| From: | Avenger <Avenger@********.DEMON.CO.UK> |
|---|---|
| Subject: | Re: RAWRGH! |
| Date: | Thu, 12 Dec 1996 05:55:52 +0000 |
neon@*******.EDU writes
>> while back, and some of the royal arguments that have flared here on
>> occassion with other people. but what does that achieve????
>
>My response to IF1? I was helpful, and gave tips as to what was
>going on and how to do things.
Yes you were helpful, at least to myself and one other that I know of,
the _your_ was a general thing, you have a reputation as an accomplished
flamer, but this is from some time back, and not during the IF period.
>> I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you're getting so worked up
>> about,
>
>Worked up? No. That was sarcasm. I've heard several comments to
>the effect of "this is so that other people won't make mistakes and
>be treated the same way we were." I'm just tired of them, and wanted
>to say it. Admittedly, I decided to say it sarcastically.
OK, fair enough, I'm sorry but it didn't look like sarcasm. (maybe a
bit of formatting in PlotD would be a good idea <grin>
Something like
<sarcasm>
Bloody IF-1 whingers
</sarcasm>
<grin>
>You didn't offend me, and I'm sorry that people in IF1 had people
>yell at them after they sent poorly formated mail. But that
>happens. I had problems when I started (I forgot about my sig twice)
>and learned real quick.
Yes it does happen, I think most of IF got shouted at because of the
poor formatting, but that was due to an overeagerness to play about on
the list, and an unfamiliarity with the formatting. Unfortunately, this
flaming occassionally goes beyond the "Read the bloody FAQ you moron..."
The formatting _should_ have cleared up by now, but I have noticed some
silly errors still occurring, it get's jumped on when it happens, but
unfortunately, well... we've all seen it. :(
>I think 99% of problems can be solved if the FAQ is sent out when
>people join (if it's read).
Agreed, again, the problem is that it rarely _is_ read. FAQ means
frequently asked questions, as we all know. This, on other lists
usually just repeats things like, don't include binaries to the list,
blah blah, and doesn't go on at length about formatting. The format of
posts on Shadowtk, is pretty important to maintain the illusion of a
FASA style BBS, there's no argument there, but unfortunately, the FAQ
should be renamed, or titled accordingly to make sure that people
understand it contains formatting instructions, not list data.
maybe a complementary e-mail pointing this out to newbies... that the
FAQ is _essential_ reading, and that they should read it and ask any
questions on PlotD
Again, PlotD is not mentioned in any strength, either as a part of the
Welcome to Shadowtk e-mail or with any point near the beginning of the
FAQ. PlotD _is_ important to Stk. So maybe it should have a greater
prominance.
You'll have to excuse me if I seem to be talking out of my arse, because
I have no idea how the listserv works, or if it can be set up to send
out default emails to new subscribers. But if it can, it might be
worthwhile doing this, if only as a
"Hello and welcome to Shadowtk, Please subscribe to the sister list
PlotD as well, and make sure you read both parts of the FAQ, as they are
very important to any use you wish to make of the lists."
Or some such thing... :)
>But, that had apparently not happened
>with IF1 (on both sides) and continues to go on, and that's why
>there's so many newbies who come on with poor formatting. And I
>think some of us are under the impression that the FAQ still goes out
>when ppl subscribe (I know I certainly am/was) and _thats_ why we're
>horrified when people format incorrectly.
I really don't know, a friend of mine subscribed to Stk, and it was over
a week before he received part one of the FAQ, he had no idea of the
existence of PlotD, until he spoke to me about this wierd Shadowrun
thing he'd found... Thankfully I managed to catch him before he made a
mistake, and he's now happily lurking and watching.
>As for elitism, I don't believe in that. I didn't experience it.
>Paul joined about the same time I did, and he's certainly not
>suffering. While I haven't been included in every plot, there's
>usually a reason. And I highly doubt it's because "your new here, go
>away." Hell, Brian Angliss let my new character have a fairly good
>sized role in his Maxim story.
The comment about elitism, wasn't in relation to being accepted in other
plots, that's immaterial, most of the time, people want to start
something of their own, and hope other people will show an interest in
it, as you know, sometimes threads do just die from lack of interest, it
happens on other lists as well. No the comment was aimed mainly at the
more vociferous and angry listmembers, who will take a badly formatted
post from a newcomer, and leap about casting fireballs at it in a
desperate attempt to make the guy understand he's just boobed. It is
this very anger, and shouting, cursing that creates the elitist
atmosphere, people see that happening, and think to themselves, "Oh
bloody hell, I;m not hanging around here and putting up with that..."
It gives across an air, of "How dare you come here and do that, bugger
off, this is _our_ playground.."
You know what I'm trying to say??? <badly I'll admit>
>So I'm not upset with anyone about posting. I just wanted it to be
>known that I've seen enough "IF1 was treated like hell when we
>joined" posts that I'm tired of.
I agree with you that it does get a bit tedious if used all the time,
but as you stated yourself in this post, when you joined you got in
trouble for adding a sig to a couple of posts, so all that is happening
is that newcomers are being made to understand that it _does_ happen,
even though Mark I made a big point in the FAQ of saying the flaming
isn't nice, don't do it.
Maybe it could be better put by saying, something like... "Hey, don't
worry, everybody here got flamed when they first joined and made
mistakes, it's no biggie, but what you should've done is....."
Which brings up the chicken and egg theory, who was the first flamer and
flamee??? Nah, I'm not going to get into that one.
>Everyone was treated bad if they
>didn't bother to read the FAQ. Which brings up the "send it to all
>re-joiners" thing again.
That's all well and good, but if they didn't read it the first time,
because they didn't realise the import of the document, they're not
likely to read it the second time, and poor old Jim can't go chasing
_every_ single offender when they start, the poor guy won't have any
time left to get on with his life.
>Oh well. I'll try and tone down the sarcasm next time. :)
No, please don't, I enjoy sarcasm, when I recognise it as such. Maybe a
little _formatting_ next time ??? <grin>
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