded hard-copy
written with a one-time-pad and courier-delivered, fine, I'll do that. It's
an extra line to type every time, changes very little, and still fulfils
the purpose of the "Meanwhile..." caption you used to get in silent movies.

Look, if you don't like it, try suggesting something else, okay? I'm not
interested in antagonising anyone, if there's a solution I'm open to it,
but come up with a better idea than "only send the messages that would
realistically be sent if we were really thinking hard about the reality
of this sort of system" because that kills a lot of storytelling styles dead.

--
Paul J. Adam
Message no. 9
From: mneideng@****.caltech.edu (Mark L. Neidengard)
Subject: Re: Don't try this at home, Kidz...
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 16:04:22 -0700 (PDT)
According to Paul J. Adam:
>And would, firstly, a mercenary and (worse) a shaman do most of their
>communication via Shadowland for real? Or, seriously, post video footage
>of their exploits? Of course not. But, again, this is telling the story
>of what's happening.

Well, one part of the challenge of this forum for me is figuring out not only
what story to tell, but how to get it posted to the list in such a way that
at least the other players will see it, if not necessarily all the other
characters. Not everyone may wish to grapple with this challenge, however...

>If you want a "OTP, HAND DELIVER ONLY" header to show it was coded hard-copy

>written with a one-time-pad and courier-delivered, fine, I'll do that. It's
>an extra line to type every time, changes very little, and still fulfils
>the purpose of the "Meanwhile..." caption you used to get in silent movies.

Well, I'm operating under the tacit assumption that Shadowland is a generalized
forum for exchange of messages of all types, and that its physical facilities
can be used for routing potentially even realtime traffic to and from the
appropriate sources (witness that little episode with Alex). I figure that
what each ShadowTK message is is just that: a message. Its contents could
be just about anything.

>Look, if you don't like it, try suggesting something else, okay? I'm not
>interested in antagonising anyone, if there's a solution I'm open to it,
>but come up with a better idea than "only send the messages that would
>realistically be sent if we were really thinking hard about the reality
>of this sort of system" because that kills a lot of storytelling styles dead.

Well, I personally don't see a problem with the exclusion lines, but I can
also see why people wouldn't want to use them. Does anyone have a better
alternative?
--
/!\/!ark /!\!eidengard, CS Major, VLSI. http://www.cacr.caltech.edu/~mneideng
"Fairy of sleep, controller of illusions" Operator/Jack-of-all-Trades, CACR
"Control the person for my own purpose." "Don't mess with the Dark
Elves!"
-Pirotess, _Record_of_Lodoss_War_ Shadowrunner and Anime Addict
Message no. 10
From: Umfleet <gumfleet@***.edu>
Subject: Re: Don't try this at home, Kidz...
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 19:05:11 -0400 (EDT)
Here, here Mike. I agree fully, hey in real Shadowland El what's his name
would have had guns stuffed in every open hole once he claimed to be ruler
of Seattle. I had a guy try that once in my Sland group, not a pretty
thing when the hole town fraggs you.
Gregg
Message no. 11
From: mneideng@****.caltech.edu (Mark L. Neidengard)
Subject: Re: Don't try this at home, Kidz...
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 16:08:24 -0700 (PDT)
According to Umfleet:
>Here, here Mike. I agree fully, hey in real Shadowland El what's his name
>would have had guns stuffed in every open hole once he claimed to be ruler
>of Seattle. I had a guy try that once in my Sland group, not a pretty
>thing when the hole town fraggs you.

Heh heh...well, I'm treating that guy on what I've come to call the "J&G"
principle: as long as all he does is talk, I don't worry about it. =) If he
or his associates get in the way of any of my characters, well, conflict can
begin. I do find it amusing though how many people seem eager to tempt fate
without knowing who they're up against. =)
--
/!\/!ark /!\!eidengard, CS Major, VLSI. http://www.cacr.caltech.edu/~mneideng
"Fairy of sleep, controller of illusions" Operator/Jack-of-all-Trades, CACR
"Control the person for my own purpose." "Don't mess with the Dark
Elves!"
-Pirotess, _Record_of_Lodoss_War_ Shadowrunner and Anime Addict
Message no. 12
From: Umfleet <gumfleet@***.edu>
Subject: Re: Don't try this at home, Kidz...
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 19:43:06 -0400 (EDT)
Ah Mark, such is the folly of fools in denial. I agree if he's all talk
and no walk (which I think he is) he's fine, if not then let him play with
fate.
Gregg
Message no. 13
From: Evan Hughes <ehughes@****.carleton.ca>
Subject: Re: Don't try this at home, Kidz...
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 96 23:53:14 EDT
Mark L. Neidengard writes:
> Well, I personally don't see a problem with the exclusion lines, but I can
> also see why people wouldn't want to use them. Does anyone have a better
> alternative?

Just include everyone you want to see that post. If you want it to be
everyone, make that obvious with the alias name. If you want to include
almost everyone, but exclude a few people, mix and match (ie, PRIVATE TO
follwed by a NOT TO...)


Evan Hughes | Webmaster
Honours Computer Science | Carleton Computer Science Society
http://chat.carleton.ca/~ehughes | http://omega.scs.carleton.ca/~ccss
.. code code code eat code code code code code sleep code code code code ..
Message no. 14
From: Evan Hughes <ehughes@****.carleton.ca>
Subject: Re: Don't try this at home, Kidz...
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 96 23:56:13 EDT
Mark L. Neidengard writes:
> Heh heh...well, I'm treating that guy on what I've come to call the
"J&G"

I feel special. =)

> principle: as long as all he does is talk, I don't worry about it. =) If he
[...]
> without knowing who they're up against. =)

*grin* I've actually been trying to "prove" J&G (they have simmered down
slightly) for the past little while, but there's never the
opportunity/time (gee, sound familiar? =). Hopefully though, I will have a
chance sometime in the near future. (And no, I don't plan to have them as
good as they say they are, but they do have their own "style", and I want
this to show through... =)

Evan Hughes | Webmaster
Honours Computer Science | Carleton Computer Science Society
http://chat.carleton.ca/~ehughes | http://omega.scs.carleton.ca/~ccss
.. code code code eat code code code code code sleep code code code code ..
Message no. 15
From: MooK <Robertr%tfn-ny.com@*********.tfn-ny.com>
Subject: Re: Don't try this at home, Kidz...
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 09:31:50 -0400
Mike Broadwater wrote:
>
> I've noticed that several people have been complaining because in the
> interest of a story, some posts have had to be made that perhaps don't
> fit with their concept of how things should be posted to this board.

Not for nothing mike and just about everyone else here that seems to think that straying
form the format and the list concept is "O.K in the interest of the plot"...
"doin' it
to further the plot".. (insert old-fogy cackle) yup back in my day we used this thing

called ****encrypted*** to give everyone a look behind the scenes... but with blinders.
You gave them a taste of what went on behind the scenes not the whole main course. I'm
scared to see the kind of games some of you guys run. I bet most of your player
characters retire at the ripe old age of 45-50 right?

My major beef with the original msg. was this... the real world is really boring and yup
you need a little of the unbelivable to make this place worthwhile. But if you get too
unrealistic and we get the ever hated D&D effect, then it doesn't mean anything
anymore.
In the Msg sent to the board there were alot of better and diferent ways to convey the
information to everyone on the list other that the image of direct military traffic.
I understand the point of letting everyone take a peek at what the other side is doing.
and I apreciate it, but the are rules and statues in place that must be followed. if
they are not we loose everything we've tryed for so long to hold on to. and we all
become D&Der's no doubt about it.

> They have a point. >>>>>> All that other >>tihs<< you
said was uncalled for<<<<
>
> with anyone who isn't.

if you don't like the above statement fine with me, put it up on PLOT-D and lets discuss
it and if you think I'm nuts and want to commence to flame, well that's fine too but
bring it to personal mail where we can really get dirty. you know what I'm saying?

MOOKDOG
Message no. 16
From: Evan Hughes <ehughes@****.carleton.ca>
Subject: Re: Don't try this at home, Kidz...
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 96 9:37:41 EDT
MooK writes:
> your characters retire at the ripe old age of 45-50 right?

Actually, thats when most of them start running... =)



Evan Hughes | Webmaster
Honours Computer Science | Carleton Computer Science Society
http://chat.carleton.ca/~ehughes | http://omega.scs.carleton.ca/~ccss
.. code code code eat code code code code code sleep code code code code ..
Message no. 17
From: mbroadwa@*******.glenayre.com (Mike Broadwater)
Subject: Re: Don't try this at home, Kidz...
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 08:52:40 -0500
[big snip of over reacting BS]

Wow, we're just a little defensive today, aren't we MOOKDOG? When I said
"this board" perhaps I should have clarified. What I meant was the supposed
real shadowland board that ShadowTK attempts to emulate. Which it doesn't
do. There are corp types, gov't types, Interpol on occasion, a dragon, some
free spirits, a kid learning to be a shaman, magic types and street muscles
who couldn't deck there way out of a paper bag, much less into SLand, but
they're all here. If I read the purpose of this mailing list correctly (and
I very well may be wrong) it sounds like it's supposed to be a place for
interactive fiction, not a mock up of what the SLand board would be like in
the Shadowrun world. From the posts everyone makes, thats the way it sure
seems. Some things need to be screwed with so that things can be seen to
help the story. If your not here to write interactive fiction, then maybe
you shouldn't be here.

Mike Broadwater
http://www.olemiss.edu/~neon
"You only need two things in this world. WD40 to make things go, and duct
tape to make them stop."
Message no. 18
From: shadowtk@********.demon.co.uk (Paul J. Adam)
Subject: Re: Don't try this at home, Kidz...
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 17:31:17 GMT
In message <316BB846.705A@******.com> MooK writes:
> Not for nothing mike and just about everyone else here that seems to think
> that straying form the format and the list concept is "O.K in the interest of
> the plot"... "doin' it to further the plot".. (insert old-fogy cackle)


It's a Shadowrun interactive fiction board, MooK.

> My major beef with the original msg. was this... the real world is really
> boring and yup you need a little of the unbelivable to make this place
> worthwhile. But if you get too unrealistic and we get the ever hated D&D
> effect, then it doesn't mean anything anymore.

Ever-hated D&D effect? Hey, MooK, read some of the stuff in the Denver books
about the way the jammers work. Various militaries put AWACS up over the
Rockies, SAMs in the canyons, you name it. It's kind of... military. So
I wrote something appropriate. No swords, no clerics, no dungeons, no dragons.

> In the Msg sent to the board there were alot of better and diferent ways to
> convey the information to everyone on the list other that the image of direct
> military traffic.

One - Name three. Two - I *like* military traffic. Three - I put it there
for a reason other than that I like it, I put it there because the leak of
it was part of the plot and deliberate.

> if you don't like the above statement fine with me, put it up on PLOT-D and
lets discuss
> it and if you think I'm nuts and want to commence to flame, well that's fine
too but
> bring it to personal mail where we can really get dirty. you know what I'm saying?

You want a flame? Sorry. All you get is me asking you to sort your line lengths
out. Some of us use eighty-column ASCII mailers.

--
Paul J. Adam
Message no. 19
From: Evan Hughes <ehughes@****.carleton.ca>
Subject: Re: Don't try this at home, Kidz...
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 96 18:52:51 EDT
Paul J. Adam writes:
> One - Name three. Two - I *like* military traffic. Three - I put it there
> for a reason other than that I like it, I put it there because the leak of
> it was part of the plot and deliberate.

I hate it when people start acting like their characters, but I shall
have to say that well written milgabble sounds REALLY good. Definite
"style points"... =)


Evan Hughes | Webmaster
Honours Computer Science | Carleton Computer Science Society
http://chat.carleton.ca/~ehughes | http://omega.scs.carleton.ca/~ccss
.. code code code eat code code code code code sleep code code code code ..

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