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Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: Gawain Emrys Ap Geoffrey <g.l.g.steele@**********.ac.uk>
Subject: The Shadow Community.
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 10:31:45 PST
On Tue, 23 Jan 1996 17:00:05 -0500 Mark L. Neidengard wrote:

> Well, I'm not sure exactly how much of a "community" the
> "shadow community" is to begin with.

Personally I think that the Shadow Community is
pretty extensive and well-defined. It is most obvious in the
concept of 'Runner Bars (like my own Club'd To Death) where
you can virtually (or in CTD, actually) guarantee that the
guy stood next to you runs the shadows like you do. Very few
people living in the shadows can't call on a large number of
other 'runners in an emergancy, that's what contacts are all
about, and if there wasn't such a cohesive community then
the individuals involved would have long since been wiped
from the sprawls. The only real issue is in where it
overlaps with the Corporate and Ganger communities and in
what kind of class structure exists within it (there
certainly existed a class-difference in the 'runners in my
last group).

Just my fractional-nuyen worth.

PS. If anyone is interested in more info on the Club'd To
Death (silent d in Club'd) then ask me, it's a useful
hangout for 'runners.

************************************************************
* * *
* GAWAIN EMRYS AP GEOFFREY * "It's a pink rabbit in space, *
* * It can pretty much do what it *
* OBO: Chablis Roleplaying * wants!" *
* Production * - My Mother *
* * *
************************************************************
* "And now they're trying to take my life away,... *
* ...They don't know my name, they don't know my kind." *
* - The Alarm : 68 Guns *
************************************************************
Message no. 2
From: mneideng@****.caltech.edu (Mark L. Neidengard)
Subject: Re: The Shadow Community.
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 19:27:44 -0800 (PST)
According to Gawain Emrys Ap Geoffrey:
>
> > Well, I'm not sure exactly how much of a "community" the
> > "shadow community" is to begin with.
>
> Personally I think that the Shadow Community is
> pretty extensive and well-defined. It is most obvious in the
> concept of 'Runner Bars (like my own Club'd To Death) where
> you can virtually (or in CTD, actually) guarantee that the
> guy stood next to you runs the shadows like you do. Very few

I actually don't really buy this concept at all. There aren't _that_ many
runners out there to make such a concept feasible. If you take New York, for
example, and consider the ratio of runners to populace, there just _aren't_
that many. Also, if there was something as well established as a "runner bar"
someone might well snitch it to Lone Star (or someone else) and all hell would
break loose.

> people living in the shadows can't call on a large number of
> other 'runners in an emergancy, that's what contacts are all
> about,

Contacts are not about the ability to call on a "large number" of other runners
in an emergency. Contacts are about the people you're personally down with.
In fact, in a real-world scenario, the runners would probably be at odds with
each other on an irregular basis.

and if there wasn't such a cohesive community then
> the individuals involved would have long since been wiped
> from the sprawls. The only real issue is in where it
> overlaps with the Corporate and Ganger communities and in
> what kind of class structure exists within it (there
> certainly existed a class-difference in the 'runners in my
> last group).

What Shadowrunners are are people who can occasionally be contacted (and paid)
to do illegal or quasi-illegal things. Such people exist in current-day
society, although perhaps in smaller numbers than posited in Shadowrun. You
should see the movie Heat for an _incredible_ depiction of exactly how that
works. Shadowrunners can stay around by being inconspicuous.
--
/!\/!ark /!\!eidengard, CS Major, VLSI. http://www.cacr.caltech.edu/~mneideng
"Fairy of sleep, controller of illusions" Operator/Jack-of-all-Trades, CACR
"Control the person for my own purpose." "Don't mess with the Dark
Elves!"
-Pirotess, _Record_of_Lodoss_War_ Shadowrunner and Anime Addict
Message no. 3
From: Evan Hughes <ehughes@****.carleton.ca>
Subject: Re: The Shadow Community.
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 96 0:31:31 EST
Gawain Emrys Ap Geoffrey writes:
> > Well, I'm not sure exactly how much of a "community" the
> > "shadow community" is to begin with.
>
> Personally I think that the Shadow Community is
> pretty extensive and well-defined. It is most obvious in the
> concept of 'Runner Bars (like my own Club'd To Death) where

A few points:

*Runner bars are usually plot devices, and in most of the books, there is
no such thing as an _excusively_ runner bar, just a mean bar that a few
runners like to hang out in.
*Although there are decker bars, there is a BIG difference between the two.

*Runner bars (if they do exist) should be thought of in the same way as
the biker bars of today. Just because they exist doesn't mean there's any
level of cohesiveness to the local "community", its just a place for
wannabes and what ever is just above wannabes to hang out.

This isn't to say that runner bars in the game are bad, just that their
existance provides no conclusive proof of everything. If I were a runner
*grin* I don't think the best place to hang out would be a runner bar. WAY
too much attention. (and there could be some doof in there with a skullcam
and you would never know)

> other 'runners in an emergancy, that's what contacts are all
> about, and if there wasn't such a cohesive community then
> the individuals involved would have long since been wiped
> from the sprawls.

By the same arguement, biker gangs should not still exist. They do.
(how does cohesiveness help? When it comes to not being found out,
having a few tight contacts is mucher better than lots of contacts of any
type...)

> The only real issue is in where it
> overlaps with the Corporate and Ganger communities and in
> what kind of class structure exists within it (there
> certainly existed a class-difference in the 'runners in my
> last group).

Class difference shouldn't come into consideration. A team would have to
be fairly closeknit to be effective, and you can't afford to have even
nominal snobbery in something you stake your life on...


Evan Hughes
Honours Computer Science
http://chat.carleton.ca/~ehughes

Further Reading

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