| From: | Dark Avenger <petesims@********.DEMON.CO.UK> |
|---|---|
| Subject: | The FAQ and a few questions |
| Date: | Wed, 16 Oct 1996 23:58:33 +0100 |
Sorry if I tread on a few toes, I don't intend to but I'm bound to upset
someone.
I have no idea if J.D. Falk is still here on the list, or if he is still
responsible for the FAQ, if he is then I would like to take this moment
to apologise to him, because the following series of questions is not an
attack on him or his writing of the FAQ, merely that current
interpretation of the Shadowtk and PlotD lists seems to conflict
somewhat with the statements made in the FAQ. For whomever is now
responsible for the FAQ, some of this letter may be of interest to you,
as I think a couple of changes and clarifications might be needed,
depending on reaction to this post.
In an effort to find out a little more about what is actually supposed
to be going on here, I have used the FAQ to point out and clarify my
questions. I apologise if this is taken in the wrong way but I have
read the FAQ several times and have a number of questions for everyone
here.
If it is agreed in general that some parts of the FAQ are wrong or
misleading, it would be nice to see the FAQ rewritten to reflect the
true and current nature of these lists. If however, my interpretation
is incorrect. I apologise.
I would just like to remind the "gang" here that are arbitrarily
attacking anyone who visits these lists, that they are
a:) to please not act in a manner calculated to discourage posting.
b:) that there is an interpretation of the FAQ that they haven't
heretofore noticed or selectively ignored.
c:) that the attitude displayed by a few is not only unacceptable
provocation, but calculated to cause a flame reaction.
d:) that the lists were not created for the *personal* enjoyment, of a
few but are there for other people to use as well
e:) Nowhere in the FAQ does it state that "permission" must be gained to
to post in Shadowtk via PlotD. Nowhere in the FAQ does it state that
anyone posting in Shadowtk, must discuss the nature of their posts first
in PlotD
The questions start from here.
All the following quotes are taken directly from the current FAQ. I
wasn't sure how up to date mine was so I recently got hold of a *new*
copy. This was used in the following:-
<quote>
A. What is ShadowTK?
Shadowtalk is an interactive fiction mailing list based on the
paper & pencil role-playing game Shadowrun, published by FASA.
Members of the list post as characters in genre, and by responding
to each other's posts "in character", stories are developed.
These stories may then be used by players and GMs alike as a basis
for contacts, NPCs, and adventure plots in their own campaigns.
<unqoute>
Where in this part of the FAQ does it state that Shadowtk is *just* for
a:) Ongoing plot/game lines/threads
b:) That it's not for the purposes of *in character* discussion of
Shadowrun
Now some people have posted this section to me, with the "interactive
fiction" section underlined. I'm sorry, I don't understand the
reference. What is so magical about those two words that overrules the
other statements in this paragraph.
<quote>
Posting to the ShadowTk list without following the GUIDELINES FOR
POSTING will result
in your immediate removal from the list, accompanied by a message
requesting that you
refamiliarize yourself with the ShadowTk FAQ. Once you have
refamiliarized yourself
with the FAQ, you are free to rejoin the list.
<unquote>
OK this warning is quite plain, and shows no tolerance for newcomers.
Mistakes *will* be made by people, this is an unavoidable part of
everyday life. I am one of the offenders of this , so if you don't like
it, unsub me, I can live with that. Of course, *all* of the current
people posted perfectly in their first attempts, didn't they ????
Also how do you determine that a person has *familiarised themselves*
What is this 20 questions? An examination. ???
One suggestion that the regulars may want to consider, is the
possibility of a "Newcomers Guide to Posting" Handbook. During the time
of the newcomers posting on Shadowtk, there have been a number of
contradictory suggestions regarding posting formats, which seems to
indicate that even the old timers don't agree or know all the answers.
We are exploring new territory, and are having to do so blindly. A
handbook, would be more than helpful, especially where the FAQ, is
trying to cover many points and cannot specialise in the nature of *all*
the possible types of post.
(See separate post on Handbook suggestion).
<quote>
1. Why Format Correctly?
Proper formatting of messages to ShadowTk is important for
several reasons. First of all it helps sustain the illusion
of a Shadowrun BBS. Secondly, it allow for ease of reading
for your fellow list members. Lastly, it makes it easier for
the listowner and all other people who are keeping logs to
format them in a consistant manner.
<unquote>
OK, this speaks for itself, proper formatting is essential. Alright, we
have tried to do it right, but as I said, we're new, and occasionally
mistakes will be made, especially with the volume of mails that are
going through. A great deal of shouting and cursing was done in PlotD,
which many of us witnessed. But..... that knee jerk reaction wasn't
exactly encouraging any of us to answer. Aside from Mike Broadwater and
one or two others, who contacted myself and others over E-Mail and
showed considerable politeness in offering suggestions and ideas for
some of our more "exotic" mistakes, nobody was particularly interested
in being constructive - at least, not initially.
Now the above mentions that Shadowtk is to provide an *illusion of a
Shadowrun BBS*, it says nothing here about games, or ongoing plotlines.
My thoughts on the illusions of a SR BBS are an area where people *Talk*
to each other. This seems to be backed up by the types of posts in the
FASA sourcebooks. That is what we wanted to do. But when it is
attempted, the post is invariably ignored. If it's not ignored, the
guilty person posting a new thread, is politely *and* rudely told to
"go away, this is an area for an ongoing game, and you're not
invited."
A bit drastic I feel.
Now as far as I can see it's for
****Members of the list post as characters in genre, and by responding
to each other's posts "in character", stories are developed. These
stories may then be used by players and GMs alike as a basis for
contacts, NPCs, and adventure plots in their own campaigns. ****
OK, this implies that we are forming a story, but stories are a
difficult thing to do, and do not allow for versatility of posting,
again I would like to use FASA source material here, where the posters
the Shadowland BBS, are commenting on current affairs, material
available to them, and discussing this material, they are communicating,
not telling stories. OK, it says in the FAQ, *stories,* but that is for
the GM and players alike to create, the nature of the In Character
discussion on certain subjects would provide enough examples of
information, references to experience and data acquired to create that
story, without the illusion of a *game* in progress.
<quote>
The first type of encryption is the "Private" message.
Following the keyword "PRIVATE" the names of the characters
the message was sent to are listed. Only these characters are
aware of the messages existence, and even they do not know that
the same message was sent to characters other than themselves.
It is very poor etiquette to have any other characters respond
to such a message, unless it is a special case, and the sender
of the message has agreed to let the message be eavesdropped
upon.
<unquote>
I did have a number of questions about the comments that have been made
about the traffic through the list that we have been creating. These
have been deleted, as we have sorted the problem amongst ourselves
internally. However, I would still like to bring this part of the FAQ
to your attention. It isn't clear here that *only Deckers* may post.
Before I or any of the other newcomers make the mistake of mentioning
tortoise computers, Shadowland is a difficult place to find, and
requires a certain amount of skill on the part of a Decker to get there,
this is one of the things we are confused about. If this is a
Shadowland, then it shouldn't be used for ongoing plots at all, or for
that matter for games, but is (IMHO) a "cybercafe", where Deckers meet
to talk and swap information news etc... Yet, to be perfectly honest
there is very little of this type of traffic anywhere on Shadowtk.
<quote>
The third type of encryption, which isn't really an
encrypt in the same sense as PRIVATE and NOT-TO is the
INTERNAL message. INTERNAL messages can be used to
provide insight on what is going on behind the scenes
in a plot for the ShadowTk list-members. INTERNAL messages
are for behind the scenes plot developement for information
that would not normally be posted to the ShadowLand board, but
would be a part of normal Matrix traffic
<unquote>
As regards the INTERNAL style of encryption, some people have suggested
that *this* should be used, as if it were a telephone call between us,
others have said that NO the PRIVATE tag is the correct one, and some
have admitted to not knowing. Again there seems to be some confusion
regarding the actual interpretation of some of the different forms of
communication and how best to portray it. This is *really* something
that needs to be sorted out.
As you can see from the above. Internal is used for *insight* into a
plot, so if a character is posting a question about something, he can
include an "internal" line and explain what is being seen etc. Not for
general chit chat.
As was suggested to use this for telephone conversations between the
players, I would suggest not. It can be used to elucidate a point that
is undergoing discussion, as if captured using evesdropping equipment,
but to expect a Shadowrunner to use a telephone for delicate
communication is tantamount to walking into a Lone Star squad room,
claiming that you're a Shadowrunner, and that ACAB, and dropping your
trousers to punctuate the point. Not conducive to long term survival.
Right I won't bring up the time/date stamp bit, we all know I and the
others have made mistakes with this, but that happens. Live with it,
we're working at getting it right.
I notice that others in the list use the "non stamp" idea ie:
<**:**:**/**-**-**> is this usual or is it that seeing as none of you
are newcomers it's OK coz your not newbies. I have been told that it is
highly frowned upon, because - as the FAQ states -
There are some industrious "Deckers" that alter the time-
date stamp into saying something else.
While this can be fun, it is generally accepted that only
VERY expert Deckers can do this, not
listmembers who are too lazy to check the date and time
for a message. It is /not/ a trivial task
Right, now, in some cases this policy is ignored, and a couple of
deckers do post without the T/D stamp, how does one go about achieving
this. Does one ask Mark directly after posting a bio of the Decker
character, or in PlotD, or what. It must be possible, because I've
noticed it quite a bit in other posts. I'm not advocating that we, as
newcomers are *going* to do it. Again, in private communication with
each other, we have arrived at two possible solutions to the T/D problem
that has arisen.
<quote>
The best guideline for posting format can be found in the FASA
rulebooks, but in summary, a post should be made as follows:
<unquote>
OK, this speaks for itself, but nowhere in the FASA sourcebooks do they
have a bunch of people playing a game, they're commenting on current
affairs, swapping information and generally misbehaving, there are also
quite a lot of "personal" posts to each other. None of this follows a
rigid plot line.
<quote>
***** (Key Word): Name List (optional)
>>>>>[Text to be discussed]<<<<<
-- ID < Time / Date >
<unquote>
We have been trying to follow this method, but occasionally a mistake is
made. Some of us get somewhere in the region of 350-400 posts a day, so
once in a while after answering a considerable amount of mail it is
possible to get into a situation where one is operating under autopilot.
We do *try* to keep the T/D stamp in line, but there are people from
Australia, America, the UK, Iceland and Europe. posting. Although we
have agreed on a format and time, and will be implementing this shortly,
there is still the point where there are delays in mail delivery, which
means a comment may be posted to something that has happened, with a
date before that event occurs, until mail transfer on the Internet
becomes instantaneous, and we can *all* afford to be on line all day.
This kind of problem will occur.
<quote>
As a general rule, it is unnescessary to include a signature file
for SHADOWTK postings, as your entries will have your "ID" to
identify you. Most mailers are able to resolve return
addresses. Thus, don't do it.
<unquote>
Yes some of us have included a .sig. In the majority of occasions it has
been a single .sig in the initial post, and has been jumped on publicly
by the rest of us, as will be noticed by the comments within the thread
itself. The attacks that have been made privately and publicly are not
only unnecessary but also show a considerable intolerance and arrogance.
Sometimes this happens by default with the mailer, and can't be helped.
It says above that it is unnecessary to do it, but not that it is
*against the law.* Again, sometimes it happens, and when your going
through a lot of mail, it's sometimes a reflex reaction to hit send, and
once that's done there's no way to stop it. The people being complained
about have a busy life, and receive a *lot* of mail. just because all
the *current people* are perfect and have never made mistakes doesn't
mean the rest of the world is like this.
When the mistake is made, we jump on it ourselves, and try to keep it
relevant to what we're doing. We all (the newcomers) apologise for these
errors, we are trying to keep it to a minimum. Again, something that is
being discussed offline, may provide a solution to these occasional
hiccups.
<quote>
This is also highly frowned upon, mostly because of the difficulty
in creating a log file. Discussion should occur rapidly enough
that quoting of will be unecessary. If you feel that you need to
address specific points, please try to simply address them without
wasting bandwidth with unecessary quoting. Use the text of the
posting to refresh everyone's memory if you can.
<unquote>
Yes it is frowned upon by the list to quote. And I can agree to the
reasoning with this method of thought. It makes a lot of sense, and
shouldn't be necessary. However, it is standard policy everywhere else,
to quote previous text. Where we are new to this, mistakes will be
made. What I fail to understand is the intolerance and outright bigotry
displayed by some people here. I'm not attacking everyone on PlotD,
some of you have been more than helpful, and extremely polite, but one
or two apparently just look for an excuse to bitch. Isn't there enough
hatred in the world without some sad sack bringing it to a mailing list
as well.
<quote>
Please note that subject lines WILL NOT be present in the edited
log, so if you have a subject line that is important to the
meaning of message, it will become confusing.
<unquote>
We use subject lines to identify out threads to ourselves and to others
who are joining us, we are shortly going to implement an idea that will
make it even easier to identify our threads. This should help those who
*hate* looking at our "crap" will help everyone identify the areas we
are working in, and prevent anyone having to go through *all* the mail
to identify what they are interested in. I notice a lot of you don't
bother with subject headers, and just post blank faced notes. The
primary reason we don't is so that the original listmembers won't get
confused as to what they're reading, and have to continually look at the
sender's name to see who has posted what.
For those of you who really, really don't want to read the things we're
posting, please use the kill file option in your mailer to prevent
either delivery or display of stuff you have no interest in.
Some mailers, don't do this, for those people, there is little help,
and I can but apologise, however, these people will be aware of the
problem, and will know how to deal with it. The other thing is that the
majority of mailers are capable of killing a person/thread/etc, I have
mine set to refuse mail from certain individuals, and it is intelligent
enough to do so within a newsgroup/mailing list as well as privately.
This is another option for those who object to our "crap".
<quote>
Flaming:
Isn't very nice, period. If it gets too bad, you will be deleted from
the list.
<unquote>
Remember this when you flame me for this post. I don't particularly
care if I'm deleted from the list. PlotD and Shadowtk are not following
what I believed to be the protocols set out by FASA and the outlines of
the FAQ. Also I have no time for bigots who are incapable of rational
discussion and only indulge their somewhat feeble mentality by flaming
anything they dislike. If you have constructive and coherent
observations about this (taken from the "official FAQ"!) fine, I'm
prepared to listen and see where I'm wrong. Not by current
interpretation.
<quote>
In general, any aspect of the Shadowrun society can be discussed.
Rumors, reports, opinions, etc. about the Shadowrun universe are the
subject.
<unquote>
This again indicates that anything goes, provided it follows the
required formatting of the text, and doesn't degenerate into idle babble
without the formatting.
It says *nothing*, I repeat NOTHING about having to play a game, or
follow planned plots. Plot discussion is for plotd, chatter to
formulate these plots is for Shadowtk. I might be wrong in my
interpretation of the FAQ, if this is the case then I can only blame the
FAQ itself. I was very much under the opinion, as are a great many
other people, that Shadowtk, is for In Character discussion, this is
also made apparent by the FAQ, .... However, it would appear that
something is wrong. Any attempt at discussion of Shadowrun society,
rumours, reports, opinions etc. made in Shadowtk is immediately jumped
upon unless it is in "game" form and discussed first in PlotD.
I'm sorry, but either I've interpreted two very clear paragraphs
incorrectly, or the lists have reverted from their original purpose and
are now being used for different purposes. Again I think this is
something that needs to be clarified and pointed out in the FAQ itself.
<quote>
Any world shaking plots, or plots that will directly or indirectly
affect other characters should be discussed on the PLOT-D list
beforehand. (See part 7)
<unquote>
I don't have a problem with this. If we were going to discuss Asteroid
M192-Az/7 smashing into the earth, we'd have to be complete idiots
anyway. FASA have not indicated the destruction of the planet beyond
the Horrors thread. And as far as I'm aware, neither are we.
<quote>
Over one hundred people subscribe to this list, and everyone wants to
feel as individual and special as the next. To this end, please keep
the following parameters in mind when creating stories and characters.
<unquote>
I find this statement interesting. I can well believe that over one
hundred people subscribe, but how many are discourage from posting as a
result of witnessing the savagery that was going on recently, and are
not aware or able to understand what is happening here.
<quote>
4: Above All, HAVE FUN!
<unquote>
Did some people forget this part of the FAQ, or they just suffering from
massive humour loss. This isn't real. Nobody's life depends on it.
There is no earth shattering natural law of gravitation and physics that
is being shattered because people want to have fun, and occasionally
make mistakes. Isn't there enough hatred, arrogance, anger, and bigotry
in this world without bringing it here???
hoping for constructive opinions :)
Dark Avenger
__ \ | \
| | _` | __| | / _ \ \ \ / _ \ __ \ _` | _ \ __|
| | ( | | < ___ \ \ \ / __/ | | ( | __/ |
____/ \__,_|_| _|\_\ _/ _\ \_/ \___|_| _|\__, |\___|_|
A dark shadow in a dark world |___/
