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Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: "E.S. Brunsell" <ericb@***.WISC.EDU>
Subject: pope
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 1994 02:35:42 CST
Hi,

Have fun w/ my posts, I threw them in for fun, if anyone wants to have a blast
w/ them let me know. I want to here what you have to say about them!

Eric
ericb@***.wisc.edu
Message no. 2
From: "Jason Carter, Nightstalker" <CARTER@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: pope
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 1994 22:35:15 -0800
You know Eric, I think killing the Pope is a despicable thing to do.

I also think it is a violation of the "Don't Fuck with the World" guideline
for Shadowtk.

Besides, do you really think that anyone could kill the Pope that easily? The
Vactian Security has been hyper since that guy shot Pope John Paul II. Image
how well he would be protected in 2055.

*******************************************************************************
* See Ya in Shadows * * "Keep your friends close, but keep *
* Jason J Carter * Carter@***.EDU * your enemies closer." *
* The Nightstalker * * Deep Throat -- The X-Files *
*******************************************************************************
Message no. 3
From: Timothy Skirvin <tskirvin@********.UNI.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: pope
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 07:51:09 -0600
I personally thought that the pope-slaughtering had something to do
with a plot...it certainly would need one...

----------------------- "Well, you see, they took the Bible literally.
Tim Skirvin Adam and Eve, the snake and the apple...took
(tskirvin@ it word for word. Unfortunately, their
superdec.uni.uiuc.edu) version had a misprint."
----------------------- - Rimmer, Red Dwarf (The Last Day)
Message no. 4
From: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@*******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: Re: pope
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 11:09:15 -0600
On Mon, 21 Mar 1994, Timothy Skirvin wrote:

> I personally thought that the pope-slaughtering had something to do
> with a plot...it certainly would need one...

Join the church of MONICA.

Hmm, maybe not.

____ Robert A. Hayden <=> hayden@*******.mankato.msus.edu
\ /__ -=-=-=-=- <=> -=-=-=-=-
\/ / Finger for Geek Code Info <=> Political Correctness is
\/ Finger for PGP 2.3a Public Key <=> P.C. for "Thought Police"
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
(GEEK CODE 1.0.1) GAT d- -p+(---) c++(++++) l++ u++ e+/* m++(*)@ s-/++
n-(---) h+(*) f+ g+ w++ t++ r++ y+(*)
Message no. 5
From: Eric Brunsell <ericb@***.WISC.EDU>
Subject: Re: pope
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 12:16:58 CST
>
> You know Eric, I think killing the Pope is a despicable thing to do.
Yep, but I didn't do it.

>
> I also think it is a violation of the "Don't Fuck with the World" guideline
> for Shadowtk.


If we can play with governments, Corps, terrorists, AI's, Mafia, Yakuza, CIA
etc. etc. Why not the Catholic Church. Is _really_ that big of a deal?

>
> Besides, do you really think that anyone could kill the Pope that easily? The
> Vactian Security has been hyper since that guy shot Pope John Paul II. Image
> how well he would be protected in 2055.


Yes, I realize that it would not be easy to kill the Pope. All my post said
was that he was killed. It didn't mention any of the planning or execution
of the assasination plot. Couch doesn't know how or why, but I do!

Maybe the assasination was planned by a crazy guy last night, or maybe it was
planned by an even crazier guy for the past two years, or maybe the old Pope
planned it himself, or .........

Besides, look at the responses from the list. I really wasn't expecting anyone
to care enough to post. Have fun with it.

Eric

P.S. I thought there was something in the FAQ about swearing too. Maybe it
should be "Don't Frag with the World"
Message no. 6
From: Doctor Doom <jch8169@******.TAMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Pope
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 17:48:10 -0600
I feel led to echo the sentiments expressed by my recently-resurrected
associate, Nightstalker, in his protesting the purging of the Holy Pontiff.

You did this "for fun"?!!? -- obviously some usage of the word "fun"
of which
I was not previously aware.

Furthermore, I believe that one should re-emphasize the argument posed by
Nighstalker regarding the considerable vicissitude one would expect to
encounter were one endeavoring to extinguish the Pope. I would expect
there to be extensive and comprehensive security measures which would
require a substantial effort to overcome, and yet this is conspiciously
lacking in the depiction of the event.


Colonel Count von Hohenzollern und von Doom, DMSc, DSc, PhD.

Doom Technologies & Weapon Systems -- Dark Thought Publications
>>> Working on solutions best left in the dark.
<<<
[ Doctor Doom : jch8169@******.tamu.edu ]
^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^
"Attack, attack, and when in doubt, ATTACK!" -- Frederick the Great of Prussia
Message no. 7
From: Eric Brunsell <ericb@***.WISC.EDU>
Subject: pope
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 21:57:07 GMT
I guess I should put this to rest (Oops)

1) I did not expect such a response (Positive or Negative)

2) I did not see it as "Fragging w/ the World" There still is a Pope, just a
different one. The Church is probably something that never has been and
probably never will be used again.

3) It is a part of an ongoing plotline

4) I took into consideration the Pope's security (The post about his
bodygaurds is along the lines that I was thinking)

5) I could have let everyone in on the details except that they sure wouldn't
be posted on the shadowland BBS

6) What I meant by "have fun w/ it" was not to "poke fun of it" I
allways
enjoy what others on the list come up with. More than half of the posts
since Couch posted about the assasination have been aout the pope & very
creative also

7) The Catholic Church is going to do some good w/ thier money

8) I am Catholic!

9) I appologize if I annoyed people by using a little used influential figure
without the lists approval but....

10) I hinted as much as I could w/ my Rubicon posts

If anyone else wants to comment about this, please use my e-mail addres
(Dr. Doom, if you want to know what I am up to, just holler)

Eric


P.S. Illusions are cool
Message no. 8
From: "Scott D. Peterson" <scpeters@****.EDU>
Subject: Re: pope
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 23:28:22 -0700
Eric,

I'm sill catching up on whats been happening since Friday. Seems to me
that the religious aspect of shadowrun is something that needs some
looking into. Maybe even a letter the the design team at FASA. Untill
some one else wishes to toy we the aspects of religion I would stick to
other lines, but have fun with all the other stuff.


Scott,

ps. learn how to handle your mail reader or you just might dump all 215
messages like I did.
Message no. 9
From: "Jason Carter, Nightstalker" <CARTER@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: pope
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 1994 22:40:27 -0800
> You know Eric, I think killing the Pope is a despicable thing to do.
>>Yep, but I didn't do it.

Your right! Some scummy assassin did it :)

>
> I also think it is a violation of the "Don't Fuck with the World" guideline
> for Shadowtk.

>>If we can play with governments, Corps, terrorists, AI's, Mafia, Yakuza, CIA
>>etc. etc. Why not the Catholic Church. Is _really_ that big of a deal?

It's one think to mess with governments and corps, it's an entirely different
thing to kill the President or Damion Knight. IMHO killing the Pope falls
in this catagory.

> Besides, do you really think that anyone could kill the Pope that easily? The
> Vactian Security has been hyper since that guy shot Pope John Paul II. Image
> how well he would be protected in 2055.

>>Yes, I realize that it would not be easy to kill the Pope. All my post said
>>was that he was killed. It didn't mention any of the planning or execution
>>of the assasination plot. Couch doesn't know how or why, but I do!

True, but the execution as described was so flimsy that it couldn't have been
used to kill a prominate businessman, yet alone the leader of a small country
and major religion.

>>Maybe the assasination was planned by a crazy guy last night, or maybe it was
>>planned by an even crazier guy for the past two years, or maybe the old Pope
>>planned it himself, or .........

Heh, Heh, Heh..... Mind letting me in? I'm curious.

*******************************************************************************
* See Ya in Shadows * * "Keep your friends close, but keep *
* Jason J Carter * Carter@***.EDU * your enemies closer." *
* The Nightstalker * * Deep Throat -- The X-Files *
*******************************************************************************
Message no. 10
From: Timothy Skirvin <tskirvin@********.UNI.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: pope
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 1994 10:37:26 -0600
If you're doing major things with the Pope, PLEASE clue us in soon,
at least here. Or give us a hint in Shadowtalk.

Otherwise, I'LL do one, and it won't be pretty (I'm thinking that some
group wants to assassinate almost every major world leader...the end run would
be to stop them from wiping out the President of the UCAS).

----------------------- "Well, you see, they took the Bible literally.
Tim Skirvin Adam and Eve, the snake and the apple...took
(tskirvin@ it word for word. Unfortunately, their
superdec.uni.uiuc.edu) version had a misprint."
----------------------- - Rimmer, Red Dwarf (The Last Day)
Message no. 11
From: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@*******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: Re: pope
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 1994 12:27:59 -0600
On Wed, 23 Mar 1994, Timothy Skirvin wrote:

> Otherwise, I'LL do one, and it won't be pretty (I'm thinking that some
> group wants to assassinate almost every major world leader...the end run would
> be to stop them from wiping out the President of the UCAS).

Munchkin.

____ Robert A. Hayden <=> hayden@*******.mankato.msus.edu
\ /__ -=-=-=-=- <=> -=-=-=-=-
\/ / Finger for Geek Code Info <=> Political Correctness is
\/ Finger for PGP 2.3a Public Key <=> P.C. for "Thought Police"
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
(GEEK CODE 1.0.1) GAT d- -p+(---) c++(++++) l++ u++ e+/* m++(*)@ s-/++
n-(---) h+(*) f+ g+ w++ t++ r++ y+(*)
Message no. 12
From: Nightfox <DJWA@******.UCC.NAU.EDU>
Subject: Re: pope
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 1994 15:50:14 -0700
>> I also think it is a violation of the "Don't Fuck with the World"
guideline
>> for Shadowtk.
>
>>>If we can play with governments, Corps, terrorists, AI's, Mafia, Yakuza, CIA
>>>etc. etc. Why not the Catholic Church. Is _really_ that big of a deal?
>
>It's one think to mess with governments and corps, it's an entirely different
>thing to kill the President or Damion Knight. IMHO killing the Pope falls
>in this catagory.


I disagree with that last statement. Yes killing Damion Knight is way out of
bounds, but I don't really think the Pope falls in this catagory. If I remember
correctly, they never even name the Pope in any of the books. As such he and
the catholic are fairly fair game (obviously we can't have someone blow up Rome
or collapse the Catholic Church). The basic Idea of the "Don't Screw with the
Books" thing is that it gives everyone a common basis to start off from. If a
Newbie comes in - he is going to expect LoneStar to be Seattle Police, Ares to
be a megacorp and TT to be owned by the elves. If things are not mentioned by
the books, they are MOSTLY fair game - just use discretion.

Of course, sometimes problems arise - Like Doctor Doom's Germany - many people
on the list really liked Doom's Germany - but we can't keep it (and haven't)
because FASA has put out material now (good material too). Unfortuanately this
leaves Doom with a character problem - but the other choice is to put his WHOLE
Germany rewrite into the FAQ.

Basically, someone as undescribed as the Pope is fair game - if a Newbie comes
in it probably won't matter WHO the Pope is.

BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!
Daniel Waisley + SCA - March of Ered Sul - Flagstaff AZ
DJWA@******.UCC.NAU.EDU + Nau fencing club.
"Nightfox" + Brotherhood of the Cryptic Demesne -household
BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!
GE - d+(-) -p+@ c++(++++) !L u(--) e+(*) m+ s+/ !n+(-) h* f+ g+ w+++ t+ r+ y+
"infinity = zero" - Daniel Waisley "Nightfox"
BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!
Message no. 13
From: Timothy Skirvin <tskirvin@********.UNI.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: pope
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 1994 16:58:30 -0600
> Munchkin.

Maybe Munchkin, but no worse than killing off the Pope (and maybe it
won't get that far. A CEO of some minor mega-corp [contradiction?] would do
fine, and you can hire them for that (and it would make sense, with the state-
ment...)

Oh well. I'll probably skip it.

----------------------- "Well, you see, they took the Bible literally.
Tim Skirvin Adam and Eve, the snake and the apple...took
(tskirvin@ it word for word. Unfortunately, their
superdec.uni.uiuc.edu) version had a misprint."
----------------------- - Rimmer, Red Dwarf (The Last Day)
Message no. 14
From: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@*******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: Re: pope
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 1994 17:52:13 -0600
On Wed, 23 Mar 1994, Timothy Skirvin wrote:

> Maybe Munchkin, but no worse than killing off the Pope (and maybe it
> won't get that far. A CEO of some minor mega-corp [contradiction?] would do
> fine, and you can hire them for that (and it would make sense, with the state-
> ment...)

Ok, let me see if I have this straight, it IS ok to kill a corp leader, a
mafia boss, and AI, a president, a prime minister, a terrorist leader, a
congressman, but if you kill a religious leader is bad?

What an incredible fucking double standard.

Get a life.

____ Robert A. Hayden <=> hayden@*******.mankato.msus.edu
\ /__ -=-=-=-=- <=> -=-=-=-=-
\/ / Finger for Geek Code Info <=> Political Correctness is
\/ Finger for PGP 2.3a Public Key <=> P.C. for "Thought Police"
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
(GEEK CODE 1.0.1) GAT d- -p+(---) c++(++++) l++ u++ e+/* m++(*)@ s-/++
n-(---) h+(*) f+ g+ w++ t++ r++ y+(*)
Message no. 15
From: Nightfox <DJWA@******.UCC.NAU.EDU>
Subject: Re: pope
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 1994 20:47:23 -0700
>Ok, let me see if I have this straight, it IS ok to kill a corp leader, a
^^^^^^^^^^
maybe

>mafia boss, and AI, a president, a prime minister, a terrorist leader, a
^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
all but big ones all PC's try not too, unless small YUP

>congressman, but if you kill a religious leader is bad?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Fair Game don't do it flipantly


all in all the bottom line IMHO (like the things above) is don't change things
found in books and use moderation - its the "play nice children" theory, as long
as we all cooperate things go nicely


BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!
Daniel Waisley + SCA - March of Ered Sul - Flagstaff AZ
DJWA@******.UCC.NAU.EDU + Nau fencing club.
"Nightfox" + Brotherhood of the Cryptic Demesne -household
BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!
GE - d+(-) -p+@ c++(++++) !L u(--) e+(*) m+ s+/ !n+(-) h* f+ g+ w+++ t+ r+ y+
"infinity = zero" - Daniel Waisley "Nightfox"
BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!
Message no. 16
From: Timothy Skirvin <tskirvin@********.UNI.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: pope
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 1994 07:49:35 -0600
Nope. You can kill a MINOR corp leader, a mafia leader (as long as
it's in a minor area), and a terrorist leader, but killing an AI is hard, a
president is harder, a prime minister is pretty difficult too, a congressman
or two is fair game, and a religious leader can alienate more people than all
of the above.

Let's try to keep this whole thing from turning into a flame war. I've
only SUGGESTED killing some of these, and I was kindof wondering why the Pope
was killed myself (as I said before, it had better be a good plot...)

No flames, maybe logical discussion, otherwise we'll drop it.

----------------------- "Well, you see, they took the Bible literally.
Tim Skirvin Adam and Eve, the snake and the apple...took
(tskirvin@ it word for word. Unfortunately, their
superdec.uni.uiuc.edu) version had a misprint."
----------------------- - Rimmer, Red Dwarf (The Last Day)
Message no. 17
From: "E.S. Brunsell" <ericb@***.WISC.EDU>
Subject: Pope
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 1994 10:18:14 CDT
Sorry to say, but I'm back!

To everyone that is still talking about the Pope's death, can you please tell
me privatly what you have planned. The few things that I have read are quite
interesting, but they may be conflicting w/ my plot.

I am introducing a character named Talon. He is involved with investigating
the occurances in the Vatican. If needs a description, he is a tall human with
short black hair. He wears loose-fitting black clothes w/ a priest collar.
A large iron cross hangs from a silver chain around his neck.

Eric

ericb@***.wisc.edu
Message no. 18
From: "E.S. Brunsell" <ericb@***.WISC.EDU>
Subject: Pope
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 1994 18:16:23 CDT
My character, Talon, recently asked for information on the Pope. I would like
to know what you all have in mind for plots and stuff. The response on this
topic is to much for me not to add in more subplots, Please tell me what you
have in mind!

Eric

P.S. Harry, let me know what TK 's real name is please.
Message no. 19
From: J Gavigan <csc086@*****.LANCS.AC.UK>
Subject: Pope
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 1994 20:35:00 +0100
I was just thinking that it would be interesting if someone perhaps pointed
out that the Pope's body hasn't actually ever been seen, and how do we know
certain that he's dead?

Dodger
(The Devious One)
Message no. 20
From: "E.S. Brunsell" <ericb@***.WISC.EDU>
Subject: pope
Date: Wed, 4 May 1994 23:13:24 CDT
r
Argh, I hope these messages got through, I,ve had about five bounced over the
past two days. I'll post what Talon knowss tomorrow morning around 10:00 cen

WIf you can, post about the Cathedral in Sens, it dwarfs the others and is
heavily gaurded. They are "preparing for a visit by the pope"

We'll attack it tomorrow night and I'll write up the battle oFri. morning
Fri. afternoon, I'll post the wrap-up

I hope that I can stick to this, but it all depends on the server letting me
through!

Eric

Further Reading

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Thwap!