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Message no. 1
From: Evan Hughes <ehughes@****.carleton.ca>
Subject: How the hell does a deck work?
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 95 12:09:26 EST
In regards to my last post: a ghostline (shamelessly stolen from
Ghost in the Shell) is what a decker's jack would interact with. The
ghostline would be the decker's personality. When it loses cohesion, all
those other little parts of the decker's brain start showing through
(sub-conscious, id, ego, etc, depending on your psychological view of the
brain).

Web Page At:
http://chat.carleton.ca/~ehughes
(Signature Under Construction)
Message no. 2
From: Craigtw1@***.com
Subject: Re: How the hell does a deck work?
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 12:45:12 -0500
Evan...are you a psych/comp science major, or a jack of all trades?
Tom
Message no. 3
From: JOHN SPAIN <93135653@****.dcu.ie>
Subject: Re: How the hell does a deck work?
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 18:17:11 +0000 (GMT)
Ghost in the Shell, eh Evan? Not everyone here is an anime/manga fanatic, so
they wouldn't know that it is a comic by Masamune Shirow that has been recently
adapted into a kick ass animated movie (Hey, am I advertising here, quick,
mail a check to the EFF...)

BTW Eeevan, I've read the uncensoreed veersion. Wanna know what the three gals
were _really_ doing on the deck of that boat in ish. 2?? Ha ha ha ha

The free spirit stuff: I can deal with a spirit posting if he's posessing
someone. If that is the case, please carry on. But a spirit, normally, cannot
interact in any meaningful way with a 'puter. You'd know this, Evan, if you
had the Grimoire (Nyahahaha - Merciless or what, eh??)

Hey people - Just an acclaration. I posted Majikthize's last two messages
regarding the Death of Freddy Frypp, but they were, of course, written by
Jim. He just sent them to me for sneak preview.

What did you think of the second one? Where the actual fight with the marines
is described. I thought that was some powerful writing. (Come on people,
comment - Jim's just killed off a whole bunch of his characters. There's
an emotional commitment there, if anything. Don't just stand there!)

-J.S.
Message no. 4
From: Evan Hughes <ehughes@****.carleton.ca>
Subject: Re: How the hell does a deck work?
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 95 18:09:38 EST
Craigtw1@***.com writes:
> Evan...are you a psych/comp science major, or a jack of all trades?

Comp sci major (Software, of course), but as far as interests go, I'm
all over the spectrum. I would love to call myself a jack of all trades,
but I don't think I've absorbed enough knowledge for that one yet. Ask
again in five or six years. =)

Web Page At:
http://chat.carleton.ca/~ehughes
(Signature Under Construction)
Message no. 5
From: mneideng@****.caltech.edu (Mark L. Neidengard)
Subject: Re: How the hell does a deck work?
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 22:38:19 -0800 (PST)
According to Evan Hughes:
>
> In regards to my last post: a ghostline (shamelessly stolen from
> Ghost in the Shell) is what a decker's jack would interact with. The
> ghostline would be the decker's personality. When it loses cohesion, all
> those other little parts of the decker's brain start showing through
> (sub-conscious, id, ego, etc, depending on your psychological view of the
> brain).

Say what? The decker has a piece of electronics at his house that plugs
into his datajack and his net connection. This box is a fancy rendering
engine that translates the Matrix traffic into sensory signals of the format
the datajack uses, and vice versa. No need for psychobabble about parts of
the brain, or even parts of the soul. The Matrix is merely a Wide-Area
Network with a (compelling) standard usage model.
--
/!\/!ark /!\!eidengard, CS Major, VLSI. http://www.cacr.caltech.edu/~mneideng
"Fairy of sleep, controller of illusions" Operator/Jack-of-all-Trades, CACR
"Control the person for my own purpose." "Don't mess with the Dark
Elves!"
-Pirotess, _Record_of_Lodoss_War_ Shadowrunner and Anime Addict
Message no. 6
From: mneideng@****.caltech.edu (Mark L. Neidengard)
Subject: Re: How the hell does a deck work?
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 22:45:59 -0800 (PST)
According to JOHN SPAIN:
>
> Ghost in the Shell, eh Evan? Not everyone here is an anime/manga fanatic, so
> they wouldn't know that it is a comic by Masamune Shirow that has been recently
> adapted into a kick ass animated movie (Hey, am I advertising here, quick,
> mail a check to the EFF...)

I'm rather peeved that that hasn't come to a theater near me yet...

> BTW Eeevan, I've read the uncensoreed veersion. Wanna know what the three gals
> were _really_ doing on the deck of that boat in ish. 2?? Ha ha ha ha

Oh please. =) But tell me, do you know enough Japanese to understand the
original version?

> The free spirit stuff: I can deal with a spirit posting if he's posessing
> someone. If that is the case, please carry on. But a spirit, normally, cannot
> interact in any meaningful way with a 'puter. You'd know this, Evan, if you
> had the Grimoire (Nyahahaha - Merciless or what, eh??)

Really? Care to cite a reference there?
--
/!\/!ark /!\!eidengard, CS Major, VLSI. http://www.cacr.caltech.edu/~mneideng
"Fairy of sleep, controller of illusions" Operator/Jack-of-all-Trades, CACR
"Control the person for my own purpose." "Don't mess with the Dark
Elves!"
-Pirotess, _Record_of_Lodoss_War_ Shadowrunner and Anime Addict
Message no. 7
From: bd042@***.org (SCN User)
Subject: Re: How the hell does a deck work?
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 00:16:52 -0800
Hey! I want the uncensored version too!
--Moonwalker (drooling)
Message no. 8
From: Evan Hughes <ehughes@****.carleton.ca>
Subject: Re: How the hell does a deck work?
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 95 13:10:36 EST
Mark L. Neidengard writes:
> Say what? The decker has a piece of electronics at his house that plugs
> into his datajack and his net connection. This box is a fancy rendering
> engine that translates the Matrix traffic into sensory signals of the format
> the datajack uses, and vice versa. No need for psychobabble about parts of
> the brain, or even parts of the soul. The Matrix is merely a Wide-Area
> Network with a (compelling) standard usage model.

I'm not talking about the deck, I'm talking about the jack's interface
with the brain. I agree with you (almost) completely about the matrix as a
WAN, but what happens between the brain and the actual hardware is another
question. Datajacks are not just a hardwired immersion tank (ie, chop the
nerves going to the body, and replace them with connections to the outside
world, to, in effect, remove the body's sensations from the brain), they
connect directly with all levels of the brain, and are supposed to be able
to connect to the nonconscious parts of the brain. To do this, they must
be wired into the bits of the brain that the decker's conscience does not
attach to.


Web Page At:
http://chat.carleton.ca/~ehughes
(Signature Under Construction)
Message no. 9
From: Evan Hughes <ehughes@****.carleton.ca>
Subject: Re: How the hell does a deck work?
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 95 13:12:14 EST
Mark L. Neidengard writes:
> Say what? The decker has a piece of electronics at his house that plugs
> into his datajack and his net connection. This box is a fancy rendering
> engine that translates the Matrix traffic into sensory signals of the format
> the datajack uses, and vice versa. No need for psychobabble about parts of
> the brain, or even parts of the soul. The Matrix is merely a Wide-Area
> Network with a (compelling) standard usage model.

*grin* And another thing: in Srun, there is such a thing as the soul --
although what form it takes, I am uncertain. What is for sure however, is
that the idea of sentience is not based on a biological model (something
like the duel aspect theory for all you folks in philosophy).

Web Page At:
http://chat.carleton.ca/~ehughes
(Signature Under Construction)
Message no. 10
From: Evan Hughes <ehughes@****.carleton.ca>
Subject: Re: How the hell does a deck work?
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 95 13:17:18 EST
SCN User writes:
> Hey! I want the uncensored version too!
> --Moonwalker (drooling)


Go to the anime turnpike and hunt down a few of the Shirow fan pages.
Theres usually a copy or two on there...

(And remember kiddies: Theres a link to it from my homepage *shameless
plug* =)

Web Page At:
http://chat.carleton.ca/~ehughes
(Signature Under Construction)
Message no. 11
From: mneideng@****.caltech.edu (Mark L. Neidengard)
Subject: Re: How the hell does a deck work?
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 15:41:48 -0800 (PST)
According to Evan Hughes:
>
> Mark L. Neidengard writes:
> > Say what? The decker has a piece of electronics at his house that plugs
> > into his datajack and his net connection. This box is a fancy rendering
> > engine that translates the Matrix traffic into sensory signals of the format
> > the datajack uses, and vice versa. No need for psychobabble about parts of
> > the brain, or even parts of the soul. The Matrix is merely a Wide-Area
> > Network with a (compelling) standard usage model.
>
> *grin* And another thing: in Srun, there is such a thing as the soul --
> although what form it takes, I am uncertain. What is for sure however, is
> that the idea of sentience is not based on a biological model (something
> like the duel aspect theory for all you folks in philosophy).

Well, for understandable reasons they don't seem to have delved too deeply into
how the soul interacts with the meat body. But it is sufficient to know that
there _is_ a soul that can be separated from the body, and that the body can
act when "indwelt" with a soul.
--
/!\/!ark /!\!eidengard, CS Major, VLSI. http://www.cacr.caltech.edu/~mneideng
"Fairy of sleep, controller of illusions" Operator/Jack-of-all-Trades, CACR
"Control the person for my own purpose." "Don't mess with the Dark
Elves!"
-Pirotess, _Record_of_Lodoss_War_ Shadowrunner and Anime Addict
Message no. 12
From: mneideng@****.caltech.edu (Mark L. Neidengard)
Subject: Re: How the hell does a deck work?
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 15:43:51 -0800 (PST)
According to Evan Hughes:
>
> Mark L. Neidengard writes:
> > Say what? The decker has a piece of electronics at his house that plugs
> > into his datajack and his net connection. This box is a fancy rendering
> > engine that translates the Matrix traffic into sensory signals of the format
> > the datajack uses, and vice versa. No need for psychobabble about parts of
> > the brain, or even parts of the soul. The Matrix is merely a Wide-Area
> > Network with a (compelling) standard usage model.
>
> I'm not talking about the deck, I'm talking about the jack's interface
> with the brain. I agree with you (almost) completely about the matrix as a
> WAN, but what happens between the brain and the actual hardware is another
> question. Datajacks are not just a hardwired immersion tank (ie, chop the
> nerves going to the body, and replace them with connections to the outside
> world, to, in effect, remove the body's sensations from the brain), they
> connect directly with all levels of the brain, and are supposed to be able
> to connect to the nonconscious parts of the brain. To do this, they must
> be wired into the bits of the brain that the decker's conscience does not
> attach to.

I never claimed that the datajack attached merely to the sensory inputs =)
As for generating unconscious stimuli, or at least "subconscious" stimuli,
sensory feeds may be sufficient. There are a lot of things that your senses
are telling you that you aren't conscious of...
--
/!\/!ark /!\!eidengard, CS Major, VLSI. http://www.cacr.caltech.edu/~mneideng
"Fairy of sleep, controller of illusions" Operator/Jack-of-all-Trades, CACR
"Control the person for my own purpose." "Don't mess with the Dark
Elves!"
-Pirotess, _Record_of_Lodoss_War_ Shadowrunner and Anime Addict
Message no. 13
From: Evan Hughes <ehughes@****.carleton.ca>
Subject: Re: How the hell does a deck work?
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 95 21:19:56 EST
Mark L. Neidengard writes:
> I never claimed that the datajack attached merely to the sensory inputs =)
> As for generating unconscious stimuli, or at least "subconscious" stimuli,
> sensory feeds may be sufficient.

The impression I get, is that folks who have enough knowledge and
experience, can do some level of coding (or at least post-compile linking)
subconsciously through the deck. To do this, there would have to be some
type of link to the subconscious, allowing the decker manipulate
everything "physically" (ie, with his/her icon) and have something useful
pop out the other end. The ghostline would be the difference between these
two states, when it become incoherent, the deck would start receiving data
intended to be from one state from the other (ie subconscious from
conscious and subconscious from conscious).

> There are a lot of things that your senses are telling you that you
> aren't conscious of...

Thats probably true, but the problem is with getting stuff out of your
mind that _you_ arn't (fully) conscious of -- not only that, but only
getting the pertinent information (as opposed to your low level tummy
ache, or that you just got dumped, whatever). I'm assuming for reality's
sake the datajack does this (isn't it supposed to be a multipurpose
highspeed device? *hopes*).


Web Page At:
http://chat.carleton.ca/~ehughes
(Signature Under Construction)

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