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Message no. 1
From: Cutter cutterspawn@****.com
Subject: formatting
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 22:14:02 -0500
dang...sorry folks.

My formatting is all over the place in my posts tonight......damn tab
and reply keys...

I'll work on fixin' it up........

Cutter
Message no. 2
From: James Dening james@************.force9.co.uk
Subject: formatting
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 11:00:53 -0000
Just as a quick corollary on this.....

This is exactly the *right* way to apologise/explain/grovel for a misformatted
post on shadowtk. i.e. on plotd, not on the in-character list.

<pats Cutter on the back>

James.
NANGDE

On Tuesday, March 07, 2000 3:14 AM, Cutter [SMTP:cutterspawn@****.com] wrote:
> dang...sorry folks.
>
> My formatting is all over the place in my posts tonight......damn tab
> and reply keys...
>
> I'll work on fixin' it up........
Message no. 3
From: Michael Dolmer cutterspawn@*******.com
Subject: formatting
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 05:52:02 PST
*blushblush*

*taps head*

Yup...this thing ain't just used for hangin' hats.

')

I can't figure out the tabbing problem yet, but the other drek is cuz I was
using a forward methinks. Easily fixed.

'nuther quick question. Our hero (should he survive) might be in a position
to take down or incriminate an unscrupulous corp (I made up the Trask
Enterprises so I don't mess up anyone's storyline)....but as a side-effect
he might be incriminating a geurilla (sp?) type government currently at war
with another faction. Anyone have any suggestions as to what small
war/government I might be able to use? Or should I just make one up?

Cutter/Asmodeon


>
>This is exactly the *right* way to apologise/explain/grovel for a
>misformatted
>post on shadowtk. i.e. on plotd, not on the in-character list.
>
><pats Cutter on the back>
>
>James.
>NANGDE
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Message no. 4
From: Jaimie Nicholson <jaimie.nicholson@********.OTAGO.AC.NZ>
Subject: Re: Formatting...
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 10:08:55 +1200
There has arisen a discussion between one of the Dread Executors and
myslef, regarding a message not unlike the following:

*****PRIVATE: Ice
>>>>>[I've worked for RJohnson before.

+++++Include file myco.txt
[Being a description of Squatter's attack on the matrix based operating
system of the fungal protein tanks at MycoProducts corporation.]

etc. etc....]<<<<<
-- Squatter <12:34:56/05-06-58>

Said dread executor said...

>> >You don't actually need the extra open bracket after your file
>> >includes. It doesnt screw up the reading, but the editor might be a little
>> >happier with you if you didnt add it in.

I replied:

>> I need something there to explain what the file is though, and the brackets
>> seem like they're sort of necessary to distinguish the file from the text
>> part of the message.
>>
>> +++++Include file myco.txt
>> Being a description of Squatter's attack on the matrix based operating
>> system of the fungal protein tanks at MycoProducts corporation.
>>
>> If there are no brackets there, it seems like the "Being...
corporation"
>> lines are part of the text of the message. It just doesn't feel right
>> somehow.

He suggested that I throw it on to plotd and see what everyone else thinks.
So I did. Which looks better/makes more sense?

+++++Include file myco.txt
[Being a description of Squatter's attack on the matrix based operating
system of the fungal protein tanks at MycoProducts corporation.]

or

+++++Include file myco.txt
Being a description of Squatter's attack on the matrix based operating
system of the fungal protein tanks at MycoProducts corporation.

PLAYTHING OF A CRUEL GOD
JAIMIE NICHOLSON
Message no. 5
From: "Mark L. Neidengard" <mneideng@****.CALTECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Formatting...
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 15:56:10 -0700
According to Jaimie Nicholson:
>
>He suggested that I throw it on to plotd and see what everyone else thinks.
>So I did. Which looks better/makes more sense?
>
>+++++Include file myco.txt
>[Being a description of Squatter's attack on the matrix based operating
>system of the fungal protein tanks at MycoProducts corporation.]
>
>or
>
>+++++Include file myco.txt
>Being a description of Squatter's attack on the matrix based operating
>system of the fungal protein tanks at MycoProducts corporation.

I greatly favor the former.
--
/!\/!ark /!\!eidengard, CS Major, VLSI. http://www.cacr.caltech.edu/~mneideng
"Fairy of sleep, controller of illusions" Operator/Jack-of-all-Trades, CACR
"Control the person for my own purpose." "Don't mess with the Dark
Elves!"
-Pirotess, _Record_of_Lodoss_War_ Shadowrunner and Anime Addict
Message no. 6
From: Justin Fang <justinf@****.CALTECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Formatting...
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 17:27:45 -0700
Jaimie Nicholson wrote:

>He suggested that I throw it on to plotd and see what everyone else thinks.
>So I did. Which looks better/makes more sense?

I like the first one better.

>+++++Include file myco.txt
>[Being a description of Squatter's attack on the matrix based operating
>system of the fungal protein tanks at MycoProducts corporation.]

>+++++Include file myco.txt
>Being a description of Squatter's attack on the matrix based operating
>system of the fungal protein tanks at MycoProducts corporation.


--
Justin Fang (justinf@****.caltech.edu)
This space intentionally left blank.
Message no. 7
From: "B. Legangneux" <b.legangneux@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Formatting...
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 09:06:42 +0200
In that case, I think I would have use

+++++ Begin include
+++++ End include


but that was before I've seen this new way of describing :
+++++ include
[...]

In fact, I think the latter is a good way to describe what may be
contained in a document.

Ben.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
b.legangneux@**********.com
Message no. 8
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Formatting...
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 08:37:35 +0100
|
|In that case, I think I would have use
|
| +++++ Begin include
| +++++ End include

The way I always did it was.....

+++++ Begin Download:whatever.mov
+++++ Download Complete
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 9
From: "B. Legangneux" <b.legangneux@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Formatting...
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 14:07:58 +0200
I think in fact that the most important think in formatting is that it
must help everybody to understand. What Jaimie had done seems fairly
good for since it emphasizes the fact that the text was a comment for
his included file.

Moreover, for all the keep-the-SR-style's fans, he used the famous
"+++++ include". Personnally, I see no point in arguing which one is
better since everything is clear and well done.

Ben.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
b.legangneux@**********.com
Message no. 10
From: Jaimie Nicholson <jaimie.nicholson@********.OTAGO.AC.NZ>
Subject: Re: Formatting...
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 10:23:15 +1200
So, to sum up, no-one really cares, we can all do the +++++includes however
we like. Is that accurate?

PLAYTHING OF A CRUEL GOD
JAIMIE NICHOLSON
Message no. 11
From: Mike Goldberg <michael.goldberg@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Formatting....
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 16:32:16 MST
Actually, the log editor should have a say in this, before you just
blast this off as no one cares. Personally, I would like something
that doesn't blend in as well.... [ ] denote the text of a post to
much so it risks confusion if the post is read quickly. (as far as
the beginning and ending of posts)

Not that it matters a whole lot.

*shrug*
Mike
Message no. 12
From: "B. Legangneux" <b.legangneux@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Formatting....
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 08:40:58 +0200
I've always thought that >>>>>[]<<<<< was what denoted the
text. If
the log editor uses [], of course that could create a real mess.

Who has the solution to this problem?

----------------------------------------------------------------------
b.legangneux@**********.com

> .... [ ] denote the text of a post
to
> much so it risks confusion if the post is read quickly. (as far
as
> the beginning and ending of posts)
Message no. 13
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Formatting....
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 20:37:26 -0700
B. Legangneux wrote:
<<I've always thought that >>>>>[]<<<<< was what
denoted the text. If
the log editor uses [], of course that could create a real mess.
Who has the solution to this problem?>>

I don't see that it's that much of a problem. The former's offset with
five lt's/gt's; admittedly, if someone's running a text scan for
brackets (why?) they'll run into a problem.

Using the brackets after an +++++Include makes sense to me; it's a way
to identify to the reader what a file is supposed to be (especially
given
some people's tendency to still write filenames as 8.3's).

There are two other options I see..

- Insist on more descriptive names:
+++++Include: SalesBrochure.file, or

+++++Include: Promotional material on sapphires from GemWorld
...which tends to lead to looong descriptors, to the point it may
as well be offset by brackets;

- or, insist that characters describe the material they're sending.
+++++Include: slsbrch.txt
"Jack, I'm sending you the GemWorld brochure - take a look at that
12-carat beauty!" To which I can only reply: Yawn.

Folk seem to be using the Includes mostly as a way to insert videologs,
in which case they're usually followed by the contents of said footage;
in the incident we're all discussing, including the lowdown would've
been
completely off-track, since it was incidental to the actual message.
My vote's in for using brackets.

(Of course, I'm also for appending a file size, as I've done in posts,
but I won't insist that that habit gets picked up....)


-Matt
Message no. 14
From: Jaimie Nicholson <jaimie.nicholson@********.OTAGO.AC.NZ>
Subject: Re: Formatting....
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 10:32:27 +1200
(Sorry about this matb, you get this twice due to the reply command on my
mailer picking your address to reply to, instead of plotd.)

>(Of course, I'm also for appending a file size, as I've done in posts,
>but I won't insist that that habit gets picked up....)

Yeah, but how big is a MP?

And in response to M Goldberg's comment about getting the log editor's
opinion, who is the currnet log editor? Is there one?

PLAYTHING OF A CRUEL GOD
JAIMIE NICHOLSON
Message no. 15
From: "Mark L. Neidengard" <mneideng@****.CALTECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Formatting....
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 15:59:02 -0700
According to Jaimie Nicholson:
>Yeah, but how big is a MP?

OH GAWD...please, let's not get into that again. The megapulse is a fictional
unit of information size that has nothing to do with reality and everything
to do with the dramatic atmosphere FASA wanted to create. Just go with the
interpretation that a megapulse is just that, a megapulse, and you'll be
fine.
--
/!\/!ark /!\!eidengard, CS Major, VLSI. http://www.cacr.caltech.edu/~mneideng
"Fairy of sleep, controller of illusions" Operator/Jack-of-all-Trades, CACR
"Control the person for my own purpose." "Don't mess with the Dark
Elves!"
-Pirotess, _Record_of_Lodoss_War_ Shadowrunner and Anime Addict
Message no. 16
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Formatting....
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 05:34:53 -0700
Mark L. Neidengard wrote:

<<According to Jaimie Nicholson:
Yeah, but how big is a MP?>>

<<OH GAWD...please, let's not get into that again. The megapulse is a
fictional unit of information size that has nothing to do with reality
and everything to do with the dramatic atmosphere FASA wanted to create.
Just go with the interpretation that a megapulse is just that, a
megapulse, and you'll be fine.>>

Don't pop a fuse, Mark. I take Jaimie's question to mean how I'd decide
how many MPs a post should equal, not how MPs and gigabytes compare.

There's a table of MP rates in the back of Shadowbeat, as follows:

High-res video imaging: 1 MP/minute
Trideo imaging: 5 MP/minute
High-res trid imaging: 10 MP/minute
Normal spectrum sound: 1 MP/minute
Extended spectrum sound: 3 MP/minute
(Simsense rates left out)

Recording through a cybereye costs 1MP/minute.

So, if ten minutes of action and conversation are being posted, it's
about 20MP in size. Obviously, file sizes remain fairly arbitrary.


Of course, these rates are extremely arbitrary, and (IMHO) could use
some re-tooling. I include file sizes in posts because (by and large)
the Includes are meant to be saved by the receiving party, and it makes
sense that they'd want to know how large a file they're saving.

Real-life: Netcruiser (the weak news/mail reader supplied by Netcom)
gives me file sizes for just about everything I encounter online, while
Netscape (sigh) doesn't, unless it's mentioned on a webpage. I
personally like to know how large a Usenet screed might be, so I can
better ignore it....

-Matt
Message no. 17
From: Jaimie Nicholson <jaimie.nicholson@********.OTAGO.AC.NZ>
Subject: Re: Formatting....
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 10:00:25 +1200
>>OH GAWD...please, let's not get into that again...
>
>I take Jaimie's question to mean how I'd decide
>how many MPs a post should equal, not how MPs and gigabytes compare.

Yes, that's what I meant.

(Although if you really wanted to figure the MP-GB ratio out, there's a bit
in the Hermetic libraries section of SRII that tells you how many MP a CD
can hold... just in case anyone's real-life group asks, as mine once did,
and you were reduced to such wise responses as "ummm... I... er...")

PLAYTHING OF A CRUEL GOD
JAIMIE NICHOLSON
Message no. 18
From: Jaimie Nicholson <jaimie.nicholson@********.OTAGO.AC.NZ>
Subject: Formatting
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 12:13:20 +1200
Really, how hard is it? Sure, it's pedantic to expect it to be perfect, and
everyone (especially me) makes mistakes now and then, but this is getting
ridiculous.

PLAYTHING OF A CRUEL GOD
JAIMIE NICHOLSON
Message no. 19
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Formatting
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 13:31:17 -0400
At 12:13 PM 7/8/98 +1200, you wrote:
>Really, how hard is it? Sure, it's pedantic to expect it to be perfect, and
>everyone (especially me) makes mistakes now and then, but this is getting
>ridiculous.

Agreed. I do hope that our admin type folks are on the job, because I'm
quite tired of seeing sig files and other formatting errors that could be
eliminated by simply reading the FAQ and paying attention. I'm not perfect
either, but I do consider my formatting to generally be solid.

Please folks. Format properly. It could save lives.

Erik J.

URL to go here eventually...
Message no. 20
From: "Mark A. Imbriaco" <mark.imbriaco@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Formatting
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 17:40:33 -0400
On Wed, 8 Jul 1998, Erik Jameson wrote:

> At 12:13 PM 7/8/98 +1200, you wrote:
> >Really, how hard is it? Sure, it's pedantic to expect it to be perfect, and
> >everyone (especially me) makes mistakes now and then, but this is getting
> >ridiculous.
>
> Agreed. I do hope that our admin type folks are on the job, because I'm
> quite tired of seeing sig files and other formatting errors that could be
> eliminated by simply reading the FAQ and paying attention. I'm not perfect
> either, but I do consider my formatting to generally be solid.
>
> Please folks. Format properly. It could save lives.

You're right. I'm cracking down. I've sent two warnings today, one of
which was replied to by a polite "I'm sorry -- it won't happen again", the
other of which was apparently ignored. The second person posted another
message later in the day violating the same guidelines that the first
message I sent warned about and I promptly deleted the account from the
list with instructions to read the FAQ and resubscribe.

ShadowTk is a low tolerance zone until the formatting has come back under
control. I will issue one warning and immediately remove accounts on
subsequent violations.

-Mark
Message no. 21
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Formatting
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 18:52:09 -0400
At 05:40 PM 7/8/98 -0400, you wrote:

>> Please folks. Format properly. It could save lives.
>
>You're right. I'm cracking down. I've sent two warnings today, one of
>which was replied to by a polite "I'm sorry -- it won't happen again", the
>other of which was apparently ignored. The second person posted another
>message later in the day violating the same guidelines that the first
>message I sent warned about and I promptly deleted the account from the
>list with instructions to read the FAQ and resubscribe.

Thanks Mark. That makes some of us old-geezers so happy we can almost walk
without our canes and walkers!

>ShadowTk is a low tolerance zone until the formatting has come back under
>control. I will issue one warning and immediately remove accounts on
>subsequent violations.

Ouch. Better make sure to be on my guard...

Erik J.

URL to go here soon...

Further Reading

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