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Message no. 1
From: Jeffrey Mach <mach@****.CALTECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Paraanimals
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 19:59:09 -0800
On Sat, 7 Feb 1998, Anthony G Guillotte wrote:

> ***** PRIVATE: Kerr
> >>>>>[Interested, lupine shifter. Meet at >>very secret
place<<, on

<<snip>>

> P.S. Dress nice. :) ]<<<<<
> -- Cross <21:17:05/02-07-59>
>
> _____________________________________________________________________
> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
> Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

I hope for this guy's sake he hasn't read the FAQ regarding sales pitches
and is ready to submit himself to a public carping.

I mean, .sigs on a ShadowTk post are agregious as is, but a .sig that is a
sales pitch? Way uncool.

--My two yen

Jeff
Message no. 2
From: Karl Low <kwil@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Paraanimals
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 22:25:35 -0700
From: Jeffrey Mach <mach@****.CALTECH.EDU>
Date: February 7, 1998 8:59 PM
Subject: Re: Paraanimals


>On Sat, 7 Feb 1998, Anthony G Guillotte wrote:
>> _____________________________________________________________________
>> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
>> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
>> Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
>
>I hope for this guy's sake he hasn't read the FAQ regarding sales pitches
>and is ready to submit himself to a public carping.
>
>I mean, .sigs on a ShadowTk post are agregious as is, but a .sig that is a
>sales pitch? Way uncool.
>


I believe the juno emailer automatically appends that sig to any message he
sends. That's what the price is for using their "free" email.

-karl
Message no. 3
From: Anthony G Guillotte <gguillotte@****.COM>
Subject: Paraanimals
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 01:57:56 EST
>> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
>> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
>> Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
>
>I hope for this guy's sake he hasn't read the FAQ regarding sales
pitches
>and is ready to submit himself to a public carping.>>>>>>>
>
>I mean, .sigs on a ShadowTk post are agregious as is, but a .sig that is
a
>sales pitch? Way uncool.
>
> --My two yen
>
> Jeff

Yes, I've read the FAQ. Several times. Don't yell at me, though, yell at
Juno - it only started as of today AFAIK, and never told me they had
started doing it. I didn't know until a friend on Juno wrote me about an
hour after I sent this. I can't control it - ever since HoTMaiL, every
other free e-mail service has jumped on the bandwagon, Juno included. If
it means I can't participate on the list, so be it - but it wasn't
intentional.

<mumble>OnedamntimeIpost&stoplurkingdamnitdamnitdamnit</mumle>

Feel free to thwap, tho - it's the first reason you guys have had to carp
someone that didn't have to do with "pleaz unsubskripe me from da list i
though it was nekked pepoles" or the like.

LPHnS,

GG

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Message no. 4
From: "Paul J. Adam" <shadowtk@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Paraanimals
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 11:35:44 +0000
In message <Pine.HPP.3.95.980207193510.14535A-100000@*****.ugcs.caltech.
edu>, Jeffrey Mach <mach@****.CALTECH.EDU> writes
>On Sat, 7 Feb 1998, Anthony G Guillotte wrote:
>
>> ***** PRIVATE: Kerr
>> >>>>>[Interested, lupine shifter. Meet at >>very secret
place<<, on
>
><<snip>>
>
>> P.S. Dress nice. :) ]<<<<<
>> -- Cross <21:17:05/02-07-59>
>>
>> _____________________________________________________________________
>> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
>> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
>> Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
>
>I hope for this guy's sake he hasn't read the FAQ regarding sales pitches
>and is ready to submit himself to a public carping.
>
>I mean, .sigs on a ShadowTk post are agregious as is, but a .sig that is a
>sales pitch? Way uncool.

It may be automated, like a "Posted via DejaNews" or the .sig that
Hotmail appends, in which case it's not his fault. Or he may simply not
know it's happening. I've let him know...
Message no. 5
From: Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Paraanimals
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 00:19:18 +0000
The comment at the end of Belial's post

Aufarbeiten umlaufend ereignis, Kumpel.

basically means, "Catch up on current events pal."

Just thought I'd mention it, in case anyone wondered.

<Ducks waiting for the German members to slap him about for poor
phrasing> :)

--
Dark Avenger -:- http://www.shalako.demon.co.uk/index.htm -
Unofficial Shadowtk Newbies Guide, Edgerunners Datastore &
Beginnings of the Underseas Sourcebook.
http://freespace.virgin.net/pete.sims/index.htm - Alternative UK Sourcebook
(U/C)
Message no. 6
From: Sascha Pabst <Sascha.Pabst@**********.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
Subject: Re: Paraanimals
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 19:54:11 +0000
On 20 Feb 98 at 0:19, Avenger wrote:
> The comment at the end of Belial's post
>
> Aufarbeiten umlaufend ereignis, Kumpel.
>
> basically means, "Catch up on current events pal."
>
> Just thought I'd mention it, in case anyone wondered.
>
> <Ducks waiting for the German members to slap him about for poor
> phrasing> :)
You know, I am glad you translated it :-)

Sascha
--
+---___---------+----------------------------------------+--------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst | The truth may be |
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de| out there, but |
| \___ __/ | ICQ#: 7 517 216 | lies are inside |
|==== \_/ ======| *Wearing hats is just a way of life* | your head. |
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | -- T.Pratchett |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+
Message no. 7
From: Jeffrey Mach <mach@****.CALTECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Paraanimals
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 22:08:23 -0800
On Sat, 21 Feb 1998, J. Keith Henry wrote:

> In a message dated 98-02-21 13:10:10 EST, Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK writes:
>
> > >>>>>[Erm, Prophet. Not to decry your comments, but how can a
being the
> > -- Belial <17:49:34/02-21-59>

Watch your replies...we already got the original, so if you are writing to
ShadowTk, make sure you delete the original after you are finished with
writing the reply. On PlotD, its fine, if you need it to make sure you
are keeping your point clear.

And now, since we are talking shapeshifters, on to the meat:

> The fox that emerges is male as
> well, not quite full grown in maturity. It looks up to the camera man, and
> yips once. Immediately, the effects re-occur, but in reverse.

Got no preoblem with Fox Shapeshifters. In fact, the Companion has rules
for making up Bear, Fox, Leopard, Seal, Tiger, and Wolf PC Shapeshifters.
An interesting question is, what is there relation to the Japanese
Kitsune? In their legend, there are two animals that were common
shifters, the Kitsune (fox) and Tanuki (Racoon). However, depending on
the story, they weren't limited to just changing into human form. Anyone
know of a Paranormal Animals of Asia book? I would assume in Asia, that
you would have nearly no Wolf shapeshifters, while Fox Shifters would be
significantly more common. And how about Native American Coyote
ShapeShifters?

> You'll see the stars show you the way in the forest." And with that, she
> literally leaps into the air, her arms transforming quickly, her long legs
> receding nearer her body, the wings emerge quickly from her back, the hands
> talonate quickly, the eyes...widen somehow...and the large eagle flies off
> into the night...]

Hmmm. A fierce nitpick here. Large non-fish vertebrate bone structures
are all _very_ similar, other than size and shape of individual bones. An
Eagle's talons are on its _feet_ not hands, while the hands and arms form
the leading edge of the wings. I would only assume that a shapeshifter
would not sprout entirely new limbs, but would use what's already there.
Limbs would simply distort to their alternate size, shape, and covering.

--My two yen

Jeff
Message no. 8
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Paraanimals
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 01:23:27 EST
In a message dated 98-02-22 01:08:28 EST, mach@****.caltech.edu writes:

> > > >>>>>[Erm, Prophet. Not to decry your comments, but how
can a being
the
> > > -- Belial <17:49:34/02-21-59>
>
> Watch your replies...we already got the original, so if you are writing to
> ShadowTk, make sure you delete the original after you are finished with
> writing the reply. On PlotD, its fine, if you need it to make sure you
> are keeping your point clear.

Yeah Yeah, Paul beat you to the punchline guy, I've been thwapped already...
;)

> And now, since we are talking shapeshifters, on to the meat:

Oh goodie, do we get desert too???

> > The fox that emerges is male as
> > well, not quite full grown in maturity. It looks up to the camera man,
> and
> > yips once. Immediately, the effects re-occur, but in reverse.
>
> Got no preoblem with Fox Shapeshifters. In fact, the Companion has rules
> for making up Bear, Fox, Leopard, Seal, Tiger, and Wolf PC Shapeshifters.
> An interesting question is, what is there relation to the Japanese
> Kitsune? In their legend, there are two animals that were common
> shifters, the Kitsune (fox) and Tanuki (Racoon). However, depending on
> the story, they weren't limited to just changing into human form. Anyone
> know of a Paranormal Animals of Asia book? I would assume in Asia, that
> you would have nearly no Wolf shapeshifters, while Fox Shifters would be
> significantly more common. And how about Native American Coyote
> ShapeShifters?

I've heard modern day stories (modern being up to 10 years ago) from a real
honest to god (creator) medicine man on the Zuni Reservation in Northeastern
Arizona concerning "coyote" and the forms it assumes. Raven is another one
that they talked about. My favorites are the Inuit tales of people becoming
Orca and other beings. I think that would be great ... human(oid) one second,
the next second you have a MASSIVE cetacean predator chasing after the boat
you thought you'd be safe getting away in...

I don't think that an "Asian" book has come about, but it would be
interesting.

> Hmmm. A fierce nitpick here. Large non-fish vertebrate bone structures
> are all _very_ similar, other than size and shape of individual bones. An
> Eagle's talons are on its _feet_ not hands, while the hands and arms form
> the leading edge of the wings. I would only assume that a shapeshifter
> would not sprout entirely new limbs, but would use what's already there.
> Limbs would simply distort to their alternate size, shape, and covering.

Actually, it was a matter of structure and re-determinance that we did this in
the games here. The "graphics" were just something that we threw in for the
NPC from the NAN-North book.

The "Hands" and the "Talons" perform the same function in men and
birds.
Grasping, Holding, Fighting. "Feet" in mankind has lost much of it's
function, while in birds/avians, the feet have become dual purpose. The
shoulders are the support of structure in hominids, and with birds, they are
the strongest muscleforms in the body, next to the heart. It also makes
people stop and consider other possibilities than what a "person" would
consider versus what nature might.

> --My two yen
> Jeff

And a well spent two they are...
-K
Message no. 9
From: "Mark L. Neidengard" <mneideng@****.CALTECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Paraanimals
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 10:34:42 -0800
According to Jeffrey Mach:
>> The fox that emerges is male as
>> well, not quite full grown in maturity. It looks up to the camera man, and
>> yips once. Immediately, the effects re-occur, but in reverse.
>
>Got no preoblem with Fox Shapeshifters. In fact, the Companion has rules
>for making up Bear, Fox, Leopard, Seal, Tiger, and Wolf PC Shapeshifters.
>An interesting question is, what is there relation to the Japanese
>Kitsune? In their legend, there are two animals that were common
>shifters, the Kitsune (fox) and Tanuki (Racoon). However, depending on
>the story, they weren't limited to just changing into human form. Anyone
>know of a Paranormal Animals of Asia book? I would assume in Asia, that
>you would have nearly no Wolf shapeshifters, while Fox Shifters would be
>significantly more common. And how about Native American Coyote
>ShapeShifters?

Well, once the can of worms of shapeshifters is opened, why not go for _all_
the tanuki, kitsune, and bakeneko and similar creatures? These were common
enough in Japanese folk mythology that "bakemono" (literally "transforming
thing") is the most common that they use where the English-speakers would use
"monster". And why not grab all the Native American shifters? Hell, why not
grab the South American ones? Eastern European myths also have lots of
transforming beasties.

Of course, the problem is where to _stop_. I mean _sure_, it's possible to
throw every mythological object of superstition on the books into the scenario,
but pretty soon there's no room for the normal humans, you know? I'm not
objecting to the use of all this mystical stuff exactly, but I'm going to
advocate caution in bloating things too much with a _glut_ of shifters or other
similar creatures...
--
/!\/!ark /!\!eidengard, CS Grad, VLSI http://www.cacr.caltech.edu/~mneideng
"Fairy of sleep, controller of illusions" Operator/Jack-of-all-Trades, CACR
"Control the person for my own purpose." "Don't mess with the Dark
Elves!"
-Pirotess, _Record_of_Lodoss_War_ Shadowrunner and Anime Addict
Message no. 10
From: "Mark L. Neidengard" <mneideng@****.CALTECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Paraanimals
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 10:36:51 -0800
According to J. Keith Henry:
>In a message dated 98-02-22 01:08:28 EST, mach@****.caltech.edu writes:
>> Hmmm. A fierce nitpick here. Large non-fish vertebrate bone structures
>> are all _very_ similar, other than size and shape of individual bones. An
>> Eagle's talons are on its _feet_ not hands, while the hands and arms form
>> the leading edge of the wings. I would only assume that a shapeshifter
>> would not sprout entirely new limbs, but would use what's already there.
>> Limbs would simply distort to their alternate size, shape, and covering.
>
>Actually, it was a matter of structure and re-determinance that we did this in
>the games here. The "graphics" were just something that we threw in for the
>NPC from the NAN-North book.
>
>The "Hands" and the "Talons" perform the same function in men and
birds.
>Grasping, Holding, Fighting. "Feet" in mankind has lost much of it's
>function, while in birds/avians, the feet have become dual purpose. The
>shoulders are the support of structure in hominids, and with birds, they are
>the strongest muscleforms in the body, next to the heart. It also makes
>people stop and consider other possibilities than what a "person" would
>consider versus what nature might.

I agree with Jeff on this one. Structural isomorphisms are one thing, total
bodily redesign is something else.
--
/!\/!ark /!\!eidengard, CS Grad, VLSI http://www.cacr.caltech.edu/~mneideng
"Fairy of sleep, controller of illusions" Operator/Jack-of-all-Trades, CACR
"Control the person for my own purpose." "Don't mess with the Dark
Elves!"
-Pirotess, _Record_of_Lodoss_War_ Shadowrunner and Anime Addict
Message no. 11
From: Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Paraanimals
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 21:19:18 +0000
In article <lyCLBXA2YI80EwPY@********.demon.co.uk>, Paul J. Adam
<shadowtk@********.DEMON.CO.UK> waffled & burbled about Paraanimals
>>>>>>[Faerie, when you bite someone's hand off you get a mouthful of
>blood with it, and the blood's a fair guide to how the meat will taste.
>You spit pretty fast, too, because you may need to bite again in a
>hurry.

<snippus>

>and go buy a pizza. If I'm _really_ starving it's easier to shoplift a
>Stuffer Shack than to commit random murder.]<<<<<
> -- Faerie <20:10:45/02-22-59>


Hmmm.... Interesting. I think Faerie better seek some serious
psychological help before Cat employs him. Not only is he/she talking
to themselves, but he/she also thinks they're a leopard shapeshifter.
<g>

--
Dark Avenger -:- http://www.shalako.demon.co.uk/index.htm -
Unofficial Shadowtk Newbies Guide, Edgerunners Datastore &
Beginnings of the Underseas Sourcebook.
http://freespace.virgin.net/pete.sims/index.htm - Alternative UK Sourcebook
(U/C)
Message no. 12
From: "Paul J. Adam" <shadowtk@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Paraanimals
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 23:21:14 +0000
In message <38NO7CAWZJ80Ew9M@*******.demon.co.uk>, Avenger
<Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK> writes
>In article <lyCLBXA2YI80EwPY@********.demon.co.uk>, Paul J. Adam
>>and go buy a pizza. If I'm _really_ starving it's easier to shoplift a
>>Stuffer Shack than to commit random murder.]<<<<<
>> -- Faerie <20:10:45/02-22-59>
>
>Hmmm.... Interesting. I think Faerie better seek some serious
>psychological help before Cat employs him. Not only is he/she talking
>to themselves, but he/she also thinks they're a leopard shapeshifter.
><g>

I'd shoot myself in the head with carp bullets if I still had a gun...

Sorry, people.

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Paraanimals, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!