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Message no. 1
From: Evan Hughes <ehughes@****.carleton.ca>
Subject: Heheheh.
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 96 8:14:20 EST
It's good to have Jen and Gabe back again... My Id is enjoying the
exertion... =)




Evan Hughes
Honours Computer Science
http://chat.carleton.ca/~ehughes
Message no. 2
From: mneideng@****.caltech.edu (Mark L. Neidengard)
Subject: Re: Heheheh.
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 09:52:36 -0800 (PST)
According to Evan Hughes:
>
> It's good to have Jen and Gabe back again... My Id is enjoying the
> exertion... =)

Yup. =) I swear, if it wasn't for the impending Shadowwar, those damn mercs
would get _such_ a talking to. Actually, they might get one anyway.
--
/!\/!ark /!\!eidengard, CS Major, VLSI. http://www.cacr.caltech.edu/~mneideng
"Fairy of sleep, controller of illusions" Operator/Jack-of-all-Trades, CACR
"Control the person for my own purpose." "Don't mess with the Dark
Elves!"
-Pirotess, _Record_of_Lodoss_War_ Shadowrunner and Anime Addict
Message no. 3
From: Evan Hughes <ehughes@****.carleton.ca>
Subject: Re: Heheheh.
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 96 23:54:11 EST
Mark L. Neidengard writes:
> Yup. =) I swear, if it wasn't for the impending Shadowwar, those damn mercs
> would get _such_ a talking to. Actually, they might get one anyway.

*grin* Nothing they don't deserve I hope... =)


Evan Hughes
Honours Computer Science
http://chat.carleton.ca/~ehughes
Message no. 4
From: ANGLISS BRIAN EDWARD <angliss@****.Colorado.EDU>
Subject: Re: Heheheh.
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 22:14:38 -0700 (MST)
Whoah, is everyone blowing off their steam at me? Damn, all I do is
bring in 4 mercenaries with anti-runner attitudes and the shit hits the fan.

Cool!

Imagine how bad it would get if I resurected Dante again.... Nah. He's
dead, and the body was left in the Shattergraves before Chicago became
Bug City. Kinda hard to do that except as a ghost.

Brian
Message no. 5
From: GKoth2258@***.com
Subject: Re: Heheheh.
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 1996 14:17:53 -0500
Could we PLEASE have Jen & Gabe taken down a peg or two? They have got WAY
too much attitude for no one to try and teach them a lesson...

Erik
Message no. 6
From: JOHN SPAIN <93135653@****.dcu.ie>
Subject: Re: Heheheh.
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 1996 19:32:03 +0000 (GMT)
>
Could we PLEASE have Jen & Gabe taken down a peg or two? They have got WAY
>too much attitude for no one to try and teach them a lesson...

I vote NO. Of course, it's up to Evan in the end. But much as J&G can be
irritating, I am more irritated by the 'big boys' playing bully.

Maybe if they do really get on people's nerves, eventually....

-J.S.
Message no. 7
From: Evan Hughes <ehughes@****.carleton.ca>
Subject: Re: Heheheh.
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 96 20:04:13 EST
GKoth2258@***.com writes:
> Could we PLEASE have Jen & Gabe taken down a peg or two? They have got WAY
> too much attitude for no one to try and teach them a lesson...

Someone can give it a shot, but they are quite good (not as good as
they say, but then again, if anyone is, I would not let my characters
anywhere near 'em...) If anyone wants to make a run on Jen and Gabe, tell
me, and I'll tell you the kind of drek they'll be up against. (J&G are a
moving target. Catching 'em is half the battle)

Evan Hughes
Honours Computer Science
http://chat.carleton.ca/~ehughes
Message no. 8
From: Evan Hughes <ehughes@****.carleton.ca>
Subject: Re: Heheheh.
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 96 20:05:28 EST
JOHN SPAIN writes:
> I vote NO. Of course, it's up to Evan in the end. But much as J&G can be
> irritating, I am more irritated by the 'big boys' playing bully.

We can pop an explanation in for it fairly easily... Of course, the REAL
reason why a run would be made against them wouldn't be let out on Sland
for quite a while...

> Maybe if they do really get on people's nerves, eventually....

I've always thought of them as pleasantly refreshing personally... =)


Evan Hughes
Honours Computer Science
http://chat.carleton.ca/~ehughes
Message no. 9
From: mneideng@****.caltech.edu (Mark L. Neidengard)
Subject: Re: Heheheh.
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 1996 00:23:39 -0800 (PST)
According to JOHN SPAIN:
>
> >
> Could we PLEASE have Jen & Gabe taken down a peg or two? They have got WAY
> >too much attitude for no one to try and teach them a lesson...
>
> I vote NO. Of course, it's up to Evan in the end. But much as J&G can be
> irritating, I am more irritated by the 'big boys' playing bully.
>
> Maybe if they do really get on people's nerves, eventually....

I have no problem with people having an additude in casual communications.
If people can wield their verbal rapiers and defeat them, fine, but I don't
think physical rejoinders are warranted. Of course, when it actually comes
to runs, I insist that J&G be subject to the same laws that all of our other
characters abide by =)
--
/!\/!ark /!\!eidengard, CS Major, VLSI. http://www.cacr.caltech.edu/~mneideng
"Fairy of sleep, controller of illusions" Operator/Jack-of-all-Trades, CACR
"Control the person for my own purpose." "Don't mess with the Dark
Elves!"
-Pirotess, _Record_of_Lodoss_War_ Shadowrunner and Anime Addict
Message no. 10
From: Evan Hughes <ehughes@****.carleton.ca>
Subject: Re: Heheheh.
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 96 13:20:36 EST
Mark L. Neidengard writes:
> I have no problem with people having an additude in casual communications.
> If people can wield their verbal rapiers and defeat them, fine, but I don't
> think physical rejoinders are warranted. Of course, when it actually comes
> to runs, I insist that J&G be subject to the same laws that all of our other
> characters abide by =)

'Course. (Wonders about how much the Grimoire costs...)



Evan Hughes
Honours Computer Science
http://chat.carleton.ca/~ehughes
Message no. 11
From: bschlitt@**********.net (Dr, Robert Kyle)
Subject: Re: Heheheh.
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 1996 13:38:40 -0600
>JOHN SPAIN writes:
>> I vote NO. Of course, it's up to Evan in the end. But much as J&G can be
>> irritating, I am more irritated by the 'big boys' playing bully.
>
> We can pop an explanation in for it fairly easily... Of course, the REAL
>reason why a run would be made against them wouldn't be let out on Sland
>for quite a while...
>
>> Maybe if they do really get on people's nerves, eventually....
>
> I've always thought of them as pleasantly refreshing personally... =)
>
>
>Evan Hughes
>Honours Computer Science
>http://chat.carleton.ca/~ehughes
>
>
I find their attitude annoying, but quite justified and common among
hackers communicating over the net. Basically, I say if someone wants to do
a run on them, fine. If not, fine. None of my characters are interested
either way.
That means that Al-Nisr will not be hunting down Jen and Gabe. He
does not like pride, but believes that Genies/Spirits/ etc. will punish
them. He does not need to send lesser minions after them.

Sincerely,
Benjamin Schlitt
Message no. 12
From: GKoth2258@***.com
Subject: Re: Heheheh.
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 1996 15:16:33 -0500
See, I _do_ have a big problem with Jen&Gabe's attitude. It's ALWAYS "We are
better than you scum-sucking drekheads. Oh, our competition is Argent, Kid
Stealth, Steel Lynx, and Hatchetman, with FastJack running Matrix cover and
GOD!!! running astral overwatch? We could kick their asses. And still have
time to get litter for Killer...."

This drives me NUTS!! It's one thing to have characters that make shows of
power, or knowledge. Everyone does it. Nothing wrong with it. And I have
no problem with insult battles. Anybody remember last year when Freddy Frypp
and the Whistler were trading insults and threats as if they were "Magic: the
Gathering" cards? Nothing wrong with that!

It's the fact they are ALWAYS better than everyone else. They HAVE to be
brought back down to mortal dimensions. Someone, maybe me, needs to do a
well-planned assault, or ambush, or trap, that won't kill them, just teach
them a lesson about blabbing. Sorry, but I _really_ think this needs to be
done.

Erik
Message no. 13
From: mneideng@****.caltech.edu (Mark L. Neidengard)
Subject: Re: Heheheh.
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 1996 12:26:11 -0800 (PST)
According to GKoth2258@***.com:
>
> See, I _do_ have a big problem with Jen&Gabe's attitude. It's ALWAYS "We
are
> better than you scum-sucking drekheads. Oh, our competition is Argent, Kid
> Stealth, Steel Lynx, and Hatchetman, with FastJack running Matrix cover and
> GOD!!! running astral overwatch? We could kick their asses. And still have
> time to get litter for Killer...."
>
> This drives me NUTS!! It's one thing to have characters that make shows of
> power, or knowledge. Everyone does it. Nothing wrong with it. And I have
> no problem with insult battles. Anybody remember last year when Freddy Frypp
> and the Whistler were trading insults and threats as if they were "Magic: the
> Gathering" cards? Nothing wrong with that!
>
> It's the fact they are ALWAYS better than everyone else. They HAVE to be
> brought back down to mortal dimensions. Someone, maybe me, needs to do a
> well-planned assault, or ambush, or trap, that won't kill them, just teach
> them a lesson about blabbing. Sorry, but I _really_ think this needs to be
> done.

I appreciate your position. Lemme put it this way: if J&G have pissed someone
off with their spouting off, they need to be prepared for the consequences. If
someone wants to go for them, do it. I just want to be assured that both
the assaulters _and_ the defenders won't do anything that can't be justified
by sane-powerlevel constraints.
--
/!\/!ark /!\!eidengard, CS Major, VLSI. http://www.cacr.caltech.edu/~mneideng
"Fairy of sleep, controller of illusions" Operator/Jack-of-all-Trades, CACR
"Control the person for my own purpose." "Don't mess with the Dark
Elves!"
-Pirotess, _Record_of_Lodoss_War_ Shadowrunner and Anime Addict
Message no. 14
From: Adam Jury <adam@***.cosmos.ab.ca>
Subject: Re: Heheheh.
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 1996 14:19:06 -0700
At 13:15 21/01/96 -0500, you wrote:
>Mark L. Neidengard writes:
>> I have no problem with people having an additude in casual communications.
>> If people can wield their verbal rapiers and defeat them, fine, but I don't
>> think physical rejoinders are warranted. Of course, when it actually comes
>> to runs, I insist that J&G be subject to the same laws that all of our other
>> characters abide by =)
>
> 'Course. (Wonders about how much the Grimoire costs...)
>
> $19.30 canadian. I bought it yesterday :)
>
>Evan Hughes
>Honours Computer Science
>http://chat.carleton.ca/~ehughes
>
>
---------------------------------------------------\
\Adam@******.ab.ca http://www.cosmos.ab.ca/~adam \
\--------------------------------------------------\ \
\Adam Jury. def. The only person who crys when he \
\only gets 30 emails in a day/ God bless Kurt \
----------------------------------------------------
Message no. 15
From: JOHN SPAIN <93135653@****.dcu.ie>
Subject: Re: Heheheh.
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 1996 17:36:08 +0000 (GMT)
>to runs, I insist that J&G be subject to the same laws that all of our other
>characters abide by =)

*bat bat wide eyed liquid stare*

HeeexCuse me?

Laws?? Laws?? Laws.

*looks around*

*looks up*

*reads FAQ*

*re-reads FAQ*

*reads all SR books he doesn't at the moment actually _have_*

*reads back logs*

*ponders*

I wouldn't say there are any laaws as such. Call 'em general unspoken
guidelines Thou Shalt Not Transgress Under Penalty Of Getting Everyone
Else On The List In A Huff.

IMHO, anyway.

:)

-J.S.
Message no. 16
From: Evan Hughes <ehughes@****.carleton.ca>
Subject: Re: Heheheh.
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 96 16:21:52 EST
GKoth2258@***.com writes:
> See, I _do_ have a big problem with Jen&Gabe's attitude. It's ALWAYS "We
are
> better than you scum-sucking drekheads. Oh, our competition is Argent, Kid
> Stealth, Steel Lynx, and Hatchetman, with FastJack running Matrix cover and
> GOD!!! running astral overwatch? We could kick their asses. And still have
> time to get litter for Killer...."

With strength in numbers, they probably could be beaten (actually, due
to the reality thing, it would be almost guarenteed that they would be
trashed). But that doesn't mean you have to go out of your way to do it.

Jen and Gabe act like bastards, yes. That is their characters. Just
because they say something doesn't mean it's true (even though they
beleive it... To a certain point. =).

> This drives me NUTS!! It's one thing to have characters that make shows of
> power, or knowledge. Everyone does it. Nothing wrong with it. And I have
> no problem with insult battles. Anybody remember last year when Freddy Frypp
> and the Whistler were trading insults and threats as if they were "Magic: the
> Gathering" cards? Nothing wrong with that!

These two don't show any power or any knowledge. There is very little
opportunity on this forum to do it (I would _LOVE_ to get into a technical
discussion of how decks work... *grin* But the trouble is we'd have to
decide who's rules to operate on... *sucks*). All that J&G do is shoot
their mouths off. It just so happens that they are opinionated. Very
opinionated. *grin* You've met people like them in RL... (although they
arn't this bad in RL... They have a severe case of netsyndrome.)

> It's the fact they are ALWAYS better than everyone else. They HAVE to be
> brought back down to mortal dimensions. Someone, maybe me, needs to do a
> well-planned assault, or ambush, or trap, that won't kill them, just teach
> them a lesson about blabbing. Sorry, but I _really_ think this needs to be
> done.

It "needs" to be done. Think about this for a moment. You're talking
about shadowrunners (and from the recent postings, mercs as well). Are
they going to be stupid enough to go out of their way to hunt down a pair
of people who DO NOT want to be found? Are they going to put everything on
the back burner for a few weeks to try and get to know Jen and Gabe's
schedule (in case you're wondering, they don't really have one... Like I
said. They don't want to be found...)? Are they going to put their lives
on the line JUST because they find somebody's email messages annoying? Are
they going to waste all of the resources (ammo does cost cash, and most
runner's don't have too much of that floating around...) to "teach a
lesson"?

If the answer to ANY of the above was a yes, then those characters
should not be in the position they are today (I assume they are somewhat
well established) by any means other than luck. All they would be doing in
these circumstances is, as Mark said, acting like bullies. This may work
on a schoolyard, but not in the "reality" of Shadowrun.


If you want to "teach them a lesson", feel free. But at least try not
to be childish about it. I have no trouble with them "being taken down a
notch" so long as it's realistic, but as soon as you start making the game
a set of whiney little vendettas you start to damage it.


I'm sorry for the tone of this message. *grin* Maybe running Jen and
Gabe for too long has started to toast my ettiquette abilities... =)


Evan Hughes
Honours Computer Science
http://chat.carleton.ca/~ehughes
Message no. 17
From: Evan Hughes <ehughes@****.carleton.ca>
Subject: Re: Heheheh.
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 96 16:22:40 EST
Mark L. Neidengard writes:
> I appreciate your position. Lemme put it this way: if J&G have pissed someone
> off with their spouting off, they need to be prepared for the consequences. If
> someone wants to go for them, do it. I just want to be assured that both
> the assaulters _and_ the defenders won't do anything that can't be justified
> by sane-powerlevel constraints.

Which is one of the reasons I want a copy of the grimoire... =)



Evan Hughes
Honours Computer Science
http://chat.carleton.ca/~ehughes
Message no. 18
From: Chuck McKenzie <kilroy@**.wisc.edu>
Subject: Re: Heheheh.
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 1996 15:36:27 -0600 (CST)
On Sun, 21 Jan 1996, Evan Hughes wrote:
>
> It "needs" to be done. Think about this for a moment. You're talking
> about shadowrunners (and from the recent postings, mercs as well). Are
> they going to be stupid enough to go out of their way to hunt down a pair
> of people who DO NOT want to be found? Are they going to put everything on
> the back burner for a few weeks to try and get to know Jen and Gabe's
> schedule (in case you're wondering, they don't really have one... Like I
> said. They don't want to be found...)? Are they going to put their lives
> on the line JUST because they find somebody's email messages annoying?

While established runners wouldn't want to bother with J/G, the way they
draw attention to themselves by boasting about their reps might make newer
runners try to boost their own reps by showing up the pair. If someone
is looking for a way to introduce a few new characters, this could be an
interesting chance.

Chuck McKenzie kilroy@***.cs.wisc.edu
Finger me for my PGP key/Geek code http://dax.cs.wisc.edu/~kilroy/
"My friend said, 'Try America Online'. I said 'Why? I already
have a computer'." - AOL TV ad
Message no. 19
From: Evan Hughes <ehughes@****.carleton.ca>
Subject: Re: Heheheh.
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 96 16:43:16 EST
Chuck McKenzie writes:
> While established runners wouldn't want to bother with J/G, the way they
> draw attention to themselves by boasting about their reps might make newer
> runners try to boost their own reps by showing up the pair. If someone
> is looking for a way to introduce a few new characters, this could be an
> interesting chance.

That was basically the gist of my post. *grin* Jen and Gabe would
probably be honoured that they were someone's "first run". (They would of
course ignore any previous run's that runner had made... =)


Evan Hughes
Honours Computer Science
http://chat.carleton.ca/~ehughes
Message no. 20
From: bschlitt@**********.net (Dr. Robert Kyle)
Subject: Re: Heheheh.
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 1996 17:05:06 -0600
>Chuck McKenzie writes:
>> While established runners wouldn't want to bother with J/G, the way they
>> draw attention to themselves by boasting about their reps might make newer
>> runners try to boost their own reps by showing up the pair. If someone
>> is looking for a way to introduce a few new characters, this could be an
>> interesting chance.
>
> That was basically the gist of my post. *grin* Jen and Gabe would
>probably be honoured that they were someone's "first run". (They would of
>course ignore any previous run's that runner had made... =)
>
>
>Evan Hughes
>Honours Computer Science
>http://chat.carleton.ca/~ehughes
>
>

An Excellent Idea. I have a character that could be introduced, and would
be happy to pair up with any wanna-bees that would go for J&B's reputation.
Anyone else want to sign on some new characters.

Sinc.
Benjamin Schlitt
Message no. 21
From: GKoth2258@***.com
Subject: Re: Heheheh.
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 14:02:09 -0500
Actually, Mr. Hughes, by always saying J&G are better than God, I think they
_are_ doing displays of power.

Up-and-comers would very much want a piece of those two, not only for the fac
they could say they did it, but there are enough "oldsters' annoyed by J&G
that these up-and-comers would probably get their gratitude.

And as for the old professionals who "wouln't" take the time and effort to
teach J&G a lesson, I beg to differ. Those two aren't making the
shadowrunner community look good. They are exacerbating the existing
conflicts between merc and runners, they are creating more tension in the
shadow community, and are attracting undue attention to the shadow community.
Exactly the sorts of things an old professional might want to "speak" to
them about. Especially if that old professional is grumpy...

Don't take this personal; it isn't meant that way. I am just really tired of
their mouthing off. And I suppose part of my problem is that I see NO
substance to their claims. All talk, no walk. Maybe you could actually have
them do a run? Have them prove they are more than just loudmouth wannabes.

BTW, if someone wanted to look hard enough, I don't care how careful or good
they are, they WILL be found. It's merely a matter of time and resources.
Trust me. My main character has gone through 3 identities, 2 faked deaths,
and a whole lot more, but he was still tracked over 3 years by an
_individual_. And it wasn't like he was being sloppy.

Erik
Message no. 22
From: Evan Hughes <ehughes@****.carleton.ca>
Subject: Re: Heheheh.
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 96 14:54:19 EST
GKoth2258@***.com writes:
> Actually, Mr. Hughes, by always saying J&G are better than God, I think they
> _are_ doing displays of power.

I'm not. They are. There is a difference. *gee, don't I feel schism
developing... =)*

> Up-and-comers would very much want a piece of those two, not only for the fac
> they could say they did it, but there are enough "oldsters' annoyed by J&G
> that these up-and-comers would probably get their gratitude.

Why? For fragging over a pair of (almost) self professed blowhards?
Get real. Respect doesn't come from trashing loudmouths, it comes from
suddenly showing up in a bar, 200,000 =Y= richer for no apparent reason.

> And as for the old professionals who "wouln't" take the time and effort to
> teach J&G a lesson, I beg to differ. Those two aren't making the
> shadowrunner community look good.

To who? Only runners and people interested in runners monitor
ShadowLand. And it's not like J&G got on TriD more than once since they
got to Seattle... =)

> They are exacerbating the existing
> conflicts between merc and runners, they are creating more tension in the
> shadow community,

Creating tension? Between who? Everyone else and them? Sland is a
bulliten board. Most people on it either don't know one another, or if
they do, they wouldn't care less about a pair of loudmouths. The shadowrun
community isn't one big happy family. Due to living conditions, most
runners would wipe almost any other runner. A little bit of "tension"
means nothing.

> and are attracting undue attention to the shadow community.

From who? Once again, they are only posting on Sland.

> Exactly the sorts of things an old professional might want to "speak" to
> them about. Especially if that old professional is grumpy...

Why? Why would an "old professional" care?

> Don't take this personal; it isn't meant that way. I am just really tired of
> their mouthing off.

Null persp. *grin* They are supposed to get on people's nerves... =)

> And I suppose part of my problem is that I see NO
> substance to their claims.

Uh... Take a look at their claims. I don't mind pissing people off with
my characterisations, but if they walk as well as they talk, I know I'll
be booted off the list within nanoseconds... =) =) =)

> All talk, no walk. Maybe you could actually have
> them do a run?

Actually, here's proof that complaining actually makes a difference.
They should be going on a run sometime soon. And they may even get a
slight injection of humility at the same time... =)
(do NOT bet on it though... =)

> Have them prove they are more than just loudmouth wannabes.

They've already done a little. Check out the assault upon their lives in
mid-December... Not too amazing (after all, it was exam time), but still a
bit in the way of proof...

> BTW, if someone wanted to look hard enough, I don't care how careful or good
> they are, they WILL be found. It's merely a matter of time and resources.

True. But it's a MAJOR resource problem. Jen and Gabe are currently
beind hidden (indirectly) by Sheppard Intrepid. It is my firm beleif that
anyone being hidden by a corp will be very hard to find. =)

> Trust me. My main character has gone through 3 identities, 2 faked deaths,
> and a whole lot more, but he was still tracked over 3 years by an
> _individual_. And it wasn't like he was being sloppy.

A matter of individual game mastering. If someone wants to fade, they
fade. If someone REALLY wants to fade, they can disappear. For example,
Jen and Gabe don't sleep in the same bed two nights in a row. Their
movements are decided by random. There is no pattern to their existance.

I would say more, but I have a limited connect time... =)


Evan Hughes
Honours Computer Science
http://chat.carleton.ca/~ehughes
Message no. 23
From: mneideng@****.caltech.edu (Mark L. Neidengard)
Subject: Re: Heheheh.
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 13:02:03 -0800 (PST)
According to GKoth2258@***.com:
>
> Actually, Mr. Hughes, by always saying J&G are better than God, I think they
> _are_ doing displays of power.

It's posturing, nothing more. What really matters is not what people claim
in print, but what they can do in reality. Most professionals are inclined
to discount people who brag too much; this would normally mean that either a)
J&G are actually squeebs trying to bolster their own rep or b) are actually
good and trying to put those around them off guard. I think we've gotten a
couple hints that point to the latter. =)

> Up-and-comers would very much want a piece of those two, not only for the fac
> they could say they did it, but there are enough "oldsters' annoyed by J&G
> that these up-and-comers would probably get their gratitude.

So go for it. If J&G can actually back up even a fraction of their big talk,
it will bolster _their_ reputation, which may also be part of the "plan".

> And as for the old professionals who "wouln't" take the time and effort to
> teach J&G a lesson, I beg to differ. Those two aren't making the
> shadowrunner community look good. They are exacerbating the existing
> conflicts between merc and runners, they are creating more tension in the
> shadow community, and are attracting undue attention to the shadow community.

Well, I'm not sure exactly how much of a "community" the "shadow
community" is
to begin with. It's a bunch of professionals who have commerce with each other
because they're in the same line of work (and perhaps developed friendships
that way). The exacerbation of conflict between the mercs and "runners" is
fairly trivial: most of the runners would actually agree with J&G on that
score. As for worsening relations with the outside world, how so?

> Don't take this personal; it isn't meant that way. I am just really tired of
> their mouthing off. And I suppose part of my problem is that I see NO
> substance to their claims. All talk, no walk. Maybe you could actually have
> them do a run? Have them prove they are more than just loudmouth wannabes.

We've seen at least one extract of footage. In a way, those two are a bit like
the Disbeliever who aroused so much ire a while back. A nuisance, and one
not worth chastizing; hence, he could get away with his shit. I actually like
thye fact that not every character on this list makes me feel all warm and
fuzzy all the time. =)
--
/!\/!ark /!\!eidengard, CS Major, VLSI. http://www.cacr.caltech.edu/~mneideng
"Fairy of sleep, controller of illusions" Operator/Jack-of-all-Trades, CACR
"Control the person for my own purpose." "Don't mess with the Dark
Elves!"
-Pirotess, _Record_of_Lodoss_War_ Shadowrunner and Anime Addict
Message no. 24
From: JOHN SPAIN <93135653@****.dcu.ie>
Subject: Re: Heheheh.
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 22:20:14 +0000 (GMT)
>We've seen at least one extract of footage. In a way, those two are a bit lik
>the Disbeliever who aroused so much ire a while back.

Heheheh. Yes exactly. Isn't it hiiigh time ol' Disby made a comeback?
*giggle*

-J.S
Message no. 25
From: Evan Hughes <ehughes@****.carleton.ca>
Subject: Re: Heheheh.
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 96 19:59:07 EST
Mark L. Neidengard writes:
> We've seen at least one extract of footage. In a way, those two are a bit like
> the Disbeliever who aroused so much ire a while back. A nuisance, and one
> not worth chastizing; hence, he could get away with his shit. I actually like
> thye fact that not every character on this list makes me feel all warm and
> fuzzy all the time. =)

There are WAY too many characters like that... *mutter*... =)


Evan Hughes
Honours Computer Science
http://chat.carleton.ca/~ehughes
Message no. 26
From: ANGLISS BRIAN EDWARD <angliss@****.Colorado.EDU>
Subject: Re: Heheheh.
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 22:18:20 -0700 (MST)
On Sun, 21 Jan 1996, Evan Hughes wrote:

> These two don't show any power or any knowledge. There is very little
> opportunity on this forum to do it (I would _LOVE_ to get into a technical
> discussion of how decks work... *grin* But the trouble is we'd have to
> decide who's rules to operate on... *sucks*). All that J&G do is shoot
> their mouths off. It just so happens that they are opinionated. Very
> opinionated. *grin* You've met people like them in RL... (although they
> arn't this bad in RL... They have a severe case of netsyndrome.)

Actually, I remember having a debate when I first introduced AJ on the
nature of vampirism. Since then, though, I've not been involved in as
many technical discussions. A few here and there, mostly private or via
plot-d in the process of plot development. But my brain is shutting down
again, so I could easily be forgetting several.

>
> It "needs" to be done. Think about this for a moment. You're talking
> about shadowrunners (and from the recent postings, mercs as well). Are
> they going to be stupid enough to go out of their way to hunt down a pair
> of people who DO NOT want to be found? Are they going to put everything on
> the back burner for a few weeks to try and get to know Jen and Gabe's
> schedule (in case you're wondering, they don't really have one... Like I
> said. They don't want to be found...)? Are they going to put their lives
> on the line JUST because they find somebody's email messages annoying? Are
> they going to waste all of the resources (ammo does cost cash, and most
> runner's don't have too much of that floating around...) to "teach a
> lesson"?

Well, it depends on the character, doesn't it? I have a few who wouldn't
mind the challenge.

> If the answer to ANY of the above was a yes, then those characters
> should not be in the position they are today (I assume they are somewhat
> well established) by any means other than luck. All they would be doing in
> these circumstances is, as Mark said, acting like bullies. This may work
> on a schoolyard, but not in the "reality" of Shadowrun.

Actually, there are a few who reached the established point and retired
who could spend the time doing the hunting. I remember a comment that
Mike Goldberg once told me about what he knew about vampires
contradicting how I run AJ. While I don't have a problem with it, I also
adopted his idea that, with years to plan, if AJ wanted something and was
willing to be patient, he could do it. Benefits of being effectively
immortal.... And AJs the only character, with the possible exception of
a villan or two, I run who'd be interested in teaching them a lesson.
He's been established a long time.


Brian
Message no. 27
From: Gawain Emrys Ap Geoffrey <g.l.g.steele@**********.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Heheheh.
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 10:19:59 PST
On Tue, 23 Jan 1996 14:49:13 -0500 Evan Hughes wrote:

> > Actually, Mr. Hughes, by always saying J&G are better
than God, I think they
> > _are_ doing displays of power.
>
> I'm not. They are. There is a difference. *gee, don't I
feel schism
> developing... =)*

Hey! GOD aren't so tough! Woody blew up their entire
earth-dimension based operation in '56!

(Or am I missing the point here? :->)

************************************************************
* * *
* GAWAIN EMRYS AP GEOFFREY * "It's a pink rabbit in space, *
* * It can pretty much do what it *
* OBO: Chablis Roleplaying * wants!" *
* Production * - My Mother *
* * *
************************************************************
* "And now they're trying to take my life away,... *
* ...They don't know my name, they don't know my kind." *
* - The Alarm : 68 Guns *
************************************************************
Message no. 28
From: Evan Hughes <ehughes@****.carleton.ca>
Subject: Re: Heheheh.
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 96 0:21:18 EST
ANGLISS BRIAN EDWARD writes:
> Actually, I remember having a debate when I first introduced AJ on the
> nature of vampirism. Since then, though, I've not been involved in as
> many technical discussions. A few here and there, mostly private or via

We need more technical discussions. Especially on how decks work. Decks
are cool. Technical discussions are cool. Ergo Technical discussion +
Decks = 2cool.

*glances at previous paragraph*
*is somewhat embarassed*

> > on the line JUST because they find somebody's email messages annoying? Are
> > they going to waste all of the resources (ammo does cost cash, and most
> > runner's don't have too much of that floating around...) to "teach a
> > lesson"?
>
> Well, it depends on the character, doesn't it? I have a few who wouldn't
> mind the challenge.

Up to you. But I still think something like that would be silly. =)

> > well established) by any means other than luck. All they would be doing in
> > these circumstances is, as Mark said, acting like bullies. This may work
> > on a schoolyard, but not in the "reality" of Shadowrun.
>
> Actually, there are a few who reached the established point and retired
> who could spend the time doing the hunting.

Most runners are retired. In the same manner that replicants are
retired. But this is my own personal bias and I'm only venting my spleen
(well, I'm not actually, I don't mind the idea at all, but I just wanted
to put a comment in here... I think Jen and Gabe are mounting a hostile
takeover of my superconscious... doh... =)

> I remember a comment that
> Mike Goldberg once told me about what he knew about vampires
> contradicting how I run AJ. While I don't have a problem with it, I also
> adopted his idea that, with years to plan, if AJ wanted something and was
> willing to be patient, he could do it. Benefits of being effectively
> immortal.... And AJs the only character, with the possible exception of
> a villan or two, I run who'd be interested in teaching them a lesson.
> He's been established a long time.


Oh fine. Just go and bring immortality into it. Sure! See if I care!
*mutter*



[NOTE: This entire post was tongue in cheek. I'm very tired right now. =)]


Evan Hughes
Honours Computer Science
http://chat.carleton.ca/~ehughes
Message no. 29
From: Brian Rogers <rogers@****.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: heheheh
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 16:31:45 -0600
Oh....Oh....Thank you. I needed this laugh!

My secretary thinks I am fucking insane now, but rolling around
on the floor in my office was just something I needed to do after reading
this. Excellent timing.

------- Forwarded Message

Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 11:27:03 +1300
From: Jaimie Nicholson <jaimie.nicholson@********.OTAGO.AC.NZ>
To: SHADOWTK@********.ITRIBE.NET
Subject: Face

*****PRIVATE: Kor
>>>>>[I kind of need my face back. Can it be done, and
when?]<<<<<
-- Ronin <18:14:25/02-18-58>

------- End of Forwarded Message

Further Reading

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