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Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: Jaimie Nicholson <jaimie.nicholson@********.OTAGO.AC.NZ>
Subject: Re: the argument about everything
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 17:38:46 +1200
I got the beer atom reference. That makes one.

Anyways, if I was a Horror, and I wanted to catch those pesky humans
napping next time round, I would want to destroy all evidence of my
presence/activities before the mana fell too far for me to do anything.

I don't know the capabilities of Horrors, but if they're going to be a
threat to the 6th world, they must be able to do some pretty nasty stuff.
Targetting the learned and the record keepers for a few generations might
be one thing I'd try, as well as promoting anti-science
regimes/religions/power structures/whatevers. The cities, well, alot of the
time people build on top of where they used to live, so maybe Parlainth is
buried under Tehran (and if you want to play word games, whoever it was,
how about Tehran and Theran).

What I'm trying to say is, if there was a previous civilisation, maybe the
Horrors destroyed as much evidence of it As they could.

(PS This is getting to include a curious mixture of opinions about real
life and about SR. My comments apply strictly to SR.)

PLAYTHING OF A CRUEL GOD
JAIMIE NICHOLSON
Message no. 2
From: Mike Goldberg <michael.goldberg@*******.COM>
Subject: Re[2]: the argument about everything
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 08:49:07 MST
Jaimie Nicholson said:

>Anyways, if I was a Horror, and I wanted to catch those pesky humans
>napping next time round, I would want to destroy all evidence of my
>presence/activities before the mana fell too far for me to do
>anything.

That would explain why there was only one reference about horrors
found from the first Scourge going into Earthdawn. (At least
according to the first book put out for Earthdawn. Don't know if FA$A
has changed their tune on that one.)

>I don't know the capabilities of Horrors, but if they're going to be a
>threat to the 6th world, they must be able to do some pretty nasty stuff.
>Targetting the learned and the record keepers for a few generations might
>be one thing I'd try, as well as promoting anti-science
>regimes/religions/power structures/whatevers. The cities, well, alot of
>the time people build on top of where they used to live, so maybe
>Parlainth is buried under Tehran (and if you want to play word games,
>whoever it was, how about Tehran and Theran).

>What I'm trying to say is, if there was a previous civilisation, maybe the
>Horrors destroyed as much evidence of it As they could.

This is just mere mind wandering, but FA$A seems to be trying (at
least to some extent) the evolution that made Earthdawn. Look at how
invasive the invae were to Shadowrun. It's the same stunt they [FA$A]
pulled in Earthdawn's history of the horror hunter group. (Sorry
forgot what they were called ... black legion? grim legion?
something like that). If invae were about the same level of
effectiveness in both worlds (wiped out a few cities), and they got no
where compared to where the horrors did ... then we have a pretty good
hint as to how complete a true invasion of horrors would be.
Technological weapons of mass destruction would only work against the
low-grade horrors, but the destruction of the local environment would
help the higher-powered ones. Also the ones that can pop into and out
of astral space would still be out there, and would cleverly hide
themselves as well. The darkness of a cyberpunk world would give them
plenty of feeding off the despair and anger. And unless the
knowledgeable educated the poor and slave wages (not likely given the
cyberpunk genre), then there would be plenty of fertile ground to hide
in.

Mike
Message no. 3
From: "Mark L. Neidengard" <mneideng@****.CALTECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: the argument about everything
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 13:13:07 -0700
According to Mike Goldberg:
>Jaimie Nicholson said:
>
> This is just mere mind wandering, but FA$A seems to be trying (at
> least to some extent) the evolution that made Earthdawn. Look at how
> invasive the invae were to Shadowrun. It's the same stunt they [FA$A]
> pulled in Earthdawn's history of the horror hunter group. (Sorry
> forgot what they were called ... black legion? grim legion?
> something like that). If invae were about the same level of
> effectiveness in both worlds (wiped out a few cities), and they got no
> where compared to where the horrors did ... then we have a pretty good
> hint as to how complete a true invasion of horrors would be.

I'm still wondering why FASA decided to take a cyberpunk world and introduce
a Bug Hunt(tm)...

> Technological weapons of mass destruction would only work against the
> low-grade horrors, but the destruction of the local environment would
> help the higher-powered ones. Also the ones that can pop into and out
> of astral space would still be out there, and would cleverly hide
> themselves as well. The darkness of a cyberpunk world would give them
> plenty of feeding off the despair and anger. And unless the
> knowledgeable educated the poor and slave wages (not likely given the
> cyberpunk genre), then there would be plenty of fertile ground to hide
> in.

The apparent rules-immunity the Horrors seem to enjoy doesn't hurt their
chances either =(
--
/!\/!ark /!\!eidengard, CS Grad, VLSI http://www.cacr.caltech.edu/~mneideng
"Fairy of sleep, controller of illusions" Operator/Jack-of-all-Trades, CACR
"Control the person for my own purpose." "Don't mess with the Dark
Elves!"
-Pirotess, _Record_of_Lodoss_War_ Shadowrunner and Anime Addict
Message no. 4
From: Justin Fang <justinf@****.CALTECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: the argument about everything
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 14:59:24 -0700
Jaimie Nicholson wrote:

>What I'm trying to say is, if there was a previous civilisation, maybe the
>Horrors destroyed as much evidence of it As they could.

Could be, but this doesn't explain why there's no evidence of the
Earthdawn civ, since that one specifically popped up *after* the bulk of
the Horros went away.

--
Justin Fang (justinf@****.caltech.edu)
This space intentionally left blank.
Message no. 5
From: Jaimie Nicholson <jaimie.nicholson@********.OTAGO.AC.NZ>
Subject: Re: the argument about everything
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 10:01:05 +1200
>the [Horrors} that can pop into and out
> of astral space would still be out there, and would cleverly hide
> themselves as well. The darkness of a cyberpunk world would give them
> plenty of feeding off the despair and anger. And unless the
> knowledgeable educated the poor and slave wages (not likely given the
> cyberpunk genre), then there would be plenty of fertile ground to hide
> in.

Hell, maybe in 2058 they're already here, hiding in the astral, and feeding
off of said despair and anger.

PLAYTHING OF A CRUEL GOD
JAIMIE NICHOLSON
Message no. 6
From: Jaimie Nicholson <jaimie.nicholson@********.OTAGO.AC.NZ>
Subject: Re: the argument about everything
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 10:12:48 +1200
>>if there was a previous civilisation, maybe the
>>Horrors destroyed as much evidence of it As they could.
>
>Could be, but this doesn't explain why there's no evidence of the
>Earthdawn civ, since that one specifically popped up *after* the bulk of
>the Horros went away.

What was going on just over 5000 years ago (end of the mana-cycle, unless
I'm misinterpreting something)? If there was a civilisation there, maybe
FASA is claiming that that was the remnants of the ED civ. And for that
matter, I got the impression somewhere that the ED civ wasn't all that
civilised, more like tribes of nomads and raiders than nations. Of course,
I've read only the first ED book, and that only once.

PLAYTHING OF A CRUEL GOD
JAIMIE NICHOLSON
Message no. 7
From: Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: the argument about everything
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 02:35:52 +0100
In article <9706248697.AA869756783@*********.comm.twcable.com>, Mike
Goldberg <michael.goldberg@*******.COM> rambled about: the argument
about everything

<big snip>
> help the higher-powered ones. Also the ones that can pop into and out
> of astral space would still be out there, and would cleverly hide
> themselves as well. The darkness of a cyberpunk world would give them
> plenty of feeding off the despair and anger. And unless the
> knowledgeable educated the poor and slave wages (not likely given the
> cyberpunk genre), then there would be plenty of fertile ground to hide
> in.
>
> Mike

Interesting observation Mike.

Question. This is not something that's likely to affect the list in
much of a manner, but if one follows the "astrally aware bacteria"
thingy that FASA stuffed into Target:UCAS to kill off the Chicago bugs,
would it not be possible that this same power draining bacteria would
have a detrimental effect on Horrors that are present astrally?

Could it be that FASA are trying to introduce a way for Shadowrun to
close the horrors problem and get back to a proper game again?

Thoughts, ideas. Go away comments?
:)

--
__ \ | \ __
| | _` | __| | / _ \ \ / _ \ __ \ _` | _ \ __|
| | ( | | < ___ \ \ / __/ | | ( | __/ |
____/ \__,_|_| _|\_\ _/ _\ \_/ \___|_| _|\__, |\___|_|
A Dark Shadow in a Dark World |___/
Web page at: http://www.shalako.demon.co.uk
Message no. 8
From: VÃL <ltwiss@********.COM>
Subject: Re: the argument about everything
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 15:38:36 +0000
If memory serves correctly, Avenger wrote:

> Question. This is not something that's likely to affect the list in
> much of a manner, but if one follows the "astrally aware bacteria"
> thingy that FASA stuffed into Target:UCAS to kill off the Chicago bugs,
> would it not be possible that this same power draining bacteria would
> have a detrimental effect on Horrors that are present astrally?

<ee-vael grin> Interesting.

> Could it be that FASA are trying to introduce a way for Shadowrun to
> close the horrors problem and get back to a proper game again?

Yes,... and no. The game will never be the same, or like the
original. The older lovers of SR crave the old gritty, while the
newbies want more magic and more options for character creation. "A
Runner? <shrug> I want to be a corp exec that chooses who lives and
who dies! wait... how about a Lone Star cop? or a Astronaut?" etc...

I can see the horror threads going away with the gengineering of
Strain III, but SR will never be the same gritty world it once was.

> Thoughts, ideas. Go away comments?

"Get out of sandbox!" <smile>

Vael.
Message no. 9
From: Jaimie Nicholson <jaimie.nicholson@********.OTAGO.AC.NZ>
Subject: Re: the argument about everything
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 11:30:37 +1200
>...the "astrally aware bacteria"
>thingy that FASA stuffed into Target:UCAS to kill off the Chicago bugs,

Target Ucas? Is that the 2058 state of the union address or whatever it's
called? Anyone got a copy of the speech? Whatever product it was in should
probably be out in New Zealand by 1999.

PLAYTHING OF A CRUEL GOD
JAIMIE NICHOLSON
Message no. 10
From: Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: the argument about everything
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 01:34:00 +0100
In article <v01540b00affee6b76234@[139.80.126.60]>, Jaimie Nicholson
<jaimie.nicholson@********.OTAGO.AC.NZ> rambled on endlessly about the
argument about everything
>>...the "astrally aware bacteria"
>>thingy that FASA stuffed into Target:UCAS to kill off the Chicago bugs,
>
>Target Ucas? Is that the 2058 state of the union address or whatever it's
>called?

Nope, it's a sourcebook.

Covering United Canadian & American States (sort of update, and a bit
more on politics and Dunky)

Boston, Detroit and a Chicago update.

It's a sort of this is where we are now book, with a few extra bits.
For a sourcebook of the level it promised it's a bit thin at 102 pages,
but there you go.

>Anyone got a copy of the speech? Whatever product it was in should
>probably be out in New Zealand by 1999.

The State of the Union speech is available on the FASA website, if you
don't have WWW access, let me know and I'll send the speech to you over
mail, I'm sure FASA won't mind.


--
__ \ | \ __
| | _` | __| | / _ \ \ / _ \ __ \ _` | _ \ __|
| | ( | | < ___ \ \ / __/ | | ( | __/ |
____/ \__,_|_| _|\_\ _/ _\ \_/ \___|_| _|\__, |\___|_|
A Dark Shadow in a Dark World |___/
Web page at: http://www.shalako.demon.co.uk

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.