| From: | Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM> |
|---|---|
| Subject: | I'm pissed now |
| Date: | Thu, 26 Mar 1998 17:24:33 -0500 |
what you did. Read on. It's long, but I suggest reading it all. And
right off the bat, I'm not going to apologize for my language or my opinions.
>Here is my list of requests then.
>
>"Black Omega" is a subgroup that belongs to Samantha Villiers by way of
Erik's
>games from home. I haven't found BO in the archives, but admittedly, I
>haven't looked that hard yet. Erik (by way of his characters) has indicated
>that Prophet should die because of his opinion to the threats of the power.
I don't appreciate a plot element of mine being introduced to the greater
list before I was ready to. You "outed" Black Omega and I don't appreciate
that. But it's not critical, so I might have been willing to overlook this
fact if it wasn't for what else you did.
As par as the Dark Stranger (which isn't me) wanting to kill Prophet,
THAT'S IN CHARACTER.
Imagine a PC with a loyalty to Fuchi. He hears that the President and CEO
has a bastard son. He also knows that the CEO is under tremendous pressure
from competing factions; and that this bastard son could be the single tool
that could topple the CEO. What is your character going to do? Let him
be? No, any good corporate soldier would decide that this threat, this
bastard son, needed to be eliminated.
Got nothing to do with how I personally feel; at least not until now.
>Okay, this is the reply.
>
>Erik, When and only when, the run is over, please ask Bruce what "TOSSIT"
can
>do would you please? You see, IN TOTAL PLAYER KNOWLEGE, and I did alert
>Bruce, but perhaps I should have alerted everyone. "TOSSIT" is a virus
>program of a sort. All it does is ample sweep the account OS for each member
>of the "TOSSIT" organization. Whenever mail is sent out from that person,
and
>it contains the name/phrase that equates to a member of "TOSSIT", it
"CC's"
>the mail to Prophet and to Mr. Morningstar (upon his request, after Prophet
>brought it up to the man).
So you took it upon yourself that because a virus or program or whatever,
Prophet is now privy to *EVERYTHING* that has been posted from the Dark
Stranger or any other member of the team? Fuck that and fuck you.
I've tried very damn hard to work with you, and defend you, in a rational
fashion in an attempt to resolve some of the recent tension. And I get
repaid like this? You, not Prophet, *YOU* felt threatened and *you*
decided to take this action.
Any insertion of a virus or program or code or whatever into a player's
computer, in game rules, is going to be a resisted test of some sort. And
don't you think that when a PC reviews past TOSSIT messages, it's possible
he would notice something odd, like a CC or BCC he didn't authorize? That
would be at least a Perception test (something magicians tend to be good at).
Is this bit of code in the PCs personal computers? Is it in the public
mail server? Does it sit somewhere in the backbone, fishing? If your
answer is on the personal computer, then Prophet would be privy to knowing
that tDS is also Major Boredom and Draig Dau. The people on the list may
know that, but no one on TK should have anything more than a vague inkling
(such as Kor). That result is totally unacceptable.
Not to mention this sort of thing is a huge breach of TK etiquette. These
sort of things are done very rarely because of the tremendous damage
potential. We used to have all sorts of arguments about it.
Frag, if you had told the group, most of us would have probably gone along
with you. We would have role-played discovering something odd about our
archived messages in about a week, maybe two. It might not have been until
the run was well over before the truth would have been discovered. That
would have been the ideal way of handling things. Unlike in RL, you can't
just slip a note to the GM that affects everything else that is going on;
but that is symptomatic of what you have been doing recently.
No, Keith, you for some reason felt threatened by in-character TK comments.
You decided to use your player knowledge in the game itself, cardinal rule
no-no number one.
>It's NOT a program, and thus does not as per the standard rules of SR VR2,
>take up any form of measurable memory, and it operates as a subshell of the
>message OS of the user. It's part of the account, NOT part of the user. I
>gave Bruce the ratings, for both the core program, and the Stealth option I
>included into it. (quite earthly, I promise)
NOT PER SR VR2!!! How in the fuck can we (our PCS) possibly counteract
that if we as players don't even know that something like that is
possible!? This is a classic example of not only what you have been doing
to this list but also a classic example of munchkinism. YOU came up with a
non-canon idea that may actually be sound and valid. BUT IT'S NOT PART OF
THE CANON! Not of SR2 nor of TK. THIS sort of thing is *exactly* what
Plot-D is for. THIS is why people, myself now included, are angry with
you. If something is part of the canon, we all know how to react; if it's
not, it's a total unknown quantity. We can't do anything about it.
>I made a dangerous assumption, one that leaves me to believing that TK is a
>form of a PBEM. According to the FAQ's it's not, yet according to the "play
>style" implemented by the various members, it is.
Here's a question for you. How long did you lurk, watching the lists?
When I first joined, something like 4 or 5 years ago, I lurked for about a
month. It was about three months before I took part in an adventure.
Before I announced my most recent return, I lurked for a bit over two
weeks, just so I could see who was still around and what sort of changes
had occurred. Then I spoke up.
>That's called Political Hashing to the rest of the world, last time I
checked.
Huh?
>Breather Space..............................................(for anyone
who is
>upset as well)
That would be me, but I don't need a breather. I'm pissed and highly
disappointed; but I'm also still rational.
>I therefore am simply going to take a break.
Maybe you should lurk during that break and watch how old-timers like
Brian, Brion, Paul, Mark and myself do things.
Do you folks remember THE Nexus? Most munchkinous character I will likely
ever see. But she (can't remember her name) worked very well within the
list. Her character could probably wipe the floor with anyone here. But
that wasn't how she was played; the player, if not the PC, always stayed
within the rules.
>Remember the "Old Boys Club" that I mentioned before? Well that club is
still
>around and it still tosses around the "you can't do that in my sandbox"
>argument (thanks for the words Justin & Frank, they fit wonderfully) all over
>the place.
I'm getting tired of people bashing the "Old Boy's Club." We look forward
to new people joining; it creates fresh blood and fresh stories. If it was
just the "Old Boy's Club" things would probably have gotten pretty stale by
now.
But the "Old Boy's" know how this list should operate. We've seen all
sorts of plots and characters. We've been a part of this list for years
now. Part of what we do, as "Old Boy's" is provide an example for newer
members, for answering questions, for remembering the past. The list
newbies and the old geezers are both equally valuable to the life of this
list.
>You are ALL right, "TK" is a "joint world" by so many. But it is
one where
>more radical ideas such as mine own are not accepted. Even if they exist
>within the boundaries of SR, that doesn't matter. Effectively,. that is what
>is referred to as a "House Rule".
Define boundaries. All sorts of munchkins play within the letter of the
rules, but violate their heart and spirit. Are you a munchkin, and if so,
do you have the guts to admit it?
We do have some house rules, which are largely spelled out in the FAQ. If
they aren't then are discussed on Plot-D.
Keith, if you were to join another gaming group, would you insist that you
got to play with all your old house rules, or would you adapt to the new
group's rules and make suggestions, when appropriate, regarding your own
house rules?
That's the situation here. This is one big SR group, with it's own set of
rules. You cannot go around insisting that your rules are better. I've
seen people get kicked out of gaming groups very quickly for doing that.
>Hell of House, the list is. Open Access via the Internet and with an
infinite
>potential of players.
Exactly. But to avoid nasty conflicts like this, there has got to be a
strong common reference point. Despite what others keep telling you, you
seem to resist accepting this fact.
>Concerning "TOSSIT"
>
>Prophet is relocating. He is simply leaving and not informing anyone
where he
>is. He will let the place he is going to know about tDS and Old One, and
that
>he doesn't trust them or their associates.
Fine. To use SR Companion's Enemy example, consider tDS to be an enemy of
Prophet. Highly skilled (5), highly motivated (4), but with little to no
current knowledge of where he is (1).
>He went home. The problem is, tDS resources and connections don't actually
>know where "home" is. They aren't likely to find out, for as I pointed out,
>they were part of one machine that is just a smaller part to a bigger
machine.
>No, he didn't run "to dad", because he doesn't know how and doesn't like his
>father to begin with. Yes, the story idea is an old one, but it's a working
>one. It's a Classic, for lack of better statement.
Fine. Still don't like it, but fine.
>Erik, he -IS- only 15. Binder -WAS- 9, he isn't anymore. There are TONS of
>statements about the effects of deep metaquests. He (Binder) has been there,
>and we here simply actuated his age to reflect this. It seemed a bit more
>"fancifully realistic", if you catch my drift.
None of which, unless I'm mistaken, are canon. But I'm willing to accept it.
Here, I think, is the biggest problem, and you could have avoided it by
retaining some secrets, or simply using more canon-like language. Did
people need to know the ages? In *your* game, they may well be 15 and 9.
But that is terribly strange within SR canon. It's not something that the
list *needed* to know; all our characters have traits and elements that the
list doesn't need to know for one reason or another. Most of these things
relate to house rules. But we all make sacrifices for our characters so
that they will fit within the house that TK has built. Your PCs would have
worked fine within TK without those revelations. And we wouldn't be in
this Mongolian cluster fuck right now if you had.
Example. Paul has said that in most games, Lynch wouldn't be such a major
ass-kicker and that many of our RL PCs could kick his ass eight ways to
Sunday. But we sacrifice something of our own characters power and grant
that to Lynch for the sake of TK and the rest of the list.
In the game I was originally in, it got to the point that tDS had military
grade power armor. I'm not even going to think of bringing that into the
game I'm trying to join; frag, he won't even get to keep all his foci. But
I'm sacrificing so that I will fit into the new group's world.
>I promise I will post any resounding ideas that I think you will perceive as
>"Ideas" in the first place. They aren't "ideas" to any of the
gamers
here, so
>it may take me some time to learn to separate them. But I promise, I will
>try.
That's all anyone has been asking.
>I would just like everyone else to learn to try a bit as well. So many
>chiefs, not nearly enough Indians...and I'm in Indiana (ick).
As someone else said, we are all chiefs. We are all chiefs that sit on the
same council and while we argue and fight sometimes, we all have the best
interests of the tribe in mind.
Damn. Not the best way to start of the business day.
Erik J.
