| From: | Jeffrey Mach <mach@****.CALTECH.EDU> |
|---|---|
| Subject: | Re: Mirrors, Corners, the Past, the Future |
| Date: | Mon, 9 Mar 1998 01:20:41 -0800 |
> On Sun, 8 Mar 1998, Mark L. Neidengard wrote:
> > and I emphatically do not want to see this list overrun by AI's,
> > Invae, or any number of the other bugbears waiting in the wings.
> The AS AI (if it is truly one - I for one do not know for certain) did
> gain some form and level of sentience by accident (from my understanding)
> which does seem to coincide with any mention made of AI's in the novels
> and hinted at within more then a few sourcebooks. Before anyone screams
> that the novels are not canon, I agree but they do tend to give FASA's own
> background of their world and many of the novels mention various
> informaion or events from sourcebooks and modules and vice versa.
I won't scream, but I will contend that they are not. From what I have
seen of the novels, a good number of them were not well inspected by the
creators of ShadowRun to see whether or not they were even close to being
within spitting distance of the original worldview concepts, besides just
being totally munchkin (*COUGH*Harliquin*COUGH*).
> They have cross-linked both and many players of the game use a fair amount
> of this background. However, it's funny the minute someone states
> something on these lists, they automatically think they have to consider
> it fact (see the whole astral in space argument), what is stated and what
> is are not always the same thing. Some people also tend to think that the
> given subject is going to play a huge part in the story that unfolds,
> again that is jumping to a conclusion.
I stated my opinion on this subject in the previous post. However, there
is a significant distinction. The Mighty Quinn, kooky as she is =)
stating that she has gone astral on the moon is one thing. Paul posting a
picture of her manifested next to the flag planted by Neil Armstrong, and
somehow certified by NASA is quite another. The former starts and
interesting conversation both on Tk and PlotD, the latter would have
started a significantly more heated conversation and the slinging of
mega-tonnage of carp towards Great Britain. The difference is the
statement of a person and the description of evidence.
> As for the list, I was under the impression that this was a story board
> where several writers could if they so choose interact and in a sense
> write a tale about occurrances in the world of Shadowrun.
A fine distinction: it is a tale about occurances in the world of
ShadowTk, which is not exactly the same thing. For one thing, people have
plots ongoing, and then sourcebooks come out which contradict what was
going on. Usually, new information like this is slowly phased in as the
stories allow, but for the most part, preference is given to the writers
here. Case in point: there was a rather extensive storyline going on
regarding a group of runners working in the Chicago Containment Zone. Then
Target UCAS comes out and says, "Well, we sure cleaned that mess up."
Dated previous to when the people were still posting about their runners
in the CZ. The result? Yes, the CZ came down, but in ShadowTk
continuity, it was on a later date than when it occured in the sourcebook.
> Some limits
> must be set to maintain cohesiveness but one of the main ones was keep it
> to base FASA publications, I find your statements about Invae
> interesting...Invae are FASA Canon. They ARE part of the world, they do
> affect it ... hell they affected the Election of '57.
Mark's chiding of the Invae is something I have to agree with. Note that
he said "overrun." The Invae, if run properly according to what they were
originally purported to be, are _hideously_ powerful. One moment, they
were everywhere, lurking under evey rock and in every nook and cranny and
were turning Chicago into a hellhole. Then, all of a sudden, *bing* they
go away by FASA writer fiat. Of course, there are a good number of people
around here that don't exactly buy that, especially the Invasion Force 1
crew I alluded to earlier. A good bug's first instinct when you turn on
the lights is to scurry into a deep dark hole somewhere and come back out
as soon as you are gone. On the other hand, there was considerable
credulity by people on the list over the Invae being everywhere (Universal
Brotherhoods popping up in every city, bodysnatchings galore). They make
good Alien/Invasion of the Body Snatcher-esque villains when used in
moderation, but can be easily abused in both directions. So, certain
things around here aren't _exactly_ what FASA purports them to be, but
that's why we have PlotD to iron out the rough edges.
There was a time when eveybody and their cousin wanted to have their
characters battling Wraiths. Then somebody pointed out how, by FASA's
rules how utterly exponentially nasty they are, if they were used to their
sourcebook-given potential, and there were that many of them, they'd have
won by now. So, there were the non-FASA-cannon Redmond Riots. And _one_
just _one_ of these things was taken out through great loss of life and
significant property damage (and the intervention of a nasty free spirit
with plans of its own).
> I doubt I would ever use bugs on this list as I have my fill in real games
> but I would not object to others using them. There are other things on
> this list I am not comfortable with and as such I will likely ignore them
> and not interact with said storyline but I will not ask them to stop
> because it is not my world view.
Just because they pop up shouldn't keep you from discussing them.
Hell, when I was a newbie, I nearlly fell of my chair when Paul mentioned
in passing that Lilith was a shapeshifter. But he and I discussed it
(mostly off list) and from what he explained and how he ran the character
(and how established the character was with everybody else), I decided the
ShadowTk worldview wasn't incompatible with the way I wanted to run my
stories and accepted it as part of the way STk is. I still think she's
dangling her feet over the edge of what's in bounds, but the character is
at least well written. And that is worth a few points in my book to
balance things out.
> It's funny in a way, cause there was a comment about an old boy's club
> running around and it may not be as bad as it once was but it certainly
> seems like the 'Old-timers' have a vision of what this list is and where
> it should go and what should be allowed....Some of you have stated you
> have stretched what is canon, please give us the courtesy of potentially
> doing the same before flying to the attack.
I think, what your missing here, is the fact that when the non-cannon
things that exist on ShadowTk were brought up, way back when the "old
boy's" were "young" they had people "flying to the attack" as
bad, or
worse. It is by no means a new thing. It _always_ happens this way. If
anybody's idea can't stand up to a little criticism, or they don't feel it
worthy to stand up for it, maybe they should reconsider things a bit and
listen to what other people have to say that may be constructive and lead
to a better story in the end.
> As long as the story is within the realms of FASA canon then I think
> whatever it is should be allowed on the list. If you happen not to like
> it or don't agree with it, you don't have to interact with it.
Problem is...unfortunately, FASA is far from perfect. And as writers, we
are obligated to write as perfect a story as we possibly can. Which
sometimes puts us at odds with FASA. As an Aerospace Engineering major, I
can tell you right now some of their ideas about vehicles and vehicle
design are downright screwy, but for the most part (other than the Banshee
<GRRRRR!>) they are honest "errors" made in favor of keeping the system
simple and playable. Similar things abound across the board.
While true, to a degree, that minor disagreements can usually be settled
by mutual ignorance, some things that one writer may want to do, that they
believe to be within "FASA cannon" directly effect and/or contradict what
somebody else is trying to do while within what that other person believes
to be "FASA cannon." Let's face it, FASA cannon is, at times, a very
nebulous thing. Which is, again, why we have PlotD. Where people have
the opportunity to debate such things and come to concensus, or simply
agree to disagree if the point is minor enough.
--My two yen
Jeff
