| From: | Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK> |
|---|---|
| Subject: | Re: Info wanted... |
| Date: | Sun, 30 Mar 1997 05:58:51 +0100 |
<shadowtk@********.DEMON.CO.UK> writes
>In message <tmzFlFAFjTPzEwae@*******.demon.co.uk>, Avenger
><Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK> writes
>>Berenger look alike (from Rustlers Rhapsody) <grin> (No offence meant
>>Paul)
>
>None taken. Mind
Oh good. :)
>you, I see Lynch more as John Clark from Tom Clancy's
>novels: and especially from the movie "Clear And Present Danger".
You're more familiar with your character, and obviously had a concept
from which to create him, I merely know him from the conversations we've
had prior to playing a game, the list, and private mail. So my
"picture" would be different. I can see the Clark connection though.
>>classic music, and classic tales. I don't think it would be a
>>reflection of society in 2058, just a personal preference.
>
>It's meant to be an anachronism, not a reflection of the superiority of
>this period :) Just the way the character developed since 1989, not a
>heavy statement.
Didn't figure it for a heavy statement, I always looked at it in the
same way as antiques collectors now, they like the period, and therefore
collect items from that period. I always stuck Lynch as that sort of
collector. :)
>Some runner teams could make a Johnson's life short, painful and
>interesting, though. The success rate need not be high for that to be a
>deterrent: having to involve Security and other agencies to shut down an
>"unsanctioned" operation could be penalty enough for many shadowruns
>(since not all involve the approval of, or are in the best interests of,
>Johnson's employers).
Agreed, I'll not repeat myself here, as my comments are in the previous
post. The flip side to that, is that although yes, some runners could
have that effect, Johnson has a very good defence, he works for, is
employed by or contracted to a corp, to hire Runners for a job, if a
team or individual kills a Johnson, that news is likely to get around,
meaning that other Johnsons are likely to be more nervous about dealing
with this person/team, resulting in less employment. A vicious circle
where both parties have a certain unwritten code to operate by.
Shadowrunners don't cack a Johnson without justification, and Johnsons
don't rip Runners without justification. The Thieves Code, if you will.
>>upgrade. Paul works for a defence firm, designing and producing
>>materials for the military, again, not something for the average person.
>
>Yep. If you gave us more budget and training, Pete's "decker who can
>take care of himself" and I'm the merc that Fields of Fire was written
>for :)
I like the "gave us more budget" bit.. Anyone offering???? <grin>
>Pete's right, though. Compare the Archetypes offered as starting PCs to
>the Contacts in SR2, or (if you have Sprawl Sites) to the Contacts in
>there. Your typical Shadowrun PC is considerably more capable than the
>average citizen.
Thanks, that was a better example, one that slipped passed my overeager
fingers.
>I work in a "guarded facility" where the guards don't have truncheons,
>let alone guns, and it would be pretty hard to pull off a raid on it
>unless you were willing to accept a double-figure body count.
>
>As for hitting RNAD Frater (where our products are stored and
>maintained)... forget it. Even visiting contractors meet gun-toting
>security, and this in the UK where armed police are confined to airports
>and weapons stored in locked cases in patrol cars. That site would need
>a pretty exceptional team to crack.
Something that is not covered accurately in SR. Listening to the
majority of players posting in Shadowrun and Cyberpunk, and the
simplistic way that such opposition is overcome here on tk, Sec Guards
and Lone Star/Cops are merely "Star Trek Red Shirts", untrained dopes
who are simply targets for the runners. Incapable morons whose biggest
ambition in life is to get to the next donut stop. The Sec Guards and
police in my particular little world, as Paul knows, are far more
professional, and more of a threat to the runners. It's difficult,
without making a real effort at writing, to get across the skill
required to quietly bypass even a poor sec team. Something that is not
reflected well in the list, or in many players minds. A comment is made
in one of the Sourcebooks, that Lone Star require that a candidate knows
which way a gun points and can hit a barn... Bollocks. If we ran our
present law enforcement agencies like that, then the US and other parts
of the world would have the same restrictions Britain now has... No
guns. No automatics, no large calibre (above .22) handguns, etc, etc.
but we'll let the criminals have them, because they know what they're
doing with them, and won't kill innocent people. And the fatality rate
for bystanders would be far higher than it is. I can't believe that the
entire contingent of Lone Star, FBI, etc. are unskilled bozos waiting
for a runner to shoot them. They are trained individuals who pose a
real threat to the Runners.
(Sorry, I ran off at the fingers again, and lost the point I was trying
to make. Paul knows what I'm like and is probably grinning right now.)
>>associate with. I always see this type of character as the shadow in
>>the corner, hiding from prying eyes, desperate not to be noticed, and
>>terminated by law enforcement.
>
>This is why Cybertechnology's "reflex trigger" is such a sought-after
>item.
Sought after, yes, available, hardly. Agreed though.
<snippy bit>
>target as a threat, is not a nice thing to have happen to a PC.
>Cybertechnology's introduction does a superb job of describing the
>problems of many cyber enhancements.
Agreed. It gives over the very clear impression of how it is to have
cyberware installed, the detachment that cybereyes offer, the supreme
almost uncontrollable strength of replaced/enhanced musculature, the
loss of tactile sensation with replacement limbs and the disassociation
with reality from overindulgence. Excellent piece of work, that more
players should read, but unfortunately don't bother with. I notice the
"can you combine Replacement with Augmentation debate is about to start
on Shadowrn again... <sigh>
>I've got a character coming in who's pretty dark. He probably won't last
>long, though....
None of the really dark ones do, unfortunate? I think so.
>>other basic characters I have wouldn't be able to utilise this node for
>>transfering data, and the plots I have ongoing would stop, as would
>>other people's.
>
>Well, some characters ride on the back of those deckers (Lynch and
>Lilith get access via Karlsbruhn, and more recently Flux).
<snippy bit>
Agreed again. Marathon is a decker, Paraquat gains access through
Cathy, Urbanus gains access through an associate, though he is able to
tortoise in. Avenger and the rest gain access through Gates. Gates is
the only character I have, with sufficient skill to find Shadowland and
play with the big boys, privately, as Paul knows, Gates is an supremely
efficient decker, here on Shadowtk, he's a small fry, in a big ocean,
and not up to the standard of the more experienced and older Flux, or
the Jakes. BUt having a decker post sections of content of actions
taken wouldn't achieve much of anything if that content was merely a
picture. I'm trying to justify the posts from Red Shift, by utilising
an archive, run in SA by a chap called Stonewall, someone all the Merc
teams know about, and who keeps datastores to assist them in their
work... obviously for financial reward. Otherwise, much of the Red
Shift plot would be invisible and senseless. As regards the rest of my
characters, if the list was jacked up to reflect the skills of the long
term characters, they and many other characters would effectively be cut
out from making any posts, and I don't want to play "supremely skilled,
all powerful" characters, I like the earthiness of low power. the
knowledge that at any time I can kill a character without having to
think, well, now how much damage is he likely to do? Later on, when the
Urbanus plot starts to liven up, I will need more experienced and
powerful deckers to achieve certain things, but I don't feel at the
moment, that the current character content would accept that work, they
already have company affiliations that preclude their involvement in
something as dodgy as that would produce, increasing the "level" of this
list, would deny access to those types of characters.
>It does, though, irritate when children are able to post "help me, help
>me" messages so easily.
Agreed. Having said that, one or two kids would be capable. There is a
12 year old in the States, called Nic, he is what I would describe as a
wizkid. He writes programmes in four languages, he's got a pretty good
website, and is already associated with a couple of the larger "hacker"
rings. Not bad for a "kid". And it's not often that a kid posts to
the list, just when someone wants to have an irritating squirt around
for a moment. Like Dashira and whoever Tinners kid was during Thunda.
>A dissenting opinion. A board like this _would_ be monitored. What
>shadowrunners can create, corporations and national intelligence
>organisaions can read.
Not dissenting. I agree a board like this would be monitored, but
really, would SIGA, FBI, Lone Star, Serenity really use this board for
their conversations? I think not. Too many good deckers would live
here that may intercept that information, or get curious about the busy
datastream between the FBI and SIGA, or Serenity and someone. OK, it's
essential to certain areas of the plots to have their posts available
for S-tk to read, but is not really something I think would happen. The
FBI, though they undoubtedly monitor Seattles Shadowland boards, are
highly unlikely to make their presence known. And certainly wouldn't
use it for traffic. :) (Though for the moment they will continue to do
so <g>)
>If it's available to competent runners with
>decker contacts, then for sure Fuchi, Renraku, Ares, Aztlan, the UCAS et
>al can read it. If Fuchi can't access it, neither can most of the
>characters currently posting.
But increasing the intrinsic power level of this list, would also reduce
and prevent characters posting. Look at it another way. Although as
you know Gates is very skilled in my game, and provides the team with
valuable information in exchange for payment, if he had arrived on this
board with those skills and attitude, I would have been (deservedly)
flamed out of existence, because I rearranged his stats and skills, and
equipment, and brought him to a "newcomer" entrance level, nobody has
complained about his presence. The same for Marathon, his skills
privately are a lot higher than here in the list. Over time, I will be
able to increase his abilities, as the list becomes more familiar with
him, and he grows in here. But to have a net god suddenly arrive would
be ridiculous, and uninteresting. Something I feel would happen, if the
level of this list was increased. I know quite a few people who post
here, who don't want to play with "Superhero" characters. Just slightly
more than ordinary joes, who want to make a living.
>IMHO most of the contributors recognise this: and the demands of writing
>interesting and entertaining plotlines override total realism.
Up to a point I agree with you, and as I said, although I disagree with
the strength and primarily corporate/company presence here, there have
been some well written and entertaining posts. But many of the
characters here are old and well established, for instance some of the
characters present have been here since the lists creation, and have
gained their power and respect over those four years, in order to
compete with them, on a stricter regime for this list, I would have to
introduce new characters of an equal power level, something I don't find
interesting, and would initially cause trouble with the listmembers, If
Mark has been using Flux four several years, the last thing he needs is
some upstart twerp bringing in a character who is equal in skill, it is
also, mostly unbelievable. That there is no reason I can't have one of
that skill and strength is not an issue, I would rather see the power
level in here drop, than climb a few notches. More runners, less
company affiliates. More interaction, less "supreme runner". Everyone
has a favoured character. In my case it's Avenger and Gates, my wife
favours Shado, Vael, although he would like to change it a bit, has his
own, and that applies to everyone. The difficulty arises when low power
characters like mine meet more skilled people similar to the one's on
this list. Avengers stats, skills and experience, put him beyond the
reach of even someone like Lynch, who is two years his senior on this
list, but he can't fly, he doesn't have acces to a strong company like
SIGA, and doesn't have a passion for antiques, this reduces his skill
level to reflect Lynch's longer presence, and the fact that it would be
silly for me to play a high power, superhero. I'm not comfortable with
that style of play. Although it might be cool to have him destroy
everything in sight without the slightest problem, it's ludicrous and
unbelievable, and I would expect to get shouted at for the effort.
However, some of the things Lynch does, that I wouldn't dream of doing,
are acceptable, because of his longer presence on the list. The other
listmembers are familiar with the character, they have associated with
him longer, and can accept some of the things he does without question.
(This isn't a moan, honest) Ultimately deciding that only highly
skilled characters could gain access to this list, wouldn't prevent
Lynch or Dragoneyes or similar from posting, but it would prevent many
others from doing so.
For instance, if say, Brain A was to introduce a powerful character for
a few months as part of his plotline, and also introduce a lower skilled
new character, nobody would comment, because eveyrone is familiar with
his style, and would expect something interesting from both characters.
If someone else, like for instance, erm... Gweedo, was to introduce a
character of equal skill to Mark I's Flux, there would be some outcry.
If the level of this list is increased to reflect the skills off Lynch
and Flux, the introduction of a powerful first timer would be essential,
how else could he have accessed this board, something that would invite
problems, trouble, arguments and encourage munchkinism. And everybody
here who knows me, knows well my opinions of munchkins. <grin> But it
would be a deserved label.
I know I'm starting to repeat myself, but increasing the level of this
list to reflect the greater skills of the posters would not assist the
list, if anything it would be likely to close it even more to newcomers
than it ever has before. Dropping the strength and power of the
characters accessing this list, would perhaps be a better way of dealing
with the problem.
>I'd like
>to see fewer PRIVATE: headers, but that's going to take a culture change
>on S-Tk.
Not a culture change, I don't think, but a conscious decision on the
style of posts. Much of what happens between D'Arlan and SIGA, is not
going to be done on an open channel, same between Red Shift and Emma,
they are likely to want to keep their conversations pretty quiet, a NOT
TO: wouldn't achieve that. OK, It would look better with a TO: header,
than the PRIVATE, but, doesn't reflect the secrecy behind the posts.
Also, my problem with NOT TO: was used to effect during Thunda. People
posting "NOT TO: Thunda" doesn't preclude his associates. Offering a
25K reward for his death, must be readable by others he is associated
with, on the off chance that one of them may want to claim that reward.
I don't feel that NOT TO: is reflective of any encryption, and shouldn't
preclude a teams access to that post, just the addressed person. For a
lot of posts, that style of encryption is probably just fine, but it is
self defeating in its purpose.
For example, if Marathon really cheeses someone off, and they offer
2,500K to kick his butt in a NOT TO post. There is a good possibility
that an associate will remark on that in the bar he frequents.
"Oh hey, Marathon, what the hell did you do to get that price on your
head?"
"What price?"
"The 2.5K to kick your ass, from >so-and-so<"
>NOT TO: is a good workaround for plot purposes, but Thunda ignoring it
>crippled that particular device. While it's unrealistic, it has a lot of
>value for this list.
It has it's uses, if total agreement is reached on it's encryption
value, but it isn't logical.
NOT TO: Lynch, would not prevent Easy, Lillith, Quint or SIGA from
reading that post, unless you agreed to that, and it would not be a
logical decision, neither would it be logical to decide that none of
Lynch's many contacts would see it either.
I agree, and would like to see fewer PRIVATE headers, even though I am
guilty of using them a hell of a lot. I don't see an easy work around
to be honest, and also remember the endless posts on this subject last
year :)
--
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A Dark Shadow in a Dark World |___/
