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Message no. 1
From: Jeffrey Mach <mach@****.CALTECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Oh great (ODIN like)
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 10:19:01 -0700
On Fri, 12 Jun 1998, Team ODIN wrote:

> Oh... and a final note: I am NO mage! Sorry, but I am somewhat touchy
> about that, my friends even made a pin for me with that text. Not all
> of us who know the arcane arts, sling mojo, zap spells, conjure, summon,
> or call spitits are "mages".
> Mages are hermetical magicians, people who think they can force the art
> in formulas, bring down live to a simple equitation. I am not. I am a
> shaman, and I follow Wolf. Just for your information :-) ]<<<<<
> -- Canis <03:39:42/06-12-59>

Well, lets hope that Canis and Michael don't get into an extended
conversation, or else the wolf shaman is going to get mightily annoyed.
In general practice, I (and my characters) tend to use the word mage as a
generic term for "magic user." A Hermetic uses hermetic magic, and a
Shaman uses shamanic magic (and a Hougan uses Voudoun), and of course
there are all sorts of flavors in between from Asiatic shamanism
(WhiteTyger) to Mr. Gone's style (? seems a derivative of Voudoun, but
Paul never got specific) to Michael's use of the Kabbalah.

Early on FASA seemed to use the word mage to describe hermetics
specifically, but then later IIRC, they seem to use it to describe all
magic users. I assume there would be some sort of conventional lingo in
205X, but I don't know if it was ever specified. Of course I would assume
that Canis and other Shamans can be unusually adamant about not wanting to
be group themselves with hermetics, on the other hand I would think that
there would be a simple word in common parlance that could be used to
refer to all magically active people. It seems logical that that word
would be "mage." Just like adept doesn't carry with it any informantion
about the adept's tradition, even though an adept _must_ belong to a
tradition, even if they are Physical Adepts (i.e. a PhysAd who builds his
inner strength (hermetic), a Shao-lin who follows the "Path of Tiger"
(shamanic), or a Capoerista who is guided by the loa (Voudoun).

Anyone care to discuss this?

--My two yen

Jeff
Message no. 2
From: Jhary-a-Conel <Jhary-a-Conel@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Oh great (ODIN like)
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 21:03:10 +0200
On 12 Jun 98, at 10:19, Jeffrey Mach wrote:
[snip]
> Well, lets hope that Canis and Michael don't get into an extended
> conversation, or else the wolf shaman is going to get mightily annoyed. In
> general practice, I (and my characters) tend to use the word mage as a
> generic term for "magic user." A Hermetic uses hermetic magic, and a
> Shaman uses shamanic magic (and a Hougan uses Voudoun), and of course
> there are all sorts of flavors in between from Asiatic shamanism
> (WhiteTyger) to Mr. Gone's style (? seems a derivative of Voudoun, but
> Paul never got specific) to Michael's use of the Kabbalah.
>
> Early on FASA seemed to use the word mage to describe hermetics
> specifically, but then later IIRC, they seem to use it to describe all
> magic users. I assume there would be some sort of conventional lingo in
> 205X, but I don't know if it was ever specified. Of course I would assume
> that Canis and other Shamans can be unusually adamant about not wanting to
> be group themselves with hermetics, on the other hand I would think that
> there would be a simple word in common parlance that could be used to
> refer to all magically active people. It seems logical that that word
> would be "mage."
[snip]
> Anyone care to discuss this?
Of course :-)

You are right: In everyday conversation, the word to describe magically active
characters would most probably be "mage", and describe sorcerer adepts, and
maybe also conjuring adepts.

OTOH, Canis was my character since I started playing Shadowrun back in the
days of the Big Blue Book, and he was - and, as we see, still is - adamant in not
being a mage. One other character even designed a pin for him ("I am NO
mage!"), which I created IRL and wear to (nearly) all SR sessions :-)

It really was more an in-character comment then a trying-to-be-cleverer-then-you-
comment, although I am afraid sometimes I mix my character with my own self,
and get somewhat touchy about the matter (you know you are too deep into
roleplaying when your character starts influencing you, instead the other way
round!!!!! [sidenote: See what T.Pratchett had to say about five exclamation
marks! :-) ] )

Jhary
--
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|==== \_/ ======| *Wearing hats is just a way of life* | -- Officer Axly |
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me |Phoenix Command SACS|
+------------ http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary ----------------+
Message no. 3
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Oh great (ODIN like)
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 15:40:54 -0400
Actually, Jeff, the generic term that FASA uses (or at least that Steve
Kenson, their primary magic writer uses) is "magician."

A magician is anyone capable of tossing spells.

A mage is a hermetic magician.

A shaman is obviously a shamanic magician.

And so on down the line, with different traditions. But the "correct" term
for the generic "wizworm" isn't mage, it's magician.

Doesn't look, at first glance, like much of a difference, but it's there.

Erik J.


"Oh my God, they killed Dunkelzahn! You bastards!!!"
Message no. 4
From: Jeffrey Mach <mach@****.CALTECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Oh great (ODIN like)
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 13:08:26 -0700
On Fri, 12 Jun 1998, Erik Jameson wrote:

> Actually, Jeff, the generic term that FASA uses (or at least that Steve
> Kenson, their primary magic writer uses) is "magician."

> A magician is anyone capable of tossing spells.
>
> A mage is a hermetic magician.
>
> A shaman is obviously a shamanic magician.

Herm. I guess that makes a little sense. But when I think magician, I
think stage magician. Even the term illusionist, which is what many
stage magicians like to call themselves, has a more appropriate meaning in
SR, namely an adept that by totemic or elemental, or personal preference
tends to only create illusions, and quite possibly will only be used as
such.

A summoner is either a summoning adept, or someone who predominately does
magic via spirits. A conjurer is a bit harder to peg down, although it is
similar, ditto invoker. And who only knows if anybody wishes to
pigeonhole the term wizard. Although sorcerer would tend to indicate a
sorcery adept.

> And so on down the line, with different traditions. But the "correct" term
> for the generic "wizworm" isn't mage, it's magician.
>
> Doesn't look, at first glance, like much of a difference, but it's there.

Yeah, but...my problem comes down to the fact that magician has three
sylables which is at least one more than most colloquialisms and has four
more letters than mage.

My other problem is that mage comes from magic, which doesn't
linguistically limit it to the hermitic tradition, while "shaman" carries
the connotation of its tradition within the very name.

So, well without any more damning arguments, Canis can stick with his
attitude, but if you hear any of my characters using the term mage, they
are refering to magicians in general.

--My two yen

Jeff
Message no. 5
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Oh great (ODIN like)
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 16:33:43 -0400
At 09:03 PM 6/12/98 +0200, you wrote:

>You are right: In everyday conversation, the word to describe magically
active
>characters would most probably be "mage", and describe sorcerer adepts, and
>maybe also conjuring adepts.

According to the fictional accounts, a lot of common folk refer to
magicians of all stripes as "wizworms" and several other colloquial terms
(mosts of which are probably insulting to magicians).

>OTOH, Canis was my character since I started playing Shadowrun back in the
>days of the Big Blue Book, and he was - and, as we see, still is - adamant
in not

Hey, the Dark Stranger goes back to those days also. Designed around the
original combat mage archetype in January 1991.

Somehow I suspect there are a fair number of PCs that are alive on TK that
go back to SR1 (some of whom may have actually been killed in their RL
games...).

>being a mage. One other character even designed a pin for him ("I am NO
>mage!"), which I created IRL and wear to (nearly) all SR sessions :-)

Heh. Cool...

>round!!!!! [sidenote: See what T.Pratchett had to say about five exclamation
>marks! :-) ] )

So what does he say?

Erik J.


Resepected Elders Relaxation Resort, President of Operations
and Director of Activities

"Hey, how about a game of first edition using only the Blue Book?"
Message no. 6
From: "Mark A. Imbriaco" <mark.imbriaco@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Oh great (ODIN like)
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 17:06:43 -0400
On Fri, 12 Jun 1998, Erik Jameson wrote:

> At 09:03 PM 6/12/98 +0200, you wrote:
>
> >You are right: In everyday conversation, the word to describe magically
> active
> >characters would most probably be "mage", and describe sorcerer adepts,
and
> >maybe also conjuring adepts.
>
> According to the fictional accounts, a lot of common folk refer to
> magicians of all stripes as "wizworms" and several other colloquial terms
> (mosts of which are probably insulting to magicians).

I was under the impression that "wizworm" was a term used to
indicate a dragon. I could be wrong, but that was my
interpretation. Spellslinger is more common for magic using
individuals IMHO.

-Mark
Message no. 7
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Oh great (ODIN like)
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 19:11:31 -0400
At 05:06 PM 6/12/98 -0400, you wrote:

>> According to the fictional accounts, a lot of common folk refer to
>> magicians of all stripes as "wizworms" and several other colloquial
terms
>> (mosts of which are probably insulting to magicians).
>
> I was under the impression that "wizworm" was a term used to
> indicate a dragon. I could be wrong, but that was my
> interpretation. Spellslinger is more common for magic using
> individuals IMHO.

It seems logical that a wizworm would be strictly referring to a dragon,
but it doesn't seem to be that way from how I've read the fiction and the
Shadowland comments in the sourcebooks. For some odd reason, some people
have referred to magicians (I think mages in particular) as wizworms. Odd,
but...

But you are right in that spellslinger would be more common on the street.

Erik J.


"What was that popping sound?"

"A paradigm shifting without a clutch."

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Oh great (ODIN like), you may also be interested in:

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