Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: "Randy Nickel (General)" <a-randyn@*********.com>
Subject: Mechanics Question
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 11:13:16 -0800
I am new to this and have been wondering just how a run is done over
email/internet? Especially since we don't create stats (as far as I
know).

Randy
Message no. 2
From: mneideng@****.caltech.edu (Mark L. Neidengard)
Subject: Re: Mechanics Question
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 11:34:18 -0800 (PST)
According to Randy Nickel:
>
> I am new to this and have been wondering just how a run is done over
> email/internet? Especially since we don't create stats (as far as I
> know).

Well, the way it normally works is that all the characters are sort of
chatting about whatever on the system, intereacting, developing personal
liking and dislikings, while meanwhile some of the august Players have plots
in mind that cause events in the real world (which in turn causes various
characters to say or do various things). Also, various pieces of footage or
news reports about outside events can be insinuated by various media-aware
characters. When it comes to an actual "event", such as a conflict involving
multiple characters, an important speech, or whatever, generally one of the
Players will do a writeup, working out privately with other Players what
their characters will do in the situation.

As to the statistics question, I don't know how other people are handling it
but I find myself to be a real stickler for mechanics. I have my own internal
notion of what my characters stats, skills, and equipment are, and when I do
some sort of combat I try to run mechanics on the entire event as a sanity
check to keep the "cinematic" factor from getting too far out of control.
Essentially, I write a chronology of events that I think seems appropriately
dramatic and cool and then see if the mechanics support it. When using
other people's characters I often just interpolate from the description,
using Skill levels and whatnot that seem appropriate. About the highest
resolution I might need to hear is that someone is a Grade N Initiate, and
most often not even that.
--
/!\/!ark /!\!eidengard, CS Major, VLSI. http://www.cacr.caltech.edu/~mneideng
"Fairy of sleep, controller of illusions" Operator/Jack-of-all-Trades, CACR
"Control the person for my own purpose." "Don't mess with the Dark
Elves!"
-Pirotess, _Record_of_Lodoss_War_ Shadowrunner and Anime Addict
Message no. 3
From: winter@******.med.harvard.edu
Subject: Mechanics Question
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 14:30:18 -0500
Randy,
Please learn by watching, it is usually a good idea to lurk
for a while before jumping in to a new list headfirst. If
you want to talk to somebody about questions like these,
drop me a line at winter@******.med.harvard.edu, I would
love to discuss them (so we don't tie up every-one in a
conversation that might get on their nerves).

Mark/Brain: please understand that I do not think that I know all
about this list, I am just willing to help randy out without
bugging yall while I do it...


-winter
Message no. 4
From: Umfleet <gumfleet@***.edu>
Subject: Re: Mechanics Question
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 18:27:43 -0500 (EST)
Randy,
The stats are in your head man, it's like totally ritcheous. Oh, sorry,
my hippy side got the best of me. First you think of a character
(Warloc), then you get e REALLLLLLLLY demented idea (Muffin Man). Then
you start posting these REALLLLLY gross posts, and see what the others
think. Then when you get thier replys from it, you gather together anyone
whos up to your run and start asking them questions (whats your guy like,
whats his hobbies, ect.), then you just use your imagination and thats
that. It's like being a GM and a player too, sometimes your one,
sometimes your the other.
Gregg
Message no. 5
From: MAGECK <YBKB@*****.iup.edu>
Subject: Re: Mechanics Question
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 1996 15:25:01 -0500 (EST)
I myself created my entire characters from scratch before ever posting. I came
up with the stats, skill levels, initiate grade, contacts, what kinda equip
they have. I even created a background, both one for the entire list to know,
and a second one that varies slightly as to the real background of the
character. This way you can always drop those little surprises.
********************************************************************************
This message was brought to you by WOLFSDEN INDUSTRIES
a division of MAGECK ENTERPRISES
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Adam E. Buchanan | MAGECK
"One Dream One Soul One Prize One Goal" | YBKB@***.grove.iup.edu
The Howl of the wolf is a beautiful thing| GRAYWOLF
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 6
From: "Randy Nickel (General)" <a-randyn@*********.com>
Subject: RE: Mechanics Question
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 1996 14:47:22 -0800
OK. You say you chose initiate grade, which a starting character can not
do, how did you do that? I know this is just RPGing, and I have had it
explained that unless you wish to die (or say you are going to do
something stupid like say...umm, hunt metahumans and mages) that you
wont die.

But the character I have created for this is one based off my sit-down
game character that I play on the weekends and he is initiate grade 8,
and has Sorcery 10 and other cool stuff. Since there are dragons and
free spirits being played what is there to stop me from playing him as
he is other then the group going no, no, and really no.

Hmm, I just looked at what I wrote and noticed it sounds a little
whinney, but I just wanted some guidelines. So deep breath, OK. What I
wanted was to see if everyone is playing on the same level or just how
free form the set up is. Sorry if I sound a little...grippey, but as a
newbee these are questions I thought should be asked.

Randy

>----------
>From: MAGECK[SMTP:YBKB@*****.iup.edu]
>Sent: Thursday, March 28, 1996 12:25 PM
>To: plotd@********.itribe.net
>Subject: Re: Mechanics Question
>
>I myself created my entire characters from scratch before ever posting.
> I came
>up with the stats, skill levels, initiate grade, contacts, what kinda
>equip
>they have. I even created a background, both one for the entire list
>to know,
>and a second one that varies slightly as to the real background of the
>character. This way you can always drop those little surprises.
>************************************************************************
>********
>This message was brought to you by WOLFSDEN INDUSTRIES
>a division of MAGECK ENTERPRISES
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-------
>Adam E. Buchanan | MAGECK
>"One Dream One Soul One Prize One Goal" | YBKB@***.grove.iup.edu
>The Howl of the wolf is a beautiful thing| GRAYWOLF
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-------
>
Message no. 7
From: mneideng@****.caltech.edu (Mark L. Neidengard)
Subject: Re: Mechanics Question
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 1996 16:23:48 -0800 (PST)
According to Randy Nickel:
>
> OK. You say you chose initiate grade, which a starting character can not
> do, how did you do that? I know this is just RPGing, and I have had it
> explained that unless you wish to die (or say you are going to do
> something stupid like say...umm, hunt metahumans and mages) that you
> wont die.

Ok. One thing to understand is that not all the characters introduced onto
this list are "starting PC" level. There are people running things as
far-out as free spirits and dragons, though these tend to stay in the
background and not _do_ that much directly. By observation, it looks like
we've got everything from "starting" PC's to Resources-AA "NPC-level"
characters floating around.

> But the character I have created for this is one based off my sit-down
> game character that I play on the weekends and he is initiate grade 8,
> and has Sorcery 10 and other cool stuff. Since there are dragons and
> free spirits being played what is there to stop me from playing him as
> he is other then the group going no, no, and really no.

To be quite honest, such a character would not be the most powerful I've
seen the stats for on this group. However, I would urge you to devote a lot
of thought to what such a character's history is before positing them at that
level of power. In most campaigns, attaining Initiate Grade 8 would be the
work of a _lot_ of role-playing; in this forum, I suppose it's the work of
a (hopefully) long and interesting character history. In other words, go
on instinct and try to get a feel for what the other characters on the
list are like and scale your own character appropriately.
--
/!\/!ark /!\!eidengard, CS Major, VLSI. http://www.cacr.caltech.edu/~mneideng
"Fairy of sleep, controller of illusions" Operator/Jack-of-all-Trades, CACR
"Control the person for my own purpose." "Don't mess with the Dark
Elves!"
-Pirotess, _Record_of_Lodoss_War_ Shadowrunner and Anime Addict
Message no. 8
From: "Randy Nickel (General)" <a-randyn@*********.com>
Subject: RE: Mechanics Question
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 1996 16:50:41 -0800
I understand. No biggey just when you hear that there are dragons and
free spirits when the game I run, while not tame by any means, would
not not have PCs like that. I had assumed that they were PCs here also.

Warloc has a very long and in depth history, but here I intend to play
him as a newbee.

One last thing then. How do we raise skills, attributes, and initiate
grades?

Randy
Message no. 9
From: justinf@****.caltech.edu (Justin Fang)
Subject: Re: Mechanics Question
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 1996 16:59:51 -0800 (PST)
> OK. You say you chose initiate grade, which a starting character can not
> do, how did you do that? I know this is just RPGing, and I have had it
> explained that unless you wish to die (or say you are going to do
> something stupid like say...umm, hunt metahumans and mages) that you
> wont die.

It's not exactly RPGing. It's more like a "shared storytelling enviroment."
Thre's no one person "in charge," the way there's a GM in a sit-down face-to-
face RPG (well, there are the Great and Powerful List Administrators, but
that's not quite the same.) The best way to figure out how it works is to
just watch for a while. You can read the back logs, too.

> But the character I have created for this is one based off my sit-down
> game character that I play on the weekends and he is initiate grade 8,
> and has Sorcery 10 and other cool stuff. Since there are dragons and
> free spirits being played what is there to stop me from playing him as
> he is other then the group going no, no, and really no.

The list is consensus-based, so yes, there isn't really anything to stop you
from doing so other than the rest of the list objecting. But, keep in mind
that no-one actually rolls dice. While you should have a good idea of what
your character can and can't do, exact game statistics aren't necessary.
There's really no point in giving a character high stats for the sake of
giving him high stats.

> Hmm, I just looked at what I wrote and noticed it sounds a little
> whinney, but I just wanted some guidelines. So deep breath, OK. What I
> wanted was to see if everyone is playing on the same level or just how
> free form the set up is. Sorry if I sound a little...grippey, but as a
> newbee these are questions I thought should be asked.

It's fairly free-form. Shadowtk uses the official FASA Shadowrun world
history and game rules, so that there's a "common standard" that everyone
can agree on for what's happened in the past and what's possible to happen.
(Of course, there are still disagreements about interpretations of the
above...) This is also done so that new people can come on without having
to learn a whole new bunch of "house rules." You also can't change big
pieces of the official game setting: noone can destroy Aztechnology, for
instance, because then everyone who comes on in the future will have to
have it explained to them why it doesn't exist. (You can destroy a
megacorp you've made yourself, though. Heh heh heh...)

> Randy
Message no. 10
From: mneideng@****.caltech.edu (Mark L. Neidengard)
Subject: Re: Mechanics Question
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 1996 17:04:11 -0800 (PST)
According to Randy Nickel:
>
> I understand. No biggey just when you hear that there are dragons and
> free spirits when the game I run, while not tame by any means, would
> not not have PCs like that. I had assumed that they were PCs here also.
>
> Warloc has a very long and in depth history, but here I intend to play
> him as a newbee.
>
> One last thing then. How do we raise skills, attributes, and initiate
> grades?

There's no formal method for doing so: only you will really know what your
characters' stats are supposed to be anyway unless you specifically tell
others. =) Probably the thing to do is to see what happens in the role-playing
of characters interacting and doing things. When you feel comfortable with
"upgrading" your characters, feel free to do so. We've certainly had
several instances of magical characters going "away" for a while following some
momentous event or other, during which time they Initiated. Plus, characters
can get cyberware installed, hit the gym, hit the university, and all that stuff
without requiring list approval. =)

I think the idea in this forum is to have "diceless" role-playing as much as
possible, and use the mechanics just as a sanity check to make sure everyone
here is "playing" the same game. I found that the only time the mechanics were
really important was when something outrageous was going to happen (e.g. the
Wraith incident), when I found it useful to see exactly how powerful the
Wraith should be in comparison to those hunting it. =)
--
/!\/!ark /!\!eidengard, CS Major, VLSI. http://www.cacr.caltech.edu/~mneideng
"Fairy of sleep, controller of illusions" Operator/Jack-of-all-Trades, CACR
"Control the person for my own purpose." "Don't mess with the Dark
Elves!"
-Pirotess, _Record_of_Lodoss_War_ Shadowrunner and Anime Addict
Message no. 11
From: justinf@****.caltech.edu (Justin Fang)
Subject: Re: Mechanics Question
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 1996 17:05:33 -0800 (PST)
> One last thing then. How do we raise skills, attributes, and initiate
> grades?

You still don't quite understand. Read my other message for more details,
but briefly, you raise (and lower) them whenever you feel it's appropriate.
There's no one actually handing out karma. If he spends months and months
practicing the harmonica, then you can give him an additional point of
harmonica skill if you like.

> Randy

Justin Fang (justinf@****.caltech.edu)
This space intentionally left blank.
Message no. 12
From: "Randy Nickel (General)" <a-randyn@*********.com>
Subject: RE: Mechanics Question
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 1996 17:17:05 -0800
You still don't quite understand. Read my other message for more
details,
but briefly, you raise (and lower) them whenever you feel it's
appropriate.
There's no one actually handing out karma. If he spends months and
months
practicing the harmonica, then you can give him an additional point of
harmonica skill if you like.

Sorry. I am just not used to anything that free form. I'm used to rules
and stuff, at least guidelines or something. So if it seems like I'm
not getting it it's just because every game I have ever been in such
things are closely monitored. My GM keeps a list of where we spend
Nuyen and Karma. We have to submit all that throught him.

So this type of RPG is a little...different.

Randy
Message no. 13
From: NIGHTFOX <DJWA@******.UCC.NAU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Mechanics Question
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 1996 18:22:45 -0700 (MST)
>OK. You say you chose initiate grade, which a starting character can not
>do, how did you do that? I know this is just RPGing, and I have had it
>explained that unless you wish to die (or say you are going to do
>something stupid like say...umm, hunt metahumans and mages) that you
>wont die.

Ok - first of I can't remember whether Adam started off streetwolf as an
initiate or not. I was there when he introduced the character (heck, I got him
into shadowrun.), but its been a long time. The idea was that while he was good
at certain things, (like fire) he was pretty lacking in a lot of areas.
In fact - It really didn't effect to much on the board whether he was an
initiate or not. What mattered was that his character could interact in
situations with other people on the same level.

>But the character I have created for this is one based off my sit-down
>game character that I play on the weekends and he is initiate grade 8,
>and has Sorcery 10 and other cool stuff. Since there are dragons and
>free spirits being played what is there to stop me from playing him as
>he is other then the group going no, no, and really no.

hmm - maybe I should keep a copy of this explanation around. I've posted
something akin to it before.


The Sand Box.

This list is a lot like a sand box with other kids in it. Yes you can come in
as a big kid and declare that your older than the other kids, but unlike a sand
box - they can ignore you. The best bet is to just enter the sand box with a
CHARACTER - don't try to always define his power level, its more important how
he interacts with the other people.

CRUSH - described as the Biggest and Strongest troll you'll probably even meet
is most well known for also being the least intelligent. CRUSH was always one
the favorite characters of a lot of list members. He hardly ever said bad
things about people and atleast 2-3 of my stories around him (and talky) where
nominated for awards (when we did them that one time). People enjoyed reading
his posts and they didn't have to worry about one of those macho battles of "my
characters better than yours" because it really didn't matter. He made things
fun for other people, and thats what we are here for - to have.
(though some people have complained that a few of my stories cause accessive
oxygen deprevation)

Stats are just a basis for how you would like people to interact with your
character - they really don't effect the stories that much. What does effect
things is how your character is portrayed and how he interacts with people.
Any can have stats, not all people can have character.

Try to make it so that you can interact with people.
Some characters you introduce may never find their nitch - others, ones you
never thought that they would become popular (or infamous) will do so.
Just try to have fun and let other people have fun.
Powerful characters come and go, it the fun ones we remember.
Sometimes power is a detriment - you will find that you can do everything in an
adventure and you really don't need the other people. What fun is there in
that?
Plus - your character will never be as accurately described in the big
adventures as you would like unless you write them.


Nightfox
Message no. 14
From: NIGHTFOX <DJWA@******.UCC.NAU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Mechanics Question
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 1996 18:31:36 -0700 (MST)
>One last thing then. How do we raise skills, attributes, and initiate
>grades?

Just mention it in passing if it really matters.
If he appears in a story line and does certain things, then the next story he's
in you might have the writer mention that he seems (Faster, stronger etc) than
before.

I used to do this with CRUSH every so often - He kept on getting taller.
And eating more too (like the time he hunted down the behemoth for supper - we
had enough left over to have a few behemoth burgers for the wedding a month
latter).

Nightfox
Message no. 15
From: Craigtw1@***.com
Subject: Re: Mechanics Question
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 12:07:05 -0500
As everything is on herer, what you do with your character is YOUR
business...just so long as you don't kill or destroy other people's
corps/characters without permission. You decide if they would have gained
enough karma to initiate or advance their skills...as stats don't mean a damn
thing.
Tom
Message no. 16
From: Craigtw1@***.com
Subject: Re: Mechanics Question
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 12:07:08 -0500
And then CRUSH and THE Nexus ate them all at the wedding, if I remember
correctly...<chuckle>
Tom

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Mechanics Question, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!