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Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: The Wyrm Ouroboros <mehaffhm@******.SAN.UC.EDU>
Subject: Gamma-grade Cyberware
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1993 17:52:22 -0500
> Instead of nanites, talk about a form of new cyber, GAMMA quality with
> 50% savings in essence. Developed by Yoshida Tech using special
> high-tech manufacturing techniques.

Ogh. Oooog. Um. I don't suppose you'd allow YT to have 'abducted' the
techniques, would you, Rob? I never 'allowed' it into the list, mainly
because I wasn't sure about the reaction of the list to the concept, but
the Nemesis Conglomerate (of which Crystech is a part) has, at least in
my game world, developed Gamma grade cyber. They used different
materiels as well as new techniques, but....

NC gamma-grade saved, I seem to recall, 35% essence in the implantee.
50% is .very. high -- I recall the highest my game went was Epsilon,
Delta saving 40% and Epsilon saving 45%. Cost? x11, x11 (different
company), and x20. Nemesis never really had Delta, though -- their
'Epsilon' was a fusion of the other corp's Delta and their own Gamma.

'Tis just a thought/comment and suggestion.

--
Ouroboros
The (Undead) Wyrm of the .Net
Message no. 2
From: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@*******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Gamma-grade Cyberware
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1993 17:28:07 -0600
On Thu, 11 Nov 1993, The Wyrm Ouroboros wrote:

> Ogh. Oooog. Um. I don't suppose you'd allow YT to have 'abducted' the
> techniques, would you, Rob? I never 'allowed' it into the list, mainly
> because I wasn't sure about the reaction of the list to the concept, but
> the Nemesis Conglomerate (of which Crystech is a part) has, at least in
> my game world, developed Gamma grade cyber. They used different
> materiels as well as new techniques, but....

YT has been heavily into cyber research from the dawn of the cyber age
(Joseph was responsible for many of the early advancements in
cyberware), and I won't be having them 'aquire' stuff from anybody except
in legitimate terms (YT is a good corp, ask anyone).

>
> NC gamma-grade saved, I seem to recall, 35% essence in the implantee.
> 50% is .very. high -- I recall the highest my game went was Epsilon,
> Delta saving 40% and Epsilon saving 45%. Cost? x11, x11 (different
> company), and x20. Nemesis never really had Delta, though -- their
> 'Epsilon' was a fusion of the other corp's Delta and their own Gamma.

Uh, betaware is 40% less at a x7 cost acording to the SSC.

Gamma: 50% at perhaps x12 or so (its all prototype at this point).

____ Robert A. Hayden <=> hayden@*******.mankato.msus.edu
\ /__ -=-=-=-=- <=> -=-=-=-=-
\/ / Finger for Geek Code Info <=> Veteran of the Bermuda Triangle
\/ Finger for PGP 2.3a Public Key <=> Expeditionary Force -- 1993-1951
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
(GEEK CODE 1.0.1) GAT d- -p+(---) c++(++++) l++ u++ e+/* m++(*)@ s-/++
n-(---) h+(*) f+ g+ w++ t++ r++ y+(*)
Message no. 3
From: The Wyrm Ouroboros <mehaffhm@******.SAN.UC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Gamma-grade Cyberware
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1993 19:04:04 -0500
> YT has been heavily into cyber research from the dawn of the cyber age
> (Joseph was responsible for many of the early advancements in
> cyberware), and I won't be having them 'aquire' stuff from anybody except
> in legitimate terms (YT is a good corp, ask anyone).

*shudders* Ugh. No offense, Robert, but though it sounds, fictionwise,
fantastic.... it just wouldn't cut it in the SR world. Not really.
With runs being financed against you, and you not seeking out new info
in return through less.... 'legal' methods.

But I always thought YT was a 'good' corp 'cause they never turned on
their runners. (By which definition NC is a 'good' corp... but they use
runners, particularly deckers, with disgusting frequency, just like any
other corp out there.)

> Uh, betaware is 40% less at a x7 cost acording to the SSC.

You sure about that?? Hmmm. I thought I was working with the
following 'savings':

Alpha : 10%, x3
Beta : 20%, x7
Gamma : 35%, x11
Delta : 40%, x11
Epsilon : 45%, x20

Ptui. Whatever.

> Gamma: 50% at perhaps x12 or so (its all prototype at this point).

If it's all prototype, it'll be accordingly higher in cost. Make it
'exclusive'..... aka 'you better have a favor owed to you by one of the
higher-ups to even have a prayer'.

--
Ouroboros
The (Undead) Wyrm of the .Net
Message no. 4
From: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@*******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Gamma-grade Cyberware
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1993 15:41:34 -0600
To quickly solve the argument about how much essencc e gamma qualify ware
shoudl save:

Street Sam: Page 98

Type Essence Cost
---- ------- ----
ALPHA -20%(x.8) x3
BETA -40%(x.6) x7

so:
GAMMA -50%(x.5) x12 (production cost, prototype cost more)
DELTA -60%(x.4) x18 (still in design phases)



-------------------

Thus, the concept of Yoshida Tech putting Gamma Quality ware into
prototype operation is certainly feasible. Also, remember that both
Joseph and Norman are Eagle Shamans. They take double magic loss from
cyber. It would make sense that they would pursue essence friendly
cyberware, if for no other reason that essence friendly cyber is a good
thing for them.

____ Robert A. Hayden <=> hayden@*******.mankato.msus.edu
\ /__ -=-=-=-=- <=> -=-=-=-=-
\/ / Finger for Geek Code Info <=> Veteran of the Bermuda Triangle
\/ Finger for PGP 2.3a Public Key <=> Expeditionary Force -- 1993-1951
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
(GEEK CODE 1.0.1) GAT d- -p+(---) c++(++++) l++ u++ e+/* m++(*)@ s-/++
n-(---) h+(*) f+ g+ w++ t++ r++ y+(*)
Message no. 5
From: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@*******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Gamma-grade Cyberware
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1993 15:47:36 -0600
On Thu, 11 Nov 1993, The Deb Decker wrote:

> Forwarded to Run instead of Plot-D becaue the technical stuff in the
> original confused the hapless poster who's running on 12 hgours sleep in
> the past 72. . .

Forwarded back to PLOT-D cuz Yoshida Tech is a ShadowTK entity onlyL

> Ah, but they don't perform unethical experimentss, gouge prices, or cheat
> on their taxes. Nor do they steal and kidnap information and technology
> from other corps; they develop it jointly or on their own. Am I right, Rob?

In a nutshell, that's right. YT doen't stab their neightbors in the back
to make a buck. Yes, they want to make a profit, but they won't
sacrifice fundamental ethics to do that.

If they need tech, they will develop it, buy it for a reasonable price,
or work jointly with someone. They do not steal it or kidnapp it or
blackmail for it.

Also, they NEVER EVER use black ice on their computer systems, except
where required by contract (military R&D for example). They instead use
some really good Trace&melt utilities. The mailtain security by using a
seperate in house network that can only be access onsite, and rely on
physical seciruty to provide protection.

They also have all of the MONICA derived GNU utilities that can protect
them. You don't want to go against these things twice. They learn and
adapt. The same attack will never work twice against them.


____ Robert A. Hayden <=> hayden@*******.mankato.msus.edu
\ /__ -=-=-=-=- <=> -=-=-=-=-
\/ / Finger for Geek Code Info <=> Veteran of the Bermuda Triangle
\/ Finger for PGP 2.3a Public Key <=> Expeditionary Force -- 1993-1951
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
(GEEK CODE 1.0.1) GAT d- -p+(---) c++(++++) l++ u++ e+/* m++(*)@ s-/++
n-(---) h+(*) f+ g+ w++ t++ r++ y+(*)
Message no. 6
From: The Wyrm Ouroboros <mehaffhm@******.SAN.UC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Gamma-grade Cyberware
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1993 04:20:42 -0500
> Street Sam: Page 98
>
> Type Essence Cost
> ---- ------- ----
> ALPHA -20%(x.8) x3
> BETA -40%(x.6) x7
>
> so:
> GAMMA -50%(x.5) x12 (production cost, prototype cost more)
> DELTA -60%(x.4) x18 (still in design phases)

Oh, Goddess. Would that make Epsilon on the essence-fraction of
-70%(x.3), and a cost multiplier of something like x25??

--
Ouroboros
The (Undead) Wyrm of the .Net
Message no. 7
From: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@*******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Gamma-grade Cyberware
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1993 13:45:41 -0600
On Sat, 13 Nov 1993, The Wyrm Ouroboros wrote:

> Oh, Goddess. Would that make Epsilon on the essence-fraction of
> -70%(x.3), and a cost multiplier of something like x25??

Only if based on current pricing.

Remember, and this is particularily true for computers, tech evolves fast
and the prices stats realatively constant.

Three (or was it four?) years ago, I paid 2800 for a 386-25 system with
105MB drive and VGA 512k monitor system. That exact same system would
rin about 800 to 1000 now. 2800 now will get you a 486-66 w 350MB, 2MB
VGA, CD-ROM, MODEM, and software.

We've already seen some advaces in tech (the new 1/3 essence memory from
ShadowTech).

By the time 'epsilon' ware comes out, Alpha will be considered obsolete.

____ Robert A. Hayden <=> hayden@*******.mankato.msus.edu
\ /__ -=-=-=-=- <=> -=-=-=-=-
\/ / Finger for Geek Code Info <=> Veteran of the Bermuda Triangle
\/ Finger for PGP 2.3a Public Key <=> Expeditionary Force -- 1993-1951
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
(GEEK CODE 1.0.1) GAT d- -p+(---) c++(++++) l++ u++ e+/* m++(*)@ s-/++
n-(---) h+(*) f+ g+ w++ t++ r++ y+(*)
Message no. 8
From: Fahnuir <FAHNUIR@******.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Gamma-grade Cyberware
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1993 12:26:43 PRT
>In a nutshell, that's right. YT doen't stab their neightbors in the back
>to make a buck. Yes, they want to make a profit, but they won't
>sacrifice fundamental ethics to do that.

That's what all the corps say...

>If they need tech, they will develop it, buy it for a reasonable price,
>or work jointly with someone. They do not steal it or kidnapp it or
>blackmail for it.

Oh... Look at them... How pure they are!!!!

>Also, they NEVER EVER use black ice on their computer systems, except

Of course they don't use black ICE!! How could i have ever thought that they
used something like that??!!! *THWAP MYSELF*

>where required by contract (military R&D for example). They instead use
>some really good Trace&melt utilities. The mailtain security by using a
>seperate in house network that can only be access onsite, and rely on
>physical seciruty to provide protection.
>
>They also have all of the MONICA derived GNU utilities that can protect
>them. You don't want to go against these things twice. They learn and
>adapt. The same attack will never work twice against them.

Fahnuir

In your room, i feel you and i just can't get enough...
Judas
Message no. 9
From: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@*******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Gamma-grade Cyberware
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1993 11:49:20 -0600
On Mon, 15 Nov 1993, Fahnuir wrote:

[much whining about how a corp couldn't possibly be anything but a
back-stabbing prick of an organization deleted]

*in walks a tall man dressed all in black. He wears a long cape and a
black, demonic looking helmet*

He hisses, "I find your lack of faith . . . disturbing."

*you feel youself being choked by some unseen magical forces*

____ Robert A. Hayden <=> hayden@*******.mankato.msus.edu
\ /__ -=-=-=-=- <=> -=-=-=-=-
\/ / Finger for Geek Code Info <=> Veteran of the Bermuda Triangle
\/ Finger for PGP 2.3a Public Key <=> Expeditionary Force -- 1993-1951
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
(GEEK CODE 1.0.1) GAT d- -p+(---) c++(++++) l++ u++ e+/* m++(*)@ s-/++
n-(---) h+(*) f+ g+ w++ t++ r++ y+(*)

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!