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From:	Jaimie Nicholson <jaimie.nicholson@********.OTAGO.AC.NZ>
Subject:	Metaphysics
Date:	Mon, 25 May 1998 15:32:03 +1200

Message no. 1 Imagine, if you will, the astral plane... a whole lot of energy sloshing
around randomly, spirits forming, etc... does it not seem possible that
some of this energy would by chance give rise to an entity not unlike a
free spirit, but immensely more powerful - something that could be mistaken
for a God by ignorant metahumanity? This is my idea of what has happened to
Faerie to give her the notion that she serves a Goddess of some sort. The
free spirit that was accidently birthed has such power that Faerie cannot
tell the difference between it and a Goddess. It lives in a particular
corner of the metaplanes, and has sufficient power to keep out any unwanted
visitors. For reasons of its own, it has chosen to have a few metahuman
servants to kill those who it wants killed. Faerie is one of these
servants, as has been hinted at in the past. If this is accepted as a
possiblity by the list, then I'll develop it further; if the list as a
whole dislikes the idea, then Faerie's Goddess can be explained away as the
delusion of her insane mind.

PLAYTHING OF A CRUEL GOD
JAIMIE NICHOLSON

From:	BigDaddy <bigdaddy@*****.COM>
Subject:	Re: Metaphysics
Date:	Mon, 25 May 1998 00:08:54 -0400

Message no. 2 I rather like the whole idea of some insane spirit trying to fullfill
its needs through followers. Much like my fav bug spirits. Is the list
of metahumans full or is there need for more?

--
Napalm Sticks to Kidz,
BigDaddy

From:	"Mark L. Neidengard" <mneideng@****.CALTECH.EDU>
Subject:	Re: Metaphysics
Date:	Sun, 24 May 1998 23:09:41 -0700

Message no. 3 According to Jaimie Nicholson:
>Imagine, if you will, the astral plane... a whole lot of energy sloshing
>around randomly, spirits forming, etc... does it not seem possible that
>some of this energy would by chance give rise to an entity not unlike a
>free spirit, but immensely more powerful - something that could be mistaken
>for a God by ignorant metahumanity?

There is no need to postulate some new kind of being, outside the game
mechanics. Free Spirits have no upper bound on their powers. Even a being
with _minimal_ supernatural abilities might be worshipped as a God by ignorant
tribesmen under the right circumstances. To the trained eye of a mage, it
would merely take a higher powered entity to achieve the same degree of awe.
Read the logs for the Redmond Riots (caused by a clash between two Force 12
Free Spirit-type beings) and see if that wouldn't seem like at least
"demi-"god-like wrath. Just tack on some appropriate number of extra Force
points and you have as much "divine" power as you want.

>This is my idea of what has happened to
>Faerie to give her the notion that she serves a Goddess of some sort. The
>free spirit that was accidently birthed has such power that Faerie cannot
>tell the difference between it and a Goddess. It lives in a particular
>corner of the metaplanes, and has sufficient power to keep out any unwanted
>visitors. For reasons of its own, it has chosen to have a few metahuman
>servants to kill those who it wants killed. Faerie is one of these
>servants, as has been hinted at in the past. If this is accepted as a
>possiblity by the list, then I'll develop it further; if the list as a
>whole dislikes the idea, then Faerie's Goddess can be explained away as the
>delusion of her insane mind.

I have no particular problems with entities of immense power; I have a few in
mind myself. All I really care is that such a being not unduly imbalance the
world model or confer some sort of _unbeatable_ advantage on your characters.
The existence of the being itself should, probably, stay in the background
just for reasons of social harmony. =)
--
/!\/!ark /!\!eidengard, CS Grad, VLSI http://www.cacr.caltech.edu/~mneideng
"Fairy of sleep, controller of illusions" Operator/Jack-of-all-Trades, CACR
"Control the person for my own purpose." "Don't mess with the Dark
Elves!"
-Pirotess, _Record_of_Lodoss_War_ Shadowrunner and Anime Addict

From:	Jaimie Nicholson <jaimie.nicholson@********.OTAGO.AC.NZ>
Subject:	Re: Metaphysics
Date:	Tue, 26 May 1998 11:35:43 +1200

Message no. 4 Mark N:

>There is no need to postulate some new kind of being, outside the game
>mechanics. Free Spirits have no upper bound on their powers. Even a being
>with _minimal_ supernatural abilities might be worshipped as a God by ignorant
>tribesmen under the right circumstances. To the trained eye of a mage, it
>would merely take a higher powered entity to achieve the same degree of awe.

If Faerie recognises that She's a free spirit, that might detract from the
Goddesly image, but yeah, that's what I meant, really. The Goddess is in
fact a free spirit, just a really really powerful one.

>I have no particular problems with entities of immense power; I have a few in
>mind myself. All I really care is that such a being not unduly imbalance the
>world model

She can't leave her domain in the metaplanes, so She won't be having any
direct effect.

>or confer some sort of _unbeatable_ advantage on your characters.
>The existence of the being itself should, probably, stay in the background
>just for reasons of social harmony. =)

Her existence will never be fully confirmed, I suppose... that Faerie
thinks She's a Goddess is about as far as it'll go.

Bigdaddy:

>I rather like the whole idea of some insane spirit trying to fullfill
>its needs through followers. Much like my fav bug spirits. Is the list
>of metahumans full or is there need for more?

It's a fairly exclusive club, this Servants of the Goddess.

PLAYTHING OF A CRUEL GOD
JAIMIE NICHOLSON

From:	Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject:	Re: Metaphysics
Date:	Tue, 26 May 1998 01:53:17 +0100

Message no. 5 In article <v01540b00b18e952dffe0@[139.80.126.72]>, Jaimie Nicholson
<jaimie.nicholson@********.OTAGO.AC.NZ> writes
>Imagine, if you will, the astral plane... a whole lot of energy sloshing
>around randomly, spirits forming, etc... does it not seem possible that
>some of this energy would by chance give rise to an entity not unlike a
>free spirit, but immensely more powerful - something that could be mistaken
>for a God by ignorant metahumanity?

I for one would agree with you, but with a proviso. The chances of
encountering a god like being in Astral space would need to be
incredibly remote, otherwise it's going to happen all too often in the
later stages of the Mana rise, and all too often on the list.
Admittedly even a weak spirit would appear to be a god in the eyes of an
ignorant humanity, but Faerie isn't that ignorant, and the greater the
power of the witnessing mage, the greater the power of the spirit that
impresses them.

However, my own idea is that there are separate metaplanes related to
and linked to the Astral, that contain exactly such beings. The idea
being that spirits from these planes would take on the forms that the
caster imagines they would be. Demonic spirits are no more demonic than
a shadow, but their image is formed from the belief of the
caster/summoner.

If Faerie was to encounter a being similar to that on a different meta
plane, then I would say fine. But in standard Astral space? I'd urge
caution, though I have no real objection.

>tell the difference between it and a Goddess. It lives in a particular
>corner of the metaplanes,

Ah, sorry, ignore above comment. I had assumed you meant standard
space, but you've gone off into a metaplane.

>and has sufficient power to keep out any unwanted
>visitors. For reasons of its own, it has chosen to have a few metahuman
>servants to kill those who it wants killed.

I'm curious to know why a spirit would want people killed, but I guess
I'll find that out through the story. :)

>Faerie is one of these
>servants, as has been hinted at in the past. If this is accepted as a
>possiblity by the list, then I'll develop it further; if the list as a
>whole dislikes the idea, then Faerie's Goddess can be explained away as the
>delusion of her insane mind.

I don't have a problem with it, but that's possibly because my view of
the Astral and magic in general is very different to most people. The
Astral planes in my games occupy many different levels and realms.
Where it is possible for a mage to travel between those realms
encountering a wide variety of strangeness. :)

I think you will need to be careful though to prevent stepping on toes
with this. But basically, as far as I'm concerned, go for it. I just
hope it doesn't set a precedent for super powerful astral entities to
litter the list with as objects and bestest buddies. That's about my
only fear really, there are a surprising amount of - shall we say
"companions" for mages on the list already, and this might be
interpreted by someone that they can go a little nuts with it. A bit
like the Otaku/I'm an immortal elf/demi god/ruling prince attitude that
is displayed on the char list.

--
Avenger

From:	Jaimie Nicholson <jaimie.nicholson@********.OTAGO.AC.NZ>
Subject:	Re: Metaphysics
Date:	Tue, 26 May 1998 13:22:04 +1200

Message no. 6 >I for one would agree with you, but with a proviso. The chances of
>encountering a god like being in Astral space would need to be
>incredibly remote,

I figure the Goddess found Faerie, not vice versa.

>I'm curious to know why a spirit would want people killed, but I guess
>I'll find that out through the story. :)

Maybe, maybe not. Why must a spirit have reasons?

>I just
>hope it doesn't set a precedent for super powerful astral entities to
>litter the list with as objects and bestest buddies.

The Goddess isn't a buddy, she's a pain in the neck. She's damn near ruined
Faerie's life once already, and she'll be doing it again soon. She doesn't
help with the tasks She gives out, nor does She grant any sort of powers to
Her servants. If She did, then IO agree that that would be a bit too much
to accept.

PLAYTHING OF A CRUEL GOD
JAIMIE NICHOLSON

From:	Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject:	Re: Metaphysics
Date:	Tue, 26 May 1998 02:33:26 +0100

Message no. 7 In article <v01540b00b18fc5ec525b@[139.80.126.76]>, Jaimie Nicholson
<jaimie.nicholson@********.OTAGO.AC.NZ> writes
>>I for one would agree with you, but with a proviso. The chances of
>>encountering a god like being in Astral space would need to be
>>incredibly remote,
>
>I figure the Goddess found Faerie, not vice versa.

Fair enough, I can deal with that. :) One of my players suffered a
similar fate a couple of years ago as a result of a spirit finding
him... <smirk>

>>I'm curious to know why a spirit would want people killed, but I guess
>>I'll find that out through the story. :)
>
>Maybe, maybe not. Why must a spirit have reasons?

No reason other than my own, incredibly structured ordered and logical
life demands reasons for everything. Or something like that, sort of...

;-P

>>I just
>>hope it doesn't set a precedent for super powerful astral entities to
>>litter the list with as objects and bestest buddies.
>
>The Goddess isn't a buddy, she's a pain in the neck. She's damn near ruined
>Faerie's life once already, and she'll be doing it again soon. She doesn't
>help with the tasks She gives out, nor does She grant any sort of powers to
>Her servants. If She did, then IO agree that that would be a bit too much
>to accept.

OK. In that case Jamie, go right ahead. No further comments are going
to be forthcoming from me. It all sounds fine.

--
Avenger

From:	Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject:	Re: Metaphysics
Date:	Tue, 26 May 1998 13:27:54 -0400

Message no. 8 <snipped "Goddess" free spirit concept>

As others have noted, this general idea can be done. The big question is
why is Faerie unable to recognize this free spirit for what it is, a spirit
and not a Goddess?

I strongly suspect that this is something that would be almost entirely
mental. Something about this Goddess just "clicks" with some disturbed
part of Faerie's mind, making her mentally unable to recognize this spirit
as anything but a goddess. Maybe the free spirit saw that potential and
used things like Mind Probe and Control Thoughts to really play it up.

But the overall concept seems mostly sound. Just need to make sure it's
really well thought out.

Erik J.

"Oh my God, they killed Dunkelzahn! You bastards!!!"

From:	Kristling Ravenwing <kristling@*******.CROSSWINDS.NET>
Subject:	Re: Metaphysics
Date:	Tue, 26 May 1998 14:55:54 -0400

Message no. 9 > From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
> To: PLOTD@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: Metaphysics
> Date: Tuesday, May 26, 1998 1:27 PM
>
> <snipped "Goddess" free spirit concept>
>
> As others have noted, this general idea can be done. The big question is
> why is Faerie unable to recognize this free spirit for what it is, a spirit
> and not a Goddess?
>
> I strongly suspect that this is something that would be almost entirely
> mental. Something about this Goddess just "clicks" with some disturbed
> part of Faerie's mind, making her mentally unable to recognize this spirit
> as anything but a goddess. Maybe the free spirit saw that potential and
> used things like Mind Probe and Control Thoughts to really play it up.
>
> But the overall concept seems mostly sound. Just need to make sure it's
> really well thought out.
>
Good thought, Erik. I was wondering this myself.

From:	Jaimie Nicholson <jaimie.nicholson@********.OTAGO.AC.NZ>
Subject:	Re: Metaphysics
Date:	Wed, 27 May 1998 12:34:44 +1200

Message no. 10 ><snipped "Goddess" free spirit concept>
>
>As others have noted, this general idea can be done. The big question is
>why is Faerie unable to recognize this free spirit for what it is, a spirit
>and not a Goddess?
>
>I strongly suspect that this is something that would be almost entirely
>mental. Something about this Goddess just "clicks" with some disturbed
>part of Faerie's mind, making her mentally unable to recognize this spirit
>as anything but a goddess. Maybe the free spirit saw that potential and
>used things like Mind Probe and Control Thoughts to really play it up.

All possible... also, when Faerie first met the Godddess, she didn't know
much about free spirits, and she still doesn't. She has faith, I suppose (a
mindset I can't imagine, but lots of people probably can), and any
suggestion made to Faerie that the Goddess is "only" a free spirit will
probably result in violence.

PLAYTHING OF A CRUEL GOD
JAIMIE NICHOLSON

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