Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: James Dening james.dening@****.co.uk
Subject: Timedate stamps
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 17:00:01 +0100
Hi kids,

James, el cuddlio dread executor here. Over the last few months,
we have had about 7[1] new decker personae post fairly regularly on
s-tk. Problem is, 5 of 'em have circumvented the time/date stamp
on the LTG code. This is meant to signify *mega* novahot deckers,
and now it seems that every Tom, Dick and CyberPsycho can get
round it.

Hence, a quick conflab amongst us nice/nasty DEs, along with
the list owner has resulted in a little bit of a change.

There is now an updated version of the LTG protocol sweeping the
globe. By the time you read this :-)), it will have updated all your
local access nodes, and your time/date stamp spoofing *WILL
NO LONGER WORK*.

If you would like to spoof time/date stamps, then post a really big,
cool, interesting, wikkid (tm), post, detailing the run or whatever
you did to get it.

Sorry, Kawaii, but "My wizzer mate gave me this hack - ain't it
cool!" ain't enough! Although, kudos for actually posting
*something* that explained why you didn't have a valid t/d stamp.
<conciliatory pat on back>

So, to sum up.

1) None of your spoofs work no more. Nor does grammer my.
2) Feel free to complain on the live list about the fascist gits
at the GI matrix dept.
3) Start writing wizzer posts about your attempts to hack the
new LTG code, but PLEASE remember - it's meant to be a
rarity, like *really*. I don't think any of us want to see lots
of mega-deckers around. The whole point of it is, that's far,
far better used as a bit of mystery - like, "who is the mystery
decker?" Not just, "Yeah, our decker, Fred, can spoof 'em.
S'easy."

TTFN,

Jamesipoos.[2]


[1] All numbers +/- a bit. I can't remember. I'm old, me.
[2] Although obviously no-one would *ever* call me that to my
face..... ;-)
Message no. 2
From: kawaii trunks@********.org
Subject: Timedate stamps
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 14:50:39 -0400
From: "James Dening" <james.dening@****.co.uk>
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 12:00 PM


> Sorry, Kawaii, but "My wizzer mate gave me this hack - ain't it
> cool!" ain't enough! Although, kudos for actually posting
> *something* that explained why you didn't have a valid t/d stamp.
> <conciliatory pat on back>

hehe. :) I figure since I've been lurking on s-tk for a while now(I don't
even remember when i first started..) I'd give Tron finally a way to
circumvent the t/d stamp. Poor guy. ;) I almost feel bad for him. (and for
Kenshin, for the thrashing that Tron is going to give him. =P) As you could
prolly tell, it wasn't meant to be very effective, meaning that Kenshin
might have been a good coder, but he wans't megahot and could only get it to
work partially. ;) For Tron and Yakko, it was better than nothing, tho. ;)

All in all, no biggie. :)

Ever lovable and always scrappy,
kawaii
Message no. 3
From: Ratinac, Rand (NSW) RRatinac@*****.redcross.org.au
Subject: Timedate stamps
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 12:32:17 +1000
> There is now an updated version of the LTG protocol sweeping the globe. By
the time you read this :-)), it will have updated all your local access
nodes, and your time/date stamp spoofing *WILL NO LONGER WORK*.
>
> If you would like to spoof time/date stamps, then post a really big, cool,
interesting, wikkid (tm), post, detailing the run or whatever you did to get
it.

Grrrr...

Okay, what do I do in the case of Seraph? Point one - as James already
knows, I don't have the time to write another large post, but that condition
won't last forever, of course. Point two - Seraph is NOT the person who
performed the spoof. That person has not made an appearance on the list and
I don't want him/her to...yet...

So, Mr. DE-guys...what can I do to get her spoofiness back? Are you offering
any workarounds, or is this a flat ruling - Seraph can't spoof without me
doing a post from the appropriate decker?

Doc'
Message no. 4
From: Kjell Sawyer <sawyer@***.NO>
Subject: Time/Date Stamps
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 14:39:21 +0100
Hoi Y'all,
Is it just me, or are there others out there getting mighty tired
about every joker altering their time/date stamp? C'mon, it used to be
cool when only a select few top-notch deckers could pull off that trick,
now everyone is doing it! Show-offs!
Listen guys, there is (no matter how slim) a reason for each
posting being logged with a time/date stamp. If there was no reason, it
wouldn't be there.
I say leave such luxurious alterations to the legends. Us mortals
shouldn't be able to do that. However, just because your decker can, that
doesn't mean he has to flaunt it. Has anyone ever noticed Fastjack
screwing with his time/date stamp?
No, I didn't think so....

Sawyer/Genocide
Message no. 5
From: Freddy Frypp <JAMES-CUENO@*********.EDU>
Subject: Re: Time/Date Stamps
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 09:28:19 CST
> I say leave such luxurious alterations to the legends. Us mortals
> shouldn't be able to do that. However, just because your decker can, that
> doesn't mean he has to flaunt it. Has anyone ever noticed Fastjack
> screwing with his time/date stamp?
> No, I didn't think so....

Well, yeah, but the feel I've gotten for Fastjack is that he's much
more modest about his abilities than the only decker I've noticed in
the sourcebooks to have a modified <T/D>: the Smiling Bandit <Strikes
Again / Ha-Ha>. SB flaunts the fact that he's been everywhere,
seen everything and can do anything. If it's the deckers style to
brag up his abilities and contacts, I say go for it, just keep the
decker's personality loud and boastful.

Your average small-fish-in-a-big-ocean decker probably would not have
a modified <T/D>.

jim
Message no. 6
From: Mark Imbriaco <mark@********.IP.NET>
Subject: Re: Time/Date Stamps
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 11:21:32 -0500
On Thu, 16 Mar 1995, Kjell Sawyer wrote:

> Hoi Y'all,
> Is it just me, or are there others out there getting mighty tired
> about every joker altering their time/date stamp? C'mon, it used to be
> cool when only a select few top-notch deckers could pull off that trick,
> now everyone is doing it! Show-offs!

You're exactly right. I try to send mail to the owner of every
_new_ character I see with a modified T/D, just to drop a reminder
that only a select few should be able to mod that on a whim like
some listmembers are fond of doing. Another thing to remember is
that ShadowTK is supposed to be that ShadowLand BBS which is quite
elite to begin with, so if someone has access to it, they're
probably not some weekend hobbyist, so a decent number of modified
T/D's may not be completely far-fetched.

mark

_____ _ |\ o|\ | ______ I n t e r n e t P r e s e n c e & Publishing
| / | \ || \ |\ |__ | 1700 World Trade Center ofc: 804.446.9060
| \_ |_/.||_/.| \|\_ | Norfolk, Virginia 23510 fax: 804.446.9061
| | www: http://www.ip.net/ email: mark@***.ip.net
============================================================================
(GEEK CODE 2.1) GB/GCS/GE d? H s g+(-) !p au+ a- w+ v++ C++++
UX(L)(B)(A)(S)(I)(V)++++$ P++++$ L+++($) 3+ E+ N++ K++
W--- M+ V -po+ Y++ t+@ 5+++ j++ R+++ G+('''') tv+ b+++ D++
B--- e+(*) u+ h+(*) f+ r++ n---(----) x+
Message no. 7
From: Tim Skirvin <tskirvin@***.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Time/Date Stamps
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 10:35:41 -0600
> doesn't mean he has to flaunt it. Has anyone ever noticed Fastjack
> screwing with his time/date stamp?

Yes. Once. He messed with some others' TD's at the time, too.

From Denver Sourcebo(ok|x), if you care to look.

My thought on the matter: it should be possibly for most deckers to
do it. Once. Just remember that every time you do it you're making a VERY
conscious effort to do so, and that most of the time it's more trouble than
it's worth.

I still remember an incident a while back where somebody (no names)
said that their char had written a T/D changer when they were 12; I was having
my char, at the time, fill her entire deck with it, AND make a conscious effort
and do a lot of work to change it anyway. Not something to be done lightly.
It was almost laughable how this person then went on about just having a
5MP program do it for him all the time... <grin>

--
Tim Skirvin (tskirvin@****.edu)
Message no. 8
From: Kjell Sawyer <sawyer@***.NO>
Subject: Re: Time/Date Stamps
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 18:07:17 +0100
> > I say leave such luxurious alterations to the legends. Us mortals
> > shouldn't be able to do that. However, just because your decker can, that
> > doesn't mean he has to flaunt it. Has anyone ever noticed Fastjack
> > screwing with his time/date stamp?
> > No, I didn't think so....
>
> Well, yeah, but the feel I've gotten for Fastjack is that he's much
> more modest about his abilities than the only decker I've noticed in
> the sourcebooks to have a modified <T/D>: the Smiling Bandit <Strikes
> Again / Ha-Ha>. SB flaunts the fact that he's been everywhere,
> seen everything and can do anything. If it's the deckers style to
> brag up his abilities and contacts, I say go for it, just keep the
> decker's personality loud and boastful.

Okay, I could buy that except for the fact that fucking around with your
time/date stamp isn't any special anymore. There is something more to a
decker's style than bragging, and that is originality. So the Smiling
Bandit made a new trademark, big deal. Xeroxing other's ideas is the
first and formost sign of a wannabe! If you want your decker to seem
cool, GET ORIGINAL, or stick to the program.

Sawyer/Genocide
Message no. 9
From: Kjell Sawyer <sawyer@***.NO>
Subject: Re: Time/Date Stamps
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 18:15:19 +0100
> > Hoi Y'all,
> > Is it just me, or are there others out there getting mighty tired
> > about every joker altering their time/date stamp? C'mon, it used to be
> > cool when only a select few top-notch deckers could pull off that trick,
> > now everyone is doing it! Show-offs!
>
> You're exactly right. I try to send mail to the owner of every
> _new_ character I see with a modified T/D, just to drop a reminder
> that only a select few should be able to mod that on a whim like
> some listmembers are fond of doing. Another thing to remember is
> that ShadowTK is supposed to be that ShadowLand BBS which is quite
> elite to begin with, so if someone has access to it, they're
> probably not some weekend hobbyist, so a decent number of modified
> T/D's may not be completely far-fetched.

Well, like I replied to Jim/Freddy Frypp (I belive...), it isn't only
about showing off how good you are, it is about being original (An aspect
of decking clearly presented in Chris Kubasik's Virtual Reality:
Lucifer's Reality Filter). I'll agree there isn't much you can do about the
posting format, but altering the time/date stamp is really getting *old*!
Respect is due the Smiling Bandit, but to you others - please think of
something new and improved!

Sawyer/Genocide
Message no. 10
From: Kjell Sawyer <sawyer@***.NO>
Subject: Re: Time/Date Stamps
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 18:26:24 +0100
> > doesn't mean he has to flaunt it. Has anyone ever noticed Fastjack
> > screwing with his time/date stamp?
>
> Yes. Once. He messed with some others' TD's at the time, too.

Fair enough, I stand corrected :)

> My thought on the matter: it should be possibly for most deckers to
> do it. Once. Just remember that every time you do it you're making a VERY
> conscious effort to do so, and that most of the time it's more trouble than
> it's worth.

Yeah, well, actually *doing* it isn't what ticks me off. I figure any
decker worth his electrons *can* do if they, as you say, make a conscious
effort to do so. However, then they're pulling the stunt off to enhance a
joke or in some other way make a special point. In such a situation I
agree it can be cool.

> I still remember an incident a while back where somebody (no names)
> said that their char had written a T/D changer when they were 12; I was having
> my char, at the time, fill her entire deck with it, AND make a conscious effort
> and do a lot of work to change it anyway. Not something to be done lightly.
> It was almost laughable how this person then went on about just having a
> 5MP program do it for him all the time... <grin>

A friend of mine has played the same character for about 4-5 years (a
decker), and he has a deck built from scratch to a MPCP rating of 16, and
his Computer, Computer B/R and Computer Theory skills are 14, 12 and 10
respectivly (modified my a SPU: Math [4] ). He refused to screw around
with his time/date stamp because he considers his own character NOT GOOD
ENOUGH to do such a thing.

Funny how different people conceive things so differently :)

Sawyer/Genocide
Message no. 11
From: Mike Goldberg <m_goldberg@**.COLORADO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Time/Date Stamps
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 10:55:41 MST
Which raises the question of Flute modifiying hers since she is only
7 years old. (or was it 9?)

M.

M_GOLDBERG@**.colorado.edu
Message no. 12
From: Geoffrey Gerrietts <phinar@**.CENCOM.NET>
Subject: Re: Time/Date Stamps
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 14:17:58 -0600
>> Is it just me, or are there others out there getting mighty tired
>> about every joker altering their time/date stamp? C'mon, it used to be
>> cool when only a select few top-notch deckers could pull off that trick,
>> now everyone is doing it! Show-offs!
>
> You're exactly right. I try to send mail to the owner of every
> _new_ character I see with a modified T/D, just to drop a reminder
> that only a select few should be able to mod that on a whim like
> some listmembers are fond of doing.

The whole t/d thing has me a bit confused, too. I mean, *in theory* it's
burned into the MPCP of a deck, right? Would make sense if a deck was as
personal as, say, a jockstrap, but how many times have any of you with
computers washed it with bleach when a friend wants to borrow it <G>? Sure,
a computer ID makes some sense, but one would expect that it would do a
Un*x-like login/userid thing rather than insist that anyone who used the
deck was going to be such-and-such.

Additionally, the first volume of NERPS (Shadowlore) featured a description
of how to alter those buggers. Neither fun *nor* practical, unless you had
something to gain by it. Hotdogging is, in some folks eyes, worth this.

Now none of my currently moving characters are *expert* deckers. However,
one has a software utility to fix her t/d, largely due to the unfortunate
naming scheme her deck bears. But I have a couple questions about that. Say
she has two decks, or three. Be easy for all three to have different t/d's,
yes? what about a collection of MPCP chips? Sure, hardly worth trying to
sneak through customs, but from the raw mail I get, I could say that 6 or 7
mailboxes might be a really good thing to have access to.

Also, if she got a chip cooked in Europe, wouldn't it be likely that the T/D
would take on the "original" date format described in TNO? I've been
approximating that because it suits her developing personality to sequence
the units of time in a "logical" order, but I must say the FAQ leaves me
wondering.

So maybe t/d alteration is saved for top-notch deckers and their pals. But
who's to say what that category contains, after all, and who's to say the
egos involved wouldn't be willing to pay the performance costs?

<G>

"DOS=HIGH? I knew it was on
SOMETHING!"

MQU/CH S G- Q+ 9++ y W++(-) C N+
Message no. 13
From: Tim Skirvin <tskirvin@***.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Time/Date Stamps
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 14:47:20 -0600
> The whole t/d thing has me a bit confused, too. I mean, *in theory*
> it's burned into the MPCP of a deck, right? Would make sense if a
> deck was as

Actually, I think it's got nothing to do with the deck, except
for its own internal timer.

Instead, it draws in the Time and Date from external sources.
The clock on the deck is the start; then comes the time on the system you're
in (and nobody had better try changing Shadowland's T/D). From there, you
get a few external systems that are checked in case of an error.

In other words, to change it, you've got to do a LOT. The things
are hard-wired into your posts.

Yes, there are ways to change them, but they're difficult.

I think.

--
Tim Skirvin (tskirvin@****.edu)
Message no. 14
From: Brian Rogers <rogers@****.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Time/Date Stamps
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 15:11:55 -0600
> Actually, I think it's got nothing to do with the deck, except
> for its own internal timer.
>
> Instead, it draws in the Time and Date from external sources.
> The clock on the deck is the start; then comes the time on the system you're
> in (and nobody had better try changing Shadowland's T/D). From there, you
> get a few external systems that are checked in case of an error.
>
> In other words, to change it, you've got to do a LOT. The things
> are hard-wired into your posts.

In RL (real life) the time and date are set on the recieving machine not
on the sending machine. There are some ways to spoof the recieving machine`
into thinking that its another time / date but its too much of a pain in
the ass to do unless you REALLY need to make sure someone recieves mail
from you posted "yesterday".
Message no. 15
From: Gian-Paolo Musumeci <musumeci@***.LIS.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Time/Date Stamps
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 15:38:52 -0600
In my humble opinion, if you're good enough, you get to fiddle with your T/D
stamp. Not everybody should be able to pull it off. But then again, I don't
think there's been that much abuse of said going around these days.

GP
Message no. 16
From: Hunter <hunter@******.STAT.COM>
Subject: Re: Time/Date Stamps
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 20:28:42 MST
Here's another gray area for you all. What about non-deckers having a
modified T/D stamp? I'm not talking about making their own. As an
example, my rigger, Ripley, his girlfriend is a decker. And he has
several friends who are deckers. If one of them figured how to modify,
would they not be able to set up something for him? I've used modified
T/D stamps on three of my characters, only one of whom is a decker. And
what about something similar to real life BBS's tagline managers? You
know, the ones for offline mail readers. The program can carry several
_dozen_ taglines. Honestly, I can't believe that something so primitive
could not still be found in a mutated form in 2056...

Sorry, started babbling. But think about it.

Hunter

----
hunter@******.stat.com (Hunter)
'the computer handyman' - 602/548-9706
Message no. 17
From: Tim Skirvin <tskirvin@***.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Time/Date Stamps
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 23:08:33 -0600
> what about something similar to real life BBS's tagline managers?
> You know, the ones for offline mail readers. The program can carry
> several

Those would be fine, I'd have to say, as long as they were
embedded in the message. Making them the T/D...no way.

Oh, and yes, I'd have to say that only deckers should be able
to modify their T/D, if for no other reason than their decks are the only
ones that could deal with it...

--
Tim Skirvin (tskirvin@****.edu)
Message no. 18
From: "Thomas W. Craig" <Craigtw1@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Time/Date Stamps
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 1995 01:57:07 -0500
I only have one character that modifies his T/D Stamp...and that's
Buzz...He's not a show-off...he only uses the same modification...until he
runs into another Human Bee. <G>
Tom
Message no. 19
From: Geoffrey Gerrietts <phinar@**.CENCOM.NET>
Subject: Re: Time/Date Stamps
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 1995 01:05:48 -0600
> Oh, and yes, I'd have to say that only deckers should be able
>to modify their T/D, if for no other reason than their decks are the only
>ones that could deal with it...

This isn't to pounce, but something I've noticed that does bother me a
little bit. Tell me, if you could: what is a decker? It seems to me that one
of the many strengths of the SR game system is that a PC (or even --
especially -- an NPC) doesn't have to conform to the archetypes. Or more
simply, you don't have to be caught in the "character class" trap. Tell me
about the sammy with a datajack and a matrix programming specialization. Is
he a decker? What about the mage who uses some of the "trust fund" to buy a
Fairlight -- so she won't have any trouble getting onto MNet or Shadowland?
Are they deckers? I would bet that someone thusly equipped would beat the
tears out of your basic decker archetype, magic problems or not.

My point is, I think, that it is not inconceivable that *anyone* could be
considered a "decker" for the above purposes, especially if their close
friends spent a lot of time developing and kicked out the freebies.
<G>

"DOS=HIGH? I knew it was on
SOMETHING!"

MQU/CH S G- Q+ 9++ y W++(-) C N+
Message no. 20
From: Tim Skirvin <tskirvin@***.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Time/Date Stamps
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 1995 02:24:02 -0600
> This isn't to pounce, but something I've noticed that does bother
> me a little bit. Tell me, if you could: what is a decker? It seems
> to me that one

Someone with a decent deck.

There. How's THAT for subjective?

Basically, the requirements are that they know what they're doing
with a computer, and have the deck that can handle it. That's about the
only REAL requirement for it...

(Actually, when I wrote that, I thought that. Argh.)

--
Tim Skirvin (tskirvin@****.edu)
Message no. 21
From: Kjell Sawyer <sawyer@***.NO>
Subject: Re: Time/Date Stamps
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 1995 10:39:46 +0100
> My point is, I think, that it is not inconceivable that *anyone* could be
> considered a "decker" for the above purposes, especially if their close
> friends spent a lot of time developing and kicked out the freebies.

Well, here is a counter-question: There are dozens of us here on
Shadowtk, and thousands of us here on InterNet. Tell me, though: How many
of us are Hackers?

I think that to consider a character a decker, computer operation must
mbe his prime concentration. Sure, Sammies deck, so does the occasional
masochistic mage. However, they concetrate most of their efforts on
fighting and spellweaving, respectivly.

Take for instance the character I mentioned earlier. He has put down his
"decker" title because he has become increasingly intrested in actual
physical security penetration. Se he now terms himself a "sneaker". His
decking skills, excellent as they are, are now secondary skills, thus he
feels its not fair to call himself a decker anymore.

Sawyer/Genocide
Message no. 22
From: Mike Ruane <Nethicus@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Time/Date Stamps
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 00:44:36 -0500
Sawyer/Genocide wrote:

>Hoi Y'all,
> Is it just me, or are there others out there getting mighty tired
>about every joker altering their time/date stamp? C'mon, it used to be
>cool when only a select few top-notch deckers could pull off that trick,
>now everyone is doing it! Show-offs!
> Listen guys, there is (no matter how slim) a reason for each
>posting being logged with a time/date stamp. If there was no reason, it
>wouldn't be there.
> I say leave such luxurious alterations to the legends. Us mortals
>shouldn't be able to do that. However, just because your decker can, that
>doesn't mean he has to flaunt it. Has anyone ever noticed Fastjack
>screwing with his time/date stamp?
> No, I didn't think so....

Granted a lot of people on the list do screw with their time/date stamps, the
Smiling Bandit's little trick wouldn't stay hidden for very long. If you
wanted to impress people in Shadowland, what would you do? Pop up and lurk
and post every once and a while with a normal time date stamp, or would you
try to show your prowess in ways such as altering a time date stamp? If you
think about it, there are a lot of wann-bes out there who learned a little
trick and think they're hot stuff. However, if you're Fastjack, you don't
need to prove you're hot stuff. Everyone already KNOWS it.

Mike, TGC
Message no. 23
From: The Fount of Evil <phinar@**.CENCOM.NET>
Subject: Re: Time/Date Stamps
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 00:43:53 -0600
>> This isn't to pounce, but something I've noticed that does bother
>> me a little bit. Tell me, if you could: what is a decker? It seems
>> to me that one
>
> Someone with a decent deck.
>
> There. How's THAT for subjective?

At least as precise as MS's software team ;) -- guess we won't worry about
applying any Heisenberg variables to this one...

(I have a hard time shaking the ol' class notion, too. Too many years of
fascist roleplaying systems, I guess...)

<G>

"QUICK! POP A GRENADE!"

MQU/CH S G- Q+ 9++ y W++(-) C N+
Message no. 24
From: Gian-Paolo Musumeci <musumeci@***.LIS.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Time/Date Stamps
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 10:01:08 -0600
ERROR: This message seems to be empty. It is located at LOG9503C.PLO::82075,268.
Message no. 25
From: Dvixen <dvixen@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Time/date stamps
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 23:04:42 -0800
> > |I'm a bit new, and this is probably a FAQ, but what time zone do we
use to
> > |timestamp our posts? The one we're in?
> >
> > You can, but it causes one hell of a lot of confusion...
> > (As we found out earlier this autumn...)
> >
> > Use GMT if possible... That's an internationally recognised standard
and
> > easy enough to work out from your own location.....
>
> But it makes more sense to use Seattle, if that's where you're at, or
Chicago,
> or wherever you are. So that everyone knows, Seattle is Pacific (GMT
-800) and
> Chicago is Central (GMT -600)

I'd say GMT is the best suggestion for a standard. Sure, it does make
some sense to use Seattle's Time Zone as the standard, because Shadowrun
was originally set there, but since then, not everything happens revolving
around Seattle. (Or Chicago, etc)

Also, I prefer the European Time stamps in the sourcebooks, that use the
15-Nov-57 method. The other way does create some confusion as to which
month the posts originated in, at least for the first 12 days of each
month. :)

Another suggestion of Time Stamp alteration could be:

-- Whoever <15:23:00-0800/15-NOV-57>

With the -0800 indicating how far Whoever is from GMT.

Sure, it isn't what is Canon in the source books. What is Canon does make
sense, but in actual application, it is getting us bogged down. We have
posters from all over the world, who probably do know the conversion to
GMT from where they are. One definite standard, rather than 'wherever
your character is' would kill some confusion before it even begins.

--
Dvixen/Snow Leopard/Celt dvixen@********.com
"Snow Melts"
The opinions expressed are those of the myriad voices in my head
Message no. 26
From: olafur gunnarsson <olafurg@******.IS>
Subject: Re: Time/date stamps
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 17:58:22 GMT
Has anyone done any thinking about changing the time date stamps into the
ones used in the most recent sublements a simple >. i think this would make
things much more easy all around. And clear up a lot of confusion, with new
posters.
-Olafur G
Message no. 27
From: Brad Shantz <BRADS@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Time/date stamps
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 10:08:14 -0800
Good point, Olafur. However, I think I'd have to say that the
timestamps should match the timestamps in the main Shadowrun book. Why?
Well, not everyone has the new supplements. Not everyone even buys any
of the new books. So, the standard should be based around what the
BASE standard is for the game. That's the main book.

My $0.02

Brad


>----------
>From: olafur gunnarsson[SMTP:olafurg@******.IS]
>Sent: Friday, November 15, 1996 9:58 AM
>To: PLOTD@********.ITRIBE.NET
>Subject: Re: Time/date stamps
>
>Has anyone done any thinking about changing the time date stamps into
>the
>ones used in the most recent sublements a simple >. i think this would
>make
>things much more easy all around. And clear up a lot of confusion, with
>new
>posters.
>-Olafur G
>
Message no. 28
From: Benjamin <benjamin@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Time/date stamps
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 16:41:30 PST
>Good point, Olafur. However, I think I'd have to say that the
>timestamps should match the timestamps in the main Shadowrun book. Why?
> Well, not everyone has the new supplements. Not everyone even buys any
>of the new books. So, the standard should be based around what the
>BASE standard is for the game. That's the main book.

Good argument, Brad, but I don't think there ARE any timestamps in the
main book, and that it has nothing but rules and the short story at
the front. No Shadowland at all. If anyone can find one of those posts
in SRII, I'll cheerfully admit I'm wrong.
Message no. 29
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Time/date stamps
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 16:08:48 -0500
At 04:41 PM 11/14/96 PST, Benjamin wrote:
>>Good point, Olafur. However, I think I'd have to say that the
>>timestamps should match the timestamps in the main Shadowrun book. Why?
>> Well, not everyone has the new supplements. Not everyone even buys any
>>of the new books. So, the standard should be based around what the
>>BASE standard is for the game. That's the main book.
>
>Good argument, Brad, but I don't think there ARE any timestamps in the
>main book, and that it has nothing but rules and the short story at
>the front. No Shadowland at all. If anyone can find one of those posts
>in SRII, I'll cheerfully admit I'm wrong.
>
You're right, Benjamin... There are none in the main book.

Granted, they ARE throughout most of the main sourcebooks, but... The new
style is the "Official" style atopted by FASA which is now used in
Shadowland 2.0. It is the style that is supposed to be used in ALL future
SR publications...

-Steve


=======================================================
= Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich =
= =
= chaos@*****,com =
= =
= "Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?" =
=======================================================

"Thug, meet wall. Wall, meet Thug. Play nice."
-Spider-Man (from an issue i read 9 years ago)
Message no. 30
From: MAGECK <YBKB@*****.IUP.EDU>
Subject: Re: Time/date stamps
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 02:47:07 -0400
What book did this new style start in and when did it come out. I have never
seen anything in any book that resembled what was suggested as the new format.
********************************************************************************
This message was brought to you by WOLFSDEN INDUSTRIES
a division of MAGECK ENTERPRISES
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Adam E. Buchanan | MAGECK
"One Dream One Soul One Prize One Goal" | YBKB@***.grove.iup.edu
The Howl of the wolf is a beautiful thing| GRAYWOLF
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 31
From: Dvixen <dvixen@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Time/date stamps
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 00:00:13 -0800
> What book did this new style start in and when did it come out. I have
never
> seen anything in any book that resembled what was suggested as the new
format.

If you are referring to the suggestions that look something like these:

-- Whoever <23:58:13 -0800/17-NOV-57>
-- Whatever <23:58:16 PST/17-11-57>

AFAIK, they do no appear in any source books, they were merely suggested
to clear any possible confusion inherent to the 'official' time/date
stamps.

--
Dvixen/Snow Leopard/Celt dvixen@********.com
"Snow Melts"
The opinions expressed are those of the myriad voices in my head
Message no. 32
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Time/date stamps
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 02:51:52 -0800
> What book did this new style start in and when did it come out. I have never
> seen anything in any book that resembled what was suggested as the new format.

I believe this format first appeared in the Sourcebook -
Dunkelzhan:Portfolio of a Dragon.
It is also visible on FASA's Shadowrun page at
http://www.fasa.com/Shadowrun

Steven A. Tinner
Message no. 33
From: MAGECK <YBKB@*****.IUP.EDU>
Subject: Re: Time/date stamps
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 02:58:30 -0400
no it was something that had the format of the entire message changed.
something like this:
>well that went really well<
__ Bob the wonder puppy<00:00:00/17-NOV-57>
********************************************************************************
This message was brought to you by WOLFSDEN INDUSTRIES
a division of MAGECK ENTERPRISES
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Adam E. Buchanan | MAGECK
"One Dream One Soul One Prize One Goal" | YBKB@***.grove.iup.edu
The Howl of the wolf is a beautiful thing| GRAYWOLF
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 34
From: MAGECK <YBKB@*****.IUP.EDU>
Subject: Re: Time/date stamps
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 03:00:56 -0400
Someone mentioned that it was from shadowland 2.0? I have never heard of that.
I wonder if they meant Virtual realities 2.0, but in that it was the format we
use on here in stead it used (00:00:00/00-00-00) in stead of the <>.
********************************************************************************
This message was brought to you by WOLFSDEN INDUSTRIES
a division of MAGECK ENTERPRISES
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Adam E. Buchanan | MAGECK
"One Dream One Soul One Prize One Goal" | YBKB@***.grove.iup.edu
The Howl of the wolf is a beautiful thing| GRAYWOLF
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 35
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Time/date stamps
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 03:19:23 -0500
At 12:00 AM 11/18/96 -0800, Dvixen wrote:
>> What book did this new style start in and when did it come out. I have
>never
>> seen anything in any book that resembled what was suggested as the new
>format.
>
>If you are referring to the suggestions that look something like these:
>
> -- Whoever <23:58:13 -0800/17-NOV-57>
> -- Whatever <23:58:16 PST/17-11-57>
>
>AFAIK, they do no appear in any source books, they were merely suggested
>to clear any possible confusion inherent to the 'official' time/date
>stamps.
>
I believe he's referring to the new posting style from D's Will (Portfolio
of a Dragon) which just has the message with no brackets or anything, and
then the name at the end, with no time.date... It is supposed to be the
official, new posting style for Shadowrun... I think it was in one or two
other books as well.... Threats, maybe...

Steve


=======================================================
= Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich =
= =
= chaos@*****,com =
= =
= "Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?" =
=======================================================

"Thug, meet wall. Wall, meet Thug. Play nice."
-Spider-Man (from an issue i read 9 years ago)
Message no. 36
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Time/date stamps
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 03:22:50 -0500
At 02:58 AM 11/18/96 -0400, MAGECK wrote:
>no it was something that had the format of the entire message changed.
>something like this:
>>well that went really well<
> __ Bob the wonder puppy<00:00:00/17-NOV-57>
>
Where is THAT from?? I know one guy out there (Rejik? Can't remember how to
spell the name) has been poting under a really strange format, but... When
we were talking about Time/Date stamp changing, we were referring to a
totally new style which is something like

Hey, did you see this? It's a new posting format that was used in the
last couple of sourcebooks.
>Joe Poster

Or something close to that. i don't own the new books, so I can't double
check (yet)... Check out Fasa's home page though, cuase they use it on there...

Steve


=======================================================
= Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich =
= =
= chaos@*****,com =
= =
= "Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?" =
=======================================================

"Thug, meet wall. Wall, meet Thug. Play nice."
-Spider-Man (from an issue i read 9 years ago)
Message no. 37
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Time/date stamps
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 03:26:43 -0500
At 03:00 AM 11/18/96 -0400, MAGECK wrote:
>Someone mentioned that it was from shadowland 2.0? I have never heard of that.
>I wonder if they meant Virtual realities 2.0, but in that it was the format we
>use on here in stead it used (00:00:00/00-00-00) in stead of the <>.
>
No offense meant toward you, Mageck, or anybody, but I'm amazed at the
number of people who haven't seen anything FASA's put out this year, both
here and over on teh other ShadowLists... Threats and Dunk's Will both used
the new format, as well as a new Table of Contents for Shadowland (That they
always open with), but it goes under Shadowland 2.0. The whole book uses
the new posting format, and the background design and graphics are new...

Personally, i like the old system and look better, but that's just me...

Steve


=======================================================
= Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich =
= =
= chaos@*****,com =
= =
= "Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?" =
=======================================================

"Thug, meet wall. Wall, meet Thug. Play nice."
-Spider-Man (from an issue i read 9 years ago)
Message no. 38
From: MAGECK <YBKB@*****.IUP.EDU>
Subject: Re: Time/date stamps
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 03:52:36 -0400
I look at the new stuff, but since I don't actually play(no group to play
with) I only buy the stuff I like. And this year I really haven't seen
anything since awakinings and Virtual realities 2.0, so therefore nothing but
those two have ben bought.

I have to agree with you on the old posting formats, they look a lot neater
and also easier to read.

I also know how grumpy Nightfox can be. He is the one that got me on the
list, back when he was still on my side of the United States. The stories I
could tell you about Dan. Oh where to begin.
********************************************************************************
This message was brought to you by WOLFSDEN INDUSTRIES
a division of MAGECK ENTERPRISES
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Adam E. Buchanan | MAGECK
"One Dream One Soul One Prize One Goal" | YBKB@***.grove.iup.edu
The Howl of the wolf is a beautiful thing| GRAYWOLF
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 39
From: Dvixen <dvixen@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Time/date stamps
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 02:00:34 -0800
> No offense meant toward you, Mageck, or anybody, but I'm amazed at the
> number of people who haven't seen anything FASA's put out this year,
both
> here and over on teh other ShadowLists... Threats and Dunk's Will both
used
> the new format, as well as a new Table of Contents for Shadowland (That
they
> always open with), but it goes under Shadowland 2.0. The whole book
uses
> the new posting format, and the background design and graphics are
new...

I haven't bothered going into our local to take a look at the old books,
something about the old workplace... <shiver> I'm gathering my strength
for the SR Companion.

> Personally, i like the old system and look better, but that's just me...

I'd be inclined to agree, the snippet you included of the 'new' format
looks much less... let's just say the 'old' format is much easier to deal
with.

Will the ShadowTK list be using the 'old', 'new' or both formats?

--
Dvixen/Snow Leopard/Celt dvixen@********.com
"Snow Melts"
The opinions expressed are those of the myriad voices in my head
Message no. 40
From: Brad Shantz <BRADS@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Time/date stamps
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 10:18:34 -0800
Excellent point. I hadn't looked at the book before I made that
comment. You are most likely correct.

>----------
>From: Benjamin[SMTP:benjamin@*****.COM]
>Sent: Thursday, November 14, 1996 4:41 PM
>To: PLOTD@********.ITRIBE.NET
>Subject: Re: Time/date stamps
>
>>Good point, Olafur. However, I think I'd have to say that the
>>timestamps should match the timestamps in the main Shadowrun book. Why?
>> Well, not everyone has the new supplements. Not everyone even buys any
>>of the new books. So, the standard should be based around what the
>>BASE standard is for the game. That's the main book.
>
>Good argument, Brad, but I don't think there ARE any timestamps in the
>main book, and that it has nothing but rules and the short story at
>the front. No Shadowland at all. If anyone can find one of those posts
>in SRII, I'll cheerfully admit I'm wrong.
>

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Time/Date Stamps, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.