| From: | Jeffrey Jacob Mach <mach@****.CALTECH.EDU> |
|---|---|
| Subject: | Obscenity debate... |
| Date: | Mon, 14 Oct 1996 14:46:42 -0700 |
On Sun, 13 Oct 1996, Mark L. Neidengard wrote:
> According to Mike Broadwater:
> >
> >You're really off base here. 'Frag', 'drek' and 'slitch' are all considered
> >vulgarity's in the SR world. 'Fuck' and 'shit' are considered something
> >said by old timers who need to hang up there gun belts. To qoute one of the
> >novels,
> >
> >"Get the fuck out of my apartment."
> >"How quaint. You said 'fuck'."
> >"How quaint. You formed a complete sentence. Get the fuck out of my
> >apartment."
> >
> >So even though novels aren't canon, they are a good source of flavor and how
> >things work in the SR world. If your character says swears up a blue
> >streak, and does it using vulgaraties of our time, then he'd better have a
> >good reason, because he's speaking anachronistically.
>
> Really? I _don't_ see anywhere in the canon that this is stated, and I await
> a good linguistic reason why common usage would drift that much. Personally,
> I think it's clear that FASA was pussyfooting around the implications of the
> "gritty" world view they created and were trying to write sourcebooks that
> were marginally more acceptable to the parents of all thsoe eager young gamers
> out there.
>
> In short, I see no reason why contemporary profanity ("fuck" etc.) should
be
> regarded as an anachronism, and intend to post accordingly. =)
Okay, so I was hardly recommending all characters swear up a blue streak.
However I was just saying that I was getting tired of people use "frag" in
every other sentence. Just trying to spur a little creativity in
expression. As for the people whose poor accounts exist within certain
totalitarian regiems that exist within cyberspace, my condolances. On my
part, I will at least be sure that my writing, if it is to contain any
obscentities, will at least be appropriate to scene and context, I could
only ask others to do the same.
As for anachronism, Mike, do you have any idea how old the word "fuck" is?
It may have had slight alterations in usage, but it has been in the vulgar
argot of the English language since at least the Renaissance. And shit(e)
has been around since before Chaucer(>600yrs). Its modern usage has been
traced from the old English: shit n [(assumed) ME, fr. OE scite; akin to
OE -scitan to defecate] (ca. 1585)--Merriam-Webster's Collegiate
Dictionary 10th Ed.
In other languages, both are probably much older in their use as
obscenities, since I figure even the Babalonians could have had a shitty
day. So, no, I really don't think another 61 years will render them
"quaint" or "anachronistic." Certainly usage, style, and connotations
may
change slightly in the next 61 years, but most of the basics will probably
stand the test of time as they have for the past centuries, as long as
equating women with dogs, defecation, and premarital sex and its progeny
are looked down upon. And note: "(Christ)'s blood!" an oath popular
before King Henry still lives on in the infamous "Bloody _____!" that
those under the queen still use with pride today. For a bit of
ammusement, people should check out Shakespeare for a lesson on how to
cuss someone out creatively and with style.
I do agree that new ones will be invented; my most rescent aquisition to
my vulgarities is the word "wank." (Ex.> He's a wanker. This really
wanks.) And "frag" is a word I occasionally use myself since I saw Lobo
oh so many years ago. I think most of the new ones will probably be along
the lines of oaths or somesuch. A less than together shaman who invokes
the name of his totem in his gusto might be hilarious if done right:
(imagine some old Cajun) "Bai thuh 'Gator's Teeth! That there's one mean
momma..."
I figure what you write, try to sound as natural as possible. The main
reason I generally avoid the words that FASA invented is for clarity. I
could (if I knew the language well enough) make posts in Japanese or
Sparathiel, but for clarity of the readers, everything appears in English
or will be specifically denoted as a translation from another language
into English. So, since the nuances of FASA-speak allude me (and from
what poor writing in the "canon" novels that I have seen, I don't intend
on doing research) I will use what language seems appropriate to convey
the meanings and nuances. To be perfectly honest, I don't know of one
character in my cadre that has even spoken one ill word, but I don't have
time to research this either.
--My two (more) yen
Jeff
