| From: | Jeffrey Mach <mach@****.CALTECH.EDU> |
|---|---|
| Subject: | Re: Prophet's Soul |
| Date: | Wed, 25 Mar 1998 16:19:18 -0800 |
here. It's seriously weirding me out. Especially because I started it.
First of all, it is begining to sound like people are taking this argument
a lot more personally than they should. The name-calling and hyperbole on
both sides are getting a little silly.
> Okay, then you tell that guy/gal (which I really doubt will happen at the rate
> of contrition here) that "Ereskanti was someone who pushed the boundaries of
> SR Canon to points that the rest of the list was uncomfortable with, yet did
> it completely within the rules of the game, just to -THE- limits of the rules
> of the game."
This is the actual point of discussion. There are quite a few people that
don't think that certain things casually mentioned in the post were within
the rules of the game. That you yourself consider the actions to have
"pushed the boundaries of SR Canon," is a good hint that you may have
wanted to consider taking some of the concepts to PlotD (see quote below).
<<rearrange for clarity>>
> The difference is I am not totally afraid of the surprise. I let go of the
> control in the games here, which were -MINE- for 11 years in all. I did it
> because it really and truly was time to do so.
There is "surprise," in the sense of "wow, that's a turn of events I
didn't expect" and there's a "surprise" in the sense of "Guess what? I
just blew up Zurich Orbital!" Now, a good surprise is usually a good
thing, in that it keeps things fresh. A bad surprise tends to aggrivate
people because it effects the way the world works and even though they
were directly effected, they were never given any say in the matter.
> Plot-D may or may not be a place to "air out" the ideas, but it is also a
> place where everyone "spoils the mystery" to varying extents. It is a
> sounding board, and nothing more.
It is a lot more than a sounding board. It was designed for discussion of
plots, so that matters that were questionable could be hammered out by
group consensus before they effected the game world.
To quote the FAQ:
> When generating stories that push the envelope of Shadowrun (i.e.,
> involve AIs, new magic, new corporations, new technology, or events that
> would make front-page news in the Seattle newsfax), you should first
> discuss it on Plot-D. There, you can get an idea as to how people will
> react, and get suggestions on how to make it work better.
You can easily discuss plot concepts without "spoiling" anything. It is
one thing to go onto PlotD and tell everbody exactly what you are doing.
Yes, that would be a "spoiler" and would be extreemely redundant. On the
other hand, it might have saved us all a lot of bandwidth to have simply
asked, "I have a mage character who wants to find out information about a
decker by using a quest for knowledge, what do people think he could find?
I was planning on having his Quest be: <<quoting you>>
> "I am seeking the source of the abilities that [the decker] possesses.
> I want to know if there are areas that can be used to keep him 'under
> control' that we can find. I want to know if there is a Virus or
> Safeguard that can implemented against his cyberdeck."
Now some might be able to guess who was looking for info on whom, but the
who's are unimportant. You would have had some sort of Gausian
distribution of opinions from the radical to the reactionary, on the
various topics. However, I think one general conscensus, given the
discussion lately would be that information about his cyberdeck would be
outside the bounds of any (or any sane) astral Quest.
> "That was a long time ago, and everyone learned something from it, even if
> they didn't want to believe they did. We learned that the "joint world"
> wasn't, and it never was."
That's a strange statement.
> Please note, at this time, I have not gotten a reply from Mark or Adam, but I
> am waiting patiently.
Adam? (== Paul?)
Anyhow, your post makes you seem to be under the mistaken assumption that
this is some big Play-by E-Mail run by a few people who are trying to
exclude you, and that the people who keep the list running are the final
arbiters.
Let me quote the FAQ here to illustrate my point:
> ********** A. What is ShadowTK?
> Shadowtalk is an interactive fiction mailing list based on the paper &
> pencil role-playing game Shadowrun, published by FASA. Members of the
> list post as characters in genre, and by responding to each other's
> posts "in character", stories are developed.
First, this is an mailing list for the writing of fiction. It is however,
_based_ on the game Shadowrun to allow for a common world and worldview
which is absolutely critical since first and foremost it is a list for
sharing _interactive_ fiction. What your characters say and do effects
the common world and worldview and in-turn can and will effect my
characters. Since it is interactive, I could say, collaborate with you
and have say, one of your characters assassinate one of my characters. At
which point, according to the list worldview, my character is now dead,
and if I suddenly had the character up and walk around as though nothing
had happened, I wouldn't be in violation of the worldview and would
probably be upsetting many people unless I had a good reason for what I
was doing, which I would have probably already discussed on PlotD:
"That's not really >>character<< BWAHAHAHAH *cough* *cough*
*cough*."
Worldview is _by consensus_ which means that it evolves over time
depending on who is around and who actually cares to voice their opinions.
It isn't invested in the hands of any one person, or cadre (although some
are more vocal than others). The only exception to this is that active
and flagrant violation of the policies of the list, designed to make this
place run well and smoothly, will result in one of the "listowners" having
to take action. This place is a democracy, they happen to be the cops
(and no Paul, you don't get a nifty badge to go with the title of "Nice
Guy Dread Executor"). On the other hand, the "silent majority" isn't
simply because if they don't care to voice their opinions when things are
being discussed, then they are actively forfiting their part in
controlling how the world develops. Lets be honest here. If FASA had
created Shadowrun to address every single possibility that could occur the
rulebook would be the size of the Encyclopedia Britanica. So arbitration
is needed to make sure the writers that are participating are happy with
the world they are writing in.
Yes, we try to run with FASA's vision of Shadowrun as much as possible,
but some small things are dented by what stories have gone on in ShadowTk
and the fact that FASA sourcebooks are historically retroactive. E.g.
FASA's blanket statement all Shapeshifters (Were-beings) reject all
cyberware. Now I wasn't there for what must have been a very heated
discussion when Paul first brought Lilith onto the list, a Shapeshifter
with a VCR, but he must have explained his reasoning thoroughly and to the
satisfaction of the writers that were operating at the time, and so it has
become part of the worldview that some Shapeshifters _can_ accept some
cyber that won't be rejected, but that it is very difficult, and very
expensive, and very experimental. That's part of the world, and I accept
it. I choose not to do anything with it, since I have no interest at this
time creating a Were-being, especially one that the government likes to
keep tabs on. I can only assume that when the Seattle Sourcebook is
updated there will be heated discussions over what "past" occurances in
their book are in significant conflict with what has happened over the
time-span of ShadowTk. I think it is safe to say that many events worth
mention in the sourcebook have occured on ShadowTk, but won't be
appearing. As a final example, that I think I have come to beat more than
a dead horse, is the Changeling character I run. No, you won't see the
Changeling listed in any Paranormal Animals of Wherever guides, but since
they are several similar beings of legend in many corners of the world, I
asked the list if they would mind if I came up with such a being. I
explained what I had in mind, roughly, and how it fell within the scope of
previous Paranormal Animals as well as what checks and balances I was
going to employ to make sure the character would neither get out of hand,
nor be a threat to anyone's worldview. I must have done a good job,
because other than a few concerns that I addressed, people thought it
wouldn't be a bad idea. In general, I have found that bringing a concept
(not a story mind you) to PlotD and discussing it rationally and
thoughtfully will get people to accept it a lot more easily than just
springing it on them (with all the wailing and gnashing of teeth that
usually follows), and what concerns and suggestions people do have often
lead to a better story in the end.
> No Frank, I am honestly not trying to come off wrong, but I am certain I will.
> I have seen the way you guys describe your characters' actions, and I have
> seen it all with very little mention to the -real details- on Plot-D.
I could be wrong, since I seem to remember the list thwapping Frank for
something or another not too long ago, but lately, the stuff he is
involving his characters in is simply so well within the bounds of what
has been going on that he hasn't felt the need to bring up any of the
points to plotd. Haze has a piece of cyberwear that transcribes his
thoughts to writing (they exist in the sourcebooks, IIRC, it is called a
Cybercom unit) so it is reasonable that the stuff he posts is stream of
consciousness, no conflict there. He has a family, big surprise. He's
gotten himself in over his head and torqued off the wrong people, par for
the course for many Shadowruns. In fact, the incident which lead to the
big mess that he was in, _was_ actually discussed on PlotD before it hit
the list. The writers didn't give many of the details, but they asked if
people would mind a major terrorist incident occurring involving several
city busses (just in case some runners happened to commute by public
transport). Their reasoning seemed sound, and Seattle has been prone to
semi-anual fits of terrorism, so nobody really objected. The writers
carried out the plan as it was given to them, but they also given freedom
to pull off their parts of it in slightly different ways. Haze's group
took some girls to rape before they hosed down the civilians with gunfire,
starting with the little kids. Neither the killings nor the rape were
outside the worldview. They happen easily enough in the "real world."
However, like the real world, actions have their consequenes, and with
some past bad blood between some characters, and the fact that he wasn't
too quiet about what he'd done ended Haze on some people's Shit-lists.
I hope this has been illuminating. If not please switch your background
to white and turn off the room lights.
--My two yen
Jeff
