Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: WildSmashr@***.com WildSmashr@***.com
Subject: TK's Year?
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 14:50:07 EDT
Okay, it's 2060 in ShadowTK-land.

I *think* there may a problem that requires discussion though.

I *think* FASA currently has Shadowrun in 2061. I'm not positive though; I'm
hoping that when Corporate Download hits in a few weeks, I'll be able to
figure it out for sure.

If my suspicion is correct (and I may be wrong, it's much harder to determine
dates in recent books, since they lack the old-style/TK-style TD stamps),
then that puts us an entire YEAR behind FASA.

While having an entire year to prepare for something does prevent any Bug
City type disasters (my fellow old-timers know what that a problem that was),
it also gives everyone a chance to forget it all.

Thoughts? Guesses? Suspicions? Bald-faced lies?

BTW, the web page is very nearly back up and running; I'm playing Orkin Man
right now...yay!

Erik J.
Message no. 2
From: Logan Graves logan1@*****.intercom.net
Subject: TK's Year?
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 19:06:20 -0400
In our last saga, WildSmashr@***.com wrote:
>
> Okay, it's 2060 in ShadowTK-land.
>
> I *think* FASA currently has Shadowrun in 2061. I'm not positive though; I'm
> hoping that when Corporate Download hits in a few weeks, I'll be able to
> figure it out for sure.

<0.02¥>

I've had this discussion a couple of times with some of the Folks at FASA.
Their explanation went something like this:
Originally, during SR1 & 2, the game was set "60-ish years in the future."

However, due to printing & distribution constraints, the sourcebook's black
posts tended to be closer to 61 years if you lived in the USA & Canada.
Someone (Donna I. ?) explained that additionally, SR fiction writers have to
plan for the 18 month backlog/waiting period between the final editing & the
actual publication--adjusting their books' dates accordingly.
Soooo most 'dated' sourcebooks & modules depict events in the somewhat-far to
fairly-near future, depending upon one's geography. It was really only "60
years in the future," when taking into account world-wide distribution of the
game.

An example: Dunky "bit the big banana" on August 10, 2057. Super Tuesday
&
DS:PoaD both came out in late 1996 in the USA. Europe (& maybe Australia)
didn't get these books until early-to-mid 1997, ie. 60 years.

More recently (before last GenCon), FASA's been accelerating or widening this
time difference, with longish modules such as Blood in the Boardroom & RA:S
(which has events leading up to the last months of 2059). All this was in
preparation for SR3's debut. Now it's changed to "61-ish years in the future."
SR3 is set in 2060, but it came out in August 1998 in the USA & Canada--ONE
year more than the old SR1 & 2 differential. Keep in mind that SR3 came out in
early 1999 for a good chunk of the world--thus 61 years to everyone else.

My reasoning:
Book/set Year/dif USA Year/dif Europe
SR1 2050 1989 / 61yrs 1990 / 60yrs
SR2 2053 1992 / 61yrs 1993 / 60yrs
SR3 2060 1998 / 62yrs 1999 / 61yrs

I'm not exactly sure how you've all been handling this differential here in
ShadowTK during years past, but IMntbHO it appears that the "one year
adjustment" made this January(?) should've set things straight.

</0.02¥>
--Fenris
______________________________________________________logan1@*****.intercom.net
(>) Fenrir shamans are mean and ruthless
individuals who have a disturbing tendency
to treat others like their next meal.
(>) MitS, pg. 158
Message no. 3
From: Mach mach@****.caltech.edu
Subject: TK's Year?
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 16:26:11 -0700
On Fri, 11 Jun 1999 WildSmashr@***.com wrote:

> Okay, it's 2060 in ShadowTK-land.
>
> I *think* there may a problem that requires discussion though.

Actually, we discussed this to death back in January or so. We decided
that it would be so big of a problem for a lot of us long-range planners
if we were suddenly going to skip a year, that it would be for the best
to just keep things going as is. Heck, for some of us, the
dis-continuity of the leap-years is pretty annoying.

> If my suspicion is correct (and I may be wrong, it's much harder to determine
> dates in recent books, since they lack the old-style/TK-style TD stamps),
> then that puts us an entire YEAR behind FASA.

The majority conscensus at the time we discussed this was: So what? If
FASA slowed down, and STk ended up being a year _ahead_ of SR, _then_
we'd have a problem.

> While having an entire year to prepare for something does prevent any Bug
> City type disasters (my fellow old-timers know what that a problem that was),
> it also gives everyone a chance to forget it all.

This was another factor that lead to people saying we should just keep
going as we are right now. If they decide to pull anything major (like
drop Halley's Comet on Seattle or some-such, we can have plenty of time
to discuss it to death or decide to omit it from our collective
worldview. The only real point where you can have some difficulty is if
you have new toys that are only supposed to be hitting the streets a
year from then, and some people want to use them right away...but then,
there is always that little thing known as prototype testing, neh?
(Warning: not to be abused....) It does deserve mention in the FAQ
though, so that new players can be warned about coming in and discussing
stuff on-channel that technically hasn't happened yet by STk continuity.

--My two yen

Jeff
Message no. 4
From: WildSmashr@***.com WildSmashr@***.com
Subject: TK's Year?
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 19:47:55 EDT
We talked about this in January? I guess I had forgotten.

I got my copy of Corporate Download already (should be in stores very soon,
open it up and you'll see why I got an early copy) and indeed, those few
dates are for 2061.

I wish there was another answer than simply being behind a full year.
Leaping forward "magically" isn't a satisfactory resolution either.

But something in big bold letters should probably be put in the FAQ very
early to make it blatantly obvious to anyone that even just scans the FAQ
what the situation is.

I mean, it mentions quite clearly that Renraku, using their Red Samurai
units, have reclaimed the first five floors of the Arcology using brute force
(a nasty, vicious running battle with lots of blood). BUT this is a fairly
recent event presented in Corporate Download and Paul (you're loosely running
the Arcology thread, right?) probably can't use this info for at least a few
months if he and we are to keep as close as we can to the FASA thread. This
also means some yahoo can't be posting this info either, for some months.

I guess I'm just not happy that we can't keep in closer tune with FASA. My
own personal bias.

BTW, Jeff, you mentioned Halley's Comet. If you haven't looked at their web
site, at the product listing, well, FASA does have plans according to their
site that does utilize the Comet. My guess is that "Year of the Comet" could
have as big an affect on Shadowrun as Bug City or the Election '57 plots.

Argh. Okay, we'll just have to be both patient and hope we can remember key
events to present here...

Erik
the Overly Cautious
Message no. 5
From: Mach mach@****.caltech.edu
Subject: TK's Year?
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 17:10:20 -0700
On Mon, 14 Jun 1999 WildSmashr@***.com wrote:

> But something in big bold letters should probably be put in the FAQ very
> early to make it blatantly obvious to anyone that even just scans the FAQ
> what the situation is.

[That we're running 2060, not 2061 in 1999.]

I concur. But then, such corrections are out of _my_ hands. Out of
curiousity (another admin thang...ne, Mark I.): is there anything being
done to make the cast-list, older logs, and maybe even the Newcommer's
Guide available from Jackpoint.org?

> I mean, it mentions quite clearly that Renraku, using their Red Samurai
> units, have reclaimed the first five floors of the Arcology using brute force
> (a nasty, vicious running battle with lots of blood). BUT this is a fairly
> recent event presented in Corporate Download and Paul (you're loosely running
> the Arcology thread, right?) probably can't use this info for at least a few
> months if he and we are to keep as close as we can to the FASA thread. This
> also means some yahoo can't be posting this info either, for some months.

Just for those of us uninvolved, curious, and without the sourcebooks,
what exactly _is_ going on inside the Renraku Archology?

> I guess I'm just not happy that we can't keep in closer tune with FASA. My
> own personal bias.

Yeah, but.... I think our long-developed continuity is worth more than
finer tune w/ FASA.

> BTW, Jeff, you mentioned Halley's Comet. If you haven't looked at their web
> site, at the product listing, well, FASA does have plans according to their
> site that does utilize the Comet. My guess is that "Year of the Comet"
could
> have as big an affect on Shadowrun as Bug City or the Election '57 plots.

Oh good grief. *SIGH* And I _was_ kidding in the hopes that by saying
it it wouldn't be true. Well, here's to hoping the writers over at FASA
weren't too enamored by _Deep Impact_ or that fun flick / technical
obscenity known as _Armageddon_. If we're lucky, they won't use a comet
as an excuse to introduce something world-view breaking or just-too-
munchkin-for-words.

> Argh. Okay, we'll just have to be both patient and hope we can remember key
> events to present here...
>
> Erik
> the Overly Cautious

--My two yen

Jeff
the Conservatively
Cynical
Message no. 6
From: Mark Imbriaco mark.imbriaco@*****.com
Subject: TK's Year?
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 22:01:51 -0400 (EDT)
On Mon, 14 Jun 1999, Mach wrote:

> I concur. But then, such corrections are out of _my_ hands. Out of
> curiousity (another admin thang...ne, Mark I.): is there anything being
> done to make the cast-list, older logs, and maybe even the Newcommer's
> Guide available from Jackpoint.org?

Kinda sorta, in a vague kind of way. Seriously, I'm interested in making
all of that stuff available and intend to work on it as time permits. The
cast list is basically there now, the old logs are on my todo list, and
I'd be happy to mirror the Newcomer's Guide.

-Mark
Message no. 7
From: WildSmashr@***.com WildSmashr@***.com
Subject: TK's Year?
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 16:44:44 EDT
Oh yeah, I forgot, one last thing about Year of the Comet. Mike M. has said
he had the idea long before anyone in the public knew about Deep Impact or
Armageddon and that he has no intention of mirroring or mimicing anything
from those films. So don't expect Halley's to slam into Seattle or anything.

Additionally, YotC *could* potentially be FASA's gateway into talking about
space and various orbital and lunar assests. Corporate Download mentions a
few more things than had previously been mentioned in FASA books, about space
that is. It probably won't be expansive, as space isn't an environment very
conducive to traditional Shadowrun, but Mike is looking at the possibilities.

Then again, Mike always seems to be looking at various possibilities and
clearly not all of them go beyond brain-storming. So this might not go
anywhere either. But the only person who really knows is Mike, so...

Erik J.
Message no. 8
From: WildSmashr@***.com WildSmashr@***.com
Subject: TK's Year?
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 14:50:07 EDT
Okay, it's 2060 in ShadowTK-land.

I *think* there may a problem that requires discussion though.

I *think* FASA currently has Shadowrun in 2061. I'm not positive though; I'm
hoping that when Corporate Download hits in a few weeks, I'll be able to
figure it out for sure.

If my suspicion is correct (and I may be wrong, it's much harder to determine
dates in recent books, since they lack the old-style/TK-style TD stamps),
then that puts us an entire YEAR behind FASA.

While having an entire year to prepare for something does prevent any Bug
City type disasters (my fellow old-timers know what that a problem that was),
it also gives everyone a chance to forget it all.

Thoughts? Guesses? Suspicions? Bald-faced lies?

BTW, the web page is very nearly back up and running; I'm playing Orkin Man
right now...yay!

Erik J.
Message no. 9
From: Logan Graves logan1@*****.intercom.net
Subject: TK's Year?
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 19:06:20 -0400
In our last saga, WildSmashr@***.com wrote:
>
> Okay, it's 2060 in ShadowTK-land.
>
> I *think* FASA currently has Shadowrun in 2061. I'm not positive though; I'm
> hoping that when Corporate Download hits in a few weeks, I'll be able to
> figure it out for sure.

<0.02¥>

I've had this discussion a couple of times with some of the Folks at FASA.
Their explanation went something like this:
Originally, during SR1 & 2, the game was set "60-ish years in the future."

However, due to printing & distribution constraints, the sourcebook's black
posts tended to be closer to 61 years if you lived in the USA & Canada.
Someone (Donna I. ?) explained that additionally, SR fiction writers have to
plan for the 18 month backlog/waiting period between the final editing & the
actual publication--adjusting their books' dates accordingly.
Soooo most 'dated' sourcebooks & modules depict events in the somewhat-far to
fairly-near future, depending upon one's geography. It was really only "60
years in the future," when taking into account world-wide distribution of the
game.

An example: Dunky "bit the big banana" on August 10, 2057. Super Tuesday
&
DS:PoaD both came out in late 1996 in the USA. Europe (& maybe Australia)
didn't get these books until early-to-mid 1997, ie. 60 years.

More recently (before last GenCon), FASA's been accelerating or widening this
time difference, with longish modules such as Blood in the Boardroom & RA:S
(which has events leading up to the last months of 2059). All this was in
preparation for SR3's debut. Now it's changed to "61-ish years in the future."
SR3 is set in 2060, but it came out in August 1998 in the USA & Canada--ONE
year more than the old SR1 & 2 differential. Keep in mind that SR3 came out in
early 1999 for a good chunk of the world--thus 61 years to everyone else.

My reasoning:
Book/set Year/dif USA Year/dif Europe
SR1 2050 1989 / 61yrs 1990 / 60yrs
SR2 2053 1992 / 61yrs 1993 / 60yrs
SR3 2060 1998 / 62yrs 1999 / 61yrs

I'm not exactly sure how you've all been handling this differential here in
ShadowTK during years past, but IMntbHO it appears that the "one year
adjustment" made this January(?) should've set things straight.

</0.02¥>
--Fenris
______________________________________________________logan1@*****.intercom.net
(>) Fenrir shamans are mean and ruthless
individuals who have a disturbing tendency
to treat others like their next meal.
(>) MitS, pg. 158
Message no. 10
From: Mach mach@****.caltech.edu
Subject: TK's Year?
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 16:26:11 -0700
On Fri, 11 Jun 1999 WildSmashr@***.com wrote:

> Okay, it's 2060 in ShadowTK-land.
>
> I *think* there may a problem that requires discussion though.

Actually, we discussed this to death back in January or so. We decided
that it would be so big of a problem for a lot of us long-range planners
if we were suddenly going to skip a year, that it would be for the best
to just keep things going as is. Heck, for some of us, the
dis-continuity of the leap-years is pretty annoying.

> If my suspicion is correct (and I may be wrong, it's much harder to determine
> dates in recent books, since they lack the old-style/TK-style TD stamps),
> then that puts us an entire YEAR behind FASA.

The majority conscensus at the time we discussed this was: So what? If
FASA slowed down, and STk ended up being a year _ahead_ of SR, _then_
we'd have a problem.

> While having an entire year to prepare for something does prevent any Bug
> City type disasters (my fellow old-timers know what that a problem that was),
> it also gives everyone a chance to forget it all.

This was another factor that lead to people saying we should just keep
going as we are right now. If they decide to pull anything major (like
drop Halley's Comet on Seattle or some-such, we can have plenty of time
to discuss it to death or decide to omit it from our collective
worldview. The only real point where you can have some difficulty is if
you have new toys that are only supposed to be hitting the streets a
year from then, and some people want to use them right away...but then,
there is always that little thing known as prototype testing, neh?
(Warning: not to be abused....) It does deserve mention in the FAQ
though, so that new players can be warned about coming in and discussing
stuff on-channel that technically hasn't happened yet by STk continuity.

--My two yen

Jeff
Message no. 11
From: WildSmashr@***.com WildSmashr@***.com
Subject: TK's Year?
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 19:47:55 EDT
We talked about this in January? I guess I had forgotten.

I got my copy of Corporate Download already (should be in stores very soon,
open it up and you'll see why I got an early copy) and indeed, those few
dates are for 2061.

I wish there was another answer than simply being behind a full year.
Leaping forward "magically" isn't a satisfactory resolution either.

But something in big bold letters should probably be put in the FAQ very
early to make it blatantly obvious to anyone that even just scans the FAQ
what the situation is.

I mean, it mentions quite clearly that Renraku, using their Red Samurai
units, have reclaimed the first five floors of the Arcology using brute force
(a nasty, vicious running battle with lots of blood). BUT this is a fairly
recent event presented in Corporate Download and Paul (you're loosely running
the Arcology thread, right?) probably can't use this info for at least a few
months if he and we are to keep as close as we can to the FASA thread. This
also means some yahoo can't be posting this info either, for some months.

I guess I'm just not happy that we can't keep in closer tune with FASA. My
own personal bias.

BTW, Jeff, you mentioned Halley's Comet. If you haven't looked at their web
site, at the product listing, well, FASA does have plans according to their
site that does utilize the Comet. My guess is that "Year of the Comet" could
have as big an affect on Shadowrun as Bug City or the Election '57 plots.

Argh. Okay, we'll just have to be both patient and hope we can remember key
events to present here...

Erik
the Overly Cautious
Message no. 12
From: Mach mach@****.caltech.edu
Subject: TK's Year?
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 17:10:20 -0700
On Mon, 14 Jun 1999 WildSmashr@***.com wrote:

> But something in big bold letters should probably be put in the FAQ very
> early to make it blatantly obvious to anyone that even just scans the FAQ
> what the situation is.

[That we're running 2060, not 2061 in 1999.]

I concur. But then, such corrections are out of _my_ hands. Out of
curiousity (another admin thang...ne, Mark I.): is there anything being
done to make the cast-list, older logs, and maybe even the Newcommer's
Guide available from Jackpoint.org?

> I mean, it mentions quite clearly that Renraku, using their Red Samurai
> units, have reclaimed the first five floors of the Arcology using brute force
> (a nasty, vicious running battle with lots of blood). BUT this is a fairly
> recent event presented in Corporate Download and Paul (you're loosely running
> the Arcology thread, right?) probably can't use this info for at least a few
> months if he and we are to keep as close as we can to the FASA thread. This
> also means some yahoo can't be posting this info either, for some months.

Just for those of us uninvolved, curious, and without the sourcebooks,
what exactly _is_ going on inside the Renraku Archology?

> I guess I'm just not happy that we can't keep in closer tune with FASA. My
> own personal bias.

Yeah, but.... I think our long-developed continuity is worth more than
finer tune w/ FASA.

> BTW, Jeff, you mentioned Halley's Comet. If you haven't looked at their web
> site, at the product listing, well, FASA does have plans according to their
> site that does utilize the Comet. My guess is that "Year of the Comet"
could
> have as big an affect on Shadowrun as Bug City or the Election '57 plots.

Oh good grief. *SIGH* And I _was_ kidding in the hopes that by saying
it it wouldn't be true. Well, here's to hoping the writers over at FASA
weren't too enamored by _Deep Impact_ or that fun flick / technical
obscenity known as _Armageddon_. If we're lucky, they won't use a comet
as an excuse to introduce something world-view breaking or just-too-
munchkin-for-words.

> Argh. Okay, we'll just have to be both patient and hope we can remember key
> events to present here...
>
> Erik
> the Overly Cautious

--My two yen

Jeff
the Conservatively
Cynical
Message no. 13
From: Mark Imbriaco mark.imbriaco@*****.com
Subject: TK's Year?
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 22:01:51 -0400 (EDT)
On Mon, 14 Jun 1999, Mach wrote:

> I concur. But then, such corrections are out of _my_ hands. Out of
> curiousity (another admin thang...ne, Mark I.): is there anything being
> done to make the cast-list, older logs, and maybe even the Newcommer's
> Guide available from Jackpoint.org?

Kinda sorta, in a vague kind of way. Seriously, I'm interested in making
all of that stuff available and intend to work on it as time permits. The
cast list is basically there now, the old logs are on my todo list, and
I'd be happy to mirror the Newcomer's Guide.

-Mark
Message no. 14
From: WildSmashr@***.com WildSmashr@***.com
Subject: TK's Year?
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 16:44:44 EDT
Oh yeah, I forgot, one last thing about Year of the Comet. Mike M. has said
he had the idea long before anyone in the public knew about Deep Impact or
Armageddon and that he has no intention of mirroring or mimicing anything
from those films. So don't expect Halley's to slam into Seattle or anything.

Additionally, YotC *could* potentially be FASA's gateway into talking about
space and various orbital and lunar assests. Corporate Download mentions a
few more things than had previously been mentioned in FASA books, about space
that is. It probably won't be expansive, as space isn't an environment very
conducive to traditional Shadowrun, but Mike is looking at the possibilities.

Then again, Mike always seems to be looking at various possibilities and
clearly not all of them go beyond brain-storming. So this might not go
anywhere either. But the only person who really knows is Mike, so...

Erik J.

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about TK's Year?, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!