| From: | Bruce Ford <shaman@*******.COM> |
|---|---|
| Subject: | Re: Bus Killings & LSSS (Couple of things...) |
| Date: | Thu, 26 Feb 1998 02:00:13 -0700 |
> OK, good question. This is answered in great depth in the Shadowrn Logs
> and Logs from this list (PlotD) Where the population of mages is
> discussed in quite heavy detail. There are a fair number of personnel
> in the LSS DPI division, but only a few active mages, and not enough for
> "active astral patrol" - they are far too busy with magical crime.
The astral back-up unit waits in a room to be called in to action. They
are not active until called upon. Now, I grant you that they are there to
deal with magical crime for the most part but in something this extreme
with backup being unavailable for X amount of time, especially with so
many buses at the same time, I would want something that would give me an
edge..that edge could easily be a quick astral survey...mage goes in and
reads the crooks aura, gets a better idea what is going on and reports to
the officer in charge.
> Although yes, the bombings are an important event, and would receive
> overwhelming attention from the Star, the chances of them being able to
> field sufficient mages to cover each event "with elementals dragged
> along" is not in my opinion reasonable to assume. There are very few
> "fully fledged mages" in Seattle. Very few. Allowing for natural
> wastage into corporate and government employment, aggerssive employment
> techniques employed by Ares, Renraku, Azxtechnology, those who never
> even find out they're mages, and the few who are swallowed by the
> shadows, all implies that the DPI will be horribly understaffed.
The Star being unable to field one mage per bus, in that I would disagree,
especially since you don't even need fully fledged mages but for the sake
of argument, let us say that D.P.I. cannot field those mages. What about
SWAT combat mages...the ones that do go into the field to backup the
regular patrols, that do go into the trenches. The SWAT vehicle is
detained, the mage can still go astral after all he knows where his body
is going to. He can at least recon the situation which is the most
important aspect of any given "situation," that of knowledge.
The D.P.I. is a small department but given how they go on about their
budget, I would not consider them understaffed.
> The implication through the book, is that Lone Star relies heavily on
> it's mundadne forces, using the more favoured and elite DPI for those
> extra special moments when something magical is going down that the Star
> _needs_ to attend to.
Mundanes are seen in greater numbers because they are quicker to train and
put on the street but the Star would look for any edge and magic would
give them an edge. If they were kept for precisely magical threats, they
wouldn't be in an average SWAT team.
> Again, I'm going to try not to rehash an old argument here, but in
> general the world of Shadowrun is not as magic rich as many would like,
> and that seems to be the general agreement of the list as well.
I would tend to disagree there, FASA's development of the SR line has been
way more slanted toward magic and magical threats then toward mundane or
technological threats. It is and will continue to be a magical world and
that magic will continue to build due to the very history that has been
set down for the game.
> Normal operational procedure for security services and Federal agents is
> to negotiate and try to contain a situation while talking the suspects
> down. What the police couldn't have known in the bus situations was
> that the intention was to kill the passangers all along. They are
> legally bound by their own, and UCAS operational procedures to attempt a
> peacful solution. Attack is the last option.
Magic has way more diversity then attack, which is kind of ironic coming
from me as I tend to prefer mundanes but I have played mages and one of
their greatest versatilities is gather recon, not only through astral but
a number of spells...
> That's not to say that in the end, when SWAT goes in, that a mage won't
> be present - but where is he best employed - backing up SWAT with magic,
> or attacking on his own and possibly risking the mission and his fellow
> officers. I personally would use him to back up the SWAT team, rather
> than risk passengers and men by allowing an elemental attack on an
> individual basis, knowing that magic was not 100% reliable and the Mage
> might fail - dramatically.
Again, attack?? I pretty much have been saying all along to use them as
backup, but one of the best ways would be through recon...if the police
knew that the kidnappers were not at all willing to negotiate which with a
proper aura reading the mage would have a clue, the police would have
acted. As for the elementals, they could be used in a protective manner
themselves.
> If the DPI were larger, and magic was so much more diverse and more
> magical people present, the mundane side of Shadowrun suddenly becomes
> pointless.
Anything but...the mundane does not become pointless but I guess that
really comes down to a matter of gaming style and campaign development.
> Magic answers all problems. It can be used to contain a bomb blast, a
> Shadowrun team are running from corporate grounds - half a dozen
> elementals and a mana ball, bye bye runners. A gunman is holding
> hostages in a supermarket because he hates soy burgers. No matter a
> mage, half a dozen elementals and bingo, he's toast. This is part of
> the reason I feel that FASA make such a big point of magic being so very
> rare that only 0.01% of the magically active in the world are fully
> capable mages. Otherwise everything must head towards magic, and you no
> longer have Shadowrun but Magerun. Mages and magic are powerful tools
> and opponents, that in my opinion means they're kept to a minimum. On
> top of this is the inate distrust that people display for things they
> don't understand - in several sourcebooks it is mentioned that "most
> people have never seen magic used, or met a mage"
> (Grimoire/Awakenings/etc) except for what's present on trid programs.
I disagree with this as well, magic does not solve all problems..it can
help and it can hinder. Yes FASA initially suggested keeping the number
of practitioners down but look at their recent products...more and more it
concentrates on magic...it's a direction I don't care for but I do realize
that it is still a very vital part of the game and one that makes it
Shadowrun...it will not go away by ignoring it. Magic is a part of the
game and if Awakenings is any indication more then a few people have met a
magician by now.
> Now, for example, you've got the bus hostage situation. Suddenly a
> bunch of elementals - essentially formless creatures constructed of
> earth, fire whatever. manifests inside the bus and takes out the bad
> guys. Great, happy ending - but, there are thousands of people who just
> saw something "appear" in the middle of nowhere -
>
> "...hell, that could happen anywhere, even here in my living room -
> who's monitoring these guys? Who's controlling these guys? They can
> kill with just a thought - look, the mage wasn't even there!..."
>
> Then of course there is the psychological trauma of having something
> suddenly appear out of mid air, and incinerate or tear limb from limb
> the person that was holding a gun on you, or simply engulf them - not
> good for PR. Law suits would flood into the Star from those people who
> claim psychological or physical trauma. The US is the law suit capital
> of the world, what would happen to change that in 2059? Law suits are
> big money. :)
And this is better then letting them watch themselves get inciterated or
ripped apart by automatic weapons. In the end, in my opinion the Star
would have taken that risk rather then appear to be impotent and allowing
the hostages to be killed.
> "Sorry officer I shot him because he was trying to control my mind and
> make me do something really terrible and awful." Could you prove
> differently?
>
> Can you see the problem and the possible trend?
I can see it and I have seen it. FASA already follows that trend with
pretty well every corporation out there, keeping DNA samples and other
nice little tricks to keep their mages in line. LoneStar is also known
for creating stricter laws in the books of the cities that they protect to
deal with magical crime.
> This is another reason, why I feel that the Star among other agencies
> and corps, would keep the magic to a minimum, Mages most certainly would
> be aware of the risks inherent in their abilities, and would not like
> being DNA typed, registered, tagged and monitored.
I don't see it quite the same, Corps would attempt to maximize their
magical assests while minimizing their oppositions and any law enforcement
agency is in an ideal position to do so. LoneStar as I said above has a
habit of making the laws about practicing and licensing stricter.
> It's a delicate situation. So, I tend to reserve the DPI, for those
> situations that really need them, and even then they are going to be
> subtle. Magic is too easy to be the "ultimate" answer, it's too easy to
> explain everything as "magic", it's too easy to allow it to take over a
> game and thusly a game world. FASA limited it for a very good reason,
> and I believe that reason was so that people would use other characters
> and play the game as it was intended and not just have continual teams
> of mages. :) Sometimes it's more fun to make magic rare, and add more
> mystery and threat to it by that method. When a team run for a while
> without encountering or understanding magic, it has that much greater
> effect when they do meet something.
Well, I can see your points. I tend to disagree with most of them,
especially about magic making things too easy but as I said above that is
a matter of game style and campaigns. I agree that in the beginning FASA
attempted to limit magic but in recent years its been anything but.
However, you did answer my questions. I think we will both agree that we
have a different viewpoint and probably will not see eye to eye. I thank
you for taking the time to answer my questions, we have both stated our
opinions on the matter and I think in the interest of not continuing what
has gone before I would like to leave it at that. If you wish to continue
to discuss it, we can take it up privately perhaps.
Thanks,
Bruce Ford.
