| From: | "Paul J. Adam" <plotd@********.DEMON.CO.UK> |
|---|---|
| Subject: | Re: Another Dead Judge |
| Date: | Sat, 1 Aug 1998 16:46:14 +0100 |
Jameson <erikj@****.COM> writes
>I hate to do this to you Paul (and it might not sound like it, but really,
>nothing personal), but your/Mitchell's world view is utterly contrary to
>the world of Shadowrun, as presented by FASA. According to the Corporate
>Shadowfiles, the Megas don't hardly pay any taxes.
Corporate Shadowfiles, pages 57 to 61. The megas _do_ pay taxes, and
there _have_ been shooting incidents in the past over the issue, and the
megacorps (in the case mentioned, Aztechnology) backed down after taking
losses.
Cybertechnology, Page 88, for FASA's opinion of what national militaries
think of megacorporations.
Sorry, Erik, Mitchell might not be wholly right, but he's not entirely
wrong either.
>Damien Knight was able
>to blackmail the UCAS VP for control of her shares of Ares. Ares was more
>than a 10% presence in the CZ; without Ares the UCAS would have been
>screwed.
Well, Erik, there FASA makes a major divergence from reality and their
own previous material. Ares doesn't have the troops. The UCAS does.
Ares has a "light regiment", quoted as two battalions or about 1,000
troops: look at a map and work out the forces needed to hold the
Containment Zone. Did Ares have any troops _not_ tied up walking the
Wall, in this revised version of history?
After all - towers standing 30-100 yards apart along the CZ perimeter,
two guards per tower, manned around the clock, eight hour shifts, work
out the numbers required. The CZ has a _forty mile_ perimeter - that
gives you at least four thousand troops required just to man the
watchtowers, and definitely not counting the forces needed to keep them
fed and supplied.
On top of that you have the counterforce teams, probably battalion
strength or less (scratch teams from assorted SF units, by FASA's
description), and their support units (including a lot of intel types
who provide them with targets)
Then there's the carrier and escorts in Lake Michigan, plus assorted
Coast Guard: at least a thousand swabbies on a CVS or LPH and two FFGs,
(assuming Smartship works - over three thousand by today's numbers) plus
however many Coasties and other Navy personnel are deployed in and the
small craft (and then of course you need the logistics and maintenance
support to keep them operational too)
And the reinforcements and ready reserve deployed around Chicago,
amounting to an additional two battalions of regulars and 300 ING
attachments... plus FASA offer GMs the option of placing a MEU on the
Wolverine as well.
This comes to around ten thousand combatants, and that's being very
conservative.
Now, Ares was able to build up and sustain forces equal to even a tenth
of that grouping? I suggest you run a few numbers to work out just what
it would cost Ares to do that...
It's entirely credible that some of the tower guards were backed up by
Knight-Errant or other troops, and that Ares would pick up some load on
the logistics side. But Ares simply doesn't have the combat manpower:
recall it has an entire world to look after.
>You cannot
>say with *any* FASA justification that the UCAS, or really any other
>government, can do to the corps what Mitchell claims it could do.
Erik - This is an old and well-worn argument, and one that's been gone
over several times now and in the past. You may find that not everyone
shares your views on the primacy of megacorporations.
As a single for-instance, I'm moderately versed in underwater weapons
development and use, and there's simply no way any corporation - "mega"
or not - could field any effective blue-water ASW force, especially
given their need for global coverage. You can buy a few ships and
weapons, but the training required is the key and it is _expensive_.
Some major nations - those able to effectively operate naval forces
including SSNs, and especially if you can add carriers to the mix - are
able to shut down all operations of a given (or of several) megacorp
within their territory. That's a simple military fact. The corporation
is tied to a handful of easily-isolated sites, unable to reinforce or
resupply.
The Big Eight, combined, have the economic muscle to crush any nation
that makes an unprovoked assault on a corporation. But, no
megacorporation can engage in open conflict with a major nation alone
and win: and megacorps have a vested interest in _not_ weakening or
threatening their customers.
Mitchell's position is deliberately (by me) extreme, but not
unreasonable.
>And the british corps (which I can't name because I don't have the books
>with me) are extraterritorial nations, they just aren't the Big 8.
No Shiawase Decision in Britain, Erik.
Only three of the megas have any significant presence in Britain. And
"significant" is relative - Aztechnology UK has only 20,000 employees,
for instance.
London Sourcebook - _all_ corporations operating in Britain must
register with and supply information to the Lord Protector. The
remainder _are_ British. There's no mention of extraterritoriality in
the London Sourcebook that I recall, and politically it's a _very_
unlikely move. Does the name Yvonne Fletcher ring any bells?
>So it's fine that Mitchell is a brain-washed soldier spouting the
>government line, but it just ain't true what he's saying and all your
>real-world examples don't change that fact.
You see it your way, Erik, I'll see it mine. Isn't going to matter one
way or another, there's no plans for a nation-versus-megacorp war coming
from me.
>As an aside, I'm also rather shocked towards Mitchell's extremely callous
>comments regarding the Marketeer being a cripple.
Tough. Mitchell is massively pissed off at the Marketeer. Debating corps
versus nations, fine, no problem. Cheap shots at the men who died beside
Mitchell fighting bugs, that's a _very_ low blow. So the Marketeer's a
cripple? So what? That give him some special dispensation?
Remember, just days before the Marketeer's little dig, Mitchell lost
seven of the eight soldiers he took into the Padfield hive.
>It's a major wonder
>someone like that would ever have been able to play the political game well
>enough to get beyond Lieutenant, let alone not get fragged by a fellow
>soldier.
You stand up for your troops, Erik. Especially against whining SINless
civilians sniping from the sidelines.
"Hey, all those friends you fought with, lots of whom are now dead? I
say they were wasting their time and I could have done way better if I'd
been in charge, and they're dead anyway so deal with it..."
This is _not_ the way to make a soldier happy, especially since the
Marketeer is now being so evasive about what was done wrong and how he'd
have done better.
--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...
Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
