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From:	"Michael R. Goldberg" <mrgoldbe@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject:	Vampires
Date:	Tue, 1 Dec 1998 23:22:15 -0600

Message no. 1 Hiya. Been silent for a while, but I just got back from a vacation
which means that if time is permitting, I should get my stories moving
again.

I could not resist commenting on the vampire questions going on, so I
thought I would throw my 2 nuYen in the mix.

1) Be careful of how many vampires you introduce to the list. After
one of the times Brian Angliss resurfaced from a "summer vacation"
(ie. no net access while away from school) we had a phase on the list
where everyone thought it would be cool to run vampires. It quickly
got out of hand and the list at that time cracked down on how many
vampiric characters we had on the list. IMHO, they should be a
miniority character and it shouldn't feel like everyone has vampire
characters. (After all, if we wanted that, why not have a
world-of-darkness-tk list?)

2) Elder vampires? I for one have not been too enamored with the
immortal elf syndrome that FASA went through and I don't want to see
the same theories apply to vampires. Based on what FASA did linking
Earthdawn and Shadowrun together, it would be a feasible argument to
say that vampires could survive the lull like certain very powerful
elves did. However, that doesn't make it necessarily a good plot
device.

In my SR world (way back when I was running a game), an elder vampire
would have been one that was created in 2012 or so. (Granted that is
older than most of my characters on this node, but still....)

Other than that, a corporate type of a small corporation (doesn't need
to be a CEO in my mind) being interested in preventing his/her own
death by way of becoming infected with the virus sounds interesting.

Mike

From:	Justin Fang <justinf@****.CALTECH.EDU>
Subject:	Re: Vampires
Date:	Wed, 2 Dec 1998 09:53:02 -0800

Message no. 2 Michael R. Goldberg wrote:
>vampiric characters we had on the list. IMHO, they should be a
>miniority character and it shouldn't feel like everyone has vampire
>characters. (After all, if we wanted that, why not have a
>world-of-darkness-tk list?)

Yeah, we could all have vampires, and werew--I mean, shapeshifters, and
Mages-with-a-capital-M, and wra--sorry, free spirits, and... I'll shut up
now.

>2) Elder vampires? I for one have not been too enamored with the
>immortal elf syndrome that FASA went through and I don't want to see
>the same theories apply to vampires.

I would agree that any such characters should stay well in the background,
if they are even mentioned at all. I don't think anyone has proposed
actually using a leftover vampire "openly", as it were, so this shouldn't be
a problem.

--
Justin Fang (justinf@****.caltech.edu)
This space intentionally left blank.

From:	Grifter13 <sids@*********.CA>
Subject:	Re: Vampires
Date:	Wed, 2 Dec 1998 13:51:32 -0800

Message no. 3 -----Original Message-----
From: Justin Fang <justinf@****.CALTECH.EDU>
To: PLOTD@********.ITRIBE.NET <PLOTD@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Date: Wednesday, December 02, 1998 9:53 AM
Subject: Re: Vampires

>Michael R. Goldberg wrote:
>>vampiric characters we had on the list. IMHO, they should be a
>>miniority character and it shouldn't feel like everyone has vampire
>>characters. (After all, if we wanted that, why not have a
>>world-of-darkness-tk list?)
>
>Yeah, we could all have vampires, and werew--I mean, shapeshifters, and
>Mages-with-a-capital-M, and wra--sorry, free spirits, and... I'll shut up
>now.

Well in total I think that I will have maybe four or five vampires
involved, but most will be really rather small parts (read as 'get killed
off'). Working in the background, unimportant but still a cog in the
machine. Only two vampires are important to the story.

>>2) Elder vampires? I for one have not been too enamored with the
>>immortal elf syndrome that FASA went through and I don't want to see
>>the same theories apply to vampires.
>
>I would agree that any such characters should stay well in the background,
>if they are even mentioned at all. I don't think anyone has proposed
>actually using a leftover vampire "openly", as it were, so this shouldn't
>be a problem.

Okay I'v played Shadowrun now for about four or five months now, not
counting when I used to play first ed back in colledge about four maybe five
years ago (those are blurry years). So I really don't know much about the
history of the Shadowrun/Earthdawn universe. But for a vampire to survive
the lull would
be relativly simple, just make our self go dormant and hope that when ever
some poor slob disturbes you the lull is over. Besides I want the head
honcho to be a leftover vampire who has a fondness for the old days when he
was king and his word was law.

>In my SR world (way back when I was running a game), an elder vampire
>would have been one that was created in 2012 or so. (Granted that is
>older than most of my characters on this node, but still....)

Most of the vampires will be 'young'. Changed for no reason other than to
be tools for THE MASTER ahahahahahahahahahah. Sorry :^( the doctor said
the pills would take care of that.

>Other than that, a corporate type of a small corporation (doesn't need
>to be a CEO in my mind) being interested in preventing his/her own
>death by way of becoming infected with the virus sounds interesting.

Well I just don't know what the title would be for someone who is the
head/owner of a corperation. The Big Cheese just don't sound proper...maybe
The Man would be better.

Chris

From:	"Mark L. Neidengard" <mneideng@****.CALTECH.EDU>
Subject:	Re: Vampires
Date:	Wed, 2 Dec 1998 14:01:52 -0800

Message no. 4 According to Justin Fang:
>Michael R. Goldberg wrote:
>>vampiric characters we had on the list. IMHO, they should be a
>>miniority character and it shouldn't feel like everyone has vampire
>>characters. (After all, if we wanted that, why not have a
>>world-of-darkness-tk list?)

Indeed. Pure Ricean/WW-style vampire angst is all very well and good, but it
lacks flavor unless _very_ carefully seasoned. ^_^

>Yeah, we could all have vampires, and werew--I mean, shapeshifters, and
>Mages-with-a-capital-M, and wra--sorry, free spirits, and... I'll shut up
>now.

/me grins dangerously

>>2) Elder vampires? I for one have not been too enamored with the
>>immortal elf syndrome that FASA went through and I don't want to see
>>the same theories apply to vampires.
>I would agree that any such characters should stay well in the background,
>if they are even mentioned at all. I don't think anyone has proposed
>actually using a leftover vampire "openly", as it were, so this shouldn't be
>a problem.

No way in hell any of my "older" NPCs are going to make anything like an
"open" appearance. To do so would mean the upset of all that the organization
has been working for. Now, the Runners of the world are by now familiar with
the fact that there are HMHVV-infected d00ds running around, but I'm of the
opinion that most of the "random monster" HMHVV types that one would see in
a powergaming context have no connection with the actual Kindred setup. Maybe
one or two might be "admitted", but most of the "vampires" people here
about
are probably totally cut off from the main body - this is entirely deliberate,
since if nothing else it draws the heat away from the "real" vampiric
organization.

Of course, for the upcoming plot, I'm willing to play ball if the vampires
involved are supposed to actually be connected to The Kindred, but if not,
that's fine too. ^_^
--
/!\/!ark /!\!eidengard, CS Grad, VLSI. http://psy-s.cjas.org/~mneideng/
"Fairy of sleep, controller of illusions" Maigo no Daigakuinsei, Cornell U.
"Control the person for my own purpose." "Don't mess with the Dark
Elves!"
-Pirotess, _Record_of_Lodoss_War_ Shadowrunner and Anime Addict

From:	"Mark L. Neidengard" <mneideng@****.CALTECH.EDU>
Subject:	Re: Vampires
Date:	Wed, 2 Dec 1998 14:08:07 -0800

Message no. 5 According to Grifter13:
>>>2) Elder vampires? I for one have not been too enamored with the
>>>immortal elf syndrome that FASA went through and I don't want to see
>>>the same theories apply to vampires.
>>
>>I would agree that any such characters should stay well in the background,
>>if they are even mentioned at all. I don't think anyone has proposed
>>actually using a leftover vampire "openly", as it were, so this
shouldn't
>>be a problem.
>
>Okay I'v played Shadowrun now for about four or five months now, not
>counting when I used to play first ed back in colledge about four maybe five
>years ago (those are blurry years). So I really don't know much about the
>history of the Shadowrun/Earthdawn universe. But for a vampire to survive
>the lull would be relativly simple, just make our self go dormant and hope
>that when ever some poor slob disturbes you the lull is over. Besides I want
>the head honcho to be a leftover vampire who has a fondness for the old days
>when he was king and his word was law.

I am opposed to using any Fourth-World remanant characters openly. In addition
to being 10's of thousands of years old, the structure of Earthdawn implies
that anyone who could have survived the transition should be _really_ buff.
As in Harelquin buff. Or more. And surviving the Low Mana period is not an
entirely trivial prospect. A being whose very longevity is provided by magic
must work very carefully when magic is no longer available. Certainly, it
seems reasonable to assume that vampires couldn't have been very active during
the Fifth World...
--
/!\/!ark /!\!eidengard, CS Grad, VLSI. http://psy-s.cjas.org/~mneideng/
"Fairy of sleep, controller of illusions" Maigo no Daigakuinsei, Cornell U.
"Control the person for my own purpose." "Don't mess with the Dark
Elves!"
-Pirotess, _Record_of_Lodoss_War_ Shadowrunner and Anime Addict

From:	"Paul J. Adam" <plotd@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject:	Re: Vampires
Date:	Wed, 2 Dec 1998 23:49:10 +0000

Message no. 6 In message <199812020522.XAA27767@*******.ix.netcom.com>, Michael R.
Goldberg <mrgoldbe@**.NETCOM.COM> writes
>2) Elder vampires? I for one have not been too enamored with the
>immortal elf syndrome that FASA went through and I don't want to see
>the same theories apply to vampires. Based on what FASA did linking
>Earthdawn and Shadowrun together, it would be a feasible argument to
>say that vampires could survive the lull like certain very powerful
>elves did. However, that doesn't make it necessarily a good plot
>device.

Lilith's father is an 'elder shapeshifter' in our home game... but not
_that_ elder :) He was born in 1876, and fought (and almost died) at
Wounded Knee. Doesn't impact on the list, though. (We figure that
shapeshifters constantly heal themselves, therefore they age a lot
slower too...)

>Other than that, a corporate type of a small corporation (doesn't need
>to be a CEO in my mind) being interested in preventing his/her own
>death by way of becoming infected with the virus sounds interesting.

Lilith's profoundly glad she's a citizen and that the government are
mostly past the phase of cutting up shapeshifters to see what makes them
work... there's certain to be a lot of interest in a cheaper/quicker
version of leonisation, even if there are a few unexpected side-
effects...

--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk

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