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Message no. 1
From: Jeffrey Mach <mach@****.CALTECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: new character & NEW: magic question
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 11:47:19 -0700
So, is that it? One person asks a question and no more discussion? I
would like to get going on his introduction, but I figure I can leave the
thing open for a few more days to allow the whole week to finish out.

In other words, I take it there are no major problems/questions on me
bringing Michael in?

Now: Two new questions:

Does designing a Manipulation spell necessitate using only one
type--Control, Transformation, Telekinetic--of manipulation? Quite a
while ago, someone asked if their character could have wings. This
recently got me thinking. (I know, uh-oh, Jeff's thinking again!)

While the design of a "Flight" spell is more or less an extention of the
Levitate Person spell, with the difference that, if sustained, the person
continues to move at a certain rate, as opposed to stopping at the limit
of the spell's range. This is obviously a telekinetic manipulation. But,
what if one wanted wings as an added effect? Perhaps to serve as control
surfaces or just for looks, since a man-sized pair of wings couldn't hold
up a man-massed object. This is a transformation manipulation. Can one mix
the two sub-types of magic in one spell? I have doubts which is why I
want to ask everybody's opinion. While it may be cool, I will differ to a
strong NIMGU (Not In My Game Universe) vote.



The second question is in regards to Ally spirits. As sort of a
Chicken-or-egg question: Does the ally spirit exist in one form or
another before the conjurer summons it? While the Grimoire II says:

"Each ally is unique, created according to a special formula using the
rituals of Conjuring Skill. The magician gives life to the spirit by
giving it 1 point of his own Magic Attribute."

That and the fact that the magician decides the characteristics of the
ally might lead you to think that the spirit is an extention of the
conjurer.

BUT, then it says that as they become more powerful, they become more
willful and may try to kill their masters. That and the sentence:

"Shamans draw their allies from a shamanic metaplane and mages from a
hermetic metaplane."

This seems to indicate something different. How can something that
doesn't exist yet be "drawn" from anywhere? And why would something tha
started out as a piece of yourself want to hurt you? (Would an element of
patri-/matricide be even thinkable?) The best way I can see rectifying
this is that there is a spirit out there somewhere first, but then during
the ally ritual, the spirit is conjured and transformed (empowered?) into
a new form as specified by the ally formula and bound into the new form
much like the ally power of binding it into a familiar animal.

Do people agree with this, or are there other opinions?

--The troublemaker

Jeff
Message no. 2
From: Jaimie Nicholson <jaimie.nicholson@********.OTAGO.AC.NZ>
Subject: Re: new character & NEW: magic question
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 10:35:23 +1100
>So, is that it? One person asks a question and no more discussion? I
>would like to get going on his introduction, but I figure I can leave the
>thing open for a few more days to allow the whole week to finish out.

Too busy arguing the IE/ages of mana question.

>The second question is in regards to Ally spirits. As sort of a
>Chicken-or-egg question: Does the ally spirit exist in one form or
>another before the conjurer summons it? While the Grimoire II says:

I'd say that no, it doesn't exist before the magician creates it.

>BUT, then it says that as they become more powerful, they become more
>willful and may try to kill their masters.

Once created, they may become independant,

>That and the sentence:
>
>"Shamans draw their allies from a shamanic metaplane and mages from a
>hermetic metaplane."

I would suggest that that is the source of mana for the ally. You may
remember me ranting last year about the three requirements for conjuring,
being the template (from the mage's mind), the mana source
(metaplanes/astral plane), and something else I forget just now. The
metaplanes in this case are the source of mana.

>This seems to indicate something different. How can something that
>doesn't exist yet be "drawn" from anywhere?

The mana is drawn from there, is what I think they mean.

>And why would something tha
>started out as a piece of yourself want to hurt you? (Would an element of
>patri-/matricide be even thinkable?)

Adolescent rebellion, perhaps.

PLAYTHING OF A CRUEL GOD
JAIMIE NICHOLSON
Message no. 3
From: Justin Fang <justinf@****.CALTECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: new character & NEW: magic question
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 17:04:05 -0700
Jeffrey Mach wrote:
>This is obviously a telekinetic manipulation. But, what if one wanted
>wings as an added effect? Perhaps to serve as control surfaces or just
>for looks, since a man-sized pair of wings couldn't hold up a man-massed
>object. This is a transformation manipulation. Can one mix the two
>sub-types of magic in one spell? I have doubts which is why I want to ask
>everybody's opinion.

Just to make things even more complicated, what if the wings are an
illusion? If it's just for "coolness" effect, I'd be tempted to allow it
(with maybe a slight penalty to the drain), but other's might disagree.

>The second question is in regards to Ally spirits. As sort of a
>Chicken-or-egg question: Does the ally spirit exist in one form or
>another before the conjurer summons it? While the Grimoire II says:

I think the answer is similar to the related question, does an elemental
or nature spirit exist before a summoner conjures it? I don't know if
there's an offical answer to that one, but my guess is that when you
conjure an ordinary (non-free, non-ally) spirit, you are taking a small
piece of... something (maybe a sort of uber-spirit, maybe the metaplane
itself) and giving it a bit of individuality. So ordinary spirits, at
least, exist before they're summoned but not really as independent
entities. I think.

>This seems to indicate something different. How can something that
>doesn't exist yet be "drawn" from anywhere? And why would something tha
>started out as a piece of yourself want to hurt you? (Would an element of
>patri-/matricide be even thinkable?) The best way I can see rectifying
>this is that there is a spirit out there somewhere first, but then during
>the ally ritual, the spirit is conjured and transformed (empowered?) into
>a new form as specified by the ally formula and bound into the new form
>much like the ally power of binding it into a familiar animal.

>Do people agree with this, or are there other opinions?

Hmm. It's a reasonable interpretation. I might look at it slightly
differently, though. I think that when you conjure an ally, you are taking
a ordinary spirit, shaping it into the form specified by the formula, and
giving it what is basically a piece of your "soul" so that it becomes an
sentient entity.

Also, there doesn't have to be one right answer. Maybe one ally will
remember an existence before becomeing an ally and another won't.

Why do they sometimes rebel? I think Jaimie was right, actually, they
rebel for basically the same reasons that children do when they grow up
and become teenagers and then young adults. As they grow more powerful,
their sense of selfhood and will and all that increase, and if
ill-treated, or maybe even just "smothered", ("You never let me go out
with my friends!" :) :) their desire for independence may grow too.

--
Justin Fang (justinf@****.caltech.edu)
This space intentionally left blank.

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