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Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: jaimie.nicholson@********.otago.ac.nz (Jaimie Nicholson)
Subject: Time date stamp (a new twist in the shocking controversy)
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 13:36:14 +1200 (NZST)
It's been whole minutes since I last started a major argument. Forget about
the time/date stamps, can you change your name all the time? Is it
something only a decking god can do? Do we assume that S-land reads the ID
chips off our decks, and inserts the name automatically, or that we, the
deckers in question, have to type our name each time we post (or use a .sig
file, I guess)? Does it matter, and is this going to turn into a big deal
like the watcher issue (which, BTW, I'm sorry I ever brought up)?

PLAYTHING OF A CRUEL GOD...
JAIMIE NICHOLSON
Message no. 2
From: winter@******.med.harvard.edu
Subject: Time date stamp (a new twist in the shocking controversy)
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 21:42:36 -0400
Well, you could just use a new persona each time,
or, a new deck each time
or, a new remote location (a public acess machine)
or, break into other's accounts and post from there...


the list goes on....


-winter
Message no. 3
From: winter@******.med.harvard.edu
Subject: Time date stamp (a new twist in the shocking controversy)
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 21:46:57 -0400
Jaimie, could you send me your adress? I have a few questions for
you...

-winter
winter@******.med.harvard.edu
Message no. 4
From: Evan Hughes <ehughes@****.carleton.ca>
Subject: Re: Time date stamp (a new twist in the shocking controversy)
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 96 22:44:34 EDT
Jaimie Nicholson writes:
> chips off our decks, and inserts the name automatically, or that we, the
> deckers in question, have to type our name each time we post (or use a .sig
> file, I guess)? Does it matter, and is this going to turn into a big deal
> like the watcher issue (which, BTW, I'm sorry I ever brought up)?

This is a very good/dangerous discussion. It's impossible to start
discussing mechanics without getting into Deep Mechanics, which I have no
problem with, but would be highly divisive. Not that I have too much of a
problem with that either, but... =)

(This is assuming the board can't read something from your brain itself.
Sort of like a netscape cookie, but so much more biologic... =)


Evan Hughes | Webmaster
Honours Computer Science | Carleton Computer Science Society
http://chat.carleton.ca/~ehughes | http://omega.scs.carleton.ca/~ccss
.. code code code eat code code code code code sleep code code code code ..
Message no. 5
From: Nightblade <wgreason@*****.ocis.temple.edu>
Subject: Re: Time date stamp (a new twist in the shocking controversy)
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 23:36:13 -0400 (EDT)
hee hee hee... I'd hoped my poststyle would start something. Winter's on the
right path with what Rosha does. She's not a decking god, nor inordinately
rich. So that limits the ability to change signatures to only a few
possibilities.

As a mage, with the limited ability to deck, Rosha operates as a tortoise.
She basically hacks other people's accounts from their workstations and
writes her mail from there. She then deletes her message from the real
user's
sent mailbox and goes on her way.

It's absolutely amazing how many pedestrians and dirty-collars there are
in the greater Seattle metroplex!!! The interesting (yet probably totally
unfounded) quirk is that whatever the realuser's previous mail was from
that site, that comes up as the subject line.

Now, let the crucification of this method begin! :)

peace
Dave
Message no. 6
From: Mark Imbriaco <mark@******.net>
Subject: Re: Time date stamp (a new twist in the shocking controversy)
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 10:50:52 -0400 (EDT)
On Mon, 3 Jun 1996 winter@******.med.harvard.edu wrote:

> Well, you could just use a new persona each time,
> or, a new deck each time
> or, a new remote location (a public acess machine)
> or, break into other's accounts and post from there...

You certainly could, but none of those will change your TD
stamp one iota. They might change the signature at the bottom
of the message, but the T/D mechanics have nothing to do
with the deck, persona, location, or account that you are
using. T/D's are stamped onto the messages by the recipient
server, not the sender. *THAT* is what makes them harder
to change than some seem to realize..

-Mark
Message no. 7
From: winter@******.med.harvard.edu
Subject: Re: Time date stamp (a new twist in the shocking controversy
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 11:27:39 -0400
Mark that list was was to change the name, nothing else.

I do agree that it should be niegh impossible to change the
time/date bit. Also the work would have to be done _each_
time.

What a bitch.


That's why none of my character's do it. At least one
reason...



-winter
Message no. 8
From: ANGLISS BRIAN EDWARD <angliss@****.Colorado.EDU>
Subject: Re: Time date stamp (a new twist in the shocking controversy
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 10:12:08 -0600 (MDT)
Another FYI.

I've been on the list almost since it started, and I've got one character
who does so on rare occasions. Dante could, but he had to be showed how
to do it and he's dead. Solitaire could, but she had the entire resources
of Maxim Arms behind her too, and she's also dead.

Mercury can, but he almost never does because his method of doing so is a
bit rough on the hardware. That's it. None of my other characters can,
even though some of them(AJ comes immediately to mind) probably have the
resources to do so, in some way or another. But AJ's not a decker, and I
have a problem with non-deckers changing thier T/D stamps at all, on
personal general principles.

Brian
Message no. 9
From: NIGHTFOX <djwa@******.UCC.NAU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Time date stamp (a new twist in the shocking controversy)
Date: Tue, 04 Jun 1996 10:56:48 -0700 (MST)
> It's been whole minutes since I last started a major argument. Forget about
> the time/date stamps, can you change your name all the time? Is it
> something only a decking god can do? Do we assume that S-land reads the ID
> chips off our decks, and inserts the name automatically, or that we, the
> deckers in question, have to type our name each time we post (or use a .sig
> file, I guess)? Does it matter, and is this going to turn into a big deal
> like the watcher issue (which, BTW, I'm sorry I ever brought up)?


Shadowland is a BBS. So it possibly acts like BBS of today in that thwn
you enter you get an account and password. Mosty this would be to keep
people from posing as someone else. Thats all, it would give EVERYONE the
same acces (and if you wanted more you would have to hack the system, not
an easy thing)

Otherwise its just like an open physical bulletin board like those you find
on a college campus. You can post what ever you want and put whatever
name you want to.

Either way it is fairly easy to use another name besides the one you go by.


As for read the chips off you deck. You don't have them. Its what makes
your cyberdeck a cyberdeck and not a cyberterminal - you leave NO trails.



Nightfox
Message no. 10
From: Nightblade <wgreason@*****.ocis.temple.edu>
Subject: Re: Time date stamp (a new twist in the shocking controversy)
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 14:28:34 -0400 (EDT)
Good point in Nightfox' comments about the difficulty of being an
unregistered user in the Shadowland BBS. However, I think I can still
explain
what Rosha does. ...

She accesses the realuser's cyberterminal with their passcodes and ID
etc. Then from their mailbox, subscribes them onto Shadowland, (a la
shadowtk or shadowrn or plotd). She then takes care of her mail through
the realuser's now-subscribed acc't. Finally, she deletes any mails
that immediately get sent back to the realuser's terminal from the BBS.
And she unsubscribes the realuser from the Shadowland BBS. The only
way the realuser knows he's been violated is that the lastentry registration
from Rosha's access will be different from the last time the realuser
actually
used the terminal. But the realuser would have to be looking for that
info when he/she first logs on.


OK? (said hopefully . . .)

peace
Dave
Message no. 11
From: mneideng@****.caltech.edu (Mark L. Neidengard)
Subject: Re: Time date stamp (a new twist in the shocking controversy)
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 11:41:53 -0700 (PDT)
According to NIGHTFOX:
>Either way it is fairly easy to use another name besides the one you go by.

Although I rather suspect the sysops have a policy against having multiple
accounts and the penalty for discovery is at the very least the removal of
all the duplicates...

>As for read the chips off you deck. You don't have them. Its what makes
>your cyberdeck a cyberdeck and not a cyberterminal - you leave NO trails.

*bzz* Not quite, actually. =) It means that your deck doesn't stamp its
signature everywhere you go. This does not _preclude_ people from
performing a trace, and certain highly paranoid systems can record routing
information for _all_ traffic to a depth of several hops back towards the
originator. Having a cyberdeck simply means it's not _trivial_ to figure
out who was doing things, and where they were coming from.

For those in the know about Unix and networking, it's a bit like not
running authd.
--
/!\/!ark /!\!eidengard, CS Major, VLSI. http://www.cacr.caltech.edu/~mneideng
"Fairy of sleep, controller of illusions" Operator/Jack-of-all-Trades, CACR
"Control the person for my own purpose." "Don't mess with the Dark
Elves!"
-Pirotess, _Record_of_Lodoss_War_ Shadowrunner and Anime Addict
Message no. 12
From: mneideng@****.caltech.edu (Mark L. Neidengard)
Subject: Re: Time date stamp (a new twist in the shocking controversy)
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 11:43:01 -0700 (PDT)
According to Nightblade:
>She accesses the realuser's cyberterminal with their passcodes and ID
>etc. Then from their mailbox, subscribes them onto Shadowland, (a la
>shadowtk or shadowrn or plotd). She then takes care of her mail through
>the realuser's now-subscribed acc't. Finally, she deletes any mails
>that immediately get sent back to the realuser's terminal from the BBS.
>And she unsubscribes the realuser from the Shadowland BBS. The only
>way the realuser knows he's been violated is that the lastentry registration
>from Rosha's access will be different from the last time the realuser
>actually
>used the terminal. But the realuser would have to be looking for that
>info when he/she first logs on.
>
>OK? (said hopefully . . .)

Why not? It happens often enough in the real world (so to speak).
--
/!\/!ark /!\!eidengard, CS Major, VLSI. http://www.cacr.caltech.edu/~mneideng
"Fairy of sleep, controller of illusions" Operator/Jack-of-all-Trades, CACR
"Control the person for my own purpose." "Don't mess with the Dark
Elves!"
-Pirotess, _Record_of_Lodoss_War_ Shadowrunner and Anime Addict

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Thwap!