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Message no. 1
From: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@*******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: Turing Police ! (fwd)
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 1994 11:00:51 -0600
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 1994 13:08:26 +0000
From: The Powerhouse <P.C.Steele@*********.AC.UK>
To: Multiple recipients of list SHADOWRN <SHADOWRN@*****.NIC.SURFNET.NL>
Subject: Turing Police !

As we're dealing with AI's on shadowtalk I thought I'd post this. I got the
idea originally from the Jayhawk postings (available on ftp) but thought the
idea was good enough to incorporate into my own campaign.

Many of the suggestions may seem munchkin or overbalancing but don't forget
these guys don't give two hoots about most deckers, besides most of them were
wiz deckers defore being snatched up by the FBI. So by and large they leave
deckers alone. The other thing is that there are very few of them in existence,
especially the ones with the high grade cyberware that makes them into a lethal
fighting force. Poorer countries just use good deckers with a good deck,
countries known to use such teams include, UCAS, UK, Japan, Tirs and Germany.

Anyway let's hear your comments, I've been suitable vague on most details as
this is more intended, I hope, as plot device for shadowtalk. If you wish
to use it yourself then I'd strongly advise against PC's having access, of
course this could make an interesting plot device with an NPC.

One last thing I would like to bring the turing police into the war with MONICA.
With a turing police detachment and an army of PC deckers we may just be able
to beat her for good :)

Oh, and when replying send plot related stuff to plotd.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TURING POLICE

The turing police are a special unit set up by the major goverments of the
world to police the world's matrix. They are constantly on the look out for
rogue deckers and 'other' anomalies. In UCAS the FBI are responsible for
their own net though there is very close co-operation between other crime
fighting authorities and if needs be authorities will work together. The turing
police's biggest job is to prevent something like the crash of 29 from ever
happening again.

>>>>>[ There's alot of tension between countries like UCAS and the T.T. ,
UK and TNO, they guard their corner of the net jealously from Turing
police. ]<<<<<
-I.B.A. (**:**:**/**.**.**)

The standard setup involves a heavily modified deck. Three deckers work in
unison to provide a tank like set up. One steers, one man's sensors the other
fires the weapons, to achieve such an integral link up a special piece of
cyberware has been designed to allow the deckers to link themselves together.
This has some similarities to the hitcher jack found on decks but is far more
flexible. It is possible through this cyberware for all deckers to man the
guns for example, or any combination, this allows the police to shift their
defences rapidly according to what it is they are encountering.

>>>>>[ I think Ramierz and Wolf 359 use something similar, you can bet
though
that they don't have their own speicalised cyberware, he he ]<<<<<
-I.B.A. (**:**:**/**.**.**)

The deck is far from anything found on the street. It is truely cutting edge,
even the corps won't have something like this for the next 5 years. It is a
fully multi-MPCP deck with banks of hardening, top notch persona programs
and a speed which exceeds a Fairlight. All decks are linked to a massive
MSX-CRAY T99000X, which supports lethal doses of black IC. It is possible for
the police to instruct the mainframe to send that IC out into the matrix where
it comes under their control.

>>>>>[ Yeah it's possible, but ma chummer says they hardly ever do it as
black IC crawling over the matrix seriously impeeds network traffic. Last time
they did it they faced lawsuits from 3 virtual stock excahanges who lost mega-
nuyen due to transmission delays. They also have to be careful with this stuff,
some of it sounds as deadly as the Renraku know-bots we keep hearing about.
]<<<<<
-I.B.A. (**:**:**/**.**.**)

One of the most ingenious aspects of the deck is the ability to be able to max
out three of the personas and kick in the spare ones should one be damaged.
In a normal deck it is possible to max out only one persona chip, that value
is increased by 50% and the others decreased by 50%. On the turing police
deck each decker can raise one of his persona chips by 50%. So it is possible
to have 3 out of the 4 persona chips raised by 50% and only 1 decreased by 50%.
Yet another possibility exists though. Each decker can raise the same persona
by 50%, the result is cummulative.

>>>>>[ What this means chummers is that these guys can get BOD's that
benchmark
at about 24. Ok, everything else is gonna be down to about a 3 but frag !
]<<<<<
-I.B.A. (**:**:**/**.**.**)

Now we come to software. These guys, are hot when it comes to programming on
the fly, again they don't seem to suffer the same constraints that us normal
deckers have to go adhere to. They also use cutting edge custom stuff made
by some of the brightest brains in the country who are on permanent contract
to their respective govts. The UCAS and UK sport the biggest, baddest software
but you'll often find that the elven nations can come up with some real mind
bending stuff. Expect most software to benchmark at 10+.

>>>>>[ IBA, let me ask something. How come we hardly ever hear about these
guys, I mean I`m no decker but I keep up to date. ]<<<<<
-The Powerhouse (12:39:31/10.2.55)

>>>>>[ Well the basic fact is that the govt wants to keep them secret,
they're
supposed to be secret, after all these guys could probably break into just
about anyones fraggin computer. They had to kinda acknowledge them after the
drek with the New York, vitual stock exchange, and I think the corps had
guessed for some while. If you listen hard enough you'll have heard the
rumours in deep little corners. ]<<<<<
-I.B.A. (**:**:**/**.**.**)

>>>>>[ Well how come you know so much ? ]<<<<<
-The Powerhouse (12:43:35/10.2.55)

>>>>>[ Ah, well let's just say I had done many things before I met you PH,
many things. ]<<<<<
-I.B.A. (**:**:**/**.**.**)


Phill.
--
Phillip Steele - Email address P.C.Steele@***.ac.uk | Fighting against
Department Of Electrical & Electronic Engineering | Political Correctness !
University Of Newcastle Upon Tyne, England |
Land of the mad Geordies | The Powerhouse
Message no. 2
From: Ed Matuskey <MATUSKEY@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Turing Police ! (fwd)
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 1994 23:28:18 -0800
Hmmm:
They can do the things deckers can, but better?
I hate to make a gross generalization, but if you objected to the Ways and
Paths, you'll probably dislike the Turing police for the same reasons....
A good idea though, one I'm sure is out there, watching us all go about our
daily activities.....
Hmmm, I wonder what wouldhappen if they tried to slam down on the shadowy
denizens of the matrix....CyberFacists!
-Ed
Message no. 3
From: The Powerhouse <P.C.Steele@*********.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Turing Police ! (fwd)
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 1994 14:48:32 +0000
In reply to Ed Matuskey .....

> Hmmm, I wonder what wouldhappen if they tried to slam down on the shadowy
> denizens of the matrix....CyberFacists!

Little point in doing that, as the shadowy denziens of the net keep the corps
on their toes and are an excellent source of information to the Turing Police.

Phill.
--
Phillip Steele - Email address P.C.Steele@***.ac.uk | Fighting against
Department Of Electrical & Electronic Engineering | Political Correctness !
University Of Newcastle Upon Tyne, England |
Land of the mad Geordies | The Powerhouse
Message no. 4
From: The Powerhouse <P.C.Steele@*********.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Turing Police !
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 1994 14:47:00 +0000
In reply to Nightfox .....

> I like the idea, it does have merit and there are some things right now
> on Shadowtk that are like it. First of all there are all the 'Nice and
> Honourable' members of Shadowland (shadowtk) and there is also the Anti-
> runner people under Inspector Drake of Interpol.

Nice and honourable ? Well ok, maybe one or two of them, but you don't live
long in the shadows being honourable :)

> Who would they be under?
> 1. No one?
> 2. Interpol?
> 3. UN?
> 4. Some other strange agency?

Well I think that they would probably come under the internal security service
for each country, that's why I suggested the FBI but I suppose the NSA might
be a better choice.

> Also, I doubt that the corps would have no dealings in this, the world Gov.
> just don't have the money to sponser the research into things like this, and
> the Corps WOULD notice if the started to go this route.

Ah but would the govts want the corps to get involved and remember what I'm
talking about is something small but deadly. They may know about it but what
are they going to do about it ? Surely even the corps must think twice before
ticking off someone like the NSA.

Ok, now we get to 'How powerful should they be ?' Well, yes, they can kick
ass in the matrix, I'm sorry but these guys/gals are designed soley for that
purpose with cutting edge cyberware and cuttintg edge decks. That's not to say
that they are invincible of course.

So, I'd like to know what you all think. I think it can be safely established
that there will be some kind of matrix police, but the question is how powerful
do you think they should be ? I'll gauge the opinions to this last question
before I introduce any into the MONICA scenario.

Phill.
--
Phillip Steele - Email address P.C.Steele@***.ac.uk | Fighting against
Department Of Electrical & Electronic Engineering | Political Correctness !
University Of Newcastle Upon Tyne, England |
Land of the mad Geordies | The Powerhouse
Message no. 5
From: The Powerhouse <P.C.Steele@*********.AC.UK>
Subject: Turing police...
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 1994 13:57:36 +0000
Ok, I need everyone's reaction to my bringing in the turing police on the
MONICA thing at some stage. It won't be till they are really needed and even
then they'll only act against any threat to the matrix, nothing else.

If the general consensus is that you'd rather not see them, then that's ok.
But if not I need time to think up some ideas for a small crew.

Phill.
--
Phillip Steele - Email address P.C.Steele@***.ac.uk | Fighting against
Department Of Electrical & Electronic Engineering | Political Correctness !
University Of Newcastle Upon Tyne, England |
Land of the mad Geordies | The Powerhouse
Message no. 6
From: Colm Fahy <C384-004@*******.UCD.IE>
Subject: Re: Turing police...
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 1994 14:58:11 GMT
Not trying to rain on your parade but the whole Idea seems a little munchkinous
to me...and not only that, but it seems a redundant Idea...the matrix doesn't
have a governing body...that's why it's so diverse...rather like the net of tod
ay there is no one standard..rather everything just sort of grew together in a
mishmash of different styles...
on a third point..bear in mind please everyone, the guidelines in the rules for
__Really__serious corp deckers...Barely up to the standard of a good runner!!
And the better runners are supposed to be way beyond that...the theory behind
deckers in the original rules is that they are always using SOTA, illegal tech.
the corps just can't keep up...having a whole squadron of these goons removes
for me the attractiveness of decking..which is the creativity it involves...
Basically..any good decker makes his own gear..that's why he's a good decker,
because he has the originality to defeat whatever the latest countermeasure is
..So military/corp deckers just aren't as good...in general

Flame away

Colm
Message no. 7
From: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@*******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Turing police...
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 1994 12:50:46 -0600
On Wed, 16 Feb 1994, The Powerhouse wrote:

> Ok, I need everyone's reaction to my bringing in the turing police on the
> MONICA thing at some stage. It won't be till they are really needed and even
> then they'll only act against any threat to the matrix, nothing else.
>
> If the general consensus is that you'd rather not see them, then that's ok.
> But if not I need time to think up some ideas for a small crew.

I think that tue turing police idea is premature. Instead, they could be
CREATED out of the current MONICA affair (sort of a response). Remember,
previous MONICA events received little attention outside the quasi-legal
persons of hte shadow-world, so up to now, there has been no need for a
security force to monitor the entire matrix.

Now they'll have a reason.

____ Robert A. Hayden <=> hayden@*******.mankato.msus.edu
\ /__ -=-=-=-=- <=> -=-=-=-=-
\/ / Finger for Geek Code Info <=> In the United States, they
\/ Finger for PGP 2.3a Public Key <=> first came for us in Colorado...
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
(GEEK CODE 1.0.1) GAT d- -p+(---) c++(++++) l++ u++ e+/* m++(*)@ s-/++
n-(---) h+(*) f+ g+ w++ t++ r++ y+(*)
Message no. 8
From: The Powerhouse <P.C.Steele@*********.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Turing police...
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 1994 18:56:08 +0000
I'm not too keen on the idea of the turing police not even existing yet.
Why would such a group only be formed after the MONICA affair, surely they
were formed for the crash of 29, the first team being Echo Mirage. While
the original members may have gone various ways I'm sure the govt would have
kept an equivalent team going in case the same thing happened again.

Phill.
--
Phillip Steele - Email address P.C.Steele@***.ac.uk | Fighting against
Department Of Electrical & Electronic Engineering | Political Correctness !
University Of Newcastle Upon Tyne, England |
Land of the mad Geordies | The Powerhouse
Message no. 9
From: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@*******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Turing police...
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 1994 14:29:30 -0600
On Wed, 16 Feb 1994, The Powerhouse wrote:

> I'm not too keen on the idea of the turing police not even existing yet.
> Why would such a group only be formed after the MONICA affair, surely they
> were formed for the crash of 29, the first team being Echo Mirage. While
> the original members may have gone various ways I'm sure the govt would have
> kept an equivalent team going in case the same thing happened again.

But also remember that the network is simply a series of private and
public nodes, with little control except by private security. The
government certainly has some security forces, but they pale in
comparison to the ability and resources of corporate and freelance
(runners) deckers.

____ Robert A. Hayden <=> hayden@*******.mankato.msus.edu
\ /__ -=-=-=-=- <=> -=-=-=-=-
\/ / Finger for Geek Code Info <=> In the United States, they
\/ Finger for PGP 2.3a Public Key <=> first came for us in Colorado...
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
(GEEK CODE 1.0.1) GAT d- -p+(---) c++(++++) l++ u++ e+/* m++(*)@ s-/++
n-(---) h+(*) f+ g+ w++ t++ r++ y+(*)
Message no. 10
From: "Seth A. Buntain" <enthar@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Turing police...
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 1994 16:14:49 -0600
On the thread of the Turing police, I sorta like the idea that they would be
created out of the upcomming conflict with MONICA. Mostly because it makes
for better drama.

As for why they dont exist already? Mostly cause the corporations dont want
the goverments to have that kind of power, or worse yet, another corporation.
Some rival corp with top o' the line decks and kick butt deckers? I mean,
look at all the trouble shadowrunners cause, and most of them are using
bastardized hybrids that they threw together with limited resources.

Course, with things like MONICA running around, the corps might wise up and
give the Corprate court limited powers to oversee matrix encompassing threats
and take steps to eliminate them. Sorta like the UN and like the UN would
often be handicapped by politics and infighting.

To give a constructive idea to the plot, I know there are several corporations
represented on shadowtk besides Phoenix Star Inc. Perhaps they could feel the
brunt of the damage from MONICA, and use that as a catalyst for forming the
Turing squads. I would be willing to sacrifice some of Phoenix Star's assets
for a good plot :)

Let me know what you think.

--
Seth Buntain | "You will find that a great many of the truths
Enthar the Eternal | that we cling to depend greatly on our own point
email: enthar@***.edu | of view" --Obi Wan Kenobi
(V 1.01) GE d -p+ c++ l u e+(*) m(++) s/- !n h- f+ g- w+ t+(++) r+(++) !y
"It's a damn poor man who can't spell a wyrd in more than one way!"
-Thomas Jefferson
My opinions, comments and even facts are all mine.
Message no. 11
From: The Powerhouse <P.C.Steele@*********.AC.UK>
Subject: Turing police...
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 1994 12:34:17 +0000
Ok,

Here's what I'm going to do at the moment for the Turing Police. The TP exist
but only in the most generalised sense, basically they are deckers who work for
the various govt intelligence organisations, and they will have good gear.
Probably not quite Fairlight quality, though some may have. As it stands, they
don't have any specific job as such to monitor the matrix, rather they are used
for the all the dodgy things that intelligence agencies get up to.

After the MONICA incident there will be an investigation by the corp court and
the UCAS govt. There will be meetings, consultations etc and eventually the
need for proper matrix policing will be seen. How this develops will depend
much on inter corp/govt rivalries, but a dedicated team should emerge and should
be well enough equipped to tackle such an incident again as MONICA.

I think that answers most of the worries people had about the TP, but by all
means let me know if you still don't agree.

Phill.
--
Phillip Steele - Email address P.C.Steele@***.ac.uk | Fighting against
Department Of Electrical & Electronic Engineering | Political Correctness !
University Of Newcastle Upon Tyne, England |
Land of the mad Geordies | The Powerhouse
Message no. 12
From: Loki <jek5313@******.TAMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Turing police...
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 1994 11:24:16 -0600
PHILmeister:
> After the MONICA incident there will be an investigation by the corp court and
> the UCAS govt. There will be meetings, consultations etc and eventually the
> need for proper matrix policing will be seen. How this develops will depend
> much on inter corp/govt rivalries, but a dedicated team should emerge and should
> be well enough equipped to tackle such an incident again as MONICA.

No offense intended, Phil, but I would be much more likely to view the Turing
Police, should they ever exist, as a loose confederation of public hackers of
decent repute, called into action in crises, but otherwise without a presence
on the net.

For an attempt at realistic comparison, imagine if someone started policing
the internet, and started censoring email, looking in directories, etc.
It can be done now, save for public opinion being what it is.

If you start seeding the net with an actual organized, centrally-directed and
-organized anti-"disturbance in the net" group, you are going to drive a
great many people crazy, and a few away. No longer is it the "New Frontier
of Cyberspace" but it becomes the sanctioned playing grounds of a world
government organization, and everyone else decends to the status of merely
being "tolerated until an offense can be found."

In short, the whole idea is entirely to "Big Brotherish" to me.

--

Dark Thought Publications & Doom Technologies, Inc.
>>> Working on solutions best left in the dark.
Message no. 13
From: Nightfox <DJWA@******.UCC.NAU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Turing police...
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 1994 22:25:36 -0700
> Stuff about them working for gov Int.
>
>After the MONICA incident there will be an investigation by the corp court and
>the UCAS govt. There will be meetings, consultations etc and eventually the
>need for proper matrix policing will be seen. How this develops will depend
>much on inter corp/govt rivalries, but a dedicated team should emerge and should
>be well enough equipped to tackle such an incident again as MONICA.

I don't think it will happen for a while or be very good or concise. lets face
it, its going to be

1. bureucratic - just to plan the thing and make everyone involved happy
and to have them agree will take FOREVER

2. Tons of red tap "Ok hmm I'm a Fench Int decker working for TP so I'm allowed
to go into this UCSA military int system LEGALLY."

3. People who don't sign up - say Germany say - NO WAY now do the TP have the
power to invade their systems -> not if you don't want war

4. Corps are multi national and business men - the problem is over, it
probably won't happen again, and if it does it will be taken care of.
No way in heck is Fuchi going to allow a TP decker form MCT into their system,
not to mention a gov decker.



best solution if things get bad
Corp court says "ok we have a problem Fuchi, Renraku and MCT since you
are world leaders in computer technology - you will ALL work together to take
care of it. YOu will ofcourse be re-imbersed."
Ya know - sort of like they do when a smaller corp gets out of line.



Also - remember from the novel with the lost tech - the Gov does have a few
SWEET systems with great security.


BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!
Daniel Waisley + SCA - March of Ered Sul - Flagstaff AZ
DJWA@******.UCC.NAU.EDU + Nau fencing club.
"Nightfox" + Brotherhood of the Cryptic Demesne -household
BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!
GE - d+(-) -p+@ c++(++++) !L u(--) e+(*) m+ s+/ !n+(-) h* f+ g+ w+++ t+ r+ y+
"infinity = zero" - Daniel Waisley "Nightfox"
BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!

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